[DoomRL] Idea about difficulty levels

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Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Well, I was pondering with the fact that some people consider DoomRL too
easy and some say it's ok, and with the rquest of difficulty levels. I came
up with a crazy idea (all my ideas that appear four in the morning are
crazy) that could be implemented as a seperate play mode (additionaly to a
normal mode in DoomRL), that might be implemented. The system is very simple
indeed.

The system tracks the players deaths and wins. Let's say the standard
difficulty in a scale of 1-9 is 3. If now the player dies 5 times, the
difficulty will fall to two. Another five deaths will bring him to
difficulty one. A win always pulls you one level up and resets the death
counter. To maintain some steadiness, i think that above level 3 the number
of needed deaths to drop a level should increase -- 10 for level 4, 15 for
level 6 etc -- this way, the pro's will be constantly fighting between level
7-8 (or like that) having the game challenge them, while the newbies will be
able to achieve a vitory eventualy (on level one).

The game would keep the player updated on his level, and number of deaths
needed to drop. "Well, I'll give you 3 more chances". "Hmm, that was to
easy, try to beat me on level 7!". Also the mortem.txt would reflect the
difficulty level of the player. And beaating the game at level 9 would
introduce an alternative ending :-D

I'm open to discussion, what do you think about that?

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> The system tracks the players deaths and wins. Let's say the standard
> difficulty in a scale of 1-9 is 3. If now the player dies 5 times, the
> difficulty will fall to two. Another five deaths will bring him to
> difficulty one. A win always pulls you one level up and resets the
> death counter. To maintain some steadiness, i think that above level
> 3 the number of needed deaths to drop a level should increase -- 10
> for level 4, 15 for level 6 etc -- this way, the pro's will be
> constantly fighting between level 7-8 (or like that) having the game
> challenge them, while the newbies will be able to achieve a vitory
> eventualy (on level one).

> regards,
> Kornel Kisielewicz

I like this. What specifically would you change difficulty wise though?
Another thought, you might want to wait a bit, until you finish implementing
new weapons, tweaked (weakened?) traits, new monsters, monster swarms, new
levels, changed level progression... all of that could have a serious impact
on difficulty.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> Well, I was pondering with the fact that some people consider DoomRL
too
> easy and some say it's ok, and with the rquest of difficulty levels.
I came
> up with a crazy idea (all my ideas that appear four in the morning
are
> crazy) that could be implemented as a seperate play mode (additionaly
to a
> normal mode in DoomRL), that might be implemented. The system is very
simple
> indeed.
>
> The system tracks the players deaths and wins. Let's say the standard

> difficulty in a scale of 1-9 is 3. If now the player dies 5 times,
the
> difficulty will fall to two. Another five deaths will bring him to
> difficulty one. A win always pulls you one level up and resets the
death
> counter. To maintain some steadiness, i think that above level 3 the
number
> of needed deaths to drop a level should increase -- 10 for level 4,
15 for
> level 6 etc -- this way, the pro's will be constantly fighting
between level
> 7-8 (or like that) having the game challenge them, while the newbies
will be
> able to achieve a vitory eventualy (on level one).
>
> The game would keep the player updated on his level, and number of
deaths
> needed to drop. "Well, I'll give you 3 more chances". "Hmm, that was
to
> easy, try to beat me on level 7!". Also the mortem.txt would reflect
the
> difficulty level of the player. And beaating the game at level 9
would
> introduce an alternative ending :-D
>
> I'm open to discussion, what do you think about that?
>
> regards,
> Kornel Kisielewicz


Isn't it a problem if you have multiple people playing the same copy of
the game? If I, Bob, am playing on Level 8, and my 12-year-old daughter
Susie tries DoomRL one day, she'd immediately get caned...
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz schrieb:
> I'm open to discussion, what do you think about that?

Nice idea!
Now if all rl´s would go that rule.... 😉

So Long, The Werelion!
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

#### The only sign of human I found in the Caverns of Chaos
..@.. are those ancient runes engraved on one of the walls by
#### Kornel Kisielewicz on 30.01.2005 20:14 :

> I'm open to discussion, what do you think about that?

Nice, but one thing bugs me. If you loose your DRL setting you will have
to go start from the beginning. How about allowing player to choose
difficulty level when starting new game and only suggesting that this
level would be appropriate for him?

--
Tomasz "Warui" Nowakowski
RLDev L:C++ E+ T- R-- P+ D+ G+ F:ADOM RL--- RLA--
all RLDev work suspended
W:F Q+ AI+ GFX- !SFX RN++ PO--- Hp+++ Re- S+
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:14:30 +0100, "Kornel Kisielewicz"
<kisielewicz@gazeta.pl> wrote:

>I'm open to discussion, what do you think about that?

Seems overly complicated to me and introduces possible problems. What
if more than one player is using the same copy of DoomRL? What if I
take a six month break and come back for a quick game and don't really
want to play at level 8 because I'm rusty? Why not implement some
difficulty levels and trust players to figure out what level they
should play at? Especially since desired degree of challenge differs
between players and even the same player at different times. (E.g., if
I'm playing DoomRL because I'm home sick and bored and don't want to
kill my Crawl character by playing when sick, I probably don't want to
play at highest difficulty if I normally do.)

R. Dan Henry
danhenry@inreach.com
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Tomasz "Warui" Nowakowski wrote:
> #### The only sign of human I found in the Caverns of Chaos
> .@.. are those ancient runes engraved on one of the walls by
> #### Kornel Kisielewicz on 30.01.2005 20:14 :
>
>> I'm open to discussion, what do you think about that?
>
> Nice, but one thing bugs me. If you loose your DRL setting you will
> have to go start from the beginning.

If you're good then you can easily come back to the level of choice. It's
like saying "One thing bug's me -- if I loose my Angband player, I wont be
able to play on level 50". I don't think finishing Angband would be much
faster then finishing DoomRL level 9 ;-)

> How about allowing player to
> choose difficulty level when starting new game and only suggesting
> that this level would be appropriate for him?

Maybe a possibility to start directly from level 6 if desired.

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Antoine wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
> Isn't it a problem if you have multiple people playing the same copy
> of the game? If I, Bob, am playing on Level 8, and my 12-year-old
> daughter Susie tries DoomRL one day, she'd immediately get caned...

She can play the normal mode. Or if enough people ask me, there will be
"accounts" ;-)

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Marcus wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:
>> The system tracks the players deaths and wins. Let's say the standard
>> difficulty in a scale of 1-9 is 3. If now the player dies 5 times,
>> the difficulty will fall to two. Another five deaths will bring him
>> to difficulty one. A win always pulls you one level up and resets the
>> death counter. To maintain some steadiness, i think that above level
>> 3 the number of needed deaths to drop a level should increase -- 10
>> for level 4, 15 for level 6 etc -- this way, the pro's will be
>> constantly fighting between level 7-8 (or like that) having the game
>> challenge them, while the newbies will be able to achieve a vitory
>> eventualy (on level one).
>
>> regards,
>> Kornel Kisielewicz
>
> I like this. What specifically would you change difficulty wise
> though?

Amount of monsters generated, their type, amount of ammo and goodies
generated.

> Another thought, you might want to wait a bit, until you
> finish implementing new weapons, tweaked (weakened?) traits, new
> monsters, monster swarms, new levels, changed level progression...
> all of that could have a serious impact on difficulty.

Maybe...

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...

> Well, I was pondering with the fact that some people consider DoomRL too
> easy and some say it's ok, and with the rquest of difficulty levels. I came
> up with a crazy idea (all my ideas that appear four in the morning are
> crazy) that could be implemented as a seperate play mode (additionaly to a
> normal mode in DoomRL), that might be implemented. The system is very simple
> indeed.
>
> The system tracks the players deaths and wins. Let's say the standard
> difficulty in a scale of 1-9 is 3. If now the player dies 5 times, the
> difficulty will fall to two. Another five deaths will bring him to
> difficulty one. A win always pulls you one level up and resets the death
> counter. To maintain some steadiness, i think that above level 3 the number
> of needed deaths to drop a level should increase -- 10 for level 4, 15 for
> level 6 etc -- this way, the pro's will be constantly fighting between level
> 7-8 (or like that) having the game challenge them, while the newbies will be
> able to achieve a vitory eventualy (on level one).
>
> The game would keep the player updated on his level, and number of deaths
> needed to drop. "Well, I'll give you 3 more chances". "Hmm, that was to
> easy, try to beat me on level 7!". Also the mortem.txt would reflect the
> difficulty level of the player. And beaating the game at level 9 would
> introduce an alternative ending :-D
>
> I'm open to discussion, what do you think about that?

The main problem for you is to make the game replayable enough to actually
lure people play it multiple times. I don't believe that the game needs 9
levels of difficulty, I'm more for standard doom difficulty settings. Four
levels should pose you enough balancing problems than you wish.

--
Loonie
---------------------------------------
Respondit Pilatus quod scripsi scripsi.
http://www.crawl.webpark.pl
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Loonie wrote:
> Kornel Kisielewicz .-- .-. --- - . ---...
>
> > Well, I was pondering with the fact that some people consider
DoomRL too
> > easy and some say it's ok, and with the rquest of difficulty
levels. I came
> > up with a crazy idea (all my ideas that appear four in the morning
are
> > crazy) that could be implemented as a seperate play mode
(additionaly to a
> > normal mode in DoomRL), that might be implemented. The system is
very simple
> > indeed.
> >
> > The system tracks the players deaths and wins. Let's say the
standard
> > difficulty in a scale of 1-9 is 3. If now the player dies 5 times,
the
> > difficulty will fall to two. Another five deaths will bring him to
> > difficulty one. A win always pulls you one level up and resets the
death
> > counter. To maintain some steadiness, i think that above level 3
the number
> > of needed deaths to drop a level should increase -- 10 for level 4,
15 for
> > level 6 etc -- this way, the pro's will be constantly fighting
between level
> > 7-8 (or like that) having the game challenge them, while the
newbies will be
> > able to achieve a vitory eventualy (on level one).
> >
> > The game would keep the player updated on his level, and number of
deaths
> > needed to drop. "Well, I'll give you 3 more chances". "Hmm, that
was to
> > easy, try to beat me on level 7!". Also the mortem.txt would
reflect the
> > difficulty level of the player. And beaating the game at level 9
would
> > introduce an alternative ending :-D
> >
> > I'm open to discussion, what do you think about that?
>
> The main problem for you is to make the game replayable enough to
actually
> lure people play it multiple times. I don't believe that the game
needs 9
> levels of difficulty, I'm more for standard doom difficulty settings.
Four
> levels should pose you enough balancing problems than you wish.

Personally, I think the best way to make the game more difficult is to
play it in a more gung-ho and bloodthirsty way. And use the chainsaw
and axe more. And not worry about all that pesky inventory
management...
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Dnia Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:14:30 +0100, Kornel Kisielewicz napisal(a):
> The system tracks the players deaths and wins. Let's say the standard
> difficulty in a scale of 1-9 is 3. If now the player dies 5 times, the
> difficulty will fall to two. Another five deaths will bring him to
> difficulty one. A win always pulls you one level up and resets the death
> counter. To maintain some steadiness, i think that above level 3 the number
> of needed deaths to drop a level should increase -- 10 for level 4, 15 for
> level 6 etc -- this way, the pro's will be constantly fighting between level
> 7-8 (or like that) having the game challenge them, while the newbies will be
> able to achieve a vitory eventualy (on level one).
>
> I'm open to discussion, what do you think about that?

You'd just make it hard to select your desired difficulty level.
(ok, five more deaths and I'm ready to play...)

--
Radomir @**@_ Bee! .**._ .**._ .**._ .**._ zZ
`The Sheep' ('') 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (..) 3 (--) 3
Dopieralski .vvVvVVVVVvVVVvVVVvVvVVvVvvVvVVVVVVvvVVvvVvvvvVVvVVvv.v.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

R. Dan Henry wrote:
> On Sun, 30 Jan 2005 20:14:30 +0100, "Kornel Kisielewicz"
> <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl> wrote:
>
>> I'm open to discussion, what do you think about that?
>
> Seems overly complicated to me and introduces possible problems. What
> if more than one player is using the same copy of DoomRL? What if I
> take a six month break and come back for a quick game and don't really
> want to play at level 8 because I'm rusty? Why not implement some
> difficulty levels and trust players to figure out what level they
> should play at? Especially since desired degree of challenge differs
> between players and even the same player at different times. (E.g., if
> I'm playing DoomRL because I'm home sick and bored and don't want to
> kill my Crawl character by playing when sick, I probably don't want to
> play at highest difficulty if I normally do.)

Agreed. Maybe traditional Doom difficulty levels would be better (+Unlocking
difficulties higher then "Bring'em on" ;-)

regards,
Kornel Kisielewicz
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

Kornel Kisielewicz wrote:

> Well, I was pondering with the fact that some people consider DoomRL too
> easy and some say it's ok, and with the rquest of difficulty levels. I

<snip scaling difficulty level>

> I'm open to discussion, what do you think about that?

I'll pass. I wouldn't want to feel like I won only because the game took
pity on me. If it has difficulty levels, let me choose.

--
Juho Julkunen
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.development,rec.games.roguelike.misc (More info?)

quoting Kornel Kisielewicz <kisielewicz@gazeta.pl>:
[difficulty]
>Amount of monsters generated, their type, amount of ammo and goodies
>generated.

Tricky; you want the effect of more beasties to be an increase in general
difficulty, not in "surprise, you're dead, six barons in a room" moments.

The rate of gaining traits could be increased or decreased; two free
traits at level one versus one versus none at all.

Doom only had four difficulty levels when first released. Do you really
need nine?
--
David Damerell <damerell@chiark.greenend.org.uk> Distortion Field!
Today is Oneiros, February.
 
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