[SOLVED] Did Gigabyte mislead me, or am I not reading this correctly??

[monere]

Hey guys!

Can someone please clear something up for me? I have a computer that uses this Gigabyte Mobo... GA-H97M-D3H rev. 1.0

And in this MoBo's user manual (both the online, and offline version of it), on page 10 (about installing the RAM modules) it says something that seems to contradict itself, and I don't know which one of those 2 to believe. Let me show you what I mean by using images:

So, this is my MoBo, right?

And as you can see from that yellow elipse the 4 slots into which to install the RAM memory sticks are numbered (starting from top to bottom) as follows:

• DDR3_4
• DDR3_2
• DDR3_3
• DDR3_1

Right? Right...

Now, according to this motherboard's user manual (again, both the offline and online version have the same wording, you can easily check this for yourselves by visiting the link below and scrolling to page 10), under the "Installing the Memory" section (1-4), you can see the 2 pieces of contradictory information that is confusing me and which I have underlined in red (the first part) and blue (the 2nd part, which is the part that contradicts the part in red). Check the image underneath the link below to see what I mean.

The user manual... https://download1.gigabyte.com/File...-d3h_e.pdf?v=66533db1480d10a7b185533154af9592

So, according to the first part (underlined with a red thick bar) the 2 channels are 2/4 and 1/3. But, the image of the MoBo itself shows that the 2 channels are actually 4/3 and 2/1 instead of 2/4 and 1/3 like the manual says. So, which one is the truth? Which are the actual channels: 2/4 and 1/3, or 4/3 and 2/1??

Because this bit of info is very important if we want to get the "optimum performance" that Gigabyte says in their manual (as underlined with the blue, thick line by me in the image above), and I do want to get the "optimum performance" out of my RAM modules, but according to the words underlined in blue this "optimum performance" will be obtained if I install the 2 memory sticks in slots 1 and 2 because, presumably, they need to be installed into the same channel, right? But the right channel is 1/2 according to the blue underlined text in the user manual and according to the MoBo itself (which is also where I have the sticks slotted into, as well), but then again what's the deal with the text underlined in red? That text looks very misleading, and it might not matter to people who are experienced in setting up computers properly, but it sure as heck is confusing and misleading for newbies like me who try to do things by the book.... um.... yeah

So, probably too much ado for nothing, but hey, when something irks you it just does, you know.... So, what says you about this evil plot of Gigabyte to detour a random nobody at the edge of the world from properly installing 2 memory sticks that work just fine anyway? Well? What says you?

 

[JohnBonhamsGhost]

you can tell by the color coordination;
black & white where DIMM slots 4 & 3 would be paired and 2 & 1 would be paired in dual channel setups.

 

[Aeacus]

Proper RAM installation of 2x sticks into your MoBo are;
DDR3_1 and DDR3_2, just like it's said in manual (blue underline). <- This gives you dual-channel RAM.

If you were to install your RAM into e.g DDR3_1 and DDR3_3, both sticks would be in channel B and you'd have single-channel RAM (red underline).

Did it make sense?

 

[Lafong]

I think you want the grey slots if using 2 sticks.

"in the same colored DDR3 sockets", from the text in your pic.

Looks like that is 2 channels; one stick in channel A and one stick in channel B.

 

[monere]

Proper RAM installation of 2x sticks into your MoBo are;
DDR3_1 and DDR3_2, just like it's said in manual (blue underline). <- This gives you dual-channel RAM.

If you were to install your RAM into e.g DDR3_1 and DDR3_3, both sticks would be in channel B and you'd have single-channel RAM (red underline).

Did it make sense?

it does make sense, but I had to read your explanation 4 times to see your point LOL ... So confusing...

I think you want the grey slots if using 2 sticks.

"in the same colored DDR3 sockets", from the text in your pic.

Looks like that is 2 channels; one stick in channel A and one stick in channel B.

that's how they are installed now (in the grey slots), but my confusion comes from the fact that I associate the term "single channel" with 1 memory stick and I associate "dual channel" with 2 memory sticks. That's what I had thought to be the truth up until @Aeacus explained it xD

I am still having troubles getting my head around these terminologies, but I guess I'll get used to them over time...

you can tell by the color coordination;
black & white where DIMM slots 4 & 3 would be paired and 2 & 1 would be paired in dual channel setups.

that's how they're currently paired, yes. But as I read the manual (I don't even know why I read it, but I just did) I noticed the part in the red rectangle in image 2 in my OP and the pairings 1/3 and 2/4 threw me off because I thought that in order to benefit for the best performance of the memory sticks I needed to slot them into those slots (1 and 3, or 2 and 4), which is obviously not true. That's why I got confused and even slightly panicked and I immediately thought about creating this thread to ask for expert opinions before I get mental lol

Oh well, too much stress for me these days, I guess I need to take a break....

Thanks everyone for clearing this up for me. I would love to award you all with the "best answer" but I don't think it's possible, so just think to yourselves that you've won while I randomly choose one of you as the best answer xD

Cheers!

 

[Aeacus]

that's how they are installed now (in the grey slots), but my confusion comes from the fact that I associate the term "single channel" with 1 memory stick and I associate "dual channel" with 2 memory sticks.

Interesting thread of thought. In this case, would the workstation MoBo (e.g Asus ROG Strix X299-E Gaming II), with 8 RAM slots, fully filled with 8 RAM sticks, be octa-channel RAM in your mind? Or you filling your MoBo with all 4 RAM sticks and then it would be quad-channel RAM?

But yes, i can see how you could think so.

With 2 sticks of RAM, you can have single-channel RAM as well, IF you'd install both RAM sticks into same channel. But you properly installing one RAM stick to channel A and another stick to channel B, gives you dual-channel RAM. Since two channels are used to access the RAM.
Btw, workstation MoBos (like the X299 chipset i linked above) with 8 RAM slots, have quad-channel RAM, if at least 4 slots are correctly filled.

 

[monere]

Interesting thread of thought. In this case, would the workstation MoBo (e.g Asus ROG Strix X299-E Gaming II), with 8 RAM slots, fully filled with 8 RAM sticks, be octa-channel RAM in your mind? Or you filling your MoBo with all 4 RAM sticks and then it would be quad-channel RAM?

well, that's how my brain thinks, so what can I do other than train it to think correctly? I'm a newbie, so...

With 2 sticks of RAM, you can have single-channel RAM as well, IF you'd install both RAM sticks into same channel. But you properly installing one RAM stick to channel A and another stick to channel B, gives you dual-channel RAM. Since two channels are used to access the RAM.

um... here I am confused all over again!

Just so we're clear, looking at my MoBo (for now, let's ignore what the user manual says). the 2 RAM sticks have been installed into slots DDR3_4 and DDR3_3 (so, 4 and 3) by the guys who have put this PC together in the computer shop where I bought it from in 2014. So, according to you, those guys have sold me a PC with a single channel configuration but advertised as a double channel one because they've looked at my face and figured that I'm dumb as a brick and easy to fool, right?

And then, yesterday, I took both 2 sticks out from the black slots (4 and 3) and moved them both into the grey slots (2 and 1), basically changing absolutely nothing at all and maintaining the single channel configuration since both DIMMs have been kept within 1 channel, but only the channel had been changed.

And if I want to get the dual channel configuration I would have to keep 1 of the sticks into 1 of the grey slots (1 or 2, it doesn't matter which one), but move the other stick into one of the black sluts (3 or 4, it doesn't matter again which one).

Did I understand it correctly this time??

And if I did, in this case both @Lafong and @JohnBonhamsGhost as well as my own freaking MoBo's manual (the text underlined in blue I mean) are all wrong and if I follow these 3 sources' advice I would end up with single channel configuration again?!?

 

[Aeacus]

the 2 RAM sticks have been installed into slots DDR3_4 and DDR3_3 (so, 4 and 3) by the guys who have put this PC together in the computer shop where I bought it from in 2014.
So, according to you, those guys have sold me a PC with a single channel configuration but advertised as a double channel one because they've looked at my face and figured that I'm dumb as a brick and easy to fool, right?

No.

I'll try to explain it simply;

Your MoBo has 4 RAM slots, right?

Those slots are labeled as DDR3_1 through DDR3_4, right?

From MoBo manual, you can read that:
RAM channel A has two slots, DDR3_2 and DDR3_4
and RAM channel B also has two slots, DDR3_1 and DDR3_3, right?

Now, your RAM came installed in slots DDR3_3 (channel B) and DDR3_4 (channel A). <- This is still dual-channel, since one stick is in channel B and another is in channel A.
Albeit these slots aren't the main slots where to install two sticks of RAM. They are actually secondary slots, used only when you have 4 sticks of RAM or the primary RAM slots (for whatever reason) doesn't work anymore.

So, for dual-channel RAM, primary RAM slots for your MoBo are DDR3_1 and DDR3_2. While secondary RAM slots are DDR3_3 and DDR3_4.

Did you get it now?

Edit:
As far as RAM combinations, for dual-channel, there are several;
DDR3_1 and DDR3_2 <- two primary slots, preferred installation
DDR3_1 and DDR3_4 <- one primary slot, one secondary slot
DDR3_3 and DDR3_2 <- one secondary slot, one primary slot
DDR3_3 and DDR3_4 <- two secondary slots

 

[monere]

No.

I'll try to explain it simply;

Your MoBo has 4 RAM slots, right?

Those slots are labeled as DDR3_1 through DDR3_4, right?

From MoBo manual, you can read that:
RAM channel A has two slots, DDR3_2 and DDR3_4
and RAM channel B also has two slots, DDR3_1 and DDR3_3, right?

Now, your RAM came installed in slots DDR3_3 (channel B) and DDR3_4 (channel A). <- This is still dual-channel, since one stick is in channel B and another is in channel A.
Albeit these slots aren't the main slots where to install two sticks of RAM. They are actually secondary slots, used only when you have 4 sticks of RAM or the primary RAM slots (for whatever reason) doesn't work anymore.

So, for dual-channel RAM, primary RAM slots for your MoBo are DDR3_1 and DDR3_3. While secondary RAM slots are DDR3_2 and DDR3_4.

Did you get it now?

Yeah, I got it, let's just hope that I won't forget by the time I buy a new computer, because my memory span is that of a.... um, I don't know... something with a short memory span

Still, thanks for taking the time to explain like to a child. Apparently, this is the only way I can understand

 

[Aeacus]

Oh, i did made an edit and corrected one typo as well. But wasn't fast enough and you already quoted my initial reply.

 

[monere]

Oh, i did made an edit and corrected one typo as well. But wasn't fast enough and you already quoted my initial reply.

well, I have no idea what typo you've made, but I don't think I noticed it

Also, I just moved the RAM sticks to the slots you recommended (1 and 3), but I swear that I'm not seeing any difference in speeds. Moreover, Speccy now says Single-Channel (as you can see in the image below), but truth being told, I don't remember whether it had said Dual Channel before making this last switch, so I don't know.... And I don't care anyway because I'll probably replace this computer in a few months anyway, it's just that I wanted to get the best out of it to prove to myself that I'm good at stuff. Oh well....

 

[Aeacus]

Moreover, Speccy now says Single-Channel (as you can see in the image below), but truth being told, I don't remember whether it had said Dual Channel before making this last switch, so I don't know....

For dual-channel RAM, Speccy would tell this:
(My Skylake build.)

Speccy isn't that reliable, as you can tell. It fails to identify my RAM, which is Kingston Savage DDR4 4x 4GB.

Btw, do you have 2x 8GB or 2x 4GB RAM?

Though, for system information, better to use HWinfo64,
link: https://www.hwinfo.com/download/

 

[monere]

For dual-channel RAM, Speccy would tell this:
(My Skylake build.)

Speccy isn't that reliable, as you can tell. It fails to identify my RAM, which is Kingston Savage DDR4 4x 4GB.

Btw, do you have 2x 8GB or 2x 4GB RAM?

Though, for system information, better to use HWinfo64,
link: https://www.hwinfo.com/download/

I have 2x4 GB sticks. Here's a screenshot of the HW program:

 

[SkyNetRising]

Also, I just moved the RAM sticks to the slots you recommended (1 and 3), but I swear that I'm not seeing any difference in speeds.
Moreover, Speccy now says Single-Channel

You have to put ram modules in same color slots (grey color).
Currently you have it wrong.

 

[monere]

You have to put ram modules in same color slots (grey color).
Currently you have it wrong.

that's where they previously were and @Aeacus told me to move them to slots 1 and 3 (the first 2 slots when counting from bottom to top), which are DDR3_1 (the grey slot) and DDR3_3 (the black one). I don't know who to believe anymore...

 

[Aeacus]

and @Aeacus told me to move them to slots 1 and 3 (the first 2 slots when counting from bottom to top)

What i wrote, you read it wrong.

So, for dual-channel RAM, primary RAM slots for your MoBo are DDR3_1 and DDR3_2.

DDR3_1 and DDR3_2 slots, both of them are gray slots on your MoBo.

I red circled the correct slots:

Don't read the RAM slots from power plugs side, instead read them by the label.

As you can see from above image, if you were to start counting them from the bottom (power plugs side), they don't follow the 1, 2, 3, 4. Instead, they are 1, 3, 2, 4.

 

[monere]

DDR3_1 and DDR3_2 slots, both of them are gray slots on your MoBo.

nope, I haven't read it wrong (check my quoting of your reply, the writing is still there). But probably that's the typo you were talking about that you've fixed AFTER I had quoted it lol xD

Anyway, no biggie, I will fix it next time when I shut the computer down as I really see no differences in speed no matter the configuration. I think I'll see better results just by getting a damn SSD and 8 more GB of RAM than stressing over unnoticeable 1-2% speed "boosts"

 

[Aeacus]

But probably that's the typo you were talking about that you've fixed AFTER I had quoted it lol xD

Yes, that was the typo i made. But i realized it just after i posted the reply and started to edit it as well. But by that time, you already quoted my reply.

 

[Aeacus]

I think I'll see better results just by getting a damn SSD and 8 more GB of RAM than stressing over unnoticeable 1-2% speed "boosts"

Dual- channel RAM does have far significant speed increase over single-channel, than just mere 1-2%.

Here's RAM comparison; same brand, model, speed, CAS latency and total amount, where only diff is that one is single stick of 8GB while another is 2x 4GB,
link: https://ram.userbenchmark.com/Compa...vs-HyperX-Fury-DDR4-2133-C14-2x4GB/3555vs3554

Though, in real world aspect, the diff is noticeable in games, where dual-channel RAM reduces or eliminates stutters.

 

[monere]

Yes, that was the typo i made. But i realized it just after i posted the reply and started to edit it as well. But by that time, you already quoted my reply.

it happens

Anyway, at the moment I'm researching Sata-3 SSDs with DRAM cache so the RAMs issue is solved in what concerns me

Dual- channel RAM does have far significant speed increase over single-channel, than just mere 1-2%.

Here's RAM comparison; same brand, model, speed, CAS latency and total amount, where only diff is that one is single stick of 8GB while another is 2x 4GB,
link: https://ram.userbenchmark.com/Compa...vs-HyperX-Fury-DDR4-2133-C14-2x4GB/3555vs3554

Though, in real world aspect, the diff is noticeable in games, where dual-channel RAM reduces or eliminates stutters.

maybe, but I never noticed it

 

[Aeacus]

at the moment I'm researching Sata-3 SSDs with DRAM cache

IMO, there is only one option: Samsung 870 Evo,
review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-870-evo-sata-ssd-review-the-best-just-got-better

I have 870 Evos as my data (secondary) SSDs in my builds, 2TB in size per SSD. Very solid drives. My main (OS) drives are M.2 NVMe SSDs, Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB (in Skylake) and Samsung 980 1TB (in Haswell).

But if you don't want to buy The Best, then 2nd best option is Crucial MX500,
review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crucial-mx500-ssd-review-nand,5390.html

I have MX500 1TB as my backup drive in my main build (Skylake). Cheaper than Samsung, but still solid and good purchase.
(Btw, if you noticed from my Speccy, then you'd also see that i have Samsung 960 Evo 500GB M.2 NVMe in the system. <- This was my old OS drive, prior to purchasing 970 Evo Plus.)

 

[monere]

IMO, there is only one option: Samsung 870 Evo,
review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/samsung-870-evo-sata-ssd-review-the-best-just-got-better

I have 870 Evos as my data (secondary) SSDs in my builds, 2TB in size per SSD. Very solid drives. My main (OS) drives are M.2 NVMe SSDs, Samsung 970 Evo Plus 2TB (in Skylake) and Samsung 980 1TB (in Haswell).

But if you don't want to buy The Best, then 2nd best option is Crucial MX500,
review: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/crucial-mx500-ssd-review-nand,5390.html

I have MX500 1TB as my backup drive in my main build (Skylake). Cheaper than Samsung, but still solid and good purchase.
(Btw, if you noticed from my Speccy, then you'd also see that i have Samsung 960 Evo 500GB M.2 NVMe in the system. <- This was my old OS drive, prior to purchasing 970 Evo Plus.)

yeah, it's a good one, I keep seeing it being referenced in almost every research I do on SSDs, so it must be true

But I'll keep searching, maybe I find something cheaper. Given that this will be my first SSD ever I don't know what to expect of it, nor how SSD work and compare to HDD. All I know is that they're faster, but some people say that SSDs are faster as long as they're new and empty, once you fill them 50-60% they start being sluggish, so I don't know what to say...

But thanks for the recommendation regardless. It's been acknowledged

 

[Aeacus]

maybe I find something cheaper.

Crucial MX500 is cheaper, but still solid. Linked the review above.

that SSDs are faster as long as they're new and empty, once you fill them 50-60% they start being sluggish, so I don't know what to say...

Same is with HDDs as well. So, better to go big with capacity, 1TB or more.

Btw, SSDs may slow down once you reach 80% capacity. My Crucial MX500, for example slows down at that fill level, but it is still far faster than any HDD. My Samsung 870 Evo, is filled ~50% and it's still snappy as ever.

 

[monere]

Crucial MX500 is cheaper, but still solid. Linked the review above.

yeah, it's already in my "best SSDs" bookmarking folder

Same is with HDDs as well. So, better to go big with capacity, 1TB or more.

I don't think I ever noticed this with HDDs, but then again, I never cared about noticing and trying things out, so...

And yes, I will go for at least 1TB (2TB to be more specific, since the MoBo that I'm having in mind does support 2 M.2 NVMe SSDs)... 'Twill be fun

Btw, SSDs may slow down once you reach 80% capacity. My Crucial MX500, for example slows down at that fill level, but it is still far faster than any HDD. My Samsung 870 Evo, is filled ~50% and it's still snappy as ever.

question: does it slow down only when moving files around between drives, or does it slow down in booting / loading stuff up as well?

 

[Aeacus]

question: does it slow down only when moving files around between drives, or does it slow down in booting / loading stuff up as well?

Since i don't have my MX500 as an OS drive, but instead as backup drive, the slow down that i've seen, is only in synthetic benchmark programs, that measure the rate of read/write. In real life applications, i haven't spot a difference.

None of my M.2 drives show any slow downs. And even if there are any (during boot up), it has always been software issue (Win is sometimes slow to figure itself out), rather than being the drive issue.