Could This Be Apple's New Miniature Dock Connector?

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[citation][nom]SAL-e[/nom]Really, I guess Apple and Apple fanboys never heard about MHL [1]. It was in draft since 2008 and offical industry standard since 2010.[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobil [...] ition_Link[/citation] I've had an Android phone since 2010 and I never heard of MHL until just now. My phone doesn’t have MHL and my next Android phone won’t have MHL.

There is only a few brands with some models that support MHL. Some are non-standard such as the Samsung GS3. Whatever… but thanks for your part in educating people.
 
[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]OK I get it, the new port will have a different connector at the phone end...But what about the other end of the cable that is used? If it plugs into a USB port on your Mac or PC then it is a USB cable by definition ~~

hell maybe even Thunderbolt...I seriously doubt that they will go Thunderbolt only as the protocol as not enough computers have it yet and HDMI is an output not input, so you wouldn't be able to plug the iPhone into your graphics card to sync photos onto your PC... ~~~not outrage people that have just laid out $30,000 on the Behringer iNuke Boom iPod[/citation]

A) It can have USB, yet be more than USB... just like the old connector. USB only needs 4 wires. The Apple Connector is 16. While you can do many things with USB, there are many limitations as well when it comes to bandwidth.

B) It will need to be at least a USB 3.0 for performance as USB2.0 is very slow by todays standards. By having a different connector, the accessory that can take advantage OF such performance would need to be replaced anyway (even the $30,000 or $500,000 iPad speakers). So going for USB3 or better makes it a good time to change the connector.

C)
doubt they go thunderbolt
Click to expand...
You are not so forward thinking, huh? Apple wants and needs to have their standard work for about 10 years. It was APPLE that pushed USB, even thou we had USB on PCs before Mac did... you know what, I never ever used the USB ports on my first board that had it, there was nothing out there for it. Steve Jobs returned to apple, released new iMac/MacPros with USB and using USB for mice, keyboards, etc.

I don't know what Apple is doing with the new connector, it doesn't effect my phones - so it doesn't really matter. But *I* would guess there is a 95% chance it WILL be thunderbolt. I've looked over some patent info from Apple and pin outs. The patent shows 12 wiress for a Thunderbolt cable. Hmmm.. how many pins do we have on the iPhone 5? Count them, 16.

That would allow for a Thunderbolt (Mac) or USB2.0 cable to be used (PC). - I am doing an educated guess, of course.

With Thunderbolt (TB), even a reduced version that will not generate as much heat, it HAS the ability to do: PCIe / USB3.0 / HDMI / Audio / power to charge battery and transfer data without a hiccup. This is something USB 2.0 and 3.0 cannot DO.

Also, by putting TB on every Apple computer and iOS device, the costs for making the controllers, connectors, cabling becomes much much cheaper. TB is already coming to PC and is going to bring many new possibilities with future notebooks.

Oh, and HDMI is a two-way cable. Look at the HDMI port on your TV. It does not say "HDMI IN", Yes your TV is going to getting display info - but its a two-way cable for DRM and simplicity.

D) LOL! Thanks for the info on the $15,000, $30,000 and $500,000 iPad/iPod speaker systems. Pretty much anyone who spends that much for speakers should be kicked in the balls. Its just for show "hehehe, I bought a $500k speaker! I'm sooo kewl". Still, anyone who can afford a $30,000 speaker for an iPad (A $100~250 device) won't blink on buying a newer model.

note: I've never bought a Mac computer, never owned an iPhone. I think apple is a jerk-idiot company for going after Samsung over bullshit. But give credit where credit is due.

 
To the children who downrate over not liking what someone says...

The Apple iOS connector *IS* a standard. Yes, for Apple... but it not just for one product, its for a whole line of products. Buy a $2000 camera and come back to me about standards lens and connectors for accessories.

Apple products are so everywhere, its not really such a big deal that they are NOT using mini-USB which DOES not come in USB 3.0, does NOT handle the feature sets of Apple connectors.

I have an Android phone, I have an iPad... I've used a mini-USB docking station. Trust me, mini-USB, hell even regular USB are easier to damage. They DO NOT make for a docking connector. The USB industry MUST make a DOCK connector... I see nothing that shows that.

Plug in an Apple connector into a device, its far easier and smoother to connect. Next time you are in a store, give it a try. This is based on experience, so when I first charged the iPad its liek "oh, that's why they don't USB". The new apple connector is going to be the same, easier to plug in than ANY USB plug on the market. I can see that in the design.
 
[citation][nom]house70[/nom]That was exactly what I was thinking. I thought there was a requirement like that instated in the EU (at least) but I wasn't sure. Now that you mentioned it as well, I am. Very curious how Apple will pull this one on the EU market. I believe this got instated back when mini-USB was the standard, and then micro-USB followed, just because it's also a universal port that is using the same USB standard. Or maybe it just have to comply with one end of the cable, that's why there are now power adapters that output in a USB port.[/citation]

I'm afraid not. Apple got a dispensation for not using micro-USB as the primary charging input and had to provide a micro-USB compatible connector for legacy products.

However, Apple along with all major smart phone and another mobile equipment companies have signed and backed the EU directive. Every product released after January 1st 2011 has to have micro-USB as the primary charging input in the device itself. As mentioned, Apple got a dispensation for their legacy port connector. They will not get a new dispensation as they have already agreed and signed that they will abide by this directive in full should they decide to switch connector type in the future (now).



Simply put. If Apple is not going the micro-USB route as they have agreed and signed they would then the European marked is closed for them, and the iPhone 5 will never be allowed inside the EU.
 
[citation][nom]vant[/nom]The dock connector has much more capability than a USB cable.For example: Video out. Many phone manufacturers either use mini HDMI + mini USB, or they just don't support it.[/citation]
Disagree. Most of Android phones/tablets have HDMI out via microUSB port.
 
[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]The new and even current dock connector has no problems with the EU. Have you bought an Android phone or Apple product in the past few years? Did you notice the charger?A) The EU requires that the phones use a standard charger connector or USB from a computer / HUB / etc.B) Android and iOS device have chargers with a USB port. You can charge anything. I just plugged my Android phone into my iPad charger. Wow, it works! Shock.[/citation]
Actually what you and the rest are referring to, is to Common External Power Supply, a specification in Europe for a standard power supply for all phones. For a phone to comply with the standard it must use a USB type Micro-B connector on the phone, which the iPhone doesn't use. If the cable from the changer is detachable then the connector on the charger must be a USB type A. But you're right, Apple has no problem in the EU. People here are confusing that this specification is obligatory, when it's voluntary.
 
[citation][nom]AndrewMD[/nom]Because USB alone will not support the ton of accessories they current have using the older 30 pin docks. Also as someone else pointed out, USB does not support audio, video, and the numerous other stuff DIRECTLY WITHOUT EXTERNAL SUPPORT as the dock port currently supports.[/citation]
that weird, my usb camera, my DSLR and my video camera (my usb tv turner) are perfectly able to transmit video on usb. Why can't apple do it?

While i do understand apple in this move i really don't like it, but i can think of a few reason while apple do this.

1 - Sell their overpriced adapter at a 400% profit margin.
2 - The target marked of apple, they can't relay on those people to actually read their power supply and realize they are using a 3 generation behind power adapter and can damage their equipment. (Their target market is just to stupid to think for themselves)
 
[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]You know this for a fact because...?house70 said: So? Look at the new USB3 devices coming, or Thunderbolt. Compared to anyone else, Apple has and will have a consistent interface that 3rd party accessory makers can easily follow. Ever look in ANY store for accessories. You will find about 3~5x more apple stuff than all the others combined. Already some devices are made for iPad, others for iPod/iPhone.When someone upgrades their phone/tablet - they can either get an physical adapter or a cable adapter or replace the accessory. Some devices come with iPod Adapters since those come in different shapes. Its not rocket science. [/citation]
I agree with you. In fact, you have just repeated what I have said in my statement, meaning people will HAVE to buy the new plethora of accessories, instead of being able to use their old plethora of accessories. A lot of these people have invested quite a bit of time and money in their accessory collection, and not they'll have to either get an adapter cable, which will make their contraption look like... well, a contraption, or throw everything they have away and start from scratch.
Thanks for confirming my argument.
 
[citation][nom]saturnus[/nom]I'm afraid not. Apple got a dispensation for not using micro-USB as the primary charging input and had to provide a micro-USB compatible connector for legacy products.However, Apple along with all major smart phone and another mobile equipment companies have signed and backed the EU directive. Every product released after January 1st 2011 has to have micro-USB as the primary charging input in the device itself. As mentioned, Apple got a dispensation for their legacy port connector. They will not get a new dispensation as they have already agreed and signed that they will abide by this directive in full should they decide to switch connector type in the future (now).Simply put. If Apple is not going the micro-USB route as they have agreed and signed they would then the European marked is closed for them, and the iPhone 5 will never be allowed inside the EU.[/citation]
Even though Apple was one of the companies that signed the agreement of the Common EPS when it was present, the standard is still voluntary. Also Apple to comply with the standard has released a USB type Micro-B adapter for their products, so I guess they will do the same with this one.
 
[citation][nom]Vladislaus[/nom]Actually what you and the rest are referring to, is to Common External Power Supply, a specification in Europe for a standard power supply for all phones. For a phone to comply with the standard it must use a USB type Micro-B connector on the phone, which the iPhone doesn't use. If the cable from the changer is detachable then the connector on the charger must be a USB type A. But you're right, Apple has no problem in the EU. People here are confusing that this specification is obligatory, when it's voluntary.[/citation]

Irregardless, we can put all the speculation about it being incompatible with EU directives at rest. I've just learned that the dock is going to be micro-USB. It will just have additional contacts on the outside of the type B connector which is not a violation as it will still be able to use a standard charger.
 
[citation][nom]g00fysmiley[/nom]why not just use a frickin usb 3.0 cable... srsly why be difficult it isn't like aftermarket makers aren't just going to make stuff work with it... oh right the royalties on using thier special connectors... god i hate how apple does buisness[/citation]
[citation][nom]fyend[/nom]Stop with the proprietary crap. There is no need for it in this case. USB seems to work for everyone else, but that would cut into your selling overpriced cables and chargers I guess.[/citation]
Apple's iphone/ipod/ipad connector is more than just data transfer + power. It also serves as audio and video out. Most other devices rely on some sort of HDMI port in addition to the USB data/charge port. But this doesn't really align with Apple's inane obsession for a "seamless" product.

ASUS uses a proprietary connector on their tablets PLUS a separate HDMI port and only few people complained about it.

Personally I think Apple's justification that going to a smaller connector allows greater form-factor and internal component flexibility is bogus. It's just one more way they can try to differentiate the new iphone release from the previous phones, and give people a feeling of actually having a new phone--unlike the iphone 4/4s debacle. I would LOVE to know what going to a smaller connector actually bought Apple in terms of form-factor and internal component flexibility that they couldn't achieve with the previous connector.
 
[citation][nom]eddieroolz[/nom]Proprietary connections is not something I agree with, but then USB isn't so universal either, to be frankly honest.[/citation]
USB - Universal Serial Bus connector, so yes actually, its literally universal
 
[citation][nom]saturnus[/nom]Irregardless, we can put all the speculation about it being incompatible with EU directives at rest. I've just learned that the dock is going to be micro-USB. It will just have additional contacts on the outside of the type B connector which is not a violation as it will still be able to use a standard charger.[/citation]
I am thumbing down on pure pet peeve of your use of "irregardless" though it is in the dictionaries. Although it's true that the American Heritage Dictionary, the Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary, and the Oxford English Dictionary all list the word irregardless, they also note that it's considered nonstandard. Listing a word as nonstandard is a way that dictionaries concede that a word is in common use, but isn't really a proper word. Standard language is defined as the language spoken by educated native speakers, but comprehensive dictionaries also include nonstandard words, dialect, colloquialisms, and jargon--words like ain't, conversate, and irregardless.
 
[citation][nom]rebel1280[/nom]I am thumbing down on pure pet peeve of your use of "irregardless"...

...Standard language is defined as the language spoken by educated native speakers...[/citation]

And I'm thumbing you down because I am not a native English speaker. It's my 3rd language. Irregardlessly.
 
In other news, Apple has added another accessory to their product line up. A 30-pin dock to mini dock adapter. It can you yours for a cheap price of just $99.95!
Order yours today!
 
My wife bought a new phone from Verizon and the car adapter was $30 [and all it is in the DC lighter plug with two USB ports on it]. The gas station sells the same thing with one USB port for $5. I can buy a lot of 10 of those [brand new] on eBay for $8 shipped.

EVERYONE overcharges for cables and adapters!

BTW-- right now on apple.com I can buy a car adapter with two USB ports, plus a USB-to-30pin cable for $35, so right in the same neighborhood of Verizon in that regard.



 
[citation][nom]g00fysmiley[/nom]why not just use a frickin usb 3.0 cable... srsly why be difficult it isn't like aftermarket makers aren't just going to make stuff work with it... oh right the royalties on using thier special connectors... god i hate how apple does buisness[/citation]
it's not just apple....it's everyone...get used to it
 
[citation][nom]saturnus[/nom]And I'm thumbing you down because I am not a native English speaker. It's my 3rd language. Irregardlessly.[/citation]
Well....this is awkward 😛 sorry bout that, was not aware of your situation. At least now you know its non standard English :) and that should help in learning the American language. Though using after being told its non standard well... that's on you. English is my second language as well :) But I live in the states so I'm a little more pressed to use it correctly.
 
[citation][nom]belardo[/nom]To the children who downrate over not liking what someone says...The Apple iOS connector *IS* a standard. Yes, for Apple... but it not just for one product, its for a whole line of products. Buy a $2000 camera and come back to me about standards lens and connectors for accessories.Apple products are so everywhere, its not really such a big deal that they are NOT using mini-USB which DOES not come in USB 3.0, does NOT handle the feature sets of Apple connectors.I have an Android phone, I have an iPad... I've used a mini-USB docking station. Trust me, mini-USB, hell even regular USB are easier to damage. They DO NOT make for a docking connector. The USB industry MUST make a DOCK connector... I see nothing that shows that.Plug in an Apple connector into a device, its far easier and smoother to connect. Next time you are in a store, give it a try. This is based on experience, so when I first charged the iPad its liek "oh, that's why they don't USB". The new apple connector is going to be the same, easier to plug in than ANY USB plug on the market. I can see that in the design.[/citation]

I think your missing the point. Lots of loyal Apple users have used the same propieraty Apple standard cable and dock accessories for several years (some potentially since the original iPod if anyone still has a working one.

Some of these speaker docks / clocks etc will not become garbage. Some people use their iProduct as an alarm to wake them up using more powerful external speakers.

The issue here is Apple is reinventing a slimmer, BUT still proprietary connector that makes those accessories useless. Sure adapters will likely exist for keep backwards compatibility between data cables, but many of those Speaker docks and clocks are fitted specially for the 30pin connector and a plastic housing to hold your device (Small groves/slots near the dock to fit an iPod or iPhone). Any adapter would result in your device sitting on top of the adapter and not securely fit in the speaker housing area.

There should be a universal dock across all electronics (The EU, European Union, mandates all electronics must have USB dock for charging, so why not avoid the hassle of dongles and adapters and implement a UNIVERSAL and international standard.

If that were the case, accessory manufacturers could design speaker docks with compatibility with multiple form factors in mind without need to create several different models for different electronic devices because of different connector sockets.

 
[citation][nom]house70[/nom]I agree with you. In fact, you have just repeated what I have said in my statement, meaning people will HAVE to buy the new plethora of accessories, instead of being able to use their old plethora of accessories. ~blah blah~Thanks for confirming my argument.[/citation] No, I don't agree with you and you are not understanding the context of my argument.

It doesn't REALLY matter. All headphones, all apps, all settings, everything works. All a person has to do is buy an adapter or replace the special accessory. The older one gets turned into a hand-me-down or sold off on Criagslists or Ebay.

Its not like someone is going to go into buying an iPhone5 and be shocked that it doesn't fit some old speaker accessory. Besides, many will upgrade when their 2 year cycle is up. Or if they upgrade early, they know what is involved.

I'm getting a new Android phone soon... are the protectors from my 2yr old Galaxy supposed to fit the Galaxy 3? Does iPhone 3 protectors fit iPhone4? No, again - not a big deal.

So... a few options:

A) You don't have any iOS connector accessories other than the charging cable = no change.
B) You have a dock. Options (1) maker has an adapter which add an inch or so.
(2) you run a cable adapter and place device on table or on top of device.
(3) you sell your old device, buy another.
(4) you cry about the change, old device gets dusty - never to be used again.
(5) You keep your older tech until you die.

Expect all future items to be updated. The accessory makers will simply make money in sales. No other device on the market has anything of a standard as compared to the iOS connector.

And its being updated.

A little bird is saying that the new iOS connector is Mini-USB compatible while allowing for a the extra features for their own uses.

We'll find out in a month or so what will happen.
 
[citation][nom]walter87[/nom]I think your missing the point. Lots of loyal Apple users have used the same propieraty Apple standard cable and dock accessories for several years ~~ edited, 2 responses up ~~ There should be a universal dock across all electronics~, so why not avoid the hassle of dongles and adapters and implement a UNIVERSAL and international standard.[/citation]

The original iPad would not work with PC because (mainstream) because it was firewire ONLY which every Apple had as a standard while very few PCs had firewire. Its not until over 3 years later with iTunes for Windows and USB was standard that iPod really took off. This would be the 3rd version of the dock connector.

Oh, I still use my 2007 dumb phone as an alarm clock. It still works, better than my Samsung Galaxy. Some people will complain, most will understand or not care. They need a smaller connector. Its safer, easier, takes less space, etc.

About what you said on Dock Adapter.... If there is a DOCK adapter (as apposed to a cable connector) - it would only extend the docking unit... allowing the DOCK to sill work. Think of putting two lego pieces together.

You know, companies had made CPU and function adapters that are FAR more complex than a stupid multi-pin I/O connector. On my Amiga1000, I popped off the CPU from the motherboard and plugged in a daughter card which had a faster CPU. I also plugged in another adapter card into the Graphics chip which then gets plugged into the Adapter... which allowed me to plug in a VGA monitor to a 1985 computer that was NEVER designed for such things. Trust me, a dock adapter is 50 cents of plastic and 50 cents of metal to make which will sell for $10~30.

Even USB doesn't stand still. Notice that USB 3.0 isn't the same as USB 2.0. They make a USB3 cable that is incompatible with USB2.

USB is an interface standard, its not a dock connector.
 
[citation][nom]rebel1280[/nom]Well....this is awkward sorry bout that, was not aware of your situation. At least now you know its non standard English and that should help in learning the American language. Though using after being told its non standard well... that's on you. English is my second language as well But I live in the states so I'm a little more pressed to use it correctly.[/citation]

Well, I read the describtion in various online dictionaries after and the second time it was used correctly as it states in Concise English Dictionary that it can be used correctly humorously.
 
[citation][nom]vant[/nom]The dock connector has much more capability than a USB cable.For example: Video out. Many phone manufacturers either use mini HDMI + mini USB, or they just don't support it.[/citation]

And you can buy BOTH cables for half the price as 1 complete iPhone charger...
 
[citation][nom]belardo[/nom] They need a smaller connector. Its safer, easier, takes less space, etc.About what you said on Dock Adapter.... If there is a DOCK adapter (as apposed to a cable connector) - it would only extend the docking unit... allowing the DOCK to sill work. Think of putting two lego pieces together.You know, companies had made CPU and function adapters that are FAR more complex than a stupid multi-pin I/O connector. On my Amiga1000, I popped off the CPU from the motherboard and plugged in a daughter card which had a faster CPU. I also plugged in another adapter card into the Graphics chip which then gets plugged into the Adapter... which allowed me to plug in a VGA monitor to a 1985 computer that was NEVER designed for such things. Trust me, a dock adapter is 50 cents of plastic and 50 cents of metal to make which will sell for $10~30.Even USB doesn't stand still. Notice that USB 3.0 isn't the same as USB 2.0. They make a USB3 cable that is incompatible with USB2.USB is an interface standard, its not a dock connector.[/citation]

USB3 is electrically compatible with USB2, the microUSB3 port looks like a dual microB USB2 port (one half and one full microB) to support the extra data lines for higher bandwidth. A standard USB2 device will be able to connect the the microB portion of USB3 port and all future devices will eventually fully support the USB3 standard.

No 30pin to16 pin adapter will allow compatibility with older iDevices on say a Speaker dock. Those range from $100 to several 100 dollars. It will be a 1inch piece of plastic that will flimsily stand on your speaker and would not be secure at all. You device will just stand an extra inch above the speaker supported by a tiny piece of plastic dongle.

Bottom line is a Universal port should be developed to make full compatibility across all electronic devices (phones, mp3 players etc.)

People don't want to rebuy $100+ accessories every few years.

 
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