Question CPU upgrade

[amanoo]

Budget (including currency): €700 (stretchable, but I'd prefer not to dip into my reserves unless there's a compelling reason)
Country: Netherlands
Games, programs or workloads that it will be used for: Mostly gaming. Some CAD (Onshape). Occasional software compilation. Maybe PS3 emulation. Games can vary, whatever catches my fancy. I'll probably start Cyberpunk 2077 one of these days. I'll definitely play Spider-Man Miles Morales. DotA2 as well. People are trying to convince me to try Overwatch 2. Cities Skylines. If it's good I may play it. I'm a little less inclined towards shooters, though if they're good I might give them a try.

Other details

My current system is as follows:

• Core i7 7700K
• Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK32GX4M2D3600C18
• Rx 6900XT
• MSI Z270I Gaming Pro Carbon AC
• Cooler Master NR200

You can probably tell that a 7700K and a 6900XT make for a very lop-sided combination. And yes, there have been games such as DotA2 in which my framerate hasn't changed a bit after I got the Rx6900XT. In my defence, it only cost me 400 euros. But when you have a 144Hz Freesync/180Hz no Freesync monitor (1440P), you'd like some performance of at least 144Hz in lighter games like Dota. And having a CPU that matches very high specs in Spider-Man Miles Morales would also be nice, when I have a GPU that already matches that. My choice of RAM is also a little weird, but I guess I decided slow RAM wasn't much cheaper anyway at the time, so I just went with 3600.

I've been thinking of upgrading earlier this week, almost decided to bite the bullet, and only yesterday found out that 13th gen was even coming. Earlier, I was thinking of upgrading to a 12400F. Now I'm thinking of upgrading to a 13600KF. Nothing against AMD either, though Intel seems very compelling right now.

I'm mostly considering these two options
DDR4 build:

• Intel Core i5-13600KF € 369,99
• ASRock B660M-ITX/ac € 150,21
• Scythe Fuma 2 Rev. B € 66,89
• Corsair Vengeance LPX CMK32GX4M2D3600C18 €0, already got it
• Price including shipping: ~595

DDR5 build:

• Intel Core i5-13600KF € 369,99
• ASUS ROG Strix B660-I Gaming WiFi € 217,60
• Scythe Fuma 2 Rev. B € 66,89
• Corsair Vengeance CMK32GX5M2B5600C36 € 189
• Sale of current RAM: €60+ off
• Price including shipping: ~800

Current concerns with the DDR4 build: no DDR5, so I might be leaving performance on the table. Although the LTT review as well as a few others seem to imply that it's a tiny difference. Motherboard BIOS may need to be updated and I'm not sure if I can do that without a fitting CPU, I might have to pay 15 or 20 euros extra to have a store update it if they don't have a recent unit, there is one that offers that service. And I've heard some rumblings about the VRMs of the ASRock board not being good enough for that CPU. It needs to be an ITX board though, and there are few ITX socket 1700 boards available.

DDR5 build would address most of those concerns. Asus ROG can be updated without a CPU present. DDR5 so no concerns there either. Not sure if the VRMs are good enough or not. But I'm really stretching my budget here. I'm already counting on the sale of my current motherboard, CPU, and cooler as part of my budget.

12400F or AMD could also be options, but the 13600KF does seem compelling.

 

[Lafong]

If a micro ATX B660 board is acceptable, I'd at least look at the DDR 5 offerings from Gigabyte and MSI. Like the Aorus line from Gigabyte and the Mortar from MSI.

Not sure how many of them can update BIOS without CPU.

I'd agree on the 13600k and DDR 5 if budget allows. If forced, I'd accept DDR 4 with 13600k rather than drop CPU back to 12th generation.

 

[domjam]

i dont think you can update the bios on any board lower then Z690. for 13th gen

 

[ohio_buckeye]

Have a look here.

View: https://youtu.be/3zcCX7yyiz4


At one point towards the end he says that ddr4 didn’t really lose much performance so you could possibly reuse your old ddr4 if you needed to save some cash.

 

[amanoo]

@Lafong I have an NR200 case, so micro ATX almost certainly won't do. Maaaybe if it's a particularly short board, say 244mm x 226mm, or 3 PCIe slots. But I haven't found any.

I've looked into DDR4 ITX boards some more, but a lot appear to be rather <Mod Edit>. All the cheaper options have power limits apparently. The more expensive models are so expensive that DDR5 is only a small markup at that point. Paying 250 on a B660 is not great. And even those boards tend to have weird choices. DDR5 boards don't have the same weird restraints.

 

[Lafong]

@Lafong I have an NR200 case, so micro ATX almost certainly won't do. Maaaybe if it's a particularly short board, say 244mm x 226mm, or 3 PCIe slots. But I haven't found any.

I've looked into DDR4 ITX boards some more, but a lot appear to be rather <Mod Edit>. All the cheaper options have power limits apparently. The more expensive models are so expensive that DDR5 is only a small markup at that point. Paying 250 on a B660 is not great. And even those boards tend to have weird choices. DDR5 boards don't have the same weird restraints.

OK..

I frankly did not catch that you were looking at ITX boards.

I assume that is due to limited space. I looked at ITX a couple of years ago myself and gave up on it due to too many compromises and limitations.

I gather you've been through all of that and cannot give up on ITX and buy a somewhat larger case that will accept most mATX boards.

Shopping for mATX cases can be a major pain. The last I checked most so-called mATX cases were mid towers nearly as large as standard ATX....unless you wanted to go with one of those "cube" cases that are just too cramped unless you absolutely cannot go larger.

 

[amanoo]

@Lafong Yeah, been there, done that. My first ITX build had way too little airflow, and I had to get a reference GTX780 since it has a blower design, just to keep it from thermal throttling. The NR200 is a pretty decent case. Just big enough to do almost anything you want in it (except am RTX4090, that's not going to work out), big CPU tower cooler, and have lots of fans. But as small as it can be while doing all of that. It's a very well designed case.

I wanted a case that I can take with me on my bike when there's a LAN party. Not been a lot of those in recent years though. But I do like having this case. I suppose I could get a larger case but I'd have to completely abandon all of that.

Edit: actually, you know what. I just found the Inter-Tech IM-1 Pocket online. It's basically my case but 10% bigger and fits mATX. Might be a good replacement. Maybe I will go with mATX after all. If I drop down to DDR4, it might pan out to be cheaper even with a new case.