Cruel Reality of FX.

[jmecor]

this has been now all over the net, I'll post some links, but I think it says enough, if I tell you that in HL2, R9600 Pro beats FX5900 Ultra with full precision with nearly 20 FPS's, FX's though do have special NV3x path in it, which lowers the shader precisions, but still R9600 Pro is a bit faster than FX5900 Ultra, or pretty even with it (neverminding the fact that when using NV3x, it gives worse IQ than full precision)

<A HREF="http://anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1862" target="_new">http://anandtech.com/showdoc.html?i=1862</A>
<A HREF="http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.p/]hp?t=7826" target="_new">http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.p/]hp?t=7826</A>
<A HREF="http://www.gamersdepot.com/interviews/gabe/001.htm" target="_new">http://www.gamersdepot.com/interviews/gabe/001.htm</A>
<A HREF="http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1261768,00.asp" target="_new">http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,1261768,00.asp</A>


<font color=red>If your nose <b>RUNS</b>, and feet <b>SMELL</b>.
Then you must be born <b>UPSIDE DOWN</b>.</font color=red>

 

[dhlucke]

ROFLMAO!

____________________
<A HREF="http://skulls.sytes.net/tom/" target="_new">http://skulls.sytes.net/tom/</A>

 

[ufo_warviper]

Phew! Another HL2 thread. Welcome aboard jmecore, all of these HL2 threads are GREAT even though they cover the same topic. If I didn't know any better, I would say that I'm visiting Planet Half-Life forums right now

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

 

[spud]

Sniff Sniff why me!!! *spud cries some more*

-Jeremy

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k1=6940439" target="_new">Busting Sh@t Up!!!</A>
<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=1228088" target="_new">Busting More Sh@t Up!!!</A>

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Two more links.

My Fav. (postd many a time already);

<A HREF="http://www.tech-report.com/etc/2003q3/valve/index.x?pg=1" target="_new">http://www.tech-report.com/etc/2003q3/valve/index.x?pg=1</A>

And their OWN benchmarks;

<A HREF="http://www.tech-report.com/etc/2003q3/hl2bench/index.x?pg=1" target="_new">http://www.tech-report.com/etc/2003q3/hl2bench/index.x?pg=1</A>

Then there's [H]ard|OCP's article;

<A HREF="http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTE5" target="_new">http://www.hardocp.com/article.html?art=NTE5</A>



- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[sargeduck]

You know what the FUNNIEST thing is??? How much does the fx 5900 Ultra cost? How much does the 9600 Pro cost? got those two prices? Now look at the performance. Even when the fx 5900 uses it's "mixed mode" the 9600 Pro still beats it!! for how many hundreds of dollars less?

As each day goes by, I hug my 9600Pro just a little tighter.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

And forget that, just look at the fact that in most places the FX5900U (and even many non-U) STILL sells for much more than and R9800Pro. That too is ridiculous. I know you are using the HL2 comparison, but just think, even when folding in DX8 performance in other games, WTF? Defintely not worth a penny more anywhere. Expect a discount/rebate program if sales fall because of this. Thought that really won't help people who are aware of the flaws. I expect to see alot of 'WTF my FX5900U is getting XFPS in X game' over then next few months. Maybe we should compose a form-letter thread/post to reply to them already.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK

 

[ufo_warviper]

I expect to see alot of 'WTF my FX5900U is getting XFPS in X game' over then next few months.

Oh boy! That will be the day. I bet nVidia was well aware that the FX cards were going to experience major Pixel Shader 2.0 issues well before these cards shipped. Nvidia knew the only benchmarks available publicly were DX8 based. They cheated on the particular ones that they "had to". THe attractive performance that these cards offered in DX8 was like a baited hook waiting for the byte. Nvidia did get LOTS of bytes with their deceptive senile plan! They lured the customer, and reeled him in for the purchase. And when it comes time for DX9 games the "fish" will be butchered in their performance. I am beginning to beleive that Nvidia willingly and knowingly betrayed their customer. They knew ATi was cheaper, and they knew ATi was better, I am <font color=red><b>RED HOT MADD!</font color=red></b>

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

 

[eden]

Methinks we SHOULD prepare a reply-template post that explains, to each n00b coming here complaining, the timelines of what happened recently to learn how his card is Effed up badly and the competition is winning.

We'll be seeing a lot of Ebay hits for FX5600 and FX5200s when we type in them cards there. :lol:

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>Are you ugly and looking into showing your mug? Then the THGC Album is the right place for you!</b></font color=blue></A>

 

[ufo_warviper]

Right. That way we don't have to redundantly retype basically the same information each time a noob comes by asking about Nvidia DX9 performance. We just save the template in word and do a simple cut-and-paste operation.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

 

[coolsquirtle]

why you? hmm i donno

WHY ME?!?!?!?!?!
now Intel just told me the CPU is not RMA able..... i just spent 250$ CAD on something i haven't even used yet. Of course i'm fighting for the right of RMA~~and the online store i bought the CPU from say they'll see what they can do. Soooo let's hope everything turns out well, or i'm SCREWED >< oh and not to mention my video card is on back order due from next month

F***!!!!

Proud Owner the Block Heater
120% nVidia Fanboy
PROUD OWNER OF THE GEFORCE FX 5900ULTRA <-- I wish this was me
I'd get a nVidia GeForce FX 5900Ultra... if THEY WOULD CHANGE THAT #()#@ HSF

 

[HardWareBoss]

Their new 50 Det no big improvement so far.

 

[ufo_warviper]

OMFG! THis is unbeleivable CS! You need to try walking under ladders less often d00d!

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

 

[coolsquirtle]

i know~~ this is really f***ed up right now, i have a 875P NEO and 512 PC3500 ram waiting to be used. Not to mention, how my parent are going to react to this "i told them the CPU was defective and i'm going to RMA it"

I dont have much hope over at Intel, they're a big company so they tend to " don't give a s***" to things that happen to costumers, soo i'll see what the online retailer can do > <, i'm so f***ing pissed off and depressed right now.

Just to let u know what happened. I installed my comp and it wouldn't post, i followed the manual's trouble shooting guide, and it told me to check the CPU, before u know it, two bend(smushed) pins, and i don't see how i can make it bend like that. both of them have been bend to one side and then to the other kind of like ">" but Intel said their product is "seal from external damages, and examined before packaged" so i'm pretty f***ed up~~~~ now i do admit i make mistakes, but i dont see how i could bend the pin like that. Also, if i do straighted up the pin, the CPU will still be busted right?

man it's not good~~~~ oh ya my Ti4200 is on "back-order" and they should receive a shipment early next month OH BOY

Proud Owner the Block Heater
120% nVidia Fanboy
PROUD OWNER OF THE GEFORCE FX 5900ULTRA <-- I wish this was me
I'd get a nVidia GeForce FX 5900Ultra... if THEY WOULD CHANGE THAT #()#@ HSF

 

[ufo_warviper]

IF the CPU shipped with bent pins, it probably didn't hurt it. But still, there is no reason for you to acfept paying full price for a product that had bent pins that you had to straighten. I've heard that there is a "pseudo-rule" that pins can be bent up to 3 times before snapping off. What is the specs on your dad's system? ANy Gaming capability WHATSOEVER?

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

 

[coolsquirtle]

sure my dad's system's playable

Athlon XP 2500+
1024mb OCZ PC2700 ram
ASUS Ti4200-8x 128mb
ASUS A7N8X Dlx

it's playable alright, except i want my comp

well UFO, why dont u tell that to Intel? i'll give u money if they listen to u > <

beside Intel said "ALL Intel Retail Box CPU's come sealed from the Intel factory. They are all scrupulously inspected before being sealed away in a plastic container to be protected from static charges and physical damage. These are not opened until it reaches the end-user. The only way for the pins to get bent is physical damage by the end user. Physical damage is not covered by warranty. The only way for the pins to get bent is improper installation or miscare in handling. The CPU's are not touched by human hands until the end-user opens the sealed box. We cannot RMA a product which is physically damaged."

i'm really screwed > <

Proud Owner the Block Heater
120% nVidia Fanboy
PROUD OWNER OF THE GEFORCE FX 5900ULTRA <-- I wish this was me
I'd get a nVidia GeForce FX 5900Ultra... if THEY WOULD CHANGE THAT #()#@ HSF

 

[ufo_warviper]

It is possible to straighten the pins with flat-nosed pliers and eyeballing down the matrix of the pins to make sure they are all in allignment like a good marching band. You must bend the pins back into place very slowly and very carefully. Take your time, because if you screw up, well then you have no hope.

My dad thinks that was very unreasonable of that company to not replace your CPU that was shipped damaged. Vendors seem to care more about selling products than keeping loyal customers these days. Who did you buy from? Whoever it was, NEVER buy there again.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

 

[eden]

When you buy Retail, it cannot be opened by the dealer in any way. It also can't possibly ship with bent pins. They seal the CPU with an airless wrapping so you have little space in there to bend. I think you did this. Besides, you know very well all modern CPU sockets are ZIF, so you shouldn't even need to push a bit to get it in or out. Also, you'll need to replace the paste if you reuse the same HSF and CPU!

Finally, go talk to Crashman, he knows a good bit about pin functioning and I believe there CAN be a fix.

Ignore Intel though, when you wanna deal with someone, deal with your dealer first, and make sure IT was caused by itself and not YOU. Warranty is just that, if it wasn't your fault.

--
<A HREF="http://www.lochel.com/THGC/album.html" target="_new"><font color=blue><b>Are you ugly and looking into showing your mug? Then the THGC Album is the right place for you!</b></font color=blue></A>

 

[coolsquirtle]

how can i convices them though~ anyways i'll PM crashman and ask him

Proud Owner the Block Heater
120% nVidia Fanboy
PROUD OWNER OF THE GEFORCE FX 5900ULTRA <-- I wish this was me
I'd get a nVidia GeForce FX 5900Ultra... if THEY WOULD CHANGE THAT #()#@ HSF

 

[coolsquirtle]

the two pins are "smushed" there is no way i can straighten them without ripping them out, that's why i think i didn't bent them. But the thing is i also believe Intel wouldn't have defectitive unit

Proud Owner the Block Heater
120% nVidia Fanboy
PROUD OWNER OF THE GEFORCE FX 5900ULTRA <-- I wish this was me
I'd get a nVidia GeForce FX 5900Ultra... if THEY WOULD CHANGE THAT #()#@ HSF

 

[kinney]

hehe, crappy intel.

Athlon 1700+, Epox 8RDA (NForce2), Maxtor Diamondmax Plus 9 80GB 8MB cache, 2x256mb Crucial PC2100 in Dual DDR, Radeon 9800NP, Audigy, Z560s, MX500

 

[ufo_warviper]

I wonder if the CPU was demaged before it was packaged. The CPU inspector must have been on a 3-liter moonshine or more!

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

 

[AthlonWarrior]

OK, So I bought a Gainward GeForce FX5900 Ultra/1600 XP Golden Sample with 256 MB DDR based on the review THG did on the FX 5900 Ultra a few months ago. Am I to understand that I got ripped off? I have always read THG on a daily basis and used it to choose many of the componets of the new system I just built. I would be very disappointed to find out I was lead astray by THG or that the review in question (FX, The way It Was Ment To Be Played) was based on faulty or incomplete data. I have read other reviews on other sites that claim the FX 5900 to be outragously fast, powerful and yes, outragously priced.

I should state that I am not a gamer and that I am intending to do a lot of digital video and still camera work as well as desktop publishing and graphics work.

Is the big "to do" all over gaming issues or will there be problems with applications work. I am just getting into the above subjects in a serious manner and I am now concerned I bought the wrong video card.

I thankyou for any usefull input.

Is it supposed to smoke like that? 8-D

 

[ufo_warviper]

Here's the deal:

When THG and everyone else did that review, there was only DirectX8 software available to benchmark cards. Your FX 5900 Ultra is screaming fast in DX8 titles like UT2K3. But when it comes to DirectX9, these cards slow to a halt, even though they are screaming fast in DX8. All of the FX cards are very slow at processing DX 9, ALL OF THEM. I'm really sorry to break it to you, I really am. Don't be upset with THG, they are a reliable site still. Its not THG's fault that there was nothing tobenchmark DX9. If you should be mad at anyone, be mad at Nvidia. They new your card had inadequate Pixel Shader 2.0 performance when their FABS manufactured your chip. They knew it, they had to have! Nvidia built these cards like a decoy dummy card that can do uber-fast DX8, but now that DX9 rolls around your toast. At that time, they were able to take advantage of the fact that their cards could barely get a lead in DX8 games back then. IN fact Tom said "you can safely say that the GeForce FX 5600 Ultra is the fastest card money can buy". Now that DX9 rolls around the corner, Nvidia opens Pandora's boxes and springs the giant mousetrap on their customers. I am furious at Nviia for deceiving their customers. FURIOUS!!!!!!!!!!!! I got bit too, but not as bad. I bought 3 Ti4200 cards just recently, and I was hoping to maybe get medium quality on HL2 but that won't be the case unless Detonator 50 does miracles.

Have any more questions feel free to ask them any time you wish.

My OS features preemptive multitasking, a fully interactive command line, & support for 640K of RAM!

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

Why did you buy an FX5900U-256mb for editing work??

If you are not a gamer it was a BIG waste of money and you would have been MUCH better off with a Parhelia at (and I can't believe I finally get to say thse words) a much lower price.

While the FX series has increased their 2D quality, the options offered by the Parhelia are very nice for someone willing to overpay for a ard (as you did with the FX5900U.
Not only did you overpay to get the 256mb version, you would have been equally well served in 2D apps with the FX5600 or even (shudder) the FX5200. As you state you are not a gamer (well do you play modern games at all?) then anything in the top o tha' line range was overkill. The Radeon R9100 would have been another good choice. The advantage of the Parhelia(s) is that theyhave the very best 2D quality around, and they are the masters of multi-head (likely known to you as nView), and their multi-monitor solution allows for 3 monitors (nice to have a utilities/tools scree, a preview screeen (or work space) and a final work screen. If you have any chance at all to return that card do so. Depending on your competence and res. levels you may be better served by much cheaper cards, and if money is no object then spend it well by buying the Parhelia. I think if you can get some money back and slip to a more 2D than gaming card then you could re-invest it else where. More HD space, more memory (improve process, render and filter time), more Flash Memory for digital cam, extra monitor, etc.

I would be very disappointed to find out I was lead astray by THG or that the review in question (FX, The way It Was Ment To Be Played) was based on faulty or incomplete data. I have read other reviews on other sites that claim the FX 5900 to be outragously fast, powerful and yes, outragously priced.

Seriosuly you were obviously reading GAME reviews. Sure it's Fast (but really how do you judge anymore with all these 'optimizations') but most if not all were refering to gaming performance, and 2D performance would have been a one paragraph blurbed, usually along the lines of a: the FX5900U like all others in the FX line has improved it's 2D image quality thanks to it's faster RAMDACs. or b: while the FX5900 and it's brethren have improved image quality they are only now coming in line with ATI and Matrox to whom many still use as the standard for 2D performance. You were not lead astray it was fast in the games of it's time. There were indicatins that there were issues all along (check any discussion we had bout it's ShadeMark scores, and it's 3Dmk03 performance, yet there wasn't really enough, to warrant any reviewer getting sued over it (as FutureMarke did when they stuck their nose out) by predicting, which is all it would have beenn, that the FX would do poorley in some DX9 tasks. Truely none of that should have mattered to you as a buyer of an editing platform, even now it is still only a concern to gamers. And if you based your purchase decision on just one source (THG), despite mentioning others, then you really need to do more research. I doubt that in the time I've been here I would've let a 2D/video picture editing question go by without responding in the way I did above (perhaps you got me on my holiday in May/June). You sholda checked here first or second IMO.
Unfortunately you have but 2 people to blame, nV for their 'optimized' antics, and yourself for buying a card well above your requirements.
However it's not that bad, you just have ALOT more power than you need for the most part, and spent more money than you needed too; but it will be more than up to the task, even when/if you switch to Longhorn (3D optimized version of Windows) in 2005.


- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp <i>(or internet account)</i> ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new"><font color=green>RED</font color=green> <font color=red>GREEN</font color=red></A> GA to SK