Cortana Is Listening

[royalcrown]

Don't forget their Broadcom support sucks rocks, otherwise I'd be running Mint or Elementary.

Got a Windows or Apple problem? Get a Linux solution.

If Linux graphics drivers, OpenGL, and game library was anywhere near MS Windows then I would of switched to CENTOS a long time ago. As it stands I need MS Windows to play games, which is what makes Windows 10 required for DX12 so dreadful. DX12 has a huge array of performance improvements and new features that will really let games shine, but I won't be accepting an OS that is actively spying on me. It's like having a MS employee standing over your should 24/7 watching everything you do and writing it down.

 

[palladin9479]

While I agree that the whole privacy thing is bad, what would you think if MS was actually using the data to make windows better ? They do seem to be pretty out of touch with some simple facts such as:

People want their OS to run their software as quickly as possible.

They want to choose their own apps vs having it bundled with the OS.

I'd have no problem if they used collected data to actually get rid of crap and have a smaller footprint; If they used the data to see what hardware people are using for the purpose of drivers and cutting unneeded legacy code out. Of course it should be anonomized then deleted after a reasonable time such as a year.

i doubt they will ever disable the stuff from within. even with the outcry, it has been proven that none of these companies actually cares about user privacy. they may make a token effort to turn off a couple things but in the end it won't change much. to use cortana the way it is intended does require such access to your pc. same as other digital assistants. but ti should not require the collection if you don't chose to use cortana which it currently does.

in the end it will be the community that will make it an option before MS/Google/Apple do it themselves.

To be fair I'm not even talking about Cortana, that's just a bit of software laid on top of that observation framework. The absolute worst thing someone can do is link their login to a MS account. Keep the account a local one and you remove much of the overt risk, though it'll still try to collect usage data just not have a real person to connect it with. I figure we'll eventually have a full tool that blocks network access from the internal tool, similar to what McAfee HIPS does.

None of that is happening, and if it ever does it will only be because an Engineer convinces a executive puke that it would be revenue generating.

"Features" like that aren't installed to make your experience better, they are installed to maximize revenue streams. The purpose of all this isn't to make Windows better, the bulk of their sales is from OEM and government and those are virtually guaranteed, it's purpose is to generate data that they can then sell to other companies or use internally for better product placement. MS will be offering data services to other software companies, letting them know the metrics of utilization for software. They can sell how many users between the ages of 21 and 28 use software X for Y number of hours per day. Sell how many hours per week people are viewing certain adds or certain media. Sell any kind of metric or metadata that their dominate market position enables them to collect.

Now that itself wouldn't be bad, if it was completely anonymized with a non-reversible hash. But no, it's being stored under the name of whatever MS account it's linked to along with the unique installation ID of that system. Further you can be 100% guaranteed government agencies, federal and state, will instantly have unfettered access to all this data permanently, there is no delete function.

http://www.wired.com/2015/08/know-nsa-atts-spying-pact/

This observation platform and the resulting permanent non-anonymized data archival created from it presents an opportunity for federal agencies to monitor the computing actions of everyone using it. To expand from that previous MS employee standing over one shoulder watching you and writing down what your doing, imagine over the other shoulder you have ED 209.

 

[royalcrown]

Well of course corporate greed and stupidity will overrule engineering, that's how it works now.

While I agree that the whole privacy thing is bad, what would you think if MS was actually using the data to make windows better ? They do seem to be pretty out of touch with some simple facts such as:

People want their OS to run their software as quickly as possible.

They want to choose their own apps vs having it bundled with the OS.

I'd have no problem if they used collected data to actually get rid of crap and have a smaller footprint; If they used the data to see what hardware people are using for the purpose of drivers and cutting unneeded legacy code out. Of course it should be anonomized then deleted after a reasonable time such as a year.

i doubt they will ever disable the stuff from within. even with the outcry, it has been proven that none of these companies actually cares about user privacy. they may make a token effort to turn off a couple things but in the end it won't change much. to use cortana the way it is intended does require such access to your pc. same as other digital assistants. but ti should not require the collection if you don't chose to use cortana which it currently does.

in the end it will be the community that will make it an option before MS/Google/Apple do it themselves.

To be fair I'm not even talking about Cortana, that's just a bit of software laid on top of that observation framework. The absolute worst thing someone can do is link their login to a MS account. Keep the account a local one and you remove much of the overt risk, though it'll still try to collect usage data just not have a real person to connect it with. I figure we'll eventually have a full tool that blocks network access from the internal tool, similar to what McAfee HIPS does.

None of that is happening, and if it ever does it will only be because an Engineer convinces a executive puke that it would be revenue generating.

"Features" like that aren't installed to make your experience better, they are installed to maximize revenue streams. The purpose of all this isn't to make Windows better, the bulk of their sales is from OEM and government and those are virtually guaranteed, it's purpose is to generate data that they can then sell to other companies or use internally for better product placement. MS will be offering data services to other software companies, letting them know the metrics of utilization for software. They can sell how many users between the ages of 21 and 28 use software X for Y number of hours per day. Sell how many hours per week people are viewing certain adds or certain media. Sell any kind of metric or metadata that their dominate market position enables them to collect.

Now that itself wouldn't be bad, if it was completely anonymized with a non-reversible hash. But no, it's being stored under the name of whatever MS account it's linked to along with the unique installation ID of that system. Further you can be 100% guaranteed government agencies, federal and state, will instantly have unfettered access to all this data permanently, there is no delete function.

http://www.wired.com/2015/08/know-nsa-atts-spying-pact/

This observation platform and the resulting permanent non-anonymized data archival created from it presents an opportunity for federal agencies to monitor the computing actions of everyone using it. To expand from that previous MS employee standing over one shoulder watching you and writing down what your doing, imagine over the other shoulder you have ED 209.

 

[surphninja]

Most people use iOS and Android happily which both track everything you do. Yet they are still secure enough that people are OK with it.

I think it's a combination of people being ignorant about what's tracked, and also tech savvy people assume all cell phone use is tracked and accordingly use it for less sensitive communications and access. Previously, we could consider our desktops somewhat of a safe haven, but now Microsoft has openly violated that last vestige of privacy on the assumption that most people would just accept it.

 

[GObonzo]

it's all in planning for the alien-zombie invasion

 

[jimmysmitty]

Wait Google (OK Google) and apple (siri) have had the same functionality and capturing the same data for much longer than Microsoft has with cortana. Why now the concern and only directed to one company?

Except they aren't. Google and Apple collect usage date but then it gets anonymized locally. Server side all they are storing is hash's and metadata that isn't linked back to an individual. Once you install Windows 10 and link it to a MS account, they have a record of everything you are doing. Not just browsing the internet, but every application you open, how long you opened it, what files you worked on, what you did with those files and what's the content of those files. This btw is completely separate from Cortana. Cortana is just a UI element that analyzes the data MS has already collected and attempts to find ways to make that data useful to you. This data isn't anonymized, it's stored on the MS server for an indefinite amount of time and is freely available for them, or anyone in the government, to use for whatever purpose they want.

In the past it took a human combing through information in order to make it useful and thus information collecting had to be targeted and specific. Now computing power has hit such a level that it's possible for a program to run every night that combs through all the collected data and pulls out reports and targeted hit lists.

If that doesn't send shivers down people's spines then they really are living as sheep.

Google is just as bad or worse:

http://www.theguardian.com/technology/2013/aug/14/google-gmail-users-privacy-email-lawsuit

That alone shows that Google has very little concern for privacy and I remember when that came out people were up in a roar about it yet now they have moved on to the next big thing which is Windows 10. Hell Google was the one who bypassed the Do Not Track basically saying that your privacy did not matter to them and Microsoft had to make a specific Google DnT TPL list (which I still use to this day in IE).

junkeymoneky, as I said you really need to look at what you use and how they use it. You have already agreed to many things like you are angry about in Windows 10. DO you have any Adobe products? Most of them push updates now automatically. Firefox and Chrome do as well, only Chrome tracks the crap out of you.

...


How the heck is google reading your email the same as MS tracking every application you run on your desktop, how long you run that application, what files you open with that application and everything else you do with your computer. Those are two entirely different orders of magnitudes.

With google you can chose to not use gmail, to use any number of separate internet mail providers, or run your own mail server with a MX record on something like godaddy or dyndns. Any of those solutions would provide you with email connectivity with 100% of the world. With MS on the other hand, you can't chose to use a different OS without sacrificing the sheer volume of previous software. Thankfully Windows 7 didn't come with such abusive tracking options, so people can continue to use it for the time being. Unfortunately DX12 looks to not be available for anything before Windows 10, which puts anyone who plays games into a serious situation. We just need to hang on until the wave of outcry results in the next Service Pack having the option to permanently disable all the tracking framework.

It was an example. As in how everyone is clamoring over Microsoft for things Google has already done. People are acting like only Microsoft does this yet that article alone shows that Google is not concerned with your privacy so it is safe to assume that anything you use from Google collects data. Have you ever run a packet capture on an Android device?

ANd you are right, people have the choice not to use GMail but that doesn't make it right. Just as people have said being clean doesn't mean tracking what you do in Windows is right.

I never said it was right. I just get annoyed watching people act as if this is anything new. I have said multiple times that I hope it is changed. Personally I like 10, it is faster and smoother than 8 was. I however am not going to follow the crowd and freak out about it.

And no, DX12 wont be coming to anything lower than 10 because it is tied into WDDM 2.0 which the last time Microsoft upgraded such a core part of the OS (they upgraded Windows 7s WDDM for DX11.1) there were a ton of issues.

And I am still waiting to see if someone can give me more than "packets get sent". I want actual information on those packets to see what they pertain to and what they contain. I could make a equal claim but I prefer to back it up with real information, hence why I posted a article about privacy (which is what people are concerned about with this) and how Google does not care showing that Google will do anything to sell your data. The fact that they bypassed the DnT list alone shows that they will track and sell your data yet so far we have nothing to go on but that packets are being sent. Yet people still use Google, GMail and even better Android and Chrome.

Sorry but it is interesting how hard Microsoft is getting hammered for the same thing the others have been doing that no one seems to care.

 

[palladin9479]

It was an example. As in how everyone is clamoring over Microsoft for things Google has already done. People are acting like only Microsoft does this yet that article alone shows that Google is not concerned with your privacy so it is safe to assume that anything you use from Google collects data. Have you ever run a packet capture on an Android device?

And you didn't read anything I wrote ..... which explains a lot.

 

[jimmysmitty]

It was an example. As in how everyone is clamoring over Microsoft for things Google has already done. People are acting like only Microsoft does this yet that article alone shows that Google is not concerned with your privacy so it is safe to assume that anything you use from Google collects data. Have you ever run a packet capture on an Android device?

And you didn't read anything I wrote ..... which explains a lot.

Nor do you read what I wrote. Both concern privacy. My example is to show what Google thinks of your privacy and shows that this is nothing new. If you use any of or have used any of Googles services, then you have already been tracked every click or tap.

 

[palladin9479]

It was an example. As in how everyone is clamoring over Microsoft for things Google has already done. People are acting like only Microsoft does this yet that article alone shows that Google is not concerned with your privacy so it is safe to assume that anything you use from Google collects data. Have you ever run a packet capture on an Android device?

And you didn't read anything I wrote ..... which explains a lot.

Nor do you read what I wrote. Both concern privacy. My example is to show what Google thinks of your privacy and shows that this is nothing new. If you use any of or have used any of Googles services, then you have already been tracked every click or tap.

If you did then you would of read this

How the heck is google reading your email the same as MS tracking every application you run on your desktop, how long you run that application, what files you open with that application and everything else you do with your computer. Those are two entirely different orders of magnitudes.

Instead of blatantly ignoring it and constructing a straw-man argument in an attempt to defend your preference for Windows 10.

We don't care if you like Windows 10, that's your choice. Don't try to convince other people "it's not really that bad".

 

[jimmysmitty]

It was an example. As in how everyone is clamoring over Microsoft for things Google has already done. People are acting like only Microsoft does this yet that article alone shows that Google is not concerned with your privacy so it is safe to assume that anything you use from Google collects data. Have you ever run a packet capture on an Android device?

And you didn't read anything I wrote ..... which explains a lot.

Nor do you read what I wrote. Both concern privacy. My example is to show what Google thinks of your privacy and shows that this is nothing new. If you use any of or have used any of Googles services, then you have already been tracked every click or tap.

If you did then you would of read this

How the heck is google reading your email the same as MS tracking every application you run on your desktop, how long you run that application, what files you open with that application and everything else you do with your computer. Those are two entirely different orders of magnitudes.

Instead of blatantly ignoring it and constructing a straw-man argument in an attempt to defend your preference for Windows 10.

We don't care if you like Windows 10, that's your choice. Don't try to convince other people "it's not really that bad".

I love how aggressive you are getting over it. Should I be the same? The "We don't care if you don't like Windows 10. Stop trying to convince others "it is really bad".

Of course I guess we cannot have a discussion about it with opposing view points, no?

It is not a straw man argument, it is an example of what has already been going on and is similar, again both concern privacy.

Oh and if you did read what I said, I do hope that more control is given to turn it off just like I also hope I get more control back of my Windows updates as I prefer that.

 

[Memhorder]

Of course they are collecting this data. It's called Big Data and it's used for not only advertising but home land security. I'm sure Cortana isn't available in Canada because of different laws but US? Why not. Microsoft has been co-operating with the NSA for years along with google and other big network giants. I have no Cortana nor need or want it but I'm not afraid either. Nothing to hide here : p

 

[Unolocogringo]

Of course they are collecting this data. It's called Big Data and it's used for not only advertising but home land security. I'm sure Cortana isn't available in Canada because of different laws but US? Why not. Microsoft has been co-operating with the NSA for years along with google and other big network giants. I have no Cortana nor need or want it but I'm not afraid either. Nothing to hide here : p

I have nothing to hide either, except my contacts lists,bank information,custom house plans for clients ,business tax papers, personal tax papers etc....
With all of that information from everyone who upgrades to win10, do you think Microsoft will be able to defend their network from all of the hacker groups who will be at them constantly??? Eventually someone will get in and have everything on millions or hundreds of millions of people.
I believe the number was 40 million upgrades in the first week, and most of those upgrading had no idea that all of their information on their computer would be sent to Microsoft.

 

[IInuyasha74]

Of course they are collecting this data. It's called Big Data and it's used for not only advertising but home land security. I'm sure Cortana isn't available in Canada because of different laws but US? Why not. Microsoft has been co-operating with the NSA for years along with google and other big network giants. I have no Cortana nor need or want it but I'm not afraid either. Nothing to hide here : p

I have nothing to hide either, except my contacts lists,bank information,custom house plans for clients ,business tax papers, personal tax papers etc....
With all of that information from everyone who upgrades to win10, do you think Microsoft will be able to defend their network from all of the hacker groups who will be at them constantly??? Eventually someone will get in and have everything on millions or hundreds of millions of people.
I believe the number was 40 million upgrades in the first week, and most of those upgrading had no idea that all of their information on their computer would be sent to Microsoft.

This is actually something I hadn't actually thought about. I was too preoccupied being concerned at the amount of data they were gathering for advertising that I didn't even think about how they store it. Granted, services like bank sites and Paypal have our banking information already, some may have countless other bits of information, but I would expect banks to have higher security measures and containment procedures in place to avoid hacks, and if they are hacked, to minimize the fallout. With how much information Microsoft is storing, I don't feel confident in their ability to keep all of it secure. Not to mention, the vast amount of services and products they have that are linked to the web create countless more security flaws that can be exploited relative to a simple very constrained service like a bank might offer.

Their security might even be really top notch, but if information can be leaked from the CIA, it can from anyone. I'm just not comfortable with one online service of any kind holding absolutely all of this information.

 

[zthomas]

While I agree that the whole privacy thing is bad, what would you think if MS was actually using the data to make windows better ? They do seem to be pretty out of touch with some simple facts such as:

People want their OS to run their software as quickly as possible.

They want to choose their own apps vs having it bundled with the OS.

I'd have no problem if they used collected data to actually get rid of crap and have a smaller footprint; If they used the data to see what hardware people are using for the purpose of drivers and cutting unneeded legacy code out. Of course it should be anonomized then deleted after a reasonable time such as a year.

i doubt they will ever disable the stuff from within. even with the outcry, it has been proven that none of these companies actually cares about user privacy. they may make a token effort to turn off a couple things but in the end it won't change much. to use cortana the way it is intended does require such access to your pc. same as other digital assistants. but ti should not require the collection if you don't chose to use cortana which it currently does.

in the end it will be the community that will make it an option before MS/Google/Apple do it themselves.

To be fair I'm not even talking about Cortana, that's just a bit of software laid on top of that observation framework. The absolute worst thing someone can do is link their login to a MS account. Keep the account a local one and you remove much of the overt risk, though it'll still try to collect usage data just not have a real person to connect it with. I figure we'll eventually have a full tool that blocks network access from the internal tool, similar to what McAfee HIPS does.

None of that is happening, and if it ever does it will only be because an Engineer convinces a executive puke that it would be revenue generating.

"Features" like that aren't installed to make your experience better, they are installed to maximize revenue streams. The purpose of all this isn't to make Windows better, the bulk of their sales is from OEM and government and those are virtually guaranteed, it's purpose is to generate data that they can then sell to other companies or use internally for better product placement. MS will be offering data services to other software companies, letting them know the metrics of utilization for software. They can sell how many users between the ages of 21 and 28 use software X for Y number of hours per day. Sell how many hours per week people are viewing certain adds or certain media. Sell any kind of metric or metadata that their dominate market position enables them to collect.

Now that itself wouldn't be bad, if it was completely anonymized with a non-reversible hash. But no, it's being stored under the name of whatever MS account it's linked to along with the unique installation ID of that system. Further you can be 100% guaranteed government agencies, federal and state, will instantly have unfettered access to all this data permanently, there is no delete function.

http://www.wired.com/2015/08/know-nsa-atts-spying-pact/

This observation platform and the resulting permanent non-anonymized data archival created from it presents an opportunity for federal agencies to monitor the computing actions of everyone using it. To expand from that previous MS employee standing over one shoulder watching you and writing down what your doing, imagine over the other shoulder you have ED 209.

I have noticed win10 still keeping tabs on my movements even not setting up Cortana.. its that artificial intel thing.. key wordings.. and google searches.. and offers to try there new word program.. again I will not try..

 

[surphninja]

Of course they are collecting this data. It's called Big Data and it's used for not only advertising but home land security. I'm sure Cortana isn't available in Canada because of different laws but US? Why not. Microsoft has been co-operating with the NSA for years along with google and other big network giants. I have no Cortana nor need or want it but I'm not afraid either. Nothing to hide here : p

I have nothing to hide either, except my contacts lists,bank information,custom house plans for clients ,business tax papers, personal tax papers etc....
With all of that information from everyone who upgrades to win10, do you think Microsoft will be able to defend their network from all of the hacker groups who will be at them constantly??? Eventually someone will get in and have everything on millions or hundreds of millions of people.
I believe the number was 40 million upgrades in the first week, and most of those upgrading had no idea that all of their information on their computer would be sent to Microsoft.

This is actually something I hadn't actually thought about. I was too preoccupied being concerned at the amount of data they were gathering for advertising that I didn't even think about how they store it. Granted, services like bank sites and Paypal have our banking information already, some may have countless other bits of information, but I would expect banks to have higher security measures and containment procedures in place to avoid hacks, and if they are hacked, to minimize the fallout. With how much information Microsoft is storing, I don't feel confident in their ability to keep all of it secure. Not to mention, the vast amount of services and products they have that are linked to the web create countless more security flaws that can be exploited relative to a simple very constrained service like a bank might offer.

Their security might even be really top notch, but if information can be leaked from the CIA, it can from anyone. I'm just not comfortable with one online service of any kind holding absolutely all of this information.

It doesn't instill much confidence in their ability to store it when you keep in mind that they are actively selling a lot of it to advertisers.

Pretty soon Microsoft is going to have more dirt on us than Saint Peter.

We can't continue just relying on the good will of these companies and trust that they'll be able to make the right decision about what information to collect and what's okay to sell. We need strong laws ASAP to limit what can be collected and what can be sold. Thankfully, European governments are starting to take this kind of privacy seriously, so at least they might make some headway in forcing Microsoft to limit all of this collection.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Of course they are collecting this data. It's called Big Data and it's used for not only advertising but home land security. I'm sure Cortana isn't available in Canada because of different laws but US? Why not. Microsoft has been co-operating with the NSA for years along with google and other big network giants. I have no Cortana nor need or want it but I'm not afraid either. Nothing to hide here : p

I have nothing to hide either, except my contacts lists,bank information,custom house plans for clients ,business tax papers, personal tax papers etc....
With all of that information from everyone who upgrades to win10, do you think Microsoft will be able to defend their network from all of the hacker groups who will be at them constantly??? Eventually someone will get in and have everything on millions or hundreds of millions of people.
I believe the number was 40 million upgrades in the first week, and most of those upgrading had no idea that all of their information on their computer would be sent to Microsoft.

This is actually something I hadn't actually thought about. I was too preoccupied being concerned at the amount of data they were gathering for advertising that I didn't even think about how they store it. Granted, services like bank sites and Paypal have our banking information already, some may have countless other bits of information, but I would expect banks to have higher security measures and containment procedures in place to avoid hacks, and if they are hacked, to minimize the fallout. With how much information Microsoft is storing, I don't feel confident in their ability to keep all of it secure. Not to mention, the vast amount of services and products they have that are linked to the web create countless more security flaws that can be exploited relative to a simple very constrained service like a bank might offer.

Their security might even be really top notch, but if information can be leaked from the CIA, it can from anyone. I'm just not comfortable with one online service of any kind holding absolutely all of this information.

It doesn't instill much confidence in their ability to store it when you keep in mind that they are actively selling a lot of it to advertisers.

Pretty soon Microsoft is going to have more dirt on us than Saint Peter.

We can't continue just relying on the good will of these companies and trust that they'll be able to make the right decision about what information to collect and what's okay to sell. We need strong laws ASAP to limit what can be collected and what can be sold. Thankfully, European governments are starting to take this kind of privacy seriously, so at least they might make some headway in forcing Microsoft to limit all of this collection.

I find it funny that countries mainly run by socialism, which has already landed a few in trouble economically, are concerned with their citizens privacy considering socialist countries spy even worse.

I guess we will see what happens there.

 

[GObonzo]

i caught Cortana peeking in on me in the bathroom the other day

 

[jazzy2945]

Cortana does not listing to all you say. Right there next to the Windows logo is the search bar run by Cortana with a microphone. You have to hit the microphone to speak to Cortana. She is not spying on you. Yes, she gather information to provide a better service to you on what you like or are interested. They provide some of this information to third party because if you are looking for shoes, Microsoft does not sell shoes, other companies do. Knowing you are looking for shoes is the information she is gather to improve the service for you. Cortana is not hearing what you are saying unless you speak directly to her by pressing the microphone logo. It's not active gathering information about you. You need to provide this.

On the other hand Google do actively gather your information all the time you use Gmail, Google, Chrome Browser, Calendar, Android and all Google service for selling it. That is the way Google makes money. They don't sell computers, they don't sell OS or Office Suite, or phone like Apple or Microsoft. Google makes money by gathering as much information about you and sell it. Big difference here.

 

[Memhorder]

If your really paranoid maybe encrypt everything and keep it on a Hard Drive in docking station. I'm sure they don't upload all your personal documents just your browsing history, search queries and what ever you schedule with Cortana. There is also the option to not save your passwords in firefox and all others.

 

[CATERWAULER]

This is too much! All the people who want Cortana so it can tell you your phone is ringing? And you can't remember an appointment? You are not among the people being dumbed down, you are already dumbed down! Cortana is nothing more than a branch of the NSA that it sifting your info every minute of your sad life.

 

[jimmysmitty]

The problem with any ap or O/S/ that gathers data on you for even the most supposedly 'innocent' reasons,
(there are NO innocent reasons to to gather such data, and none that will benefit you personally) is that sooner or later the info will end up in the wrong hands.
Sooner, probably.

I do agree to a point but remember people happily use online banking and various other things that collect and store a lot of personal data.

And so far, Microsoft has yet to have a massive data breach like some banks, Sony or even Google.

This is too much! All the people who want Cortana so it can tell you your phone is ringing? And you can't remember an appointment? You are not among the people being dumbed down, you are already dumbed down! Cortana is nothing more than a branch of the NSA that it sifting your info every minute of your sad life.

You assume that people who would benefit from something like Cortona have only a few appointments? You must not have seen a top level employee of a company that has multiple appointments every day.

And I can tell you from experience that it does not hurt to be reminded when you have something to do, especially on a busy day when time will fly away from you without noticing.

 

[Math Geek]

here is an interesting note i read this morning. it says MS is pushing the same data snooping into win 7 and 8 through some recent updates

http://www.techworm.net/2015/08/new-windows-788-1-updates-spy-on-you-just-like-windows-10.html

something to avoid if you stay with win 7 for the "privacy".

 

[surphninja]

I do agree to a point but remember people happily use online banking and various other things that collect and store a lot of personal data.

But you're talking about services that you opt into, typically with the understanding that you're being datamined. Not to mention that certain services, like online banking, can't sell to advertisers most or all of the data, such as where you're shopping. Many banks will sell some info to third parties, but there is usually an opt-out, and opting out of receiving ads doesn't shut down half of your banking services.

The problem with this being done on your pc's OS (an OS that is flat out required to run a lot of applications that are necessary to work and live) is this is a dramatic ramp-up in data collection and privacy erosion, opt-in is required for a number of services, even when opting out the OS is still sending out personally identifiable information in some circumstances, and paid for software is not suppose to generate revenue from ads or datamining. You should make money on your OS by selling the OS- not by selling out your customers' privacy.

Saying "well, your other apps mine and sell your data. what's different here?" undermines the magnitude of this encroachment on personal privacy. That's like saying "well, they put cameras on the red lights. how's it different if they put them in your homes?"

 

[USAFRet]

But you're talking about services that you opt into, typically with the understanding that you're being datamined.

Bottom line though....Windows 10 is also opt-in.

 

[jimmysmitty]

I do agree to a point but remember people happily use online banking and various other things that collect and store a lot of personal data.

But you're talking about services that you opt into, typically with the understanding that you're being datamined. Not to mention that certain services, like online banking, can't sell to advertisers most or all of the data, such as where you're shopping. Many banks will sell some info to third parties, but there is usually an opt-out, and opting out of receiving ads doesn't shut down half of your banking services.

The problem with this being done on your pc's OS (an OS that is flat out required to run a lot of applications that are necessary to work and live) is this is a dramatic ramp-up in data collection and privacy erosion, opt-in is required for a number of services, even when opting out the OS is still sending out personally identifiable information in some circumstances, and paid for software is not suppose to generate revenue from ads or datamining. You should make money on your OS by selling the OS- not by selling out your customers' privacy.

Saying "well, your other apps mine and sell your data. what's different here?" undermines the magnitude of this encroachment on personal privacy. That's like saying "well, they put cameras on the red lights. how's it different if they put them in your homes?"

Yet, as pointed out before, Googles Android and iOS collect a lot of the same data. Hell I have installed apps that ask permission to my contacts. Games. What for? To mine the data and sell to make money.

I have linked articles showing what companies like Google think about your privacy, they don't care. To them you are nothing but a money bag. Yet people use and have been using their services without blinking.

The second Microsoft does it everyone gets up in arms.

As I said, I still want more control especially for the super paranoid people out there but the amount of attention it is getting is pretty funny.

As well I trust Microsoft much like I trust VALVe. They are both companies that tend to secure data better than others. As I said, how many times have you seen an article showing millions of users personal data has been compromised from Microsoft? Not many. If so I haven;t found it online, just some small breaches. Now look at other major companies, including banking. They all have had major breaches, even the US government has.

I am sure this will die down in the near future but I am also sure that Microsoft will also make some additional changes to allow for more control on the desktop version as the majority of these things seem to pertain to the more mobile aspect of Windows 10, which again it is a AiO OS meaning that the mobile version will be the same as the desktop version.