Question Does anyone here experienced this kind of Windows Crash Behavior?

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innova3di

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Jul 16, 2015
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OS: Windows 10 Version 20H2 (OS Build 19042.1052)
System either Freezes completely or Gradually Freezes (No Disk LED Activity)

Gradual Crash Behaviors (No BSOD) not in particular order:
  1. Mouse/Keyboard input misses
  2. Freezes gradually as you work and navigate through apps/programs.
  3. PC eventually becomes unworkable as every program you switch into becomes unresponsive.
  4. Task Manager stops updating and eventually freezes.
  5. Trying to shutdown only to be stuck in the "shutting down.. " screen.

Things I have already tried:
  1. Check Disk via Disk Properties (No Errors Found)
  2. Check Disk via Command Line (Fixed C Drive)
  3. Executed "sfc /scannow" (Curruptions Found and Fixed)
  4. Running Windows Memory Diagnostic Tool (No Errors Found)
  5. Turned off "Fast Startup" under "Power Options > Shutdown Settings"
  6. Full scanned using Windows Defender (No Threats Found)
  7. Replaced Wireless Mouse with Wired
  8. Switch Mouse and Keyboard to different ports

Things I want to try next:
  1. Install Zorin OS (Linux Distro) to see if same crash behavior happens.
  2. Reinstall Windows 10

Note that the Crash Behavior is unpredictable and hard to reproduce.
But, I have observed it will most likely to occur when I download something big from Steam/MS Store.

Are there better ways to know what the problem is before I reinstall the OS?

I might try Zorin first but it doesn't have a hibernate option right out of the box.

Crash Footage:
View: https://youtu.be/E_oWyTfD5XU


Specs:
----------------------------
MB: MSI B450i Gaming Plus AC
CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600
RAM: HyperX Fury RGB 2x8GB Kit
GPU: Sapphire Pulse RX 580 8GB OC Lite
OS Drive: PNY XLR8 CS3030 500GB M.2 NVMe SSD
Backup Drive: SanDisk SSD Plus 240GB SATA SSD
PSU: Gigabyte P550B 550Watts Non-Modular (80+ Bronze)
Case: NZXT H210 (Mini-ITX)

Pheripherals:
---------------------
Wired Mouse: Logitech G102
Wireless Mouse: A4Tech G3-200N
KeyBoard: Rakk Kimat XT.LE
 
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punkncat

punkncat

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Check Event Viewer and Reliability History. See what that tells you.

sfc scan is a super handy tool but often it will find errors that may or may not have impact on the real situation. If you have an unstable system crashing all the time or having to be manually power cycled it can lead to corruption and a cascading instability.

IMO:
Go in and reset CMOS/load defaults for OC/XMP (etc.) IE. turn them off

Check to see if there is a newer and relevant BIOS update for your specific hardware*

Last "simple" resort you might try to refresh the windows install. Hopefully this was not an OS you brought from another system....as that causes issues.



* I had an issue surrounding an upgrade to a 2700X from a 1700 on an X370 motherboard. I ended up essentially building an entire other system with all the things I tried towards correcting it's (very similar) behavior. As a total last ditch effort I loaded a BIOS that was beyond the recommended for the generation CPU I am using, and the entire issue resolved. Be aware that making a decision like that can result in bricking a motherboard, possibly even damaging a CPU. If you CHOOSE to go beyond a recommended BIOS level, be aware that you might have to come out of pocket $......In my own case the system was nearly unusable from a reliability standpoint, so I was willing to risk having to go backwards into components I have on had, and start over (or buy new).

EDIT- all of the above is based on a consideration that you are monitoring temps and your system isn't overheating/throttling, and that there are no other intervening factors such as undesired CPU or RAM usage, a virus, and so on.
 
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innova3di

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Jul 16, 2015
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punkncat said:
Check Event Viewer and Reliability History. See what that tells you.

sfc scan is a super handy tool but often it will find errors that may or may not have impact on the real situation. If you have an unstable system crashing all the time or having to be manually power cycled it can lead to corruption and a cascading instability.

IMO:
Go in and reset CMOS/load defaults for OC/XMP (etc.) IE. turn them off

Check to see if there is a newer and relevant BIOS update for your specific hardware*

Last "simple" resort you might try to refresh the windows install. Hopefully this was not an OS you brought from another system....as that causes issues.



* I had an issue surrounding an upgrade to a 2700X from a 1700 on an X370 motherboard. I ended up essentially building an entire other system with all the things I tried towards correcting it's (very similar) behavior. As a total last ditch effort I loaded a BIOS that was beyond the recommended for the generation CPU I am using, and the entire issue resolved. Be aware that making a decision like that can result in bricking a motherboard, possibly even damaging a CPU. If you CHOOSE to go beyond a recommended BIOS level, be aware that you might have to come out of pocket $......In my own case the system was nearly unusable from a reliability standpoint, so I was willing to risk having to go backwards into components I have on had, and start over (or buy new).

EDIT- all of the above is based on a consideration that you are monitoring temps and your system isn't overheating/throttling, and that there are no other intervening factors such as undesired CPU or RAM usage, a virus, and so on.
Click to expand...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Here is the Event Log
Notice that I have three errors before the last Critical log registered.

Those three are the ff:
  1. The previous system shutdown at 8:02:11 pm on ‎03/‎07/‎2021 was unexpected.
  2. A fatal error occurred while creating a TLS client credential. The internal error state is 10013.
  3. Audit events have been dropped by the transport. 0
Here is the Reliability History from my last crash.

My last crash happened 6 days ago, same day as the Critical log.
Note that is last crash is not gradual, the system froze completely on the Lock Screen while downloading from Steam in the background.

What do you mean by "having to be manually power cycled" ?

"Go in and reset CMOS/load defaults for OC/XMP (etc.) IE. turn them off"
I did not touch OC/XMP. Even if I want to reset CMOS, It's very hard to reach. I need to plug a wired switch to it first to short the CMOS headers.

"Check to see if there is a newer and relevant BIOS update for your specific hardware*"
There is. I might consider doing this despite being hesitant. Power interruptions is very common in my place. I'll just pray my UPS can back my system up in case of Power Loss.

"Last "simple" resort you might try to refresh the windows install. Hopefully this was not an OS you brought from another system....as that causes issues."
I had my Win10 Installer as Fresh Copy not a Clone from another system. I think I'll do reinstalling first.

"As a total last ditch effort I loaded a BIOS that was beyond the recommended for the generation CPU I am using"
Does this mean for example flashing a BIOS made for 4th Gen (5000 series) on a board that only holds 2nd Gen (2700X)? Does your X370 even provide the BIOS your flashing on their support site?

I have my temps monitored. All of them are normal. But, I do hear my fans sounding like a Blow Dryer on rare occasions when gaming. They stop making noise when I switch out of the game. I can't seem to determine which fan is making the loud noise but my readings are only 2200-2500 RPM. I know what 2500 RPM sounds like, and its definitely does not sound like a Blow Dryer.
 
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punkncat

punkncat

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Manually power cycled, like you had to physically hold the power button or hit a switch to get it to power down after the lock ups.

If you don't have reliable power DO NOT attempt to install a BIOS revision. IF the power fails while you are performing said, it will brick your motherboard. Find reliable power or a battery backup rated for your system before attempting that update.

As a for instance about the BIOS...there are several revisions that the notes from the manufacturer state they don't recommend unless you are using (newer) CPU. In my case the issue was so bad that I went ahead and tried, and it luckily worked. I haven't gone so far as to try unsupported or beta BIOS, such as the 5xxx series you mention.

Event log 6008 is a critical and unexpected shutdown by way of a critical thermal event (or a hardware failure).

Event log 36871 seems to be related to a TPM error. I am not certain I understand all of the implications there. Just the mention of it and with the requirement from 11 for said, have you been doing anything to this system in reference to Win 11 readiness?

Event 1101 and 41 are logs from improper shutdown. 41 itself can be related to a failing PSU, but will also log any time the system shuts down outside of the restart or shutdown command. Event 1101 states "dirty shutdown".

The Reliability History is just restating the unexpected nature of the shutdown.

A couple of things:
The RX580 wants a minimum power supply of 500W, so IF your 550 is starting to have issue it could be a contributing factor. I am not sure I would suggest purchase of another PSU, but it could be something to consider.

Drop a side panel and aim a fan directly in, onto the motherboard VRM area if you can get that specific and see if the issue changes.
 
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innova3di

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Jul 16, 2015
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"As a for instance about the BIOS...there are several revisions that the notes from the manufacturer state they don't recommend unless you are using (newer) CPU."
I'm not sure if MSI do make notes like this. I am only using Zen+ chip (2nd Gen) and my board supports Zen 2 (3rd Gen). The BIOS update level for 3rd Gen chips was 5 updates below. My board is already 5 updates above since the update for 3rd Gen support. As of now, there are two updates above my current BIOS released by MSI. Do you consider this as not recommended as I am using an older CPU?

All of the Critical and Error Event Log IDs seems to be related from the Manual Power Cycle you mentioned. As I am physically holding the power button in my case until it turns off. I may need to track the Logs first before forcing my system to shut off (to see if this is indeed a Hardware Issue related log).

"have you been doing anything to this system in reference to Win 11 readiness?"
I'm not interested in Win 11 just yet. Probably my system is. Does Win 11 upgrade happens automatically after installing the updates that this Win10 Build has? I am purposely delaying the update installation for now as I don't want my system to restart as it lessens the likelihood of it crashing.

Regarding the PSU, this is a newly build system (all parts are new). Is it possible to get a bad PSU even if I got it brand new? But I agree, this could be something to consider.

Is this board's VRM? Sorry, I am rather new/ignorant to this.
 
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