Question Daisy-chain 3 x Bionix P120 fans together to 1 header (1A) ?

[darkking791]

hello guys i just want to verify something.
im gonna upgrade soon to a ROG STRIX B550-A GAMING (from x470 prime pro) as new year gift to myself (lol)
unfortunately the 3 cha fan headers of my case isnt in a good place for my setup



My b550-A rog strix case fan headers:

CHA_FAN1
1A
12W
Q-Fan Controlled
-
CHA_FAN2
1A
12W
Q-Fan Controlled
-
CHA_FAN3
1A
12W
Q-Fan Controlled
-

right now for example i have on my x470 prime pro
daisy chained 2 p120 bionix fan together (top exhaust) daisy chained on 1 header cha fan 2
1 p120 bionix fan back exhaust alone on cha fan 1
and
2x p140 bionix daisy chain on 1 header front intake cha fan 3
on my x470 prime pro

Unfortunately though i cant do this configuration on my new OG STRIX B550-A GAMING
because the 2 cha fans are far away at the bottom of my mobo and too far from my top case fans.


So from what i see the bionix p120 fans have 0,13A each so i assume i can daisy chain all my 3 p120 case fans together (2top and 1 back)on one 1A header (cha fan 1 header ) of my b550-A rog strix which is on spot that can reach all the p120 (near cpu)


and then the 2 p140 bionix fans (front intake) daisy chained on the cha fan 2 of my b550-A rog strix

2 x 0.15A (p140 have 0.15) = 0.30A
i assume this is correct and safe right? 3 x 0.13 is 0.39A? and 2x0.15A = 0.30A which is more than enough for my 1A headers (correct?)




P120 FAN


Fan Frame:
BioniX
Control Type:
PWM PST
Connector:
4-Pin Connector + 4-Pin Socket
Fan Bearing:
Fluid Dynamic Bearing

Electric Characteristics
Typical Voltage:
12 V DC
Starting Voltage:
4.3 V
Current | Voltage:
0.13 A | 12 V DC
Cable Length:
400 mm



P140 FAN


Fan Frame:

BioniX



Control Type:

PWM PST



Connector:

4-Pin Connector + 4-Pin Socket



Fan Bearing:

Fluid Dynamic Bearing



Operating Ambient Temperature:

0—40 °C



Warranty:

6 Years




Electric Characteristics


Typical Voltage:

12 V DC



Starting Voltage:

4.3 V



Current | Voltage:

0.15 A | 12 V DC



Cable Length:

400 mm





Though that's gonna be less optimal that i have right now because

right now i have top case fans on silent mode (for less noise and less exhaust air )
and the
1 back exhaust and 2 front intake on normal mode

(i believe this way i had more positive air and less noise)

but from now on

im gonna have to put

all the 3 bionix p120 fans on silent mode (2 top exhaust 1 back exhaust)
and have the rest

2 p140 front case fans (intake) on normal mode .
Either way i believe 3 exhaust fan even in silent mode should be more than enough for my 2 p140 intake fans.

My system

case Carbide Spec 01

5 Bionix case fans (3p120/2p140)
cpu r7 5700x PBO enabled (in few months im gonna upgrade to 5800x3d for a last hurray on AM4)
cpu fan arctic freezer 34 esports duo (2x p120 bionix case fans)
32 gb gskill flare x 3200 cl14
b550-A rog strix
Asrock Rx 6950 XT 16GB Phantom Gaming OC
1TB kingston kc3000 1T OS drive
1TB kingston kc3000 1T drive secondary gaming drive

and 3 hard drives and 1 sata ssd for storage



Happy new year guys

 

[Darkbreeze]

What does being far away have to do with not being able to use those headers? Just get fan extension cables.

https://www.amazon.com/ThreeBulls-Splitter-Computer-Extension-Converter/dp/B07M5P7VHH

 

[darkking791]

What does being far away have to do with not being able to use those headers? Just get fan extension cables.

https://www.amazon.com/ThreeBulls-Splitter-Computer-Extension-Converter/dp/B07M5P7VHH

Hello, i bought those Noctua Chromax NA-SEC1 4-Pin pwm - 4-Pin pwm Cable Black.
The kit have 4 extenders 0.3m each
If for some reason 1 extender cable(30cm) isn't enough i assume i can connect 2 extenders(2 x 30cm) together for a extra long cable(60cm) right?
(In theory i can connect 4 noctua extender cables together ( 4x 30cm =120cm) + case fan for ena extra long cable without any danger)

 

[Paperdoc]

1. Yes, your load calculations are correct, and you can group the fans that way.
2. Yes, you can link two extender cables together to make a long one.
3. Setting the exhaust fans to a fixed slower speed can give you a net small positive air pressure, but there's an easy way to make this well balanced for all workloads. You already have the three exhaust fans connected together to one header, and the intake fans on another header. You can create a custom "fan curve" (instead of using a fixed Quiet speed) that runs the exhaust fan group slower than the intakes at all workloads. You use a smoke tracer technique to observe actual air flow at case cracks for this. For details, see the third-and second-last paragraphs of my post of Nov 30/23 in this thread.

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/top-case-fans-realization.3829392/#post-23150166

 

[darkking791]

1. Yes, your load calculations are correct, and you can group the fans that way.
2. Yes, you can link two extender cables together to make a long one.
3. Setting the exhaust fans to a fixed slower speed can give you a net small positive air pressure, but there's an easy way to make this well balanced for all workloads. You already have the three exhaust fans connected together to one header, and the intake fans on another header. You can create a custom "fan curve" (instead of using a fixed Quiet speed) that runs the exhaust fan group slower than the intakes at all workloads. You use a smoke tracer technique to observe actual air flow at case cracks for this. For details, see the third-and second-last paragraphs of mu post of Nov 30.23 in this thread.

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/top-case-fans-realization.3829392/#post-23150166

im not using a fixed or a particular speed from my understing the silent mode its a mode that runs at lower speed most of time because it have more relaxed curve (temps/rpms) and favor silence.
at least thats what have i understood from the fan mode in bios.
Silent/normal/turbo/full speed/custom is the options i have in my bios for the case fans
right now i have 3 headers so im using
A header for back exhaust 1 fan - standard mode in bios
B header for top exhaust (2 fans daisy chained) silent mode in bios
C header for front intake (2 fans daisy chained) standard mode in bios

and with the new Noctua extenders (11€) , im gonna have the same setup with the B550-A rog strix ,i believe this setup should be better
than the alternative withouth the extenders :

A header for back exhaust 1 fan / top exhaust - 3 fans daisy chained / silent mode in bios
B header for front intake (2 fans daisy chained) standard mode in bios

 

[Paperdoc]

I suspect you are wrong about a detail, The "Silent" Profile in BIOS Setup normally is a FIXED slow speed, NOT a different "fan profile" that is simply slower for all temps. For most headers the way to get a "fan profile" that DOES alter speeds in response to temperature changes but just runs a bit slower than the "Normal Profile" is to use the "Custom Profile"option and set your own speed-vs-temp settings on its graph.

 

[darkking791]

I suspect you are wrong about a detail, The "Silent" Profile in BIOS Setup normally is a FIXED slow speed, NOT a different "fan profile" that is simply slower for all temps. For most headers the way to get a "fan profile" that DOES alter speeds in response to temperature changes but just runs a bit slower than the "Normal Profile" is to use the "Custom Profile"option and set your own speed-vs-temp settings on its graph.

i see thanks maybe im wrong then about the silent profile.
when i have time someday im gonna research the custom mode.
But for now im ok with silent mode because my airflow is pretty good
The noise on the other hand is like an airplane in my desk

 

[Paperdoc]

All of your case fans are 4-pin PWM type, I believe. Check this detail about control of fan speed for cooling. This would apply both to the CPU_FAN header for CPU cooling, and to the CHA_FAN headers for case fans. In each header, look for a setting of fan MODE - choices usually are Voltage (or DC), PWM, or Auto. Ensure each is set to PWM, not Voltage, DC or Auto. That way the header CAN exert control of fan speeds. This may impact the noise you report.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I suspect you are wrong about a detail, The "Silent" Profile in BIOS Setup normally is a FIXED slow speed, NOT a different "fan profile" that is simply slower for all temps. For most headers the way to get a "fan profile" that DOES alter speeds in response to temperature changes but just runs a bit slower than the "Normal Profile" is to use the "Custom Profile"option and set your own speed-vs-temp settings on its graph.

On this one subject I'm going to have to disagree. On every modern board I have that uses either Gigabyte's "Smart fan", ASUS Q-fan, ASRock's A-tuning, etc., or that I've worked on (At least in the modern era since the majority of motherboard headers began supporting both 3 pin DC control AND 4 pin PWM) the "silent mode" HAS been a preset "curve" that simply keeps the linear increase in fan speed at very low, but steadily increasing RPMs until you reach a fairly high temperature and then rapidly shoots up to max RPM in a short space. In fact, that goes all the way back to my ASUS Sabertooth 990fx r2.0 board's fan profiles. Even then it was not a static profile but was simply a very low incline until a reasonably high temp was reached and then shot up. Keeps system silent under most conditions but also affords full speed operation before anything dangerous happens.

Personally I prefer something a bit similar to what the silent profile is on most boards presets but beginning the upwards climb from the start, just at a very gradual degree but less gradual than the silent profiles, and then heading upwards at a little more gradual incline at say around 65-70°C for CPU temp controlled headers and around 50°C for "motherboard temp" controlled headers.

I know you know your business in this area, but that's my experience on the silent profile's on the majority of boards I've worked on.

 

[Darkbreeze]

All of your case fans are 4-pin PWM type, I believe. Check this detail about control of fan speed for cooling. This would apply both to the CPU_FAN header for CPU cooling, and to the CHA_FAN headers for case fans. In each header, look for a setting of fan MODE - choices usually are Voltage (or DC), PWM, or Auto. Ensure each is set to PWM, not Voltage, DC or Auto. That way the header CAN exert control of fan speeds. This may impact the noise you report.

This.

And if your fans are set to the correct control type, being DC or voltage based on the type of fan they are, and if you have a reasonably acceptable fan curve configured for each header using the correct sensor (CPU, motherboard, VRM, GPU, etc., which I recommend using CPU only for CPU coolers or radiator fans and using motherboard sensor for case fans, as that usually uses a combination of several motherboard sensor values to determine an appropriate reading) input type and source type, and you still have an airplane in your desk, then either something isn't configured right, as in configured for the wrong type of fan or using the wrong input, like using CPU temp for case fans which is a no no IMO, or there is an actual problem with something like CPU cooler heatsink installation isn't correct or case fan configuration is wrong.

 

[darkking791]

This.

And if your fans are set to the correct control type, being DC or voltage based on the type of fan they are, and if you have a reasonably acceptable fan curve configured for each header using the correct sensor (CPU, motherboard, VRM, GPU, etc., which I recommend using CPU only for CPU coolers or radiator fans and using motherboard sensor for case fans, as that usually uses a combination of several motherboard sensor values to determine an appropriate reading) input type and source type, and you still have an airplane in your desk, then either something isn't configured right, as in configured for the wrong type of fan or using the wrong input, like using CPU temp for case fans which is a no no IMO, or there is an actual problem with something like CPU cooler heatsink installation isn't correct or case fan configuration is wrong.

all my fans are pwm , and my fans is in the correct headers , its not always an airplane mode , but when the load is big and the fans stretching their legs becoming "airplane" before i had f120 fans/f140 and it was worse acoustic wise but sold them and bought p120/140 (20€ total upgrade cost) and the noise more linear and its not annoying like before though the carbide spec 01 even though its have a great airflow it doesn't have any noise dampening unfortunately.
Also the case is at a hand reaching distance from me...so its a minus noise wise... the only thing i can do is probably is do a custom fan profile sacrificing some thermals for less noise)

 

[Darkbreeze]

You don't need your case fans roaring in order to keep the CPU cool. Even a small amount of airflow from the case fans will usually provide plenty of airflow for the CPU cooler to be able to do it's job.

The question isn't if your fans are on the correct headers. The question is whether those headers are properly configured in the BIOS. ANY fan header that you have a case fan connected to, not the fans for your CPU cooler, ONLY the case fans, you need to make sure that in the BIOS those fan headers are set to "PWM" and not "DC" or "Auto". Then, you also need to make sure that EACH of those headers that are connected to case fans have the source set to the "motherboard" thermal sensor. Not "CPU". Not "GPU". Not "VRM"


Also, your case, the Corsair Carbide Spec 01 is not great in terms of airflow due to the front panel restrictions. It's not terrible either, but it's not great. And you need to make sure that the front fans are intake, blowing INTO the case, and that any top or rear fans are exhaust, blowing OUT of the case. If any of the fans are not in the correct orientation for their location, you need to flip them around.

 

[darkking791]

You don't need your case fans roaring in order to keep the CPU cool. Even a small amount of airflow from the case fans will usually provide plenty of airflow for the CPU cooler to be able to do it's job.

The question isn't if your fans are on the correct headers. The question is whether those headers are properly configured in the BIOS. ANY fan header that you have a case fan connected to, not the fans for your CPU cooler, ONLY the case fans, you need to make sure that in the BIOS those fan headers are set to "PWM" and not "DC" or "Auto". Then, you also need to make sure that EACH of those headers that are connected to case fans have the source set to the "motherboard" thermal sensor. Not "CPU". Not "GPU". Not "VRM"


Also, your case, the Corsair Carbide Spec 01 is not great in terms of airflow due to the front panel restrictions. It's not terrible either, but it's not great. And you need to make sure that the front fans are intake, blowing INTO the case, and that any top or rear fans are exhaust, blowing OUT of the case. If any of the fans are not in the correct orientation for their location, you need to flip them around.

yeap the 2x140 (p140) are intake and the rest 1 x120 back and 2x120 top (p120s) are exhaust also
i put right now all the CASE Fans at silent mode (doublecheck for pwm) and i left the CPU Fan at Standard mode alone (but i checked if its PWM)
btw cpu cooler is a freezer 34 esports duo (2xp120 fans)

My temps are really good (mulitcore run cinebech 23 with pbo enabled max temp 77C (peak draw 128w)
34C min cpu temp / 54C max right now with only some browsing after pc restart

now i have all the case fans silent its somewhat better.
but surely i can make it even better with custom fan profile.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Ok, but you still haven't mentioned if you set the "source" for the case fans to motherboard thermal sensor in the BIOS. Because by default, a lot of boards have all the fan headers set to CPU thermal sensor and you do not want that. You want ALL case fan headers set to either "System" or "Motherboard". The option to set the fan header "source" should be found under the Q-fan controls and you need to be in Advanced mode, not EZ or basic mode, to see those options.

 

[darkking791]

Ok, but you still haven't mentioned if you set the "source" for the case fans to motherboard thermal sensor in the BIOS. Because by default, a lot of boards have all the fan headers set to CPU thermal sensor and you do not want that. You want ALL case fan headers set to either "System" or "Motherboard". The option to set the fan header "source" should be found under the Q-fan controls and you need to be in Advanced mode, not EZ or basic mode, to see those options.

I didn't check that u right im gonna have some research on that because i haven't never done it before
(im gonna have it again though in a few days when the new 550-a rog strix arive, should be similar though same asus bios)

 

[darkking791]

Ok, but you still haven't mentioned if you set the "source" for the case fans to motherboard thermal sensor in the BIOS. Because by default, a lot of boards have all the fan headers set to CPU thermal sensor and you do not want that. You want ALL case fan headers set to either "System" or "Motherboard". The option to set the fan header "source" should be found under the Q-fan controls and you need to be in Advanced mode, not EZ or basic mode, to see those options.

So i found it ,
i had to go to monitor section in advanced settings and then there had the cpu /motherboard temps and few things more scrolled down and found the qfan tuning
inside there had the cpu fan q-fan control didnt touch that left it at standard mode (though im thinking if its gonna better for cpu temps if i raise the rpm limit of cpu fans from 200 to somewhere near 700-800 rpm)

-

https://imgur.com/A98ZZyF

View: https://imgur.com/A98ZZyF


then bellow the cpu have the chassis fan configuration which there had all the 3 fans headers as the source had the CPU i changed that and chose the motherboard (immediately i felt the case fans and specially the intakes to slow down)

-

https://imgur.com/4G3LwTZ

View: https://imgur.com/4G3LwTZ

-

https://imgur.com/LsMahLP

View: https://imgur.com/LsMahLP




In the end i had this message so it seems im good
-

https://imgur.com/e5lYH9N

View: https://imgur.com/e5lYH9N


PS. from what i see the source i changed is only for the chase fans correct?
i didn't see any option for the cpu fan header, i assume the cpu fan header source doesn't change.. (i dont want to change it after all).

ps2 but why asus do this? and leaving the CPU as the source for case fans? i assume its for better temp perfomance in sacrifice of noise?, its harder for a motherboard to heat up after all so the case fans will have to do less work so that mean less noise but a slightly hotter cpu?

ps3 and i really want to thank you Darkbreeze the lesson about the case fans and the "source" of the headers is very valuable i didn't know about it, and im gonna use it in my next builds too,
much appreciated

 

[Darkbreeze]

Cool man. Should be much quieter now even under loads.

 

[Paperdoc]

Glad to hear you got this figured out. About the source sensor for the CPU_FAN header, you found what almost ALL boards do. They do NOT let you use any temp sensor except the one inside the CPU chip to guide CPU cooling. A choice should be available ONLY for case vent fans on CHA_FAN or SYS_FAN headers. I agree it is odd that your mobo's default choice there was the CPU temp sensor. Another good reason to know about this item and check for yourself.

 

[darkking791]

Glad to hear you got this figured out. About the source sensor for the CPU_FAN header, you found what almost ALL boards do. They do NOT let you use any temp sensor except the one inside the CPU chip to guide CPU cooling. A choice should be available ONLY for case vent fans on CHA_FAN or SYS_FAN headers. I agree it is odd that your mobo's default choice there was the CPU temp sensor. Another good reason to know about this item and check for yourself.

i see , its a wise move to not let people change the cpu_fan header sensor source , some people might change it by mistake when trying to change the cha_fan header source for first time like me for example and damage their CPU, its wise that only the cha_fan headers allowed to change.