"Core 2 Duo -- The Embarrassing Secrets"?

[turpit]

My pseudoscience detector went off the chart.

Be careful where you stick that thing

 

[dvmoo7]

Although Core 2 Duo has been impressive since its introduction last year, a veil of secrecy has remained in place which has prevented a true understanding of the chip's capabilities. This has been reminiscent of The Wizard Of Oz with analysts and enthusiasts insisting we ignore what's behind the curtain. However, we can now see that some of C2D's prowess is just as imaginary as the giant flaming wizard.

The two things that Intel would rather you not know about Core 2 Duo are that it has been tweaked for benchmarks rather than for real code, and that at 2.93 Ghz it is exceeding its thermal limits on the 65nm process. I'm sure both of these things will come as a surprise to many but the evidence is at Tom's Hardware Guide, Xbitlabs, and Anandtech. But, although the information is very clear, no one has previously called any attention to it. Core 2 Duo roughly doubles the SSE performance of K8, Core Duo, and P4D. This is no minor accomplishment and Intel deserves every bit of credit for this. For SSE intensive applications, C2D is a grand slam home run. However, the great majority of consumer applications are more dependent on integer performance than floating point performance and this is where the smoke and mirrors have been in full force. There is no doubt that Core 2 Duo is faster than K8 at the same clock. The problem has been in finding out how much faster. Estimates have ranged from 5% to 40% faster. Unfortunately, most of the hardware review sites have shown no desire to narrow this range.

read the rest:
http://scientiasblog.blogspot.com/
© Scientia from AMDZone, April 15 2007

Comments?

This is like saying .. Big deal, so what if your car post a faster time on the 1/4 mile, post a better time on the track, and has been measured to brake in shorter distants, and has be measured to run cooler waste less gas than my CAR. That's all smoke and mirrors because your car was designed to do better at those things. But, my car is still better in real world "CAR" applications. So there.

 

[r0ck]

What the dumbass is "real code" or the "majority of consumer apps"?

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

I've read many of his comments.. MU-Engineer as well.. they're both VERY biased towards AMD (on AMD Zone comments).

Crazy biased. I dunno how they can maintain their composure here.. lol

 

[Viperabyss]

I've read many of his comments.. MU-Engineer as well.. they're both VERY biased towards AMD (on AMD Zone comments).

Crazy biased. I dunno how they can maintain their composure here.. lol

really?
i thought MU-engineer is just slightly to AMD...

 

[dasickninja]

Quite the debunking going on here. I wonder if Scientia will show up to defend his position.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

I've read many of his comments.. MU-Engineer as well.. they're both VERY biased towards AMD (on AMD Zone comments).

Crazy biased. I dunno how they can maintain their composure here.. lol

really?
i thought MU-engineer is just slightly to AMD...

As did I.. till I read his posts on AMD Zone.

Check it.. in response to this comment:

Keep in mind that this high performance Intel
stuff only exists because of AMD.

MU_Engineer writes: "That sounds about right."

 

[r0ck]

Yes, because insisting that competition is good for us is "VERY biased" :roll:

 

[turpit]

I've read many of his comments.. MU-Engineer as well.. they're both VERY biased towards AMD (on AMD Zone comments).

Crazy biased. I dunno how they can maintain their composure here.. lol

really?
i thought MU-engineer is just slightly to AMD...

As did I.. till I read his posts on AMD Zone.

Check it.. in response to this comment:

Keep in mind that this high performance Intel
stuff only exists because of AMD.

MU_Engineer writes: "That sounds about right."

Well thats not nessasarily a biased viewpoint. Intel was losing market share to AMD. AMD had the better product. If Intel didnt produce a better product, they would have continued losing market share. So competition (i.e. AMD) drove Intel to produce a better product.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

Yes, because insisting that competition is good for us is "VERY biased" :roll:

Go read his comments... all pro-AMD. Always criticizing Core 2 Duo and always praising the so called superior AMD motherboards.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

I've read many of his comments.. MU-Engineer as well.. they're both VERY biased towards AMD (on AMD Zone comments).

Crazy biased. I dunno how they can maintain their composure here.. lol

really?
i thought MU-engineer is just slightly to AMD...

As did I.. till I read his posts on AMD Zone.

Check it.. in response to this comment:

Keep in mind that this high performance Intel
stuff only exists because of AMD.

MU_Engineer writes: "That sounds about right."

Well thats not nessasarily a biased viewpoint. Intel was losing market share to AMD. AMD had the better product. If Intel didnt produce a better product, they would have continued losing market share. So competition (i.e. AMD) drove Intel to produce a better product.

No not biased would be claiming it both ways.. something I would do. I'd answer back.. correct but also note that AMD's high performance parts also would not exist if it weren't for AMD needing the extra performance to maintain it's business and compete with Intel.

 

[turpit]

I've read many of his comments.. MU-Engineer as well.. they're both VERY biased towards AMD (on AMD Zone comments).

Crazy biased. I dunno how they can maintain their composure here.. lol

really?
i thought MU-engineer is just slightly to AMD...

As did I.. till I read his posts on AMD Zone.

Check it.. in response to this comment:

Keep in mind that this high performance Intel
stuff only exists because of AMD.

MU_Engineer writes: "That sounds about right."

Well thats not nessasarily a biased viewpoint. Intel was losing market share to AMD. AMD had the better product. If Intel didnt produce a better product, they would have continued losing market share. So competition (i.e. AMD) drove Intel to produce a better product.

No not biased would be claiming it both ways.. something I would do. I'd answer back.. correct but also note that AMD's high performance parts also would not exist if it weren't for AMD needing the extra performance to maintain it's business and compete with Intel.

Thats what competition is. Multiple parties vying for supremecy. Its applies equally to the parties involved. While an individual may or may not be biased, saying the competition drove the perfromance curve up isnt a evidence of a bias.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

Yes, because insisting that competition is good for us is "VERY biased" :roll:

Go read his comments... all pro-AMD. Always criticizing Core 2 Duo and always praising the so called superior AMD motherboards.

While I agree that MU is squarely in the AMD camp, I would, myself, characterize his posting habits as more pulling for the underdog in the fight and supporting a brand because he values competition -- there is a difference between someone who prefers a brand (for various reasons) and rabid fanatic. Sure his opinions are mostly pro-AMD, but he is a respectful poster, he also listens and will capitulate when he is shown the data... I like the guy myself.

Jack

I never said he was a fanatic. I said that he was very much pro-AMD. Biased towards AMD.

Moreso then he appears on here that's for sure.

 

[dasickninja]

As crazy as I can be, the one thing that I would accuse MU_Engineer of is fanboyism. Can he be biased? Ye, everyone has a bias towards something. That's what makes us human, the tendency to lean one way or another. But to do what you are saying is on a entirely different level. Apologize. Now.
Just some advice.
Ninja

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

As crazy as I can be, the one thing that I would accuse MU_Engineer of is fanboyism. Can he be biased? Ye, everyone has a bias towards something. That's what makes us human, the tendency to lean one way or another. But to do what you are saying is on a entirely different level. Apologize. Now.
Just some advice.
Ninja

I accused him of being biased... not a pure fanboy (nowhere did I compare him to the likes of BaronMatrix, 9inch etc).. therefore my analogy was correct and no apology is to be given.

On these boards he appears as though he has a slight preference (though he never admits it) but over there he is clearly pro-AMD.

 

[dasickninja]

To which I reply, so?

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

To be honest Intel is the worsed company of the two when it comes to ethical conduct. So Intel has technically "screwed up" more often then AMD.

 

[turpit]

As crazy as I can be, the one thing that I would accuse MU_Engineer of is fanboyism. Can he be biased? Ye, everyone has a bias towards something. That's what makes us human, the tendency to lean one way or another. But to do what you are saying is on a entirely different level. Apologize. Now.
Just some advice.
Ninja

I accused him of being biased... not a pure fanboy (nowhere did I compare him to the likes of BaronMatrix, 9inch etc).. therefore my analogy was correct and no apology is to be given.

On these boards he appears as though he has a slight preference (though he never admits it) but over there he is clearly pro-AMD.

Excellent point

 

[turpit]

What is tough about taking sides is the fine line of sympathizing with your chosen "HERO"(for lack of a better word). I always have to remind myself that sympathizing with AMD is bad, they screwed up as much as Intel screwed them. Which is why my stance is Put up or shut up from them.

Its just not easy to Take the hits and know the other guys fouls and keep it real. Real is show us the goods, Walk the walk. stop yer baby azz whining and do what our purchases pay you to do. Compete.

I getcha Vern. And thats my point, that its been hurting AMD, wasting resouces crying foul, while the game is still afoot.

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

To be honest Intel is the worsed company of the two when it comes to ethical conduct. So Intel has technically "screwed up" more often then AMD.

And you and I can see how petty an argument like that is because it all boils down to market share and superior tech. And intel has also show you dont need one for the other ,as AMD has shown the same in reverse. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Unethical is not bad,illegal is bad. Unethical is also the IDF pamphlets. AMD has its history of unethical too. They just havent traversed the same path of illegalities yet.Just going on a limb and all out pure speculation i'd be able to claim and stand by this claim when I say that I'm 100% certain that both Intel and AMD have done illegal things. It's sorta the nature of the corporate world.

But on another note un-ethical conduct is not technically illegal but should still be frowned upon. I guess it all comes down to a persons own Morals.

 

[turpit]

What is tough about taking sides is the fine line of sympathizing with your chosen "HERO"(for lack of a better word). I always have to remind myself that sympathizing with AMD is bad, they screwed up as much as Intel screwed them. Which is why my stance is Put up or shut up from them.

Its just not easy to Take the hits and know the other guys fouls and keep it real. Real is show us the goods, Walk the walk. stop yer baby azz whining and do what our purchases pay you to do. Compete.

I getcha Vern. And thats my point, that its been hurting AMD, wasting resouces crying foul, while the game is still afoot.

The core of us have been saying that for a while almost a year now, myself bieng the most vocal.


:lol: :lol: :lol:

Thus the "I getcha". Except on the occasions which you dive a bit too deeply into the AMD bashing well.

The horde still hasnt figured out that being honestly critical is not the same as being hostile.

 

[turpit]

To be honest Intel is the worsed company of the two when it comes to ethical conduct. So Intel has technically "screwed up" more often then AMD.

And you and I can see how petty an argument like that is because it all boils down to market share and superior tech. And intel has also show you dont need one for the other ,as AMD has shown the same in reverse. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Unethical is not bad,illegal is bad. Unethical is also the IDF pamphlets. AMD has its history of unethical too. They just havent traversed the same path of illegalities yet.Just going on a limb and all out pure speculation i'd be able to claim and stand by this claim when I say that I'm 100% certain that both Intel and AMD have done illegal things. It's sorta the nature of the corporate world.

But on another note un-ethical conduct is not technically illegal but should still be frowned upon. I guess it all comes down to a persons own Morals.

Please god....NOOOOOOO

[/closes eyes, clicks heels together, chants "please dont let this deteriorate into another corporate morality thread"]

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

To be honest Intel is the worsed company of the two when it comes to ethical conduct. So Intel has technically "screwed up" more often then AMD.

And you and I can see how petty an argument like that is because it all boils down to market share and superior tech. And intel has also show you dont need one for the other ,as AMD has shown the same in reverse. :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Unethical is not bad,illegal is bad. Unethical is also the IDF pamphlets. AMD has its history of unethical too. They just havent traversed the same path of illegalities yet.Just going on a limb and all out pure speculation i'd be able to claim and stand by this claim when I say that I'm 100% certain that both Intel and AMD have done illegal things. It's sorta the nature of the corporate world.

But on another note un-ethical conduct is not technically illegal but should still be frowned upon. I guess it all comes down to a persons own Morals.

Please god....NOOOOOOO

[/closes eyes, clicks heels together, chants "please dont let this deteriorate into another corporate morality thread"]

Lol it won't. Never does when I say something because I'm an a$$h0le

Pretty much the reason why I made the statement was to highlight my centrist beliefs in the whole AMD vs. Intel debate. I don't care much for either company, I care about the highest performing products. One company, in my eyes, can club 1,000 baby seals and I'd still remain indifferent.

My comment was mainly to highlight that although morally AMD does stand on higher ground IMHO, it still won't stop me from enjoying the higher performing product and doesn't even come into play during my decision making process..

 

[ElMoIsEviL]

that although morally AMD does stand on higher ground

I am an amd user and spectator and i disagree with this. Morally they have shamed themselves on various other levels, given a chance the ftc would nab them for the same activities,

They've mainly toyed with their investors money and have been very Liberal in the way they've done so.

They've also lied and been hypocritical regarding their benchmarking practices (Spec comes to mind).

Is that what you mean?

 

[turpit]

Lol it won't. Never does when I say something because I'm an a$$h0le

Pretty much the reason why I made the statement was to highlight my centrist beliefs in the whole AMD vs. Intel debate. I don't care much for either company, I care about the highest performing products. One company, in my eyes, can club 1,000 baby seals and I'd still remain indifferent.

My comment was mainly to highlight that although morally AMD does stand on higher ground IMHO, it still won't stop me from enjoying the higher performing product and doesn't even come into play during my decision making process..

ahh dudh diih buhh.....dont say that man! Before you know it, there'll be a post at AMDZone stating Intel clubs baby seals, and then that'll get quoted as fact from a "reliable source" by Charlie "Bunnysuit" Demerjian in some Inquirer anti-intel article. Next thing you know Intel will be getting investigated by the SPCA