Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (
More info?)
"Matt Frisch" <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote in message
news:n03s31533cic629c5jv49t47c6hv00nqmd@4ax.com...
> >Yes, I read the wish spell description in the SRD(briefly). The versions
in
> >2E and 3E seem vastly different.
> >
> >The 3E version seems to be a very "pussified" version of the spell as I
know
> >it.
>
> You mean...balanced?
Sure, but it's also no longer a wish, if you ask me. If you want the spell
as described in the SRD, I would be tempted to call it Catchall or
something.
> > It seems to indicate that as long as the wish in question is in the
> >list of things one can accomplish with a wish, it will be granted.
>
> The list is simply guidelines and also commonly wished-for things.
It seemed to indicate that those were more like hard rules for limits on the
powers of the spell. If a DM *ONLY* allows those uses, it's not really a
wish, if you ask me.
> >Our wishes are much different, and played as the prototypical wish would
be
> >played: "I wish blah", you speak your wish, and it is literally granted,
>
> Which is not even in keeping with 2E rules. If your objection to the spell
> is because of how YOU interpret it, and not because of how it is written
in
> the rulebook, you might want to say so at the beginning.
>
> The description for the spell encourages DM fiendishness when something
> really out of sorts is wished for. Most any literal interpretation of a
> Wish will being general catastrophe for the person making it. Watch
> "Wakko's Wish" for examples.
Yes, I realize it says that, and that's how we implement it when it's
obvious that it goes beyond what would be considered "balanced", but truth
be told, I'd prefer to BOTH avoid having to make value judgments on what is
literally supposed to be the most powerful spell that is available to
characters, and I'd also like to not make the spell so underpowered that it
honestly ISN'T the first choice of a character when they "wish" they could
do something wierd and wonderful. For that reason, because it's *SO* hard
to judge the real balance limits without doing what has been done to the
wish spell in 3E, I prefer simply to limit the availability of the wish as a
real resource.
> > Unfortunately, it's EXTREMELY hard to gauge exactly where to draw
> >the line to preserve game balance.
>
> It's really not.
Not when you limit a wish to the guidelines in the 3E SRD, it's not, so I
suppose you're right, it's not hard to preserve game balance when the most
powerful spell in the SRD has been transformed from a world changer to
something that might possibly be able to tie a retard's shoes.
The 3E SRD really tones down the spell from a true wish to little more than
a "it slices, it dices, it even purees!" kind of spell, and that's fine, it
preserves game balance simply by not doing anything that most other spells
could otherwise accomplish(if used in concert). That, in my opinion, is NOT
the point of a wish.
Here's a few things to consider:
Working under the assumption that a wish spell's concept is that a character
can wish for something and it comes true(within reason)... Excerpts are
directly from the SRD:
"A wish can produce any one of the following effects.
". Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 8th level or lower, provided
the spell is not of a school prohibited to you.
". Duplicate any other spell of 6th level or lower, provided the spell is
not of a school prohibited to you.
". Duplicate any wizard or sorcerer spell of 7th level or lower even if it's
of a prohibited school.
". Duplicate any other spell of 5th level or lower even if it's of a
prohibited school.
". Undo the harmful effects of many other spells, such as geas/quest or
insanity.
Why the limits? It's a 9th level spell, it's the most powerful spell in the
book, it alters reality. Why not simply say "A wish can be used to
duplicate the effects of any spell, divine or arcane, opposition or not"
Personally, I would find it to be a WASTE of a wish to duplicate ANY spell
effect, because you can just cast the spell you want to cast, or find
someone to do it for you. As such, a wish, in our game, can be used,
without fear of intentional misinterpretation, to cast literally ANY spell.
I've never had ANYONE use a wish in this way, mind you, but if someone
wanted to do it, I would have no problem with it. Furthermore, if someone
wished for something that fundamentally mimicked a spell effect, despite not
using the words "i wish to cast spell blah", I would treat it as if they had
cast spell blah, and the spell would not be intentionally misinterpreted.
Specifically, I find the opposition school limit to be somewhat puzzling.
The spell wish specifically states that it alters reality. Fine, I alter my
reality so that for the casting time of one spell, I am from the school of
spell blah, I cast that spell. As far as I am concerned, limitations of a
wish to spells that already exist should be non-existant.
". Create a magic item, or add to the powers of an existing magic item.
No limits here? Very open ended on the magic item stuff, VERY specific on
the spell stuff. Strange.
". Grant a creature a +1 inherent bonus to an ability score. Two to five
wish spells cast in immediate succession can grant a creature a +2 to +5
inherent bonus to an ability score (two wishes for a +2 inherent bonus,
three for a +3 inherent bonus, and so on). Inherent bonuses are
instantaneous, so they cannot be dispelled. Note: An inherent bonus may not
exceed +5 for a single ability score, and inherent bonuses to a particular
ability score do not stack, so only the best one applies.
A guy with enough time, money and XP on his hands could literally wish
himself into demi-godhood. I've always found THIS use of wish to be the
most troubling.
". Remove injuries and afflictions.
". Revive the dead.
". Transport travelers.
These effects all more or less mirror spell abilities. To my mind, it would
be a waste to wish for such things unless it were LITERALLY the last resort.
". Undo misfortune. A wish can undo a single recent event. The wish forces a
reroll of any roll made within the last round (including your last turn).
Reality reshapes itself to accommodate the new result. For example, a wish
could undo an opponent's successful save, a foe's successful critical hit
(either the attack roll or the critical roll), a friend's failed save, and
so on. The reroll, however, may be as bad as or worse than the original
roll. An unwilling target gets a Will save to negate the effect, and spell
resistance (if any) applies.
This I find *DRAMATICALLY* underpowered for the wish spell. One event? I
can only have another stab at something that happened like a minute ago? At
the *VERY* least, I would say that a person could literally CHOOSE the
outcome of a single event(critical success, perhaps), by game mechanics,
choose the roll of the die. I would not limit it to just "another try".
--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
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