Question Do i need 8+4pins to the CPU?

[Fameroun]

I've read that it isnt necessary to connect the 4 pin to the CPU power on the mobo as long as I have the 8 pin connected.
But since my new MSI MPG Z390 GAMING PRO CARBON and i5 9600k won't post anything on the screen im wondering if I have to have both 8pin and 4pin connected to the "CPU_PWR" to make it work?
I've tried almost anything but THAT so is there a chance that this mobo or CPU needs both?

 

[Rogue Leader]

In every single case where I have seen someone stick a PCIe plug into an EPS connector they have fried the CPU. That plug is direct into the board's power system for the CPU. Probably burnt the VRMs too but I can't confirm that.

Fee free to troubleshoot all you want, its unlikely you damaged the PSU, but the board and CPU, are probably shot.

 

[Fameroun]

I've checked the RAM dimms but nothing changed. Could ofcourse be a problem with the RAMs but they are also new so probably not.

 

[Fameroun]

Why can't they just make the pcie not fit into the eps. Feels so bad destroying brand new expensive stuff by such a simple mistake when you are not an expert on the subject.
As an electrical engineer I must say this is a frustrating problem in the world of PC building...

 

[NightHawkRMX]

When I was a noob to pc building, I tried to plug the PCIe 8pin connector into an 8 pin eps power port and I found it impossible. The pins of the PCIe connector are keyed differently and are designed to not fit in the eps port. You have modified the connector, so the reason it fit is because you forced it. We all make mistakes, and you now know what not to do.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Why can't they just make the pcie not fit into the eps. Feels so bad destroying brand new expensive stuff by such a simple mistake when you are not an expert on the subject.
As an electrical engineer I must say this is a frustrating problem in the world of PC building...

I mean it doesn't really fit in the connector, you made it fit:

Managed to fit an 8pin pcie cord(with a little modification) into the CPU_PWR1 and put the 4pin, that I already had, into the CPU_PWR2 but still it didnt post. :/

If you had to modify it to fit, it doesn't fit. PC's for as long as I've been building (goes back to the late 80's) only fit and plug in one way, they make it fairly simple to not damage anything by keying things specifically that they only work one way.

 

[Fameroun]

I mean it doesn't really fit in the connector, you made it fit:



If you had to modify it to fit, it doesn't fit. PC's for as long as I've been building (goes back to the late 80's) only fit and plug in one way, they make it fairly simple to not damage anything by keying things specifically that they only work one way.

No, read the whole thread, please.
I didnt modify the plastic i modified the voltages to the pcie pin. The 8pin pcie FITS the 8 pin eps as you can see in one of the pictures in the thread. As I said; NO PLASTIC PARTS were modified.

 

[Fameroun]

I simply must have some ------ psu then because how did I else get the PCIE into the EPS at the first place? I never modified anything on the plastic connectors but still it fit perfectly without force.
And according to this picture it should also fit:

 

[Darkbreeze]

Motherboards don't have "protections", which is why power supplies do. Whether they work or not, is a different story, and largely a part of why we try to beat the idea of only buying high quality power supplies into people over and over again. Often, cheap or even mediocre units will have protections that tend to not work when they are needed which is why those kinds of units should be avoided. Well, one of the reasons anyhow.

If the PSU is working fine but the system still fails to power on or POST, and you've checked and double checked everything from the No Post checklist, then you either have a dead board or as Dark lord of tech mentioned it's possible that this specific board DOES require that all the EPS connectors be in use. Simply swapping wires around on the PCI connector doesn't necessarily mean you get a functional EPS connector. I'm still pretty doubtful that's the case, but honestly, anytime you stray from the normal and approved way of doing things you stand a good chance of screwing something up or things not working exactly as intended, or at all for that matter.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

It is also possible you damaged only part of something like your pcie connector no longer works or something.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I simply must have some shitty psu then because how did I else get the PCIE into the EPS at the first place? I never modified anything on the plastic connectors but still it fit perfectly without force.
And according to this picture it should also fit:

No, actually it shouldn't. The shapes of each of those connections are KEYED, so that only specific plugs will fit specific sockets. It's not just the pinout, it's the shape of the key. If you look at the EPS socket, the bottom right is square. The bottom right of the PCI has a half octagonal and half square. The second from the top left on the EPS is square. The second from the top left on the PCI is half octagonal and half square. They are not the same, AT ALL, but people CERTAINLY figure out ways to force them down into the socket just enough for them to make contact OR all the way with enoug force. Those components are made of fairly thin plastic, they will give with enough force.

We learn in kindergarten not to put the square block in the round hole.

 

[Darkbreeze]

It is also possible you damaged only part of something like your pcie connector no longer works or something.

No, I really do not think that is likely.

 

[NightHawkRMX]

Its not likely, but possible. I would keep troubleshooting things, and then replace the motherboard and then cpu if troubleshooting turns up inconclusive.

 

[Rogue Leader]

No, read the whole thread, please.
I didnt modify the plastic i modified the voltages to the pcie pin. The 8pin pcie FITS the 8 pin eps as you can see in one of the pictures in the thread. As I said; NO PLASTIC PARTS were modified.

I did read the whole thread such as specifically the part where you plugged it in before changing the pinout in the connector. And secondly the plug is keyed not to fit in that socket, you are not looking at the diagram correctly, but with enough force you can get the plug to fit, which is exactly what you actually did.

Had you changed the pinout first, and then jammed it in there, there is a chance you wouldn't be in the spot you are in, but thats not what happened.

 

[InvalidError]

Nothing looks burnt what I see and the PSU runs perfectly when attached correctly so there shouldnt be any protections tripped?

It is the other way around: the protections tripped when you shorted 12V to ground, that's why your motehrboard's connectors and whatever else the current may have passed through didn't melt down before the protection tripped and shut down the PSU likely before any damage occurred.

Intel's Haswell power spec requires that compliant PSUs be able to survive shorts to ground without any damage, so you should be able to trip the OCP all day long if you wanted to on a decent quality post-Haswell PSU.

 

[Darkbreeze]

Which means the PSU is probably fine, but does not necessarily mean that nothing has happened to the motherboard. Plenty of systems WITH power supplies that have good protections, die, from a variety of mishaps. Just because the power supply is ok does not always mean that something else isn't irrevocably damaged before the protection kicked in. And then again, it might not be damaged at all. I've seen these kinds of situations go both ways.

If the system is not powering on AT ALL though, no fans, no lights on the motherboard, no indications of life at all aside from the power supply, then I would be leaning heavily towards a damaged motherboard or CPU. There is just not many things that would NOT allow there to be AT LEAST some signs of life.

 

[Fameroun]

Every fan and every led and everything seems to be working on the motherboard the only thing that shows that something isnt working is the "EZ DEBUG LED" indicator for the cpu.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Every fan and every led and everything seems to be working on the motherboard the only thing that shows that something isnt working is the "EZ DEBUG LED" indicator for the cpu.

Because again, you've fried the CPU on that first bootup before you repinned the connector. The only possible question here is if you fried the motherboard as well but the only way to test that is with a new CPU. Personally I wouldn't even risk it.

 

[DSzymborski]

Every fan and every led and everything seems to be working on the motherboard the only thing that shows that something isnt working is the "EZ DEBUG LED" indicator for the cpu.

"The LEDs and fans work, the only problem is the CPU" is the computer equivalent of saying "except for an unfortunate incident after the intermission, Mrs. Lincoln greatly enjoyed the production of Our American Cousin."

 

[Fameroun]

Because again, you've fried the CPU on that first bootup before you repinned the connector. The only possible question here is if you fried the motherboard as well but the only way to test that is with a new CPU. Personally I wouldn't even risk it.

Yes I've heard that several times now, sorry for not quoting Darkbreeze but I meant to tell HIM that.

 

[Fameroun]

No, actually it shouldn't. The shapes of each of those connections are KEYED, so that only specific plugs will fit specific sockets. It's not just the pinout, it's the shape of the key. If you look at the EPS socket, the bottom right is square. The bottom right of the PCI has a half octagonal and half square. The second from the top left on the EPS is square. The second from the top left on the PCI is half octagonal and half square. They are not the same, AT ALL, but people CERTAINLY figure out ways to force them down into the socket just enough for them to make contact OR all the way with enoug force. Those components are made of fairly thin plastic, they will give with enough force.

We learn in kindergarten not to put the square block in the round hole.

Do you see any damage?
An half octagonal will still fit into a square, don't know what you learnt in kindergarten.
It triggers me that you have theories on how I did my job, when I've been saying else than your theories. This is now so off topic, just wanted to clarify how I did my job and WHY it worked for me.
Now back to the topic.

 

[InvalidError]

An half octagonal will still fit into a square, don't know what you learnt in kindergarten.

The keying isn't octogonal, it is a D-shaped hexagon. While the 'D' may fit in a square hole, the other pins are square-shaped and won't fit in D-shaped holes without either considerable force or knocking out those corners and that is how the keying prevents people from casually plugging things in backwards.

Also, I believe the row spacing is slightly different between PCIe and ATX12V/EPS12, making it a whole lot more difficult to 'successfully' insert one into the other.

 

[Darkbreeze]

I'm done with trying to help somebody that simply wants to contradict, ignore and refute all the evidence and attempts to identify and resolve the problem. You can lead a horse....and all that. Five LONG time veterans have all told you the same thing. I'm not sure what else there is to discuss actually OR how you think the information that has been offered is not relevant and is off topic. Everything that has been said here is 100% ON topic.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Do you see any damage?
An half octagonal will still fit into a square, don't know what you learnt in kindergarten.
It triggers me that you have theories on how I did my job, when I've been saying else than your theories. This is now so off topic, just wanted to clarify how I did my job and WHY it worked for me.
Now back to the topic.

If you want to share an image you need to use something like imgur.com whatever you posted doesn't work.

 

[Fameroun]

oh jeez... -.-

 

[Fameroun]

Update:
The Mobo is broken but the CPU is fine. Bought a much cheaper mobo and placed the CPU in it and it works great. The service men that checked my mobo and CPU said that the power grid was -------- up and probably from me but they also found a bent pin in the USBC1 port so there already was a fault in the motherboard. Will try to get it on warranty and shouldnt be impossible since i dont even have a connector that fits that port.
We learn when we make mistakes.
Thanks anyways for the help.