GeneticWeapon
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Natecannon
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kaotao
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Well compared to anything out right now for the pc it is. So your point??? :roll:
If you had been thinking about the subject of this thread when you initially read my first post, you hopefully wouldn't have responded to it the way you did. It's close, but apparently, not close enough to DX10 for Crysis. Also, if you compare games that are out for both 360 and PC (Oblivion, Prey), graphically, highend PCs come out on top. I could have replyed in a friendlier manner, but you didn't exactly make it easy for me.
- Jan 1, 2004
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In case anyone cares, here is a Link to a Tom's forums thread where this pulled Anandtech article was discussed over 1 year ago. It contains the whole text from the article.
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=83872&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=xenos&start=0
Note some quotes that were in that article that really slammed the next gen consoles cpu power:
"The most ironic bit of it all is that according to developers, if either manufacturer had decided to use an Athlon 64 or a Pentium D in their next-gen console, they would be significantly ahead of the competition in terms of CPU performance."
"We already know that's not the case as game developers have already told us that the Xenon CPU isn't even in the same realm of performance as the Pentium 4 or Athlon 64. "
"The Cell processor is no different; given that its PPE is identical to one of the PowerPC cores in Xenon, it must derive its floating point performance superiority from its array of SPEs. So what's the issue with 218 GFLOPs number (2 TFLOPs for the whole system)? Well, from what we've heard, game developers are finding that they can't use the SPEs for a lot of tasks. So in the end, it doesn't matter what peak theoretical performance of Cell's SPE array is, if those SPEs aren't being used all the time."
"Right now, from what we’ve heard, the real-world performance of the Xenon CPU is about twice that of the 733MHz processor in the first Xbox. Considering that this CPU is supposed to power the Xbox 360 for the next 4 - 5 years, it’s nothing short of disappointing. To put it in perspective, floating point multiplies are apparently 1/3 as fast on Xenon as on a Pentium 4.
The reason for the poor performance? The very narrow 2-issue in-order core also happens to be very deeply pipelined, apparently with a branch predictor that’s not the best in the business. In the end, you get what you pay for, and with such a small core, it’s no surprise that performance isn’t anywhere near the Athlon 64 or Pentium 4 class.
The Cell processor doesn’t get off the hook just because it only uses a single one of these horribly slow cores; the SPE array ends up being fairly useless in the majority of situations, making it little more than a waste of die space. "
"Although both manufacturers royally screwed up their CPUs, all developers have agreed that they are quite pleased with the GPU power of the next-generation consoles. "
"Just because these CPUs and GPUs are in a console doesn't mean that we should throw away years of knowledge from the PC industry - performance doesn't come out of thin air, and peak performance is almost never achieved. Clever marketing however, will always try to fool the consumer."
"And that's what we have here today, with the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. Both consoles are marketed to be much more powerful than they actually are, and from talking to numerous game developers it seems that the real world performance of these platforms isn't anywhere near what it was supposed to be. "
Anyway, this was just in response to someone who said that the PS3 cell specs meet the Crysis requirements. Going by this article it would seem the A64 3000+ minimum cpu spec is well above the power of the PS3 cell processor. (if we just want to talk specs and not consider other factors)
http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=83872&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=xenos&start=0
Note some quotes that were in that article that really slammed the next gen consoles cpu power:
"The most ironic bit of it all is that according to developers, if either manufacturer had decided to use an Athlon 64 or a Pentium D in their next-gen console, they would be significantly ahead of the competition in terms of CPU performance."
"We already know that's not the case as game developers have already told us that the Xenon CPU isn't even in the same realm of performance as the Pentium 4 or Athlon 64. "
"The Cell processor is no different; given that its PPE is identical to one of the PowerPC cores in Xenon, it must derive its floating point performance superiority from its array of SPEs. So what's the issue with 218 GFLOPs number (2 TFLOPs for the whole system)? Well, from what we've heard, game developers are finding that they can't use the SPEs for a lot of tasks. So in the end, it doesn't matter what peak theoretical performance of Cell's SPE array is, if those SPEs aren't being used all the time."
"Right now, from what we’ve heard, the real-world performance of the Xenon CPU is about twice that of the 733MHz processor in the first Xbox. Considering that this CPU is supposed to power the Xbox 360 for the next 4 - 5 years, it’s nothing short of disappointing. To put it in perspective, floating point multiplies are apparently 1/3 as fast on Xenon as on a Pentium 4.
The reason for the poor performance? The very narrow 2-issue in-order core also happens to be very deeply pipelined, apparently with a branch predictor that’s not the best in the business. In the end, you get what you pay for, and with such a small core, it’s no surprise that performance isn’t anywhere near the Athlon 64 or Pentium 4 class.
The Cell processor doesn’t get off the hook just because it only uses a single one of these horribly slow cores; the SPE array ends up being fairly useless in the majority of situations, making it little more than a waste of die space. "
"Although both manufacturers royally screwed up their CPUs, all developers have agreed that they are quite pleased with the GPU power of the next-generation consoles. "
"Just because these CPUs and GPUs are in a console doesn't mean that we should throw away years of knowledge from the PC industry - performance doesn't come out of thin air, and peak performance is almost never achieved. Clever marketing however, will always try to fool the consumer."
"And that's what we have here today, with the Xbox 360 and PlayStation 3. Both consoles are marketed to be much more powerful than they actually are, and from talking to numerous game developers it seems that the real world performance of these platforms isn't anywhere near what it was supposed to be. "
Anyway, this was just in response to someone who said that the PS3 cell specs meet the Crysis requirements. Going by this article it would seem the A64 3000+ minimum cpu spec is well above the power of the PS3 cell processor. (if we just want to talk specs and not consider other factors)
Natecannon
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Hate to say it, but the U3 you are looking at in screenshots is done in DX9. At the time of showing all current DX10 screens are on DX9 with emulation (that's what makes the frames run so crappy... don't believe me, look at how crysis fps drops in videos and tell me how the hell that's happening on a crossfire behemoth of a setup).
BTW U3 is DX9 engine!
"Unreal Engine 3 is a complete game development framework for next-generation consoles and DirectX9-equipped PC's, providing the vast array of core technologies, content creation tools, and support infrastructure required by top game developers." - Taken from the Unreal Technology page
Natecannon
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MidnightDreamer
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As a PS3 fanboy I can say that yes... I am somewhat disapointed in these next gen consoles. I expected these new platforms to be a giant leap ahead of our current generation consoles. I'm just glad that I own a PC and am able to pull out the best of both worlds.
Either way, we should keep in mind that Crysis, this "great game", was really developed for use on PC hardware. Games that are exclusively designed and implemented for a specific console tend to really shine. These games really show and push the potential of these systems and can't be easily dismissed.
I'm sure if a developer put thier time into it, it would be a small task to design a game as visually stunning as Crysis to be implemented on the PS3.
I honestly agree however that Sony royally screwed up thier PS3. I'm disapointed in them for coming out with a console so late. I hate that they're using the PS3 as a spearhead to thier plans of introduing BluRay as the next gen media format. There are a dozen other areas where I have complaints about how Sony is managing the PS3. But all in all as long as they keep releasing great titles for this console then it will have justified my $700 investment into this system.
Power isn't everything. As long as the gaming is good, then the platform just becomes secondary. How else would platforms like DS, and Gamecube stay in the market for so long...
ryokinshin
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- Mar 19, 2006
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the processor isnt a problem, its mainly the gfx card, dx10 runs the cards more efficiently so more power for ur money and has more and improved features, of course they woulod scale it for consoles as well, but dx10 ftw
u can nvr compare consoles to pcs interms of technology, not when gfx cards and processors get updates every 6 months vs the around 5 years for a new consoles release
u can nvr compare consoles to pcs interms of technology, not when gfx cards and processors get updates every 6 months vs the around 5 years for a new consoles release
borandi
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- Jan 7, 2006
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I always keep my consoles for the next Final Fantasy and SquareEnix title. I have the PS2 for that, the Gamecube for multiplayer fun (nothing like 4 mates sitting round a TV with Super Mario Kart / Super Smash Brothers Melee and a beer or two) and I'll probably be getting the Wii for the experience (and the PS3 for some Final Fantasy goodness). Then there is the Nintendo DS for travel. Any games I buy, usually comes from sales (2 for 25 quid etc), ebay, or Amazon sellers. My last 4 gamecube games cost less than 10 quid total. Brand new 2-3 years ago, over 100 pounds.
I have the PC for other games, mainly FPS, and clan matches etc. I spend more on my PC than my console, but play on both for different reasons. I hardly ever buy consoles brand new (I got my Dreamcast the week they stopped making them, and a week before their price rose) - the last thing I bought new was for my PC - a Raptor 150GB.
Different tastes, different styles. I doubt I'll get crysis off the bat (I havent even got COD2 yet), but maybe down the line I will. The last game I got brand new was Prey, cos the demo rocked. The next game I'll get new is probably Quake Wars: ET, as the clan I'm in are migrating to it, from BF2 - heck I havent even got BF2:SF.
I have the PC for other games, mainly FPS, and clan matches etc. I spend more on my PC than my console, but play on both for different reasons. I hardly ever buy consoles brand new (I got my Dreamcast the week they stopped making them, and a week before their price rose) - the last thing I bought new was for my PC - a Raptor 150GB.
Different tastes, different styles. I doubt I'll get crysis off the bat (I havent even got COD2 yet), but maybe down the line I will. The last game I got brand new was Prey, cos the demo rocked. The next game I'll get new is probably Quake Wars: ET, as the clan I'm in are migrating to it, from BF2 - heck I havent even got BF2:SF.
kaotao
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- Apr 26, 2006
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Well compared to anything out right now for the pc it is. So your point??? :roll:
If you had been thinking about the subject of this thread when you initially read my first post, you hopefully wouldn't have responded to it the way you did. It's close, but apparently, not close enough to DX10 for Crysis. Also, if you compare games that are out for both 360 and PC (Oblivion, Prey), graphically, highend PCs come out on top. I could have replyed in a friendlier manner, but you didn't exactly make it easy for me.
Stop over analyzing everything :roll: I did read your post and you stated how it was funny how everyone was saying that the 360 would be the closest thing to DX10 out there, well guess what? currently that is correct until DX10 Cards arrive for the PC! Like I told you earlier the 360 can do some DX10 features, not full DX10 but some. Can any PC right now with a current DX9 card do any DX10 features at all? NO! so for the time being it is indeed the closest thing to DX10 that we have.
And dude as for Oblivion and Prey I never once stated that they looked better on the 360 and you will not find me arguing the fact that any game so far made for both looks better on a High end PC. In case you didnt notice I did mention that I also have a high end PC and when it comes to Prey and Oblivion you damn well better believe I play them on my PC.
If you really want to see the 360 shine you have to play a game that was made exclusivly for its hardware such as Kameo, Fight Night ETC.
Obviously you read my post, you just failed to put my post and the topic of this thread together. Again, my point is that for something that was hailed as the closest thing to DX10, I found it funny that (unfortunately) Crytek feels it's too weak to handle it's highly anticipated first game for DX10, NOT that it didn't emulate it in any way. Fight Night does look awesome though, and if I were to buy a console, I most likely buy a 360. 8)
vic20
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- Jul 11, 2006
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Whats new about this??
Many PC games are too much for consoles. Thats why they develop a technologically different, but similar themed game and release it at the same time or later for console play. (Metal of Honor: Frontline)
Now what I hate, is when they make a console game and port it to PC to save money. Such as Medal of Honor: Pacific Assault and Brotherhood of Arms.
I didn't buy a PC to have linear maps, checkpoints and low quality textures and models
Many PC games are too much for consoles. Thats why they develop a technologically different, but similar themed game and release it at the same time or later for console play. (Metal of Honor: Frontline)
Now what I hate, is when they make a console game and port it to PC to save money. Such as Medal of Honor: Pacific Assault and Brotherhood of Arms.
I didn't buy a PC to have linear maps, checkpoints and low quality textures and models
kaotao
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- Apr 26, 2006
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I found this first link this morning, that says ATI announced that DX10 is possible on a 360 through and update, so running Crysis would be possible.
http://www.news4gamers.com/xbox360/News-6925.aspx
Then I found another link that says otherwise.
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3153097
Interesting, or old news?
http://www.news4gamers.com/xbox360/News-6925.aspx
Then I found another link that says otherwise.
http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3153097
Interesting, or old news?
FlowerPower
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- Mar 26, 2006
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It really is no surprise. PCs surpass consoles. It takes a lot of time to work on a console and by time it comes out, the hardware is outdated. You can't even upgrade a console.
Another thing, is why do Sony and Microsoft try and make "mini PCs" ? Who would spend $600 on a danm console.
Well anyways, Crysis IMO isn't going to do too well because of the demand in hardware. There isn't gonna be too many ppl willing to shell out money for a brand new pc system and OS to run a game. Game companies making games like that are just shooting themselves in the head.
Another thing, is why do Sony and Microsoft try and make "mini PCs" ? Who would spend $600 on a danm console.
Well anyways, Crysis IMO isn't going to do too well because of the demand in hardware. There isn't gonna be too many ppl willing to shell out money for a brand new pc system and OS to run a game. Game companies making games like that are just shooting themselves in the head.
Yeah there are "mature" gamers playing pc games like EverCrack, WoW, and screaming "Boom...Headshot"....sittin' there shivering drinking Bawls and ordering pizza and refusing to get up to piss. Yep it's true they are dedicated to playing pc games. When does a pc gamer have the time to even build a pc or read technical articles on pc hardware. This goddamn snootiness on the part of pc gamers is rediculous, because you would be building a workstation to create some artistic sh!t rather than a gaming-rig if you had any maturity. Perhaps you might even volunteer to work at a soup kitchen. The fact that I still play games at 26yrs is bewildering enough, why in the hell would I want to open up a big ass manual just to learn how to play a pc game. I don't have the time for that. I would rather play a quick console game and read some long ass technical articles on tomshardware and get my CCNA, GIAC, and MCSE certs. I guess you can call me lazy because I like sitting on the couch with simplified controls and a big screen. But I must thank you hardcore PC gamers because you all are the ones driving down the prices on video cards, 19" LCD's, Laser Mice, and Processors. You've made hardware so cheap I can afford to buy a dual-NIC shuttle pc to build my own hardware firewall with Astaro Linux.
One last thing I must say is that PC gaming is cool and I love me some CS:Source from time to time...but ignoring your friends and never meeting new people is not...so it ain't healthy or sane to advocate "Hardcore" gaming. But to each his own, I suppose.
One last thing I must say is that PC gaming is cool and I love me some CS:Source from time to time...but ignoring your friends and never meeting new people is not...so it ain't healthy or sane to advocate "Hardcore" gaming. But to each his own, I suppose.
kaotao
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- Apr 26, 2006
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I'm not trying to say one's better than the other. I do prefer PCs to consoles for various reasons. I don't consider myself hardcore, it's more of a hobby for me. Building, upgrading, troubleshooting, etc.. a PC is fun to me. The fact that I'm not stuck with my current specs, or in-game settings, and can upgrade when I want is what's appealing.
Synergy6
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- Dec 8, 2005
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Yes, because playing videogames on a console
* makes you a more eloquent speaker and refined eater.
* makes you *more* informed about PC technical issues.
* makes you mature because you use CAD more.
* makes you help out at charity events more.
* means your life is easier, as finding a disk to put in your console is *far* easier than double-clicking an icon.
* means you don't have to learn "CCNA, GIAC, and MCSE" to double-click an icon.
* means you save money by paying $50+ PER GAME.
* means you automatically meet new people, from your "couch"
* makes you healthier on your "couch"
:roll:
Synergy6
* makes you a more eloquent speaker and refined eater.
* makes you *more* informed about PC technical issues.
* makes you mature because you use CAD more.
* makes you help out at charity events more.
* means your life is easier, as finding a disk to put in your console is *far* easier than double-clicking an icon.
* means you don't have to learn "CCNA, GIAC, and MCSE" to double-click an icon.
* means you save money by paying $50+ PER GAME.
* means you automatically meet new people, from your "couch"
* makes you healthier on your "couch"
:roll:
Synergy6
kaotao
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- Apr 26, 2006
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Yeah, at 26 you sure seem to have it all figured out. Yes, many of us enjoy reading "long ass technical articles". If it's something that interests you, you read up on it. It's called expanding your knowledge...something you'll never get sitting on your couch with both hands on your stick. Instead of instantly attacking the majority of the people who post here (without knowing WTF you're talking about), next time you might want to use your big boy voice and say something productive.
Natecannon
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- Aug 19, 2006
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He acts like we are all children with no lives outside of our computers. HA!
I'm glad he feels like a big boy at age 26... aslong as I'm still a kid... and not a grumpy "old man" like he is I'm fine. Lemme just go grab some Red Bull and Pizza so I can tweak out while looking at Tweakguides.com.
Yay for the moron!
I'm glad he feels like a big boy at age 26... aslong as I'm still a kid... and not a grumpy "old man" like he is I'm fine. Lemme just go grab some Red Bull and Pizza so I can tweak out while looking at Tweakguides.com.
Yay for the moron!
Natecannon
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I like both... I enjoy forums because It's a good way to learn and a good way to make "friends" haha. I don't neglect any of my outside past times... hockey season is coming up and I'll be damned if I let this shattered knee keep me off the ice another season! But, I'm excited about getting to game on a good rig in a few days.
Natecannon
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- Aug 19, 2006
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Maybe the Canucks will do better this year, now that they got rid of Bertuzzi and Crawford. I'm hoping so...
Natecannon
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Hey, don't bag on Auld... he was a backup that ended up playing out the season. That's alot of pressure.
But we're way off topic 😛
But we're way off topic 😛
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