News Crimping Might Have Prevented RTX 4090 Adapter Meltdown: Report

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Except as others have noted, the connectors are melting at the end, not where the solder joints are. This suggests that the solder joints are not where the excessive heat is being produced. The most promising theory I've seen is that the barrel connectors inside nVidia's power adapter plug are split along both the top and bottom so there's no structural support horizontally, allowing them to easily loosen up, resulting in poor electrical contact.

If you read reports they are melting at the end because the connection is causing bad contact on some pins causing others to overload
 
Nvidia sure turned that knob up to 11, didn't they? A $1600-2000 product hosed by a badly soldered cable.
Except all attempts at reproducing the problem so far have failed to nail it to any of the probable causes currently known or even combinations of two. Since no single cause or even combination of two causes could duplicate the result so far, either an adapter with a combination of 3+ flaws is required, there is some other factor yet to be identified or possibly as Curmudgeon put it, some if not most of the reports may be hoaxes.
 
Except all attempts at reproducing the problem so far have failed to nail it to any of the probable causes currently known or even combinations of two. Since no single cause or even combination of two causes could duplicate the result so far, either an adapter with a combination of 3+ flaws is required, there is some other factor yet to be identified or possibly as Curmudgeon put it, some if not most of the reports may be hoaxes.
Or like Steve from GN put it, there could have been running design changes during manufacturing and nobody was notified of them.

He noticed that the Adapter cables that Igor had in his hands were rated for 150V on the 14-AWG copper wires.
The ones that Steve from GN had were rated for 300V on the 14-AWG copper wires.

Igor's Adapter had 6x Small Terminal Bars with 2x 14-AWG copper wires split between 2x Terminal Bars, while 2x 14-AWG copper wires were directly attached to individual Terminal Bars.
Steve's had 2x large/wide Terminal Bars with a pair of 14-AWG copper wires soldered to each of them.

There's some fundamental design changes going on that the end user aren't being informed of or early design batches got released to the customer before newer revisions got handed out.
 
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The salient fact for me is that nVidia knew this could happen, as their own pre-shipping testing saw it. They even produced a video of it. I doubt Nvidia was hoaxing itself. This simply should not happen, at all, in a $1600 GPU (or any GPU, of course, but especially one at that price point.) I think that the design requiring either an adapter or an ATX3.0 PSU was ill-construed. ATX2.0 1200-Watt PSUs already exist, etc.
 
Low? Lead-free solder melts at 235C. The connector and PVC wire insulation will be a smouldering mess long before the solder's melting point becomes a concern. The "low" melting point of lead-free solder is only a problem when your application is expected to hit 200+C under normal operating conditions.
Copper melts at 5 times that temp (1085 C) , so yes low. PVC is between 100 and 500 depending on modifiers and if you look at the failures I would say that "smoldering mess" is pretty correct here with cables burnt half of an inch back. Paralleling the load on that many conductors is just asking for a single point failure overloading the whole system. From what I have gathered bending the connection seems to be a big contributor. Do I think that 33 amps on a 16 ga marginal connector will melt solder (and plastic insulation too), ohhh yea. Crimps, while tinned are made of copper and shouldn't be any more failure prone due to heat than the conductor itself.
 
Seems like everyone ignores the ground wires. They matter also, for instance if one or two of the ground wires breaks then the return path to the power supply will try to go through the ground connections on the PCI-e connector which could also lead to some problems. We already know some of the return goes through the PCI-e connector which can be easily proven with a current clamp on both the hot and the ground leads and seeing they are different.

I don't understand why Nvidia just didn't use 12 wires and crimp them and just double up 2 of the 8 pin plugs It's just standard procedure to use crimp connections on stranded wire for power connectors because soldering them defeats the purpose of using stranded wire because it essentially makes it into a solid wire. Just look at a stranded wire soldered to a PCB, it always breaks at the solder joint
 
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Seems like everyone ignores the ground wires. They matter also, for instance if one or two of the ground wires breaks then the return path to the power supply will try to go through the ground connections on the PCI-e connector which could also lead to some problems.
Not really: each pin on the PCIe connector can take about 1A and there are about 70 total ground pins on there. You could cut off all cable grounds and possibly still might be fine. The IO bracket is connected to ground too, so another 10-20A could go through that too. Nobody is talking about the ground pins from a plug-melting perspective because there are so many alternate paths available for DC ground return. The only thing losing cable grounds might affect is the PSU's transient response due to increased wiring stray inductance - fast signals (transients) follow the path of least inductance.

Copper melts at 5 times that temp (1085 C) , so yes low. PVC is between 100 and 500 depending on modifiers and if you look at the failures I would say that "smoldering mess" is pretty correct here with cables burnt half of an inch back.
The wiring insulation is only rated for 105C, which means whatever you do, you cannot allow the temperature to get any hotter than that and that makes the 235C melting temperature of lead-free solder absolutely moot.
 
Having been an industrial electronics/electrical technician for over twenty years I can say there's multiple GENERAL issues with the way PSU cables are designed. First off, the IEC has been allowing 40 amps as a standard "limit" on 12VDC line far too long. Look up any Electrical engineering chart for cable length vs AWG vs ampacity and the shortest rated run is 8 AWG at 10ft max for 40 amperes. Now, I'm assuming most 12V rails don't normally get near half that (the 12VHPWR with six discreet 12V lines paired with six discreet ground plane lines could theoretically drive 12Vx6Cx40A=2.88kW. So by this standard even an overclocked to the tilt 4090 OC won't ever be drawing more than 10-15 amps on any given line at any given time for any prolonged period [12Vx6Cx10A=720W]) The issue much more like lies in the crimp quality of the intermediate connector pin from the 12V/Ground lines to the dongle receptacle. Again having worked with actual industrial state electrical systems I've seen more than a fair share of fizzle out molex-type (that is, the cable is crimped in to the boot of the pin and the mating side is barely holding on because it's either a double or triple split barrel type connector grasping a square pin. If the connection was soldered even with basic Pb37Sn63 which has a eutectic of 183 deg C, it would take considerably more amperes being driven through that connection (assuming the technician who did the solder job actually had the comprehension and patience to solder the wire to the platen did a good job) That junction will be able to tolerate at least a full order of magnitude greater degree of current going through it than ANY mere physically crimped wire - to barrel connector -to square pin Q.E.D.
 
Its possible that soldering could partly anneal the connector pins, reducing the contact force and raising the contact resistance.

Crimping - done properly with the correct dies, pressure and wire gauge - beats soldering, as it forms a gas tight, solid, single metal connection. Solder is a poor conductor compared to copper, but we get away with it because the amount between the copper pieces being joined is very thin, and large area.
 
Not really: each pin on the PCIe connector can take about 1A and there are about 70 total ground pins on there. You could cut off all cable grounds and possibly still might be fine. The IO bracket is connected to ground too, so another 10-20A could go through that too. Nobody is talking about the ground pins from a plug-melting perspective because there are so many alternate paths available for DC ground return. The only thing losing cable grounds might affect is the PSU's transient response due to increased wiring stray inductance - fast signals (transients) follow the path of least inductance.


The wiring insulation is only rated for 105C, which means whatever you do, you cannot allow the temperature to get any hotter than that and that makes the 235C melting temperature of lead-free solder absolutely moot.
Oh come on. 105c is the maximum field rated temp of the insulator in operation, not when it melts. That means that you can actually run it at 105c. Not that anyone in their right mind would. Beyond that point what does the smoke point of the PVC have anything to do with this case as it "is" clearly melted/burnt completely off of the wire one half inch + back on some of the conductors with oxidized copper showing? Which by the way copper oxidation happens at a temperature range of 200c -900c in normal atmospheric gasses. Prelim thermal imagery of the outside of the insulation and connector is in excess of 150C. That says nothing about conductor temp inside. Furthermore I am absolutely sure that nothing with this stuff is being "allowed" or happening within design specs. These things are burning themselves off of the card. All that I said is that a solder joint melts and fails at a very low temperature in contrast with a copper crimp connector. Which I still stand by. My personal preference on a high amp larger gauge connection is a crimp connector with dielectric paste regardless. It handles flexing better and you don't have cold joint/fluxing issues when you make it up. On the other hand I would be absolutely lying to say that I know what is causing this failure. All I can see is that the several of the pins on the connector overheated, melted the insulation, zapped a couple of pins and ultimately failed. It also looks like soldered conductors were coming off of the connector in some cases which either indicates mechanically cracking or melting and release of the joint.
 
Oh come on. 105c is the maximum field rated temp of the insulator in operation, not when it melts.
It may not melt but prolonged exposure will still accelerate its degradation, release volatile compounds and become brittle given enough time. That is why places where wiring is expected to get exposed to temperatures above 90C on a regular basis usually replace the insulation with fiberglass sleeves or use silicone instead of PVC.
 
Nvidia doesn't get to one-sidedly dictate what plugs its GPUs use, PSU manufacturers need to be on-board with whatever gets picked too and the PCI-SIG along with Intel's ATX spec also get a say in it.

The funniest thing about all of these failures is that nobody who has tried reproducing the melting connector issue has succeeded yet, which means that the melting connector problem is not caused by two wires breaking off from the connector, not caused by the connectors not being quite fully plugged in, not caused by any abuse within reason at least not within the testing period where connectors are allowed to reach whatever steady-state temperature they are going to reach under full load.

Since the problem cannot be pegged on any obvious combination of probable causes, we appear to be in uncommon manufacturing defect territory.

I always hated the "old" plastic plugs used inside the PC . hard to plug/unplug and uses cheap plastic that melts easily .

just use metal rotary industrial plugs they wont melt easily , can take high temps before melting , they plug/unplug easy ... they also look better with a huge GPU card .
 
just use metal rotary industrial plugs they wont melt easily , can take high temps before melting , they plug/unplug easy ... they also look better with a huge GPU card .
Most PC buyers don't want to spend $50 per connector and in-cabinet wiring doesn't need gorilla-proof connectors since the 500lbs gorillas hardly ever come inside the housing. It would be a grossly undue burden for 99.9% of people.