CUDA, PhysX Are Doomed Says AMD's Roy Taylor

[silverblue]

Let's hope AMD really is committed to its PC customers. I'm tired of not having choices. If AMD really commits to solving the multi-GPU issue, I will consider buying their tech again.

As for now, I've been using 3 generations of Nvidia SLI setups (580s, 680s, 780s) with no microstutter issues. It's no question to me that Nvidia is committed to its PC customers.

Let's not blow this too far out of proportion. AMD simply took too long to believe there was a micro-stuttering issue. It took some very dedicated investigations by tech sites and gamers to prove otherwise and hammer it home. At that point, they decided to do something about it. They also said that a new, significantly improved driver would be available on 31st July. Granted, it didn't fix everything, but the driver was only a day late. The issues aren't completely resolved, but in terms of single-monitor, DX10/11 CrossFireX (arguably the very thing that needed fixing first), there's been a significant improvement. Using a single, large monitor with CrossFireX now sounds like it'll be a lot more enjoyable.

They've got a long way to go, but at least they've started off down the road. Let's put it this way though - I won't be an AMD apologist, so if they fail to keep these improvements up then feel free to rag on them (I'll join you), though to be honest, as you're now using two 780s (nice), I'm not totally sure what difference it will make to you, especially over the short term - I'm sure they'll speed through any game released over the next three years, and AMD isn't exactly interested in large die GPUs anyway.

 

[Mousemonkey]

Let's hope AMD really is committed to its PC customers. I'm tired of not having choices. If AMD really commits to solving the multi-GPU issue, I will consider buying their tech again.

As for now, I've been using 3 generations of Nvidia SLI setups (580s, 680s, 780s) with no microstutter issues. It's no question to me that Nvidia is committed to its PC customers.

Let's not blow this too far out of proportion. AMD simply took too long to believe there was a micro-stuttering issue. It took some very dedicated investigations by tech sites and gamers to prove otherwise and hammer it home. At that point, they decided to do something about it. They also said that a new, significantly improved driver would be available on 31st July. Granted, it didn't fix everything, but the driver was only a day late. The issues aren't completely resolved, but in terms of single-monitor, DX10/11 CrossFireX (arguably the very thing that needed fixing first), there's been a significant improvement. Using a single, large monitor with CrossFireX now sounds like it'll be a lot more enjoyable.

They've got a long way to go, but at least they've started off down the road. Let's put it this way though - I won't be an AMD apologist, so if they fail to keep these improvements up then feel free to rag on them (I'll join you), though to be honest, as you're now using two 780s (nice), I'm not totally sure what difference it will make to you, especially over the short term - I'm sure they'll speed through any game released over the next three years, and AMD isn't exactly interested in large die GPUs anyway.

But the fact that their user base had been complaining about it for years seems to have escaped their notice, much like the complaints of GSOD's that AMD ignored until several tech site picked up on it and started to publish articles on the matter at which point AMD sparked into life and immediately blamed it on a Microsoft update to Windows! Later on it turns out that it may have had to with AMD's ULPS all along but I don't think AMD have ever openly admitted as much.

 

[dextermat]

I agree, the first time I saw physx I was impressed buy the game demo for it. But in real life, it's just a fps choker. Too bad the effort is there.

 

[Mousemonkey]

I agree, the first time I saw physx I was impressed buy the game demo for it. But in real life, it's just a fps choker. Too bad the effort is there.

It doesn't choke my fps in BL2.

 

[coolronz]

3DFX days all over again, when D3D came out proprietary eventually died... In a few years from now no one will care.... Long live OpenCL and OpenGL, hoping DirectX dies alongside PhysX too... But since M$ has its foot in the door with the new consoles, very unlikely in the foreseeable future.. 🙁

 

[SkateZilla]

I dont think the AMD Guy realizes, nVidia didnt invent PhysX Ageia did, nVidia bought them.

 

[hixbot]

If they're committed to the GPU and PC gamers, then why is the GPU market so stagnant this year. AMD hasn't release a new GPU in 2013 and Nvidia are just refreshing old GPUs. GPU performance per dollar hasn't significantly improved in almost 2 years. It seems like anti-competitive collusion to me. Speak all the "smack talk" you like, I'm not buying it.

 

[Mousemonkey]

And if they are so committed to PC gamers why do they give out invalid game codes and then refuse to respond via their support line?

 

[fulle]

PhysX is how Nvidia permanently lost me as a customer, after purchasing several desktop GPUs from them, and previously preferring their brand.

It's simple really. I had a card that supported PhysX, but upgraded to a competitor's GPU that was a better deal at the time. Then I realized that Nvidia disabled Physx on their card, which I paid good money for, because their drivers recognized a competitor's product.

Bam! And just like that, I decided to NEVER give them money again, EVER.

 

[InvalidError]

What is DSP?

Digital Signal Processor.

They are processors with extra (semi-)specialized resources to handle common signal processing algorithms like FFTs, QAM encoding/decoding and various other image/audio/telecom stuff... a bit like SSE on steroids.

If you have DSL internet, your modem has a DSP handling FFTs to encode/decode direct multi-tone modulation. If you have cable internet, the modem has a DSP handling QAM both ways. Your cellphone's radio has a DSP handling OFDM modulation. If you have LCD displays, the LCD likely has a DSP to handle on-screen display and image filtering/adjustments. Etc.

DSPs are just about everywhere. A lot of the time though, they are integrated into something else... CPUs, GPUs, microcontrollers, SoCs, RF PHY chips, etc.

 

[Mousemonkey]

PhysX is how Nvidia permanently lost me as a customer, after purchasing several desktop GPUs from them, and previously preferring their brand.

It's simple really. I had a card that supported PhysX, but upgraded to a competitor's GPU that was a better deal at the time. Then I realized that Nvidia disabled Physx on their card, which I paid good money for, because their drivers recognized a competitor's product.

Bam! And just like that, I decided to NEVER give them money again, EVER.

And their financial director has been in tears ever since I'll bet... NOT! :lol:

 

[fulle]

@Mousemonkey

Mock my comment all you want, but I'm not the only person where Nvidia's handling of Physx lost them customer rapport.

 

[silverblue]

Let's hope AMD really is committed to its PC customers. I'm tired of not having choices. If AMD really commits to solving the multi-GPU issue, I will consider buying their tech again.

As for now, I've been using 3 generations of Nvidia SLI setups (580s, 680s, 780s) with no microstutter issues. It's no question to me that Nvidia is committed to its PC customers.

Let's not blow this too far out of proportion. AMD simply took too long to believe there was a micro-stuttering issue. It took some very dedicated investigations by tech sites and gamers to prove otherwise and hammer it home. At that point, they decided to do something about it. They also said that a new, significantly improved driver would be available on 31st July. Granted, it didn't fix everything, but the driver was only a day late. The issues aren't completely resolved, but in terms of single-monitor, DX10/11 CrossFireX (arguably the very thing that needed fixing first), there's been a significant improvement. Using a single, large monitor with CrossFireX now sounds like it'll be a lot more enjoyable.

They've got a long way to go, but at least they've started off down the road. Let's put it this way though - I won't be an AMD apologist, so if they fail to keep these improvements up then feel free to rag on them (I'll join you), though to be honest, as you're now using two 780s (nice), I'm not totally sure what difference it will make to you, especially over the short term - I'm sure they'll speed through any game released over the next three years, and AMD isn't exactly interested in large die GPUs anyway.

But the fact that their user base had been complaining about it for years seems to have escaped their notice, much like the complaints of GSOD's that AMD ignored until several tech site picked up on it and started to publish articles on the matter at which point AMD sparked into life and immediately blamed it on a Microsoft update to Windows! Later on it turns out that it may have had to with AMD's ULPS all along but I don't think AMD have ever openly admitted as much.

At least now they've finally admitted there is a problem, they've set about fixing it. It's unacceptable that it should ever have happened, but at least unlike the NVIDIA bumpgate fiasco, AMD have held their hands up and admitted they were wrong.

 

[Mousemonkey]

@Mousemonkey

Mock my comment all you want, but I'm not the only person where Nvidia's handling of Physx lost them customer rapport.

Considering the amount of threads I've seen in the last few years from AMD/ATi users who want to know how to get PhysX to run on their rigs I don't think you and the "other persons" have had any real effect on Nvidia's finances or company as a whole, it was in 2009 that they shut the door on AMD and they don't seem to be near bankruptcy yet so what makes you think that they care whether you buy their cards or not?

 

[fulle]

Someone purchases a game, and they have features missing due to Nvidia proprietary BS, and that person asks questions about how to implement a hack that makes it work....

That's somehow is a scenario where you think Nvidia is wining a new customer. I think, however, that that person will be frustrated with Nvida for pushing propriety features in games, and like Nvidia less as a company. Turns out, people are less likely to give money to companies they dislike.

 

[Mousemonkey]

Someone purchases a game, and they have features missing due to Nvidia proprietary BS, and that person asks questions about how to implement a hack that makes it work....

That's somehow is a scenario where you think Nvidia is wining a new customer. I think, however, that that person will be frustrated with Nvida for pushing propriety features in games, and like Nvidia less as a company. Turns out, people are less likely to give money to companies they dislike.

So if I dislike ATi/AMD as a company (which I do) I'm not likely to buy one of their cards?

That doesn't always ring true you know. 😗

 

[smeezekitty]

PhysX is how Nvidia permanently lost me as a customer, after purchasing several desktop GPUs from them, and previously preferring their brand.

It's simple really. I had a card that supported PhysX, but upgraded to a competitor's GPU that was a better deal at the time. Then I realized that Nvidia disabled Physx on their card, which I paid good money for, because their drivers recognized a competitor's product.

Bam! And just like that, I decided to NEVER give them money again, EVER.

The Physx lockout BS is exactly why I don't buy NVidia.

 

[Mousemonkey]

PhysX is how Nvidia permanently lost me as a customer, after purchasing several desktop GPUs from them, and previously preferring their brand.

It's simple really. I had a card that supported PhysX, but upgraded to a competitor's GPU that was a better deal at the time. Then I realized that Nvidia disabled Physx on their card, which I paid good money for, because their drivers recognized a competitor's product.

Bam! And just like that, I decided to NEVER give them money again, EVER.

The Physx lockout BS is exactly why I don't buy NVidia.

Again I don't think anyone at Nvidia is losing sleep over the lack of your patronage either! :lol:

 

[17seconds]

Seems hard to believe that technologies enjoyed by the majority of gamers would somehow die out in favor of other much less widely adopted ones.

 

[renz496]

Let's hope AMD really is committed to its PC customers. I'm tired of not having choices. If AMD really commits to solving the multi-GPU issue, I will consider buying their tech again.

As for now, I've been using 3 generations of Nvidia SLI setups (580s, 680s, 780s) with no microstutter issues. It's no question to me that Nvidia is committed to its PC customers.

Let's not blow this too far out of proportion. AMD simply took too long to believe there was a micro-stuttering issue. It took some very dedicated investigations by tech sites and gamers to prove otherwise and hammer it home. At that point, they decided to do something about it. They also said that a new, significantly improved driver would be available on 31st July. Granted, it didn't fix everything, but the driver was only a day late. The issues aren't completely resolved, but in terms of single-monitor, DX10/11 CrossFireX (arguably the very thing that needed fixing first), there's been a significant improvement. Using a single, large monitor with CrossFireX now sounds like it'll be a lot more enjoyable.

They've got a long way to go, but at least they've started off down the road. Let's put it this way though - I won't be an AMD apologist, so if they fail to keep these improvements up then feel free to rag on them (I'll join you), though to be honest, as you're now using two 780s (nice), I'm not totally sure what difference it will make to you, especially over the short term - I'm sure they'll speed through any game released over the next three years, and AMD isn't exactly interested in large die GPUs anyway.

But the fact that their user base had been complaining about it for years seems to have escaped their notice, much like the complaints of GSOD's that AMD ignored until several tech site picked up on it and started to publish articles on the matter at which point AMD sparked into life and immediately blamed it on a Microsoft update to Windows! Later on it turns out that it may have had to with AMD's ULPS all along but I don't think AMD have ever openly admitted as much.

At least now they've finally admitted there is a problem, they've set about fixing it. It's unacceptable that it should ever have happened, but at least unlike the NVIDIA bumpgate fiasco, AMD have held their hands up and admitted they were wrong.

and not after it become a huge news at tech sites.

 

[montosaurous]

DirectX and Windows are proprietary standards, albeit on the software side of things. Being forced to use one brand of hardware over the other because of a few features is bullshit though, yes I agree.

 

[renz496]

this physx debacle shouldn't be a problem now if amd take nvidia offer to license the tech back in 2009. obviously nvidia can't simply make physx open just like openGL or openCL since nvidia bought Aegia and spend R&D to develop the software further (the situation isn't the same like when both ati and nvidia come up with Havok FX initiative). if amd really take that offer i dare to bet you won't even need nvidia cards by now to run gpu accelerated physx. i don't know maybe amd was confident that Bullet with openCL could take on nvidia physx head on but fast forward to 2013 i have yet to see games (not benchmark suite or tech demo) with Bullet OpenCL accelerated physics.

 

[Mousemonkey]

this physx debacle shouldn't be a problem now if amd take nvidia offer to license the tech back in 2009. obviously nvidia can't simply make physx open just like openGL or openCL since nvidia bought Aegia and spend R&D to develop the software further (the situation isn't the same like when both ati and nvidia come up with Havok FX initiative). if amd really take that offer i dare to bet you won't even need nvidia cards by now to run gpu accelerated physx. i don't know maybe amd was confident that Bullet with openCL could take on nvidia physx head on but fast forward to 2013 i have yet to see games (not benchmark suite or tech demo) with Bullet OpenCL accelerated physics.

It was nearly four years ago now that AMD announced that Bullet OpenCL was the next big thing and enthused how everyone was going to jump on it like it was the last moped out of freedom city and I have yet to see the revolution! :lol:

http://www.amd.com/us/press-releases/Pages/amd-announces-new-levels-of-realism-2009sept30.aspx

 

[renz496]

well, how about listing all the openCL games against a listing of physx games?

just off the top of my mind, i only know of physx games.

you're comparing two different things. but if you mean another physics engine the only physics engine that use openCL is bullet. and so far there is no games that utilize bullet are using openCL to accelerated gpu calculation did like physx

 

[smeezekitty]

Seems hard to believe that technologies enjoyed by the majority of gamers would somehow die out in favor of other much less widely adopted ones.

Maybe exaggerating a bit there?

Keep in mind CUDA is not for games and many gamers don't play Physx games regardless of card brand.