Does Dell make its own motherboards?

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In article <MPG.1c451f98d8cb620e989dee@news-server.columbus.rr.com>,
void@nowhere.lan, a.k.a Leythos says...

[...]

> When it comes to home computers, sure, Dell is not going to sell you a
> bleeding edge system as cheap as you can buy the parts yourself, but
> they will get the OS and Apps cheaper as well as many of the extras. The
> big place they get the self-builder is the apps and support/warranty.


Are you 'talking' about the situation from outside the UK?

I ask because your suggestion/experience of Dell has no reflection on
what it's like in the UK (Britain)

 

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On Tue, 4 Jan 2005 17:03:14 -0000, Tx2 <tx2newscollection@hotmail.com>
wrote:

<snip>

>Sourcing and installing still apply with the Dell (let alone how long
>you take checking and double checking the specs before you hit "BUY")
>
>Of course, you haven't factored in the time you'd spend on the phone to
>Dell trying to convince them an engineer is needed when it goes wrong,
>with them arguing the toss, etc etc etc.

Of course it depends too on the service level you have purchased and
the system. i.e. I would tend to go for Dell and the like for servers
where you can just phone up and say "I want an engineer over here in 4
hrs", swap the unit out if necessary and install a system backup
rather than spending a day with the server down.

For a small business where the IT person is the secretary who knows
how to swap tapes over and thats about it, this sort of service level
is a reasonable compromise over having a company on retainer for call
out support.

As you say though getting an engineer out can sometimes be
problematic. I've been finding their call center problematic at times.
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> Essentially, don't count on being able to change out the motherboard in
> the original case..

We had a similar discussions just before Christmas. Dell UK had a stunningly
good offer available which for £420 got you a fast Celeron, 256MB, 80GB HDD,
17" TFT, printer & DVD-writer. When I looked at reviews of this obviously
low-budget system, I can to the same conclusion that it's not very
upgradable. Only thing I wished it had was an AGP graphics port which meant
you were stuck with the on-board graphics card.

But when I did the math, it worked out that even if you threw away the
entire base unit less the HDD, the rest of the bits bought separately came
very closed to the £420 price, esp. considering the 17" TFT.

So what I said was "if you need to upgrade, don't worry about throwing the
base unit away - you almost got it for free anyway".

Just how they are making money, I just don't know 🙂

Rob.

 

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> If your ever considering "looking under the bonnet", or peeking at the
> BIOS - don't do Dell!

But if you want a well built system with good specification at a low price,
then do seriously consider Dell. For the majority of the market out there
who just want it to work, Dell fits the mark.

I used to build PCs for friends and family. Don't bother anymore if they're
looking for a new system - can't beat Dell on price esp. when you add in the
operating system (which lots of home builders seem to forget 🙂 and the
hassle factor is so much less.

Rob.

 

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> Anybody that buys a brand name computer is an idiot.
> Build it yourself using good brand name hardware and build it the way you
> want it. You will be very pleased with the results.

Are you serious?? 🙂 I would estimate a very high percentage of PCs are
bought by non-technical users who just want to plug it in and go. Building
your PC from parts, whilst not exactly difficult, is occasionally fraught
with difficulties. Like the questions & problems that this group is filled
with.

And on price, I'm not sure anymore that a custom build PC to the same
specification is any cheaper when bought in components. This doesn't include
my time as well.

Rob.

 

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> chosen to buy in some Dell PCs for the office. One reason might be that I
> am, as you say, an idiot. The other reason might be that the Dells do the
> job I need for the office, and they cost 20% less to buy in ready-built
> than the price at which I can buy the parts.

20%? Yes, that probably sounds about right. We've only built one custom PC
at work (a dual Athlon XP system) and we've had no end of problems with it -
it's always got the top off 🙂 The Dell PCs & servers just sit there and
work 24/7.

Rob.

 

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>20% for not being able to support them *properly* when the machine goes
>down is worth it is it?

Dell kit is incredibly reliable mainly because you don't mess around with
it. The only Dell hardware we've had fail is a CD-ROM and video output from
one laptop. Compared to the Compaq iPAQ that litereraly blew up, the custom
built Gigabyte system that decided to stop working with WD hard disk and
won't run through the KVM, the 3 Toshiba laptops that have developed several
faults etc...

If one of the Dell base units failed, we wouldn't bother trying to fix it.
We'd simply buy a new base unit for ~£200. £200 doesn't buy you a lot of
"fixing" time and you'll have a nice new higher-spec box anyway.

Rob.

 

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>I can build and have a system up and running in about half a day.

And what about time spent purchasing the components and did that include the
operating system and software?? What about those times when you got an
awkward new motherboard which didn't work with a component?

And don't get me started if one of the components was DOA! Getting the
supermarket suppliers like Dabs & Insight to replace them is a nightmare...

Rob.

 

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> As you say though getting an engineer out can sometimes be
> problematic. I've been finding their call center problematic at times.

Dell's customer care did go down hill last year, about the same time they
outsourced to India... I believe there have been so many complaints that
this is under review. We had one particularly hilarious support job where we
just wanted a missing CD-ROM for a laptop (it was missing on delivery). The
probably spent more time on the support call than the £1 CD-ROM.

But compared to Gigabyte support...

Rob.

 

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>> "But I have 3 year on-site warranty" you say
>
> For what Dell charge? You must be joking! 🙂

We don't bother with the 3 year on-site warranty except for the servers -
one year RTB is fine. For desktops and even laptops it just doesn't make
financial sense. For the occasional system that might fail, then just buy
another one. 2 x new systems in a 50 user site compared to 50 x 3 year
warranty - you do the math 🙂

Rob.

 

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> I have the impression (correct me if I am wrong) that the component
> qulaity and the build quality of a Dell is pretty decent. Sure it is

The build quality is probably unmatched. Laptops are a bit less reliable but
then again, they always are...

Rob.

 

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On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 10:04:54 GMT, "Rob Nicholson"
<rob.nicholson@nospam_unforgettable.com> wrote:

>> chosen to buy in some Dell PCs for the office. One reason might be that I
>> am, as you say, an idiot. The other reason might be that the Dells do the
>> job I need for the office, and they cost 20% less to buy in ready-built
>> than the price at which I can buy the parts.
>
>20%? Yes, that probably sounds about right. We've only built one custom PC
>at work (a dual Athlon XP system) and we've had no end of problems with it -
>it's always got the top off 🙂 The Dell PCs & servers just sit there and
>work 24/7.

This is the thing with Dell compareed to many self builds. Dell go for
reasonable quality components that are not pushing too hard but are
stable. They have checked for compatibility so you known there most
likley won't be odd conflicts (at least at the driver release you
get).

How many people self build a server with a hot swap SCSI array and hot
swap redundant power supplies? Thats the sort of area where Dell is
good..
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> .... does that translate into "no one ever got fired for buying an IBM"
> 😱)))))))))

Do they still make Thinkpads themselves? I know they've just sold the entire
PC arm to a company in China.

Rob.

 

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> I ask because your suggestion/experience of Dell has no reflection on
> what it's like in the UK (Britain)

Eh? Software purchased with a Dell PC (i.e. Windows XP Professional & Office
2003) is always cheaper than purchased separately, unless you have a huge
license agreement.

Rob.

 

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> 1, the CPU cooler consisted of a green plastic duct over the metalwork
> led to a 120 mm fan on the rear, nice and quiet.

Those are nice aren't they - I'd never class Dell PCs as loud. Compared to
some of their rack mount servers which sound like a jumbo jet 🙂

> 2, No AGP socket - the solder pads are there on the board, but no
> socket. This one had onboard graphics. If you wanted to upgrade to
> decent graphics you'd have to use a PCI card.

Out of interest, what's the performance of a PCI graphics card compared to
an AGP one?

Rob.

 

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In article <60PCd.43$iX.5@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
rob.nicholson@nospam_unforgettable.com, a.k.a Rob Nicholson says...


> Dell kit is incredibly reliable ...

My experience with Dell differs, both from the point of sale, and
getting support on both warranty and out of warranty machines.

Try telling the totally crippled & disabled lady in the wheelchair who's
lifeline was/is the internet, that her 14 month old Dell is completely
knackered and there's nothing you can do 'off the shelf' because it's a
Dell, like I had to do last month.

Dell wouldn't take on the repair. It needed a replacement mainboard.
Her son purchased a 2nd user IBM Aptiva off me which AFAIK, is still
working.

Try apologising to a guy for recommending Dell to him when he needed an
urgent but budget replacement PC, and who then had an awful experience
with Dell sales, giving him the complete run-around, so much so he
wasted more time than if he'd gone to Dixons and bought a Packard Bell.
He was not impressed with my 'recommendation'... I swore never to do so
again as my reputation had been 'tarnished'.

Get told by Dell support to 'pull' a machine apart on the bedroom floor
when on the phone to them.

I was at a clients to try and solve a non-booting system, called Dell
Tech Support as the thing was under warranty and needed an engineer. The
OP i spoke to had me (she thought I was a non technical customer)
pulling out memory, CMOS battery, unplugging this, unplugging that ...
all on a nylon bedroom carpet with no anti-stat procedures. Eventually,
I held my hands up in despair and handed the phone to the actual owner
of the machine who really lost it on the phone with the OP. I know not
the outcome as I got paid for my time, and left.

My homebuilt PC here is very reliable, it cost more than a Dell would,
but I know I can repair it the same day if any hardware fails. Keeping
it up and running is a damn site more important to me than saving £100
and then faffing around trying to get Dell to fix it.

> If one of the Dell base units failed, we wouldn't bother trying to fix it..
> We'd simply buy a new base unit for ~£200. £200 doesn't buy you a lot of
> "fixing" time and you'll have a nice new higher-spec box anyway.

Nice to have the budget ... I could fix my PC here for a *lot* less than
£200 though.

Each to their own of course, but I won't personally buy or recommend
Dell through my own bad experiences with them.

 

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In article <P1PCd.47$iX.40@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
rob.nicholson@nospam_unforgettable.com, a.k.a Rob Nicholson says...


> And what about time spent purchasing the components and did that include the
> operating system and software?? What about those times when you got an
> awkward new motherboard which didn't work with a component?

I already posted I could buy, build, and have a system up and running in
a day. I've done it. There's nothing to it.

Buying a Dell still involves time.

Why would I buy an awkward motherboard in the first place? I'd buy brand
name, based on experience and reviews. Not some godforsaken name i'd
never heard of from some 'geezer' at the local fair.

> And don't get me started if one of the components was DOA!

Dell aren't excluded from supplying DOA systems.

> Getting the supermarket suppliers like Dabs & Insight
> to replace them is a nightmare...

And it's not with Dell?

The point is, if a component is DOA, I can, if need be, nip down my
local store and get a replacement, then sort out the RMA with the online
supplier. I'd be entitled to a full refund at that early stage, so I
wouldn't be seeking a replacement.

Look, at the end of the day, you are never going to convince me that
Dell is a better option as my experience begs to differ. I appreciate
that there are situations where Dell is the preferred option based on
cost, but I tend to look beyond budget due the experiences I've had with
Dell, and as such, they aren't a manufacturer i will use.

You'll go blue before I'm convinced otherwise.

 

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In article <QaPCd.57$iX.14@newsfe3-win.ntli.net>,
rob.nicholson@nospam_unforgettable.com, a.k.a Rob Nicholson says...

> > I ask because your suggestion/experience of Dell has no reflection on
> > what it's like in the UK (Britain)
>
> Eh? Software purchased with a Dell PC (i.e. Windows XP Professional & Office
> 2003) is always cheaper than purchased separately, unless you have a huge
> license agreement

I wasn't talking exclusively about software licensing.

 

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In article <MPG.1c45c189de0fefae989edb@news.individual.net>,
tx2newscollection@hotmail.com says...
> In article <MPG.1c451f98d8cb620e989dee@news-server.columbus.rr.com>,
> void@nowhere.lan, a.k.a Leythos says...
>
> [...]
>
> > When it comes to home computers, sure, Dell is not going to sell you a
> > bleeding edge system as cheap as you can buy the parts yourself, but
> > they will get the OS and Apps cheaper as well as many of the extras. The
> > big place they get the self-builder is the apps and support/warranty.
>
>
> Are you 'talking' about the situation from outside the UK?
>
> I ask because your suggestion/experience of Dell has no reflection on
> what it's like in the UK (Britain)

And how does it differ in the UK? If you're going to suggest that it's
different in the UK you should give specific examples of how it differs.


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In article <MPG.1c459cacf608225c989df3@news-server.columbus.rr.com>,
void@nowhere.lan, a.k.a Leythos says...

> In article <MPG.1c45c189de0fefae989edb@news.individual.net>,
> tx2newscollection@hotmail.com says...

> > I ask because your suggestion/experience of Dell has no reflection on
> > what it's like in the UK (Britain)
>
> And how does it differ in the UK? If you're going to suggest that it's
> different in the UK you should give specific examples of how it differs.

I have given examples of my experience with Dell in the UK via another
posting, and I believe there have been other posts made reflecting such
from other users in this thread.

You suggested the "big place they get the self-builder is the apps and
support/warranty"

Whilst they may be able to secure better pricing on apps, their support,
IME, is not up to the standard you reflect it as being wherever you are
located.

They are a big organisation, and IME, it is rare for big organisations
to give as good as, and certainly not better, support than your local
independent self-builder.

FTR, I am discussing Dell from a self-build angle, and not cutting edge
technology servers et al, of which i have no experience.

 

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On Wed, 5 Jan 2005 12:00:20 -0000, Tx2 <tx2newscollection@hotmail.com>
wrote:

<snip>

>Whilst they may be able to secure better pricing on apps, their support,
>IME, is not up to the standard you reflect it as being wherever you are
>located.
>
>They are a big organisation, and IME, it is rare for big organisations
>to give as good as, and certainly not better, support than your local
>independent self-builder.

Of course thats assuming that the self builder is never going to go on
say a 1 or 2 week holiday, say leaving the company the self built
machine for in the lurch until they get back.

Or say the builder is out fixing another machine whilst one fails and
is unable to get there the same day to fix that one as its a one man
business.

>FTR, I am discussing Dell from a self-build angle, and not cutting edge
>technology servers et al, of which i have no experience.

Servers can be self built, but unless you understand the technology
beind them I wouldn't recomend it. They don't tend to be cutting edge
technology anyway, better to be just behind the curve and have kit
that is tried and tested to be compatible, stable and robust.

I guess you are talking more from the perspective desk top PC in an
environment that can cope with it being out for a day or more, e.g. a
business non PC centric or a home user.


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In article <MPG.1c45e73111b7429d989ee3@news.individual.net>,
tx2newscollection@hotmail.com says...
> You suggested the "big place they get the self-builder is the apps and
> support/warranty"
>
> Whilst they may be able to secure better pricing on apps, their support,
> IME, is not up to the standard you reflect it as being wherever you are
> located.

The price difference on their apps can make a huge difference in pricing
to the customers. Since you appear to have not purchased GOLD level
support from Dell you might want to reconsider - a gold plan can be
purchased for as little as $49/US here and makes a big difference in
support. As for home/store the support difference is large. A home
builder has NO support for hardware or APPs - the Dell buyer has both.

> They are a big organisation, and IME, it is rare for big organisations
> to give as good as, and certainly not better, support than your local
> independent self-builder.

And most every small shop is almost always on a brake-even sales slide
and support, for free, is something they can't afford to provide. Most
small shops are stocked with kids that know less than your average
support script reader from Dell's off-shore unit.

> FTR, I am discussing Dell from a self-build angle, and not cutting edge
> technology servers et al, of which i have no experience.

So am I. I bought about 1.3 million in Dell servers and workstations
last year, got great prices and support for every one of them for the
clients that needed support. They would not have saved ANY money going
in the home/self build route. You appear to be missing the reason why
people buy Dell's and others.

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"Tx2" <tx2newscollection@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c45e73111b7429d989ee3@news.individual.net...
>
> I have given examples of my experience with Dell in the UK via another
> posting, and I believe there have been other posts made reflecting such
> from other users in this thread.
>

I can well believe the difficulties you mention with Dell.

However, on the plus side, they do at least test-run the systems before
shipping them, so that cuts down some of the problems. All the components in
the system are tested first by the manufacturers and then by Dell when they
test-run the system.

If you buy your components from an online supplier, you are of course having
to deal with *their* often shitty customer services if you have a problem. I
have had more duff components than duff fully-built PCs because the PCs go
through the second stage of testing. I am sure that you do the same when you
build a system for a customer, so I am not suggesting that Dell are doing
anything particularly clever here.

Geoff

 

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"Leythos" <void@nowhere.lan> wrote in message
news:MPG.1c45a8bbeaed2c7c989df4@news-server.columbus.rr.com...
> In article <MPG.1c45e73111b7429d989ee3@news.individual.net>,
> tx2newscollection@hotmail.com says...
>> You suggested the "big place they get the self-builder is the apps and
>> support/warranty"
>>
>> Whilst they may be able to secure better pricing on apps, their support,
>> IME, is not up to the standard you reflect it as being wherever you are
>> located.
>
> The price difference on their apps can make a huge difference in pricing
> to the customers. Since you appear to have not purchased GOLD level
> support from Dell you might want to reconsider - a gold plan can be
> purchased for as little as $49/US here and makes a big difference in
> support. As for home/store the support difference is large. A home
> builder has NO support for hardware or APPs - the Dell buyer has both.
>
>> They are a big organisation, and IME, it is rare for big organisations
>> to give as good as, and certainly not better, support than your local
>> independent self-builder.
>
> And most every small shop is almost always on a brake-even sales slide
> and support, for free, is something they can't afford to provide. Most
> small shops are stocked with kids that know less than your average
> support script reader from Dell's off-shore unit.
>
>> FTR, I am discussing Dell from a self-build angle, and not cutting edge
>> technology servers et al, of which i have no experience.
>
> So am I. I bought about 1.3 million in Dell servers and workstations
> last year, got great prices and support for every one of them for the
> clients that needed support. They would not have saved ANY money going
> in the home/self build route. You appear to be missing the reason why
> people buy Dell's and others.
>
> --
> --
> spamfree999@rrohio.com
> (Remove 999 to reply to me)

I personally wouldn't buy Dell or any other brand name for a home PC.

OTOH, I would buy Dell or a brand name for corporate use and that's what
most companies do because they get the economies of scale and they do get
good support but Dell and others just don't give that sort of backing to the
home user. Remember that if one of your machines goes down and you're a
company with 5 or 10+ machines you're gonna lose a relatively low percentage
of your productivity for a relatively short space of time. If your home PC
goes tits up you'll lose 100% for at least a few days, sometimes weeks.

If Dell sold home machines with standard components for a realistic price
then I might be interested but what Dell have tried to do, and fortunately
failed IMO to achieve is total market domination by cutting their margins to
the bone in order to price competitors out.

Also bear in mind that here in the UK we often get a much poorer deal than
US customers in terms of service and price for reasons that are far too sad
to debate in this thread so please don't assume you can purchase uprated
support services at bargain prices because we often don't have access to
those options or those prices.

 

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If you want a GOOD computer, assembly one your own.
If you want a regular generic computer with low life spam, buy one from dell
or compac or any damn griffe.

"Lem" <z@mail.com> escreveu na mensagem
news:95D3C039A8FB6D5E712@130.133.1.4...
> Do all Dell PCs (for the UK market) come with Dell's own
> motherboards?
>
> I am thinking of getting a Dell but I don't want to find that it uses
> a Dell proprietary motherboard that may have little technical data
> available.
>
> ISTR hearing that Dell used a non-standad wiring on the 20 or 24 pin
> mobo power connector. And I imagine there may be several other Dell
> quirks.
>