Does any body really like XP so far...?

[Smilin]

If you guys are having problems with XP it is very likely you are doing something wrong. Yes you with the bugs.

 

[Zoron]

Here are my system components:

Asus A7V Motherboard - BIOS Revsion 1.008
Athlon 1.0 GHz Thunderbird processor
ATI Radeon 64MB VIVO
Sound Blaster Live! (the original)
Adaptec 2940 SCSI Controller
Realtek 8139 10/100 NIC
Plextor UltraPlex 32X CD-ROM (SCSI)
Plextor 8/20 CD-R (SCSI)
20.0 GB Maxtor ATA 100 Hard drive
512 MB PC133 RAM
AOpen 300W power supply

I've never owned an nVidia-based product, so I can't really say anything about there being an issue with that. I would think that you're running at least a 300W power supply; if you aren't it's time to upgrade. nVidia cards, especially the earlier models, were notorious for requiring a little more power than the standard AGP cards of the day... as a result causing a lot of problems that were difficult to diagnose. I don't believe it's a problem with newer power supplies / motherboards.

 

[Retruglot]

Thanks... Yea, I've got a 300Watt PS and a LinkSys 10/100 NIC...

So, based on AMD_Man's experience.. I wonder if it wouldn't behoove me to buy a new MB that has a non-Via chipset? I recently got a PNY Vertigo GeForce2 MX400 video card, but had problems with it and took it out.. I think getting another MB would be the better decision, just so I don't have 2 video cards laying around and no other MB to put them in...

What other MB chipsets have you guys had good luck with? I usually buy the moderate mobos, I don't need to OC or have Raid.. I usually buy in the $100-$130 range.



Thanks again,
Ret

 

[Zoron]

The Asus A7V uses Via's KT133 chipset.. I've never had any problems with it that couldn't be solved by downloaded the latest drivers (for 98/ME anyway.. runs great with XP's default drivers). I haven't heard of anyone having issues with Geforce 2 cards and Via's chipsets before; but that's not to say that there isn't something there. I would be interested to know if anyone has had any problems with Via's KT266/266A and GeForce 2 cards. If you do decide to change your mobo.. go with SiS's latest chipset. It's not quite as fast as the KT266A, but it still offers good performance. (Not sure how many manufacturers make SiS chipset boards.. you may have trouble finding one).

 

[AMD_Man]

The IWill XP333 is the best DDR Mobo for an AMD platform. It's based on the powerful Ali Magik1 (revision C) and is rock solid stable. I'm looking to get one myself for my next upgrade.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[jiffy]

AMD_Man you promote this mobo like you work for IWill. And you don't even own it. Do you have any proof to back your words up? >>The IWill XP333 is the best DDR Mobo for an AMD platform<<
From what I read on this mobo it has its ups and downs, I hear it's a good mobo, but never heard surpassed all the others.
I also seen a pole where Abit easily out voted Iwill.
Out side of the divider what does it have going for it. I hear the VIA improves more then the Ali when over clocking. Guess that means you would have to over clock the Ali more to equal the VIA. Granted the divider allows higher settings, but set at stock is just a normally slower then VIA mobo.
And the debate VIA verses Ali. But I'm not hear to debate, but asking for proof that this is the best mobo and I would like to see where it surpassed Abit.


Complicated Nit Picker

 

[AMD_Man]

I'm not adverstising IWill, but it seems to me, from it's overall features, performance and stability from reviews, the IWill XP333 far outdoes any other mobo available.

Sure the IWill XP333 has lots of jumpers and it's performance is still under that of the KT266A but it's advantages far outweigh its disadvantages, in my mind.

<A HREF="http://www.vr-zone.com/reviews/IWill/XP333-R/" target="_new">VR Zone's Review</A>

<A HREF="http://accelenation.com/?doc=101&page=1" target="_new">Acceenation's review</A>

<A HREF="http://www.tbreak.com/hard/mobo/iwill_xp333/page1.html" target="_new">TBreak's Review</A>

<A HREF="http://www.3dvelocity.com/reviews/iwillxp333/" target="_new">3DVelocity's Review</A>

3DVelocity's seems to think that DDR333 support is not there but I fail to understand what DDR333 support is in their minds. The PCI dividers are there so what is "true" DDR333 support? I have no idea and 3D Velocity doesn't seem to be making much sense here. Do they think you can run the RAM at 333MHz and the FSB at 266MHz? That's useless. The Iwill board allows FSB speeds of 333MHz and above without overclocking the PCI bus and that is TRUE DDR333 support in my mind.



AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[jiffy]

Ok, thanks. I'll check those sights out after work.

Complicated Nit Picker

 

[blah]

Did you try to take LinkSys NIC out. Those are really not very good cheap cards.

..this is very useful and helpful place for information...

 

[jiffy]

I'm not adverstising IWill, but it seems to me, from it's overall features, performance and stability from reviews, the IWill XP333 far outdoes any other mobo available.

The reviews I just look at only compared it to it previous failures. The one that showed test had it showing the slowest of 3. None of them made any clams as you have. There is a difference between opinion and fact. Like take away the divider and the Iwill will hit the bottom of the chart. Why? Cause the VIA chip out performs it.

In your own words>>.
1. Sure the IWill XP333 has lots of jumpers
2. and it's performance is still under that of the KT266A
but it's advantages far outweigh its disadvantages, in my mind.<<

What advantages the divider? The onboard sound? The Ali chip?

They maybe on to a good ideal, but that still seems to be in question. Again were still talking about over clocking, and without that this mobo wouldn't be sh*t. Unless your a Ali lover.

I think Iwill is trying to make a name for themselves and seem to be onto something, but the only way to keep up with VIA mobo you have to melt your CPU. Since a little clocking on a VIA goes farther then the same setting on a Ali mobo.

Just my opinion, I seen you holding up a target and thought I would get some practice shots in. haha

Complicated Nit Picker

 

[Zoron]

I've always been leary of ALi-based mobos because of drivers issues with Win9x. The situation has improved with Windows XP, but ALi still has to prove itself IMO. They have always lagged behind in performance comparisons as well. As for the issue of 'true' DDR333 support, I believe the impression was that because there was no option to select that type of RAM in the BIOS, the true support for it wasn't there. Let's remember that FSB and memory clocks can be asynchronous, so your argument that running the bus at 266 and the RAM at 333 is useless isn't accurate. If it was, that means that buying PC133 memory for mobos that supported it, yet only supported a 100MHz FSB, would also have been useless. The point that was trying to be made was that you should not have to adjust FSB speed and PCI dividers to achieve DDR333 support; it should be a selectable option for the RAM frequency. ALi has a lot of work ahead of itself before I will recommend any mobo based on their chipsets.

 

[AMD_Man]

Yes, the ALi chip alone is a huge advantage. NO VIA BUGS!!! I'm getting sick and tried of my VIA problems and people complaining about VIA! The IWill XP333 is VIA-free, which means it's light-years ahead of any VIA-based board in stability. Also, as you said, it includes a 6-channel 5.1 on-board sound chip that could compete with an SB Live! Why would you have to melt your CPU? With an unlocked CPU, you can raise the FSB really high (assuming you have PC2700 or PC3200) and lower the multiplier and you have one hell of a performance boost. It's not just overclocking, it's the future. Think about it...by the end of this year, AMD will probably be upping the bus speed to 333MHz or 400MHz and the Iwill should be able to support this!

The reviews I just look at only compared it to it previous failures. The one that showed test had it showing the slowest of 3. None of them made any clams as you have. There is a difference between opinion and fact. Like take away the divider and the Iwill will hit the bottom of the chart. Why? Cause the VIA chip out performs it.

In your own words>>.
1. Sure the IWill XP333 has lots of jumpers
2. and it's performance is still under that of the KT266A
but it's advantages far outweigh its disadvantages, in my mind.<<

What advantages the divider? The onboard sound? The Ali chip?

They maybe on to a good ideal, but that still seems to be in question. Again were still talking about over clocking, and without that this mobo wouldn't be sh*t. Unless your a Ali lover.

I think Iwill is trying to make a name for themselves and seem to be onto something, but the only way to keep up with VIA mobo you have to melt your CPU. Since a little clocking on a VIA goes farther then the same setting on a Ali mobo.

Just my opinion, I seen you holding up a target and thought I would get some practice shots in. haha

The only thing you mentioned here is performance! I'd sacrifice a bit of performance for stability, compatibility, overclockability and future-support anyday.

You can't deny that VIA makes very buggy chipsets. ALi is known to make much better chipsets (stability and compatiblity-wise) for the Athlon.

I have a 1.2GHz Athlon right now with a 266MHz bus and it's unlocked. With an IWill XP333 I can raise the FSB to 200MHz (400MHz effective) with the best quality PC2700 or PC3000 I can find and lower the multipler to 6.5 or 7., That should make a huge performance boost without a processor upgrade.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[ejsmith2]

"You can't deny that VIA makes very buggy chipsets."

Yep, can't deny it. In fact, I'd have to agree with you. But the actual reasons for it stem back nearly 30 years.

"ALi is known to make much better chipsets (stability and compatiblity-wise) for the Athlon."

Hmmmmmmmmmm.........(like where Spock has one eyebrow raised, and Checkov is in the background saying "Weary, Weary, intoresting", while they are both staring at the science station readouts of the space-time anomaly)

 

[AMD_Man]

"ALi is known to make much better chipsets (stability and compatiblity-wise) for the Athlon."

Hmmmmmmmmmm.........(like where Spock has one eyebrow raised, and Checkov is in the background saying "Weary, Weary, intoresting", while they are both staring at the science station readouts of the space-time anomaly)

lol, ask Crashman. He'll tell you ALi make the best chipsets for the Athlon. Also, the most popular ALi Magik1-based mobo was the Asus A7A266. It was best known for it's stability and overclockability. Also, the Asus had revision B of the chipset, the Iwill has the improved revision C. While I can't tell you what exactly is improved, I do know that the Iwill XP333 is a major step up from the Asus A7A266.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[jiffy]

Where is Crashman when you need him? Does he own the Iwill?
It sounds really good AMD_Man, but I think it's still all debatable with no end. If you get the mobo I hope you do it soon, before it is out done, which is always the case. And I hope it does all you want it to do.

I'm building my koolance case, to bad I wasn't here yesterday to sign for it. So I'll be doing my own over clocking and see what happens. I'd like to unlock my XP, but not sure about that, because I haven't heard to much luck with this.


Complicated Nit Picker

 

[AMD_Man]

I've always been leary of ALi-based mobos because of drivers issues with Win9x. The situation has improved with Windows XP, but ALi still has to prove itself IMO. They have always lagged behind in performance comparisons as well. As for the issue of 'true' DDR333 support, I believe the impression was that because there was no option to select that type of RAM in the BIOS, the true support for it wasn't there. Let's remember that FSB and memory clocks can be asynchronous, so your argument that running the bus at 266 and the RAM at 333 is useless isn't accurate. If it was, that means that buying PC133 memory for mobos that supported it, yet only supported a 100MHz FSB, would also have been useless. The point that was trying to be made was that you should not have to adjust FSB speed and PCI dividers to achieve DDR333 support; it should be a selectable option for the RAM frequency. ALi has a lot of work ahead of itself before I will recommend any mobo based on their chipsets.

What driver issues? I've never heard about any drivers issue, do tell...

PC133 with a 100MHz bus works with improved performance because the 100MHz is DDR so it's running at an effective 200MHz. In this case, running the RAM at 333MHz and the bus at 266MHz is pointless, because the FSB can't feed the RAM and the processor fast enough to make 333MHz DDR RAM performance worthwhile. IMO, ALi has more than proven themselves and might be the #1 chipset of choice for the Athlon very soon.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[jiffy]

ALi has more than proven themselves and might be the #1 chipset of choice for the Athlon very soon.

Does this mean all the mobo makers are going to carry them on their slower mobo, or are they going to out perform them there too? Or are we talking about stability and not performance?

My board will whip your mobo.
Yeah, but my mobo is more stable.
I think it's funny, because there seems to be no winning, guess depends who you ask. But if your a speed freak the choice is obvious. And it stability is your thing. Well, thats' still debatable.

Doesn't the OS play any role is this stability? Since most of my problems are because of the OS. Mainly just online where I'm very inpatient.



Complicated Nit Picker

 

[Zoron]

Did I not include the word asynchronous in my statement? As is FSB is one speed, memory bus is another speed? What about Rambus PC800 memory? To my knowledge the P4 FSB is 400MHz (100MHz quad-pumped), yet you notice a sizeable performance difference between PC800 RAM and PC600 RAM. If your statement is true, the P4 bus isn't fast enough to feed either of these type of memory and therefore there should be NO performance difference.

Driver issues with ALi chipsets? How about the fact that the drivers for most components aren't even there? All I see when I look in system devices is standard PCI this, standard PCI that.. we all know that Windows' standard drivers aren't as good as those supplied by manufacturers, so why can't ALi release a full driver suite such as VIA?


As for stability issues, I have never had a problem with VIA's chipsets. I've been running this current configuration for more than a year, and never once had a crash that could be blamed on chipset issues. Since upgrading to XP, I haven't had any crashes period. ALi has a long way to go to be considered #1. Even SiS builds a better Athlon chipset... it's just too bad SiS's previous reputation still haunts it.

 

[AMD_Man]

I can't believe we are fighting over mobos...
Last I checked, almost everyone hated VIA and their data corruption and ATA133 issues and their buggy PCI implementation. You go with your mobo and I'll go with mine. If you don't agree with me then that's fine. I've had enough of trolls and in the position of seeming like one, so I'll just stop here. Sorry...

VIA bugs aren't as apparent as crashes but they can have devistating effects, that's all I'm going to say.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[AMD_Man]

Did I not include the word asynchronous in my statement? As is FSB is one speed, memory bus is another speed? What about Rambus PC800 memory? To my knowledge the P4 FSB is 400MHz (100MHz quad-pumped), yet you notice a sizeable performance difference between PC800 RAM and PC600 RAM. If your statement is true, the P4 bus isn't fast enough to feed either of these type of memory and therefore there should be NO performance difference.

Again, you are confusing DDR with SDR and with bandwidth. The P4 FSB is a 64-bit 400MHz (100MHz QDR) with a bandwidth of 3.2GB/s. PC800 runs at 800MHz (400MHz Double-pumped) on a 16-bit bus. Therefore a single channel of RDRAM supplies 1.6GB/s and dual-channel RDRAM supplies 3.2GB/s. The RAM bandwidth and FSB bandwidth matches up. That's why the P4 benefits from it. MHz is only a part of the equation. What you are suggesting is having memory running with 2.7GB/s of bandwidth on a 2.1GB/s FSB. That's nearly useless because the RAM will be waiting for hte FSB. Just look at DDR RAM with the P3, you hardly see a difference in performance!!

Driver issues with ALi chipsets? How about the fact that the drivers for most components aren't even there? All I see when I look in system devices is standard PCI this, standard PCI that.. we all know that Windows' standard drivers aren't as good as those supplied by manufacturers, so why can't ALi release a full driver suite such as VIA?

That's a good thing, not a bad thing. Standard devices are better than VIA screwed up PCI implementation.

As for stability issues, I have never had a problem with VIA's chipsets. I've been running this current configuration for more than a year, and never once had a crash that could be blamed on chipset issues. Since upgrading to XP, I haven't had any crashes period. ALi has a long way to go to be considered #1. Even SiS builds a better Athlon chipset... it's just too bad SiS's previous reputation still haunts it.

Stability in terms of crashing is not what I'm referring to. I'm referring to VIA's buggy implementation of the PCI bus. With the 686B southbridge, incorrect PCI timing could cause your data to become corrupted as you copy large amounts from drive to drive. Now, VIA still has a buggy implementation of the PCI bus. A recent example of this is the low burst rates on ATA133 drives on VIA-based mobo.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[Zoron]

Didn't mean to appear as a troll.. I was just stating the facts based upon my experiences. Again, I suppose that's all any of us can do.. one man's crap is another man's treasure... if one thing works for someone it's great, if the same thing doesn't for another it's crap. All I was saying is that from my experience, VIA's chipsets have been good for me, and ALi's chipsets have been bad for me. If your mobo is working great for you, then that's fine... all the power to you. My mobo works great for me and that's also fine. I have VIA's KT133 chipset currently, and I haven't had any experience with the newer ones, so I really can't say anything about them; however based on my experiences, when I upgrade, I will probably be getting another board based on a VIA chipset.

 

[Zoron]

LOL... back and forth, back and forth... we could go on for weeks like this. Ah well.. I suppose one reason I have never noticed the bug you talk about is that I'm using my onboard Promise controller (Asus A7V) instead of the integrated chipset one. I will keep my eye on these situations as I know quite a few people who now have Asus A7V266-E mobos as well as others based on the same KT266A chipset. If I hear of any problems, I will definately reconsider my position. Thank you for the wonderful debate so far.. I've enjoyed it.

 

[AMD_Man]

Didn't mean to appear as a troll..

Hardly, I meant that I don't want to appear as a closed minded troll. Hey, I have a stable KT133A mobo here, but although it "appears" stable, I'm always having the pleasure of seeing VIA's hiccups. 7 months ago, I tried installing a SoundBlaster AWE32 in my ISA slot. Guess what? It fried the mobo! I returned it and got another one. Another fried mobo! "Ohh, well," I thought, "I'll just get a new sound card and speakers." I bought a SoundBlaster Live! 5.1...and guess what? Popping and crackling all over the place. Sure, it's not only VIA's fault but VIA's PCI implementation hates PCI bandwidth hogs. Sure, I returned it for a Turtle Beach Santa Cruz. At that time all was well! A couple of months later, some of my files that I had copied from a CD seemed corrupted and yet they were fine on the CD-RW! VIA bug? Seems like it... I installed Windows XP with the latest VIA 4-in-1s and my burst rate as well as sustained disk read rate is down! A VIA bug? Definitely! All this without crashing! Isn't my system stable? I can keep running it for day but I'm covered with VIA's neat little glitches. Any stability test you run would probably pass on my system but VIA's bugs aren't so clear; they hide away, mischevously waiting to attack you when you least expect it!

Will the average user notice these VIA glitches? Probably not, but as I stress my system to the max on a daily basis, I have been bitten once too many times by VIA. I'll gladly sacrifice (actually since I'm on an SDRAM system, it's still an improvement) performance to make these glitches go away.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor

 

[jiffy]

I can't believe we are fighting over mobos...

I wasn't fighting or trolling, because I wasn't really comparing the Iwill mobo with anything els, just saying that's one h*ll of a clam for you to make. I ask for proof, but didn't really get any, none of those sights back you up to your clams.

As for almost everyone hating VIA that seems like a large order to fill too. Would that mean almost everybody uses other then VIA, or use it, but don't like it? I must of missed that vote.
Peace

Complicated Nit Picker

 

[OldBear]

I also have an Asus A7V266-E w/XP1800+. It is very stable and I have had no problems at all.
I loaded WinXP and used the VIA drivers that come with WinXP. If I have any hiccups I will
post.

<font color=blue>Remember.... You get what you pay for. All advice here is free.</font color=blue>