[SOLVED] CPU temps rising in seconds

Apr 19, 2021
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Hi, I have an AIO Corsair H100i v2. This is on a i7-7700k maximus IX code motherboard. I have recently been having BSOD's, and have traced it down to high temps. If I keep the system cool by not running intensive apps, it will work fine. As soon as I do to much the temps rise and the system crashes. What is weird is watching the temps in HWMonitor, the temps will jump from around 85 to 185 in seconds. When I close the software that is taxing the system (blue iris) the temps immediately fall back to 85 in seconds.

I don't normally watch temperatures so I don't know if this is normal, but it seems fast. I read other posts about temps and it seems you need to be gaming for 5-10 minutes to really heat a system up. According to ICUE the pump and all is working. Fans are visibly working.

Does this sound normal?

Thanks!
 

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
... I reduced the processor maximum state in power options and this immediately reduced temps to normal. I then set that back to 100, and lowered the overclock back to stock as suggested. Temps are way better now.

What exactly is going on here? Is the processor becoming damaged? ... If it is being damaged, how? Temps have been fine until now. I'm not well versed on OCing. I know enough to be dangerous. I had the motherboard automatically manage voltage, which was around 1.34 at 4.8ghz. Now at 4.2ghz it is around 1.2v ...
No, your processor is not becoming damaged. 1.34 Vcore is certainly well within the maximum recommended Vcore, which is 1.4 volts, so it's highly unlikely that Vcore is the issue. Pay close attention to package power consumption (Watts) in Hardware Info (HWiNFO) during your highest Core temperatures and heaviest workloads. Although the 7700K is a 95 Watt TDP processor, at your overclock settings running a 100% workload, power consumption should reach a maximum of about 125 Watts. Keep in mind that workload drives power consumption which drives Core temperatures.

Concerning Vcore, one size does not fit all. Each Microarchitecture has a “Maximum Recommended Vcore”. For example, it’s important to point out that 22 nanometer 3rd and 4th Generation processors will not tolerate the higher Core voltages of other Microarchitectures.

Here's the Maximum Recommended Vcore per Microarchitecture from 14 to 65 nanometers since 2006:



Each Microarchitecture also has a "Degradation Curve". As a rule, CPUs are more susceptible to "Electromigration" and degradation with each Die-shrink. However, the exception to the rule is 14 nanometer Microarchitecture, where advances in FinFET transistor technology have improved voltage tolerance.

Here's how the Degradation Curves correspond to Maximum Recommended Vcore for 14 nanometer 5th through 10th Generation, which differs from 22 nanometer 3rd and 4th Generation:



As shown above, if you look very closely at the brown curve for 14 nanometer processors, which includes your 7700K, Vcore above 1.425, which agrees with Intel's own Lab Test Engineers (see paragraphs 8, 9 & 10), can cause degradation over time due to "VT shift". Degradation Curves are directly related to the term “Vt (Voltage threshold) Shift” which is expressed in millivolts (mv). Users can not monitor Vt Shift. With respect to overclocking and overvolting, Vt Shift basically represents the potential for permanent loss of normal transistor performance. Excessively high Core voltage drives excessively high Power consumption and Core temperatures, all of which contribute to gradual Vt Shift over time. Core voltages that impose high Vt Shift values are not recommended.

For a safety margin, this is why we recommend that 14 nanometer users should not exceed 1.4 volts. So as I said in my first sentence, your Vcore at 1.34 is well within the maximum recommended value for your 7700K. As such, it's highly unlikely that your Vcore was, or is, of any concern. However, it is not recommended to overclock using "Auto" Vcore BIOS settings or motherboard OC tuning features, as significantly more Vcore than necessary is applied to maintain stability, which needlessly increases Power and heat. It's instead highly recommended to use only "manual" Vcore in BIOS.

When the 7700K was launched in the first quarter of 2017, many articles were written that underscored problems with high Core temperatures, just as when the 3770K was launched in the 2nd quarter of 2012. As I mentioned in my first post, since the 7700K is not a "soldered" processor, it instead uses "paste" between the Die and the IHS (Integrated Heat Spreader) which unlike "Indium" solder, loses its thermal bond to the Die over time.

More specifically, the TIM (Thermal Interface Material) that Intel used on 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th Generation mainstream processors is a paste which, compared to Indium solder, has relatively poor thermal conductivity, and dries over time due to thermal cycling to the consistency of "chalk". So it's not unusual at all for older processors to experience increasingly higher Core temperatures.

The easiest solution is to manually decrease Vcore and frequency in BIOS, which decreases power consumption, and thus Core temperatures. Most overclocking Guides explain how to use manual Vcore settings. Alternatively, "delidding" your processor typically decreases Core temperatures by up to 20°C. Delidding replaces Intel's TIM with "liquid metal" which instead provides good thermal conductivity similar to previous generations of soldered processors.

You can purchase a delidding tool to safely do the job yourself, or you can send your CPU to a company called "Silicon Lottery" who provides professional delidding services. Either solution will cost around $50 USD. For a minimal upcharge, in addition to delidding, you also can have Silicon Lottery “bin" your processor, which will reveal its best overclock frequency and Core voltage settings.

Click on the link in my signature and read Section 9 - The TIM Problem. Also see the previous Section 8 - Overclocking and Voltage.

CT :sol:
 
When your system heats up do you feel a different in temp between the two tubes connected to the CPU waterblock? Have you performed a full system scan for viruses?
Are you overclocking/overvolting any of your components?
 
Apr 19, 2021
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I have scanned for viruses and such. I use avast and spybot. I have felt the tubes. I can't tell much of a difference, maybe a little. If I had to guess the one coming from the top of the block is warmer. I am overclocking the cpu to 4.8 and the memory to it's rated 3200 via xmp. This system has been perfectly stable now for years.
 
Apr 19, 2021
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I also noticed that the temp in ICUE on cooler stays around 87*F. It takes a very long time for the water temp to rise. I am wondering if the thermal paste has decoupled?
 
Apr 19, 2021
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Ok, I even ran the intel processor diagnostic tool and it passed everything. You still think it could be the OC? I'm asking because I am trying to learn here. I have never had to troubleshoot this type of problem. I always OC to stable and leave it, which normally lasts the life of the computer.
 
I don't know. But I've been working on PCs (personally and professionally) for over 30 years. I'm just saying what I would do first.
TIM/mount could definitely be the issue but it's easier to reset settings than remounting a CPU cooler.

The cooler itself is also suspect. Can you adjust the pump RPM in the corsair software? Does it show the RPM change? Is your rad/fan grill all caked with dust?
 

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
... Corsair H100i v2 ... i7-7700k ... maximus IX code motherboard ... recently been having BSOD's ... traced it down to high temps ... in HWMonitor, the temps will jump from around 85 to 185 in seconds. When I close the software that is taxing the system (blue iris) the temps immediately fall back to 85 in seconds ... don't know if this is normal ... need to be gaming for 5-10 minutes to really heat a system up. According to ICUE the pump and all is working ...
victorb17,

On behalf of Tom's Moderator Team, welcome aboard!

AIO cooling performance deteriorates over time typically due to bio contaminants which cause obstructions to normal flow through the water block and radiator. Also, since your H100i v2 does not have a flow sensor, there's no way to accurately determine the amount of flow, regardless of what ICUE indicates since pump RPM does not assure proper flow. Further, since the 7700K is not a "soldered" processor, it instead uses "paste" between the Die and the IHS (Integrated Heat Spreader) which loses its thermal bond over time. Moreover, motherboard VRMs (Voltage Regulator Modules) can lose output stability and power delivery efficiency over time, just as an aging power supply can also begin to have fluctuations and low voltage. Any, or a combination of all of these conditions can account for a decrease in thermal performance and system stability over time.

As a footnote, the standard for thermal measurement in the world of computers is Celcius; not Farenheit, so when monitoring and reporting temperatures, please always do so in degrees C. And as ambient (room) temperature can be a HUGE variable that affects all computer component temperatures, be sure to always state up-front your ambient temperature, for which the International Standard for "normal" is 22°C (72°F). If your ambient is 10°C above normal, then so will be your Core temperatures, which is why we always need this vital bit of information so we don't proceed on false assumptions.

As you stated that your Core temperatures "jump from around 85 (about 30°C) to 185 (85°C) in seconds" during a heavy workload, then "fall back to 85 (30°C) in seconds", this is completely normal and expected, since Core temperatures respond instantly (256 miliseconds) to workloads, which drives power consumption; so more power, more heat.

"Throttle" temperature for your 7700K is 100°C, and is the Core temperature limit at which the processor will automatically "Throttle" (reduce frequency and voltage) to safeguard against thermal damage. However, the consensus among well informed and highly experienced reviewers, system builders, expert overclockers, as well as Intel's own Lab Test Engineers (see paragraphs 8, 9 & 10), is that it's prudent to observe a reasonable thermal margin below Throttle temperature for ultimate stability, performance and longevity. As such, here's the nominal operating range for Core temperature:

Core temperatures above 85°C are not recommended.

Core temperatures below 80°C are ideal.



As you can see, while your peak Core temperature at 85°C is at the upper end of the scale, it's not exceedingly or dangerously high. But if you live in the Northern Hemisphere where we're transitioning into our Summer season and your ambient temperature may increase further, then your Core temperature will also increase further under the same workload conditions. Since "Auto" Core voltage (Vcore) is the default setting in BIOS that typically provides more voltage than necessary to maintain stability, which needlessly increases Core temperatures, you may want to consider manually reducing Vcore in BIOS, which will reduce Core temperatures. Although you didn't mention overclocking, most overclocking guides explain how to use "manual" Vcore, which does not require overclocking.

You also mentioned that you're not accustomed to watching Core temperatures, but as all AIOs will and do fail, which will drive your CPU to Throttle at 100°C, it would be a good idea to continuously monitor your Core temperatures. Core Temp and Hardware Info (HWiNFO) are frequently updated and known to be quite accurate. However, many monitoring utilities such as Hardware Monitor (HWMonitor) are not frequently updated, and are known to mislabel, misreport or “offset” thermal values for various sensors, which can be highly confusing and misleading. Core Temp is a simple and accurate utility that can start up minimized with Windows for easy and continuous monitoring, but when you want to see detailed monitoring information, then Hardware Info is the highly preferred go-to utility. Upon first use, select "Sensors Only"

Once again, welcome aboard!

CT :sol:
 
Reactions: 4Ryan6
Apr 19, 2021
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wow, Computronix, Thanks for the info...

I tore my case apart and discovered that the rear fan was completely dead, and the front air filter was completely clogged with dust. I have remedied both and set the AIO to "extreme" in ICUE and while the temps are still high, the system is now stable again. I have ordered a non-aio cooler (NH-D15) so that I can visually see it working. And also ordered Noctua fans to replace the original case fans. I also set the icue to change keyboard colors to red when temps are high as an easy visual cue. I will report what the temps are with the new setup when it arrives in a few days...

Thanks for the info!
 
Apr 19, 2021
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Ok, I replaced all stock case fans with noctua, and the corsair aio with the noctua NH-D15 with both fans installed. I noticed no temp difference at all. Although I will say that you can tell a major quality difference between noctua and corsair.

I reduced the processor maximum state in power options and this immediately reduced temps to normal. I then set that back to 100, and lowered the overclock back to stock as suggested. Temps are way better now.

What exactly is going on here? Is the processor becoming damaged? When I run the intel diagnostic tool it says the processer is good. Is it time to replace this cpu? If it is being damaged, how? Temps have been fine until now. I'm not well versed on OCing. I know enough to be dangerous. I had the motherboard automatically manage voltage, which was around 1.34 at 4.8ghz. Now at 4.2ghz it is around 1.2v.

Thanks!
 

CompuTronix

Intel Master
Moderator
... I reduced the processor maximum state in power options and this immediately reduced temps to normal. I then set that back to 100, and lowered the overclock back to stock as suggested. Temps are way better now.

What exactly is going on here? Is the processor becoming damaged? ... If it is being damaged, how? Temps have been fine until now. I'm not well versed on OCing. I know enough to be dangerous. I had the motherboard automatically manage voltage, which was around 1.34 at 4.8ghz. Now at 4.2ghz it is around 1.2v ...
No, your processor is not becoming damaged. 1.34 Vcore is certainly well within the maximum recommended Vcore, which is 1.4 volts, so it's highly unlikely that Vcore is the issue. Pay close attention to package power consumption (Watts) in Hardware Info (HWiNFO) during your highest Core temperatures and heaviest workloads. Although the 7700K is a 95 Watt TDP processor, at your overclock settings running a 100% workload, power consumption should reach a maximum of about 125 Watts. Keep in mind that workload drives power consumption which drives Core temperatures.

Concerning Vcore, one size does not fit all. Each Microarchitecture has a “Maximum Recommended Vcore”. For example, it’s important to point out that 22 nanometer 3rd and 4th Generation processors will not tolerate the higher Core voltages of other Microarchitectures.

Here's the Maximum Recommended Vcore per Microarchitecture from 14 to 65 nanometers since 2006:



Each Microarchitecture also has a "Degradation Curve". As a rule, CPUs are more susceptible to "Electromigration" and degradation with each Die-shrink. However, the exception to the rule is 14 nanometer Microarchitecture, where advances in FinFET transistor technology have improved voltage tolerance.

Here's how the Degradation Curves correspond to Maximum Recommended Vcore for 14 nanometer 5th through 10th Generation, which differs from 22 nanometer 3rd and 4th Generation:



As shown above, if you look very closely at the brown curve for 14 nanometer processors, which includes your 7700K, Vcore above 1.425, which agrees with Intel's own Lab Test Engineers (see paragraphs 8, 9 & 10), can cause degradation over time due to "VT shift". Degradation Curves are directly related to the term “Vt (Voltage threshold) Shift” which is expressed in millivolts (mv). Users can not monitor Vt Shift. With respect to overclocking and overvolting, Vt Shift basically represents the potential for permanent loss of normal transistor performance. Excessively high Core voltage drives excessively high Power consumption and Core temperatures, all of which contribute to gradual Vt Shift over time. Core voltages that impose high Vt Shift values are not recommended.

For a safety margin, this is why we recommend that 14 nanometer users should not exceed 1.4 volts. So as I said in my first sentence, your Vcore at 1.34 is well within the maximum recommended value for your 7700K. As such, it's highly unlikely that your Vcore was, or is, of any concern. However, it is not recommended to overclock using "Auto" Vcore BIOS settings or motherboard OC tuning features, as significantly more Vcore than necessary is applied to maintain stability, which needlessly increases Power and heat. It's instead highly recommended to use only "manual" Vcore in BIOS.

When the 7700K was launched in the first quarter of 2017, many articles were written that underscored problems with high Core temperatures, just as when the 3770K was launched in the 2nd quarter of 2012. As I mentioned in my first post, since the 7700K is not a "soldered" processor, it instead uses "paste" between the Die and the IHS (Integrated Heat Spreader) which unlike "Indium" solder, loses its thermal bond to the Die over time.

More specifically, the TIM (Thermal Interface Material) that Intel used on 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th Generation mainstream processors is a paste which, compared to Indium solder, has relatively poor thermal conductivity, and dries over time due to thermal cycling to the consistency of "chalk". So it's not unusual at all for older processors to experience increasingly higher Core temperatures.

The easiest solution is to manually decrease Vcore and frequency in BIOS, which decreases power consumption, and thus Core temperatures. Most overclocking Guides explain how to use manual Vcore settings. Alternatively, "delidding" your processor typically decreases Core temperatures by up to 20°C. Delidding replaces Intel's TIM with "liquid metal" which instead provides good thermal conductivity similar to previous generations of soldered processors.

You can purchase a delidding tool to safely do the job yourself, or you can send your CPU to a company called "Silicon Lottery" who provides professional delidding services. Either solution will cost around $50 USD. For a minimal upcharge, in addition to delidding, you also can have Silicon Lottery “bin" your processor, which will reveal its best overclock frequency and Core voltage settings.

Click on the link in my signature and read Section 9 - The TIM Problem. Also see the previous Section 8 - Overclocking and Voltage.

CT :sol:
 

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