Question CPU vs GPU where is money better spent for gaming

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kiwis

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So I'm looking at an AMD Ryzen 3700X CPU and a GTX 1660TI GPU. I'm a casual gamer who likes good graphics but also do a bit of hobbyist web development.

My question is, is my CPU too strong and should I wind this back to a 2700X for example and get a better GPU.

What is my balance right? Together the price is about right for my budget.
 

thekillerx10

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https://www.videocardbenchmark.net/...0-SUPER-vs-Radeon-RX-5700-XT/4045vs4117vs4111

It's an extra $100+ and I don't really see much of an improvement for the extra money.



600W currently, will be using my current one so I can spend that money elsewhere for now but will upgrade in due course.
wdym but spending extra 100$ 600w psu is enough for 5700 xt if it is a good quality one
the 5700 xt is cheaper than 2060 super and better

were you planning to get a 1660 ti or 2060 super?
 
Ignore this. It's patently false.
I'd have to disagree, but I do agree that it would need a some qualification not to be.

Of course it depends on the CPU's in question but for many, if not most, of the more popular modern CPU's being bought for gaming today (almost any Ryzen 3000, Intel 9700/9900) it's pretty much true especially when the second qualification is also true: for high-resolution (1440P+) gaming where it's almost all on the GPU (short of the lofty and revered and equally rare to most of us peons 2080ti).

I think most 'experts' consider any Intel i3 or i5 and many lower i7 processors as irrelevant for gaming in todays market, at least when 'performance' is in question.
 
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4745454b

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Of course the CPU matters, or AMD would have never bothered canning FX "dozer" CPUs. From our review of the 8350.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-8350-vishera-review,3328-14.html

aqBQxPRFrRdjtWHRJffSAn-650-80.png


At 1080 all AMD CPUs are behind Intel ones. Worse, the old Ph II 980 with a tiny 100MHz clock speed advantage outscores the newer 8150 due to it's better IPC. If the CPU didn't matter then they would all be equal.

n42XAUmYVi2Z5rNbeECG9D-650-80.png


Ph II obviously has a problem in this game as none of them go past 60FPS. Dozer does a bit better, but still can't crack 90FPS like Intel does. CPU matters for gaming. You can't just slap any CPU into a gaming machine and expect it to work great. You do need a good CPU if you want to have a good gaming experience.
 
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Rogue Leader

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Come one, consider the context of OP's question try to be helpful to him: he's looking at modern CPU's, not the old stuff.

The data above is as relevant today as it was years ago. There are still these types of differences.

However in gaming the difference between a 2700X and a 3700X is likely minimal. But the fact remains the blanket statement of "the CPU doesn't matter" is still patently false.
 
The data above is as relevant today as it was years ago. There are still these types of differences.

However in gaming the difference between a 2700X and a 3700X is likely minimal. But the fact remains the blanket statement of "the CPU doesn't matter" is still patently false.
If you read what I wrote I don't disagree by saying it's right...but to replace one blanket statement with another is equally wrong. You have to qualify the statement and the best way to qualify it is in the context of the OP's question because he's interested in buying a modern processor, not an antique. So trotting old, irrelevant comparisons isn't going to help him in the least.

Move the discussion forward by helping him understand his choices.
 

Rogue Leader

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If you read what I wrote I don't disagree by saying it's right...but to replace one blanket statement with another is equally wrong. You have to qualify the statement and the best way to qualify it is in the context of the OP's question because he's interested in buying a modern processor, not an antique. So trotting old, irrelevant comparisons isn't going to help him in the least.

Move the discussion forward by helping him understand his choices.

The post reply it was to was trotting out "eBay 10 core processors" as an option, meaning old decommissioned Xeon processors and servers that a certain contingent swears games as fast as a 9900k which we all know isn't true.

Either way I agree we are going off into the woods at this point and off of the OP's question.

I believe at this point he was deciding between the 3600, 3600X, and 3700X. I agree with what Darkbreeze was saying, the 3600 and 3600X are not "the same with a small overclock" the 3600X is clocked higher because its binned higher. Sure you MIGHT be able to get the 3600 to clock the same, but you'll need a better cooler, and maybe a better board, who knows. Some have been successful in this, many have not as AMD Ryzen processors tend to not be overclock friendly. I wouldn't buy a 3600 on the bet that I can overclock it to 3600X levels or beyond. Just get the better binned chip and be done with it.
 

thekillerx10

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The data above is as relevant today as it was years ago. There are still these types of differences.

However in gaming the difference between a 2700X and a 3700X is likely minimal. But the fact remains the blanket statement of "the CPU doesn't matter" is still patently false.
the difference between 1700x and 2700x is the minimal but 2700x and 3700x there is 15 fps difference, zen 2 have got a better ipc than zen 1 (1st and 2nd gen ryzen)
even a 3600 outperform a 2700x, but 2700x better in rendering,aftereffect and multi tasking, because of 2 more cores and 4 more threads
 

Rogue Leader

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the difference between 1700x and 2700x is the minimal but 2700x and 3700x there is 15 fps difference, zen 2 have got a better ipc than zen 1 (1st and 2nd gen ryzen)
even a 3600 outperform a 2700x, but 2700x better in rendering,aftereffect and multi tasking, because of 2 more cores and 4 more threads

Yeah thats not true. If you get your info from Userbenchmark toss it in the trash that site is worthless. The 2700X is faster than even the 1800X in gaming. 2700X vs 3700X, is NOT a 15fps difference. Theres a couple of games where it may hit 15fps like Battlefield V, but if you average out most games its minimal, 5 fps or so. Zen 2 does have better IPC, but as of right now the IPC of the old and new processors is keeping up with current games and not dragging FPS back as much. Maybe with some newer games in the coming years that may change, or it may take years for that to happen.

For the record I have gaming systems with a 1800X and a 3700X literally right in front of me.

Rendering is irrelevant to this conversation per the OPs question.
 
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thekillerx10

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Yeah thats not true. If you get your info from Userbenchmark toss it in the trash that site is worthless. The 2700X is faster than even the 1800X in gaming. 2700X vs 3700X, is NOT a 15fps difference. Theres a couple of games where it may hit 15fps like Battlefield V, but if you average out most games its minimal, 5 fps or so. Zen 2 does have better IPC, but as of right now the IPC of the old and new processors is keeping up with current games and not dragging FPS back as much. Maybe with some newer games in the coming years that may change, or it may take years for that to happen.

For the record I have gaming systems with a 1800X and a 3700X literally right in front of me.

Rendering is irrelevant to this conversation per the OPs question.
i didn't get my data from userbenchmark ik it is trash you're right about 2700x is better than 1700x by like 10-15 fps 1st gen ryzen aren't that good but 2700x and 3700x average games is 8-13 fps difference
as you can see here:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2PcJeBhT2cI&t=135s
 

Rogue Leader

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i didn't get my data from userbenchmark ik it is trash you're right about 2700x is better than 1700x by like 10-15 fps 1st gen ryzen aren't that good but 2700x and 3700x average games is 8-13 fps difference
as you can see here:

We can quote tests till we are blue in the face. I've seen plenty of tests from reputable sources where it is less. The point is its a minimal difference and the average is NOT 15. For it to be 15 then most of the differences would need to be at or above 15, and rarely do they even touch 15.

Once you are over 60fps, and especially when you get around 80-100, 8 fps makes no visible difference, certainly not worth the $150 + price difference these days between the 3700X and the 2700X if the person buying it is concerned about price. Until all the 2700X's are sold out of the market it will be the best gaming value.
 

OllympianGamer

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We can quote tests till we are blue in the face. I've seen plenty of tests from reputable sources where it is less. The point is its a minimal difference and the average is NOT 15. For it to be 15 then most of the differences would need to be at or above 15, and rarely do they even touch 15.

Once you are over 60fps, and especially when you get around 80-100, 8 fps makes no visible difference, certainly not worth the $150 + price difference these days between the 3700X and the 2700X if the person buying it is concerned about price. Until all the 2700X's are sold out of the market it will be the best gaming value.
I agree with what you are saying but in that case the 2600 is only $119, which has got to be unbeatable in value. I ran one for 6 months with no issues at all with any game I played.
 
Come one, consider the context of OP's question try to be helpful to him: he's looking at modern CPU's, not the old stuff.
Doesn't matter. When you say "CPU doesn't matter for gaming", expect to get canned. Period. It matters. If it didn't matter, there wouldn't be a frequency, core count or IPC battle at any level and aside from professional usage, probably no reason for ANY company to worry about advancements in design. It matters. Now, if you're looking for only 60fps and have a graphics card that is more than capable enough for that at your desired settings, then it matters LESS for sure, but these days, most people are looking for something closer to 144fps because the majority of gaming monitors are 144hz now.

What most people have right now, are probably not, but if and when they buy a new one, the almost certainly WILL be.
 
Doesn't matter. When you say "CPU doesn't matter for gaming", expect to get canned. Period....

Then why not do it more intelligently and thoughtfully than the post that prompted it. Don't just say ignore it, that kind of exchange is just an invite to a flame war.

I see far more thoughtful corrections of such blatant generalizations on Reddit. That's pretty darn sad.
 
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It is worth pointing out that at least at this time, they intend on gaming on a 60Hz display, so framerates far in excess of 60 frames per second are not going to make much of a difference. So, for their current usage scenario, I would kind of agree with the suggestion that in nearly all current titles, the CPU probably won't matter all that much as far as gaming performance is concerned, so long as it is a modern processor with enough threads (quad-cores or old Xeons are probably are not going to be ideal). When comparing examples of one CPU pushing 10-15 fps more than another, these examples are typically in the 100+fps range, only really relevant to those with high refresh rate screens, and even then, it's probably going to be hard to notice a 10% difference when frame rates are already that high.

And of course, benchmarks showing that amount of difference are using a notably higher-end graphics card like a 2080 or 2080 Ti at 1080p. With a 2060 SUPER at 1080p, frame rates should be roughly similar to running a 2080 SUPER at 1440p, where again, CPU performance tends to make even less of a difference. Maybe something like Flight Simulator 2020 will push CPUs more to their limits though, as those kinds of simulations tend to be rather demanding on the CPU, but it's hard to say exactly how it will perform at this point.

That's wrong. They are not the same CPU with "some overclock". They are completely different pieces of silicon. By your assessment, every CPU in the Ryzen 3000 family would be the "same CPU with some overclock" or "some extra cores". And that's really not accurate. There are a variety of different considerations from one model to the next, but I don't have time to get into that part of the discussion here.

The cost of the two is almost identical. There is a 40 dollar difference. If you want to overclock the 3600 to get the same performance as the 3600x you are going to spend MORE for adequate case and CPU cooling that the 40 bucks difference between those two CPUs AND there are no guarantees you'll even manage to get a satisfactory overclock because overclocking on R3 is mostly a no go because they are binned almost without any available headroom to do so. So without a piece of silicon able to achieve what the 3600x does in it's stock or PBO configuration, you are unlikely to be able to do so without paying some penalty. Just not worth it to save forty bucks. A good CPU cooler costs more than that.
The 3600 and 3600X are pretty much the same processor, just the chips in the 3600X are better binned to push slightly higher clock rates, and the processor comes with a larger cooler. While an overclocked 3600X can still be slightly faster than an overclocked 3600 due to the better binning, ultimately none of it really matters much since the two processors perform within a few percent of one another at most, whether overclocked or at stock settings, and neither offers much overclocking headroom. No one is going to perceive a noticeable performance difference between a 3600 and a 3600X at any task. Just look at any 3600 review. In games, or any other application, their performance is almost identical to one another. For nearly-identical performance, that $40+ USD (or $70+ NZD) price difference becomes a bit more questionable. The 3600X does have a larger stock cooler, but in my opinion it might be better to spend that money on an aftermarket tower cooler that will run the processor cooler and quieter than either stock option.

So if I was to go above the 2060Super and "future proof" for upcoming games, what would be the go-to card now?

Unlikely to do this but curious on the price difference.

And I realise you can't really future proof in tech specs as it's constantly improving, it's just a saying. Please let's not overthink that one :)
One problem with buying a higher-end card for "future proofing" now is that it's likely games will be making heavier use of raytraced lighting effects in the coming years (at least for "ultra" graphics settings), and while the 20-series cards have hardware to support raytracing acceleration, they don't exactly perform all that well at it, and I suspect future cards will handle these effects a lot better. So, down the line, you may end up wanting a newer card with better support for features like raytracing anyway. As for what the next options up would be, a 2070 is only around 5% faster, and a 2070 SUPER around 15-20% faster than a 2060 SUPER.
 
Quad cores and old Xeons ARE CPUs, and we have members from all over the world, in many cases, in regions where access to hardware might be limited, so in fact, "choice of CPU "does" matter". To assume everybody has access to the same options and availability, as a blanket concept, is to intentionally ignore reality.

Worry about future hardware is ALWAYS a carrot and stick affair. Worry about what's available now, and what's available now that will do fine with the needs of the OP has already been well documented. I don't think it really requires a full community conversation to determine that.

You'd get no arguments about a better cooler from me, because I'm always in favor of that for practically any system, to a degree, but again I don't believe it's as simple as the 3600x being the same piece of silicone that is priced higher, clocked higher and comes with better cooler, because if that were true they'd make all the 3600's into 3600x's. Some silicon is just better than others, and being able to get a few hundred mhz better performance for 40 bucks seems like a steal compared to what we know people will spend on aftermarket cooling and accessories just to get the same kinds of gains.