News Door slammed on last remaining easy Windows 11 local account setup workaround

[salgado18]

I think this exerpt from The Art Of War sums up nicely Microsoft's strategy:

When you surround an army, leave an outlet free.

This does not mean that the enemy is to be allowed to escape. The object, as Tu Mu puts it, is "to make him believe that there is a road to safety, and thus prevent his fighting with the courage of despair."

There is a hidden way of creating an offline account for this reason. If they remove it, then we, tech people, will switch to Linux, and start evangelizing other people into doing the same. And there is a Linux alternative to almost every software, and thanks to Wine and VirtualBox, the rest is covered too. But while these users can use the exception, they will not feel locked out and will keep using Windows.

Thanks to Proton, I'm finally switching to Linux in my main computer. While there is a lot of manual setup to everything and the Linux scene is very fragmented, it's all under my control, and not under some big corp's control. I won't care about loopholes in an OSAAS just to use my computer safe from big corps. And maybe, as we say "let's send Microsoft a message by not using Windows", we should send a message to Linux developers, saying "we are using it, please improve things".

 

[ezst036]

We have reckless anarchists who love controlling the masses, and in turn an endless supply of reckless masses who support them. The perfect feedback loop that supports the growth of authority and dogmatism. MS will win, 100% guaranteed. For every one person complaining about how wrong this all is and what an abomination windows has become, there must be fifty thousand people blindly buying machines with win11. The truly tragic part of this whole story and which is a testimate to how well capatalism works, is after all these years we haven't gotten a proper open source alternative. Sorry, but linux sucks, its far to limited and archaic, it cant do like half of the basic stuff I require in a destop.

So far for me, every toxic useless thing put into windows has been removed or gotten around by someone. But if it gets to the point you need an account, or i cant get rid of defender, nope, not going to tolerate that. A line must be drawn because i demand a free offgrid reliable private system with no strings attached. Since the days of vista i have never been a victim of the malicious pseudoscience and scare tactics that is defender, updates, security, accounts, etc. All really designed to strengthen corporations and treat people like sheep.
With win10/11, windows is so so so close to being permanently crossed off my list, windows is so amazingly buggy and broken, at least if your a power user like me with heavy mutitasking. Those awful people have deliberately not fixed so many bugs and issues in windows, so for me its pretty much not that big of a deal to move away from windows. It cant be saved.
And the rest of the world is getting worse, I will not under any circumstances pay for subscription based software, never. They will not get a single cent, ever. You either make a full product that after being paid for in full is free and yours for life, or I wont touch it ever.
The only alternative/treatment to the windows problem is to not give these kinds of people the chance to undermine ones life in the first place. So getting off gaming as an example is a good start. No gaming means no being shafted by planned obsolescence and capitalism.

While "blame capatalism!"(sic), yet you set out to cling to corporate Google/Microsoft/Apple products.

Got it.

 

[USAFRet]

So far, and I could be wrong, but this online account requirement only exists for initial setup of the system.

It does NOT, repeat NOT, require an MS account for daily use.
In fact, it cannot.

Why not?

Kids.

Setting up a system for my grandkids will require a local account to eventually be created and used.
The 8 year old does not have a MS account. Nor even his own email address.

So unless thy want to kill off the entire kid market, Local accounts will still be able to be created and used.

Now, for some of you, this is still a bridge too far.
But thats the way I see it.

 

[35below0]

If they remove it, then we, tech people, will switch to Linux, and start evangelizing other people into doing the same.

Means less than a pimple on a gnat's arse.

You can't evangelize people into not spilling their complete personal history to the first stranger they see, much less try to keep their computers free of malware or even explain why they should.
Plus, anyone with a phone just accepts the damn update when it rolls out and knows all too well it's another step towards their phone becoming too slow.
At which point they spend a $1000 on a new one and complain how underpaid they are.

The battle isn't lost, it's fictional. It doesn't exist. People don't care about these details, they care about how to kill their lunch break or if wrestling is on. Something more important than stupid computer stuff.


You can fuss about the OS or just use a computer. For me, fussing and obsessing was fun for many many years. But i burned out on fighting what didn't need fighting. I don't hate Win 11. (i do think 10 is poo. And 8)
I can have it do what it thinks it needs to do, and i get on with my work, my movies, games, books, etc. etc.

The ugly truth is that if you're fleeing to Linux, you have already given up the fight, so don't even think about evangelicizing others.
Key work being "fleeing". Some folks chose it.

 

[USAFRet]

OK, this is veering far too much into political territory.
Let's rein it in, OK?

 

[CmdrShepard]

OK, this is veering far too much into political territory.
Let's rein it in, OK?

Sorry, I get triggered when someone mentions words "capitalism" and anything resembling "good" in the same paragraph. It takes tremendous amount of wilful ignorance to "forget" how we got here.

 

[Viking2121]

Well, I'll use rufus or keep my old version and just update it, I don't care about it for myself, I got a MS account anyway, but setting a computer up for someone, I'd rather get into windows make sure things are installed and working without my account, that seem like a security issue if you think about it.

 

[dalauder]

No.

The vast majority of people don't really care what OS. They use whatever the system came with.
They do not upgrade as much as us geeks like to think.

There is no performance diff between 10 and 11. Next year this time, maybe people will start to click the "Upgrade to 11" button.

Or just buy a new PC.

I'm only referring to data published on Tom's Hardware: https://www.tomshardware.com/softwa...s-as-users-seemingly-shift-back-to-windows-10
But I did misquote it. Windows 10 was gaining market share on Windows 11. Windows 11 never was the market share leader though.

Is it new PCs shipping with Windows 10 then?

 

[dalauder]

So far, and I could be wrong, but this online account requirement only exists for initial setup of the system.

It does NOT, repeat NOT, require an MS account for daily use.
In fact, it cannot.

Why not?

Kids.

Setting up a system for my grandkids will require a local account to eventually be created and used.
The 8 year old does not have a MS account. Nor even his own email address.

So unless thy want to kill off the entire kid market, Local accounts will still be able to be created and used.

Now, for some of you, this is still a bridge too far.
But thats the way I see it.

I think Microsoft is fine with giving away the kid market. Kids use iPads--at least for most retail purchases that are FOR kids.

You're largely right though--my kids use desktops.

 

[Sangheili112]

I honestly dont understand why they are pushing for these online accounts so hard.

Something is amiss.

data collection i mean what else is else for there is no other reason

 

[CmdrShepard]

data collection i mean what else is else for there is no other reason

It's not just data collection.

It's trying to remove what little anonymity we have left.

Being signed in at all times doesn't just tell them who does what using data collection -- it also means they know who you are.

 

[punkncat]

It's not just data collection.

It's trying to remove what little anonymity we have left.

Being signed in at all times doesn't just tell them who does what using data collection -- it also means they know who you are.

I hear a lot of people say this or something really similar while at the same time carrying a modern cell phone everywhere they go.

 

[slightnitpick]

Why do either of these choices need to exist when I already pay for my Windows license/key?

https://archive.seattletimes.com/archive/?date=19950607&slug=2125167

Windows 95, Microsoft's new operating system, will be sold at a "suggested retail price" of $209.95 and an upgrade price of $109.95 when it hits store shelves in late August.

https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/get-windows-10-free-or-cheap,5717.html

How to Get Windows 11 for Free (or Under $20)​

The Redmond software giant charges consumers a whopping $139 for a Windows 11 Home license and or $199 for Windows 11 Pro.

Now resellers will take less of a cut of that suggested retail price, but still inflation has slightly more than doubled in the last 29 years. Microsoft has to find some way of getting more value from the customer in order to keep that revenue high.

 

[slightnitpick]

Yet you use an "online account" for all sorts of things.
Like making your post.

Got it.

We typically have both the OS and browser intermediating between our data and online accounts for third parties. This is not the case when the OS itself is registered to an online account.

 

[kerberos_20]

We typically have both the OS and browser intermediating between our data and online accounts for third parties. This is not the case when the OS itself is registered to an online account.

its not online account
you can login to windows with email account without internet connection just fine

you do need to be online just when you creating it, but not when using it

 

[35below0]

I hear a lot of people say this or something really similar while at the same time carrying a modern cell phone everywhere they go.

Not only that but it's also untrue. Microsoft has an email address ... That's it.

Any twit or troll can create an email address in seconds. On Gmail. And give Google far more than Microsoft could gleam or anyone interested in identifying you could find.

Have you ever thought about identifying someone solely based on their gmail address?

Of course, you could give Microsoft your phone number and a lot more personal information. But you don't have to. Give them a burner gmail address, the name Harold Fondlebottom and whichever date of birth you want. Non-existent problem.

It's true Microsoft would love to pump as much information out of you, but they're nowhere near as aggressive or deceitful about it as a bunch of other companies. Doesn't make them nice, it does make paranoia about "our computers being taken away from us" blown out of proportion.

I don't want to belittle people who are trying to keep predatory corporations at bay.
If you want to shut them off, protect your personal information, disable services you don't want the OS to run, and instal a firewall that can cutoff telemetry or similar communication over your connection.

 

[CmdrShepard]

I hear a lot of people say this or something really similar while at the same time carrying a modern cell phone everywhere they go.

And I hear a lot of people comparing the two (phone .vs. desktop PC) even though they have:

- Totally different user interface
- Totally different purpose
- Totally different form factor

Can you install a software license on a phone from a downloaded file? Nowadays you can, but back when smart phones started they didn't have a proper filesystem, much less a user friendly way of dealing with files.

Can you type in a long serial number on a phone? Nowadays you can because we have external Bluetooth keyboards and good touch keyboards but back in the day typing anything on a phone was a huge chore.

Can you easily backup your data from a phone? Nowadays you can create an offline encrypted backup via USB cable, but people want convenience. They want their family and dog photos be backed up as they are being taken in case their phone gets damaged or stolen.

When we are at that, how much bigger chance is to lose or damage your phone which you carry with you everywhere you go compared to your desktop PC which sits in one place all the time?

Hence, a phone has an account which keeps your licenses for software you bought on it, and is used to sync your data to cloud and most people find that tradeoff justified.

Also, if I am not mistaken, you can still setop and use both iPhone and Android without an account and you can easily choose what services you want to use -- you can forego any sync and / or cloud backup and just use the account for purchasing app and media licenses and whatever you configure will be respected and won't be reset on the next OS update / upgrade like Microsoft does with your Windows settings.

On the other hand, when you sign in using MSA into Windows, it will enable sync by default, it will enable BitLocker by default, it will automatically sign you into OneDrive, it will default to saving your files to OneDrive, it will connect your browser profile in Microsoft Edge with your MSA -- all of that before you get a chance to say no.

Moreover, if your MSA gets compromised so does all the stuff you allowed them to collect and if you are unable to reset the password and regain control because your MSA was locked and is under review good luck logging into and getting to use your PC.

Yes, I am aware that you can use the MSA to sign in initially, create a local account, and sign out of MSA but the damage to your privacy is already done by then especially considering default Windows 10/11 privacy settings.

TL;DR -- comparing the phone account and desktop PC account is pointless and people doing it are being disingenious.

 

[35below0]

Also, if I am not mistaken, you can still setop and use both iPhone and Android without an account

Not a chance.

On the other hand, when you sign in using MSA into Windows, it will enable sync by default, it will enable BitLocker by default, it will automatically sign you into OneDrive, it will default to saving your files to OneDrive, it will connect your browser profile in Microsoft Edge with your MSA -- all of that before you get a chance to say no.

Same with every Android i've seen/used. First thing i do is switch off all the spyware and unwanted features. Most people leave it all on.
If the user is ever asked to confirm or refuse these features, it's when they launch some specific app at which point they're told to accept or the feautres cannot be used, so they accept and move on, accept and move on, and eventually get annoyed at all this privacy protecion garbage that gets in the way of using their phone.

But you are correct that some of these will be enabled by default, although OneDrive does not work automatically without you setting it up, and can be uninstalled, you never need to use Edge except to download a different browser.
BitLocker i'm not 100% certain about but it hasn't been enabled for me, and i'm not sure it can be silently enabled.
Sync is trivial to switch off and on a fresh install there isn't anything to sync. Plus for people who use this feature, it should be enabled by default.

Moreover, if your MSA gets compromised so does all the stuff you allowed them to collect

Same as every other online account.

and if you are unable to reset the password and regain control because your MSA was locked and is under review good luck logging into and getting to use your PC.

Huh?

You can always use your PC. Logging into your MSA is optional and i'll be damned if i did it more than once or twice on my Win 11 computers. One time was strictly curiosity.

There is nothing in the MSA that i care about or am uneasy about Microsoft collecting, and absolutely nothing that would prevent the OS from working.
Win 11 does not login upon boot. Unless you make it do so some way, but i don't use their ecosystem services/software so for me at least signing in is a manual procedure and one i never do. Because why would i?

Yes, I am aware that you can use the MSA to sign in initially, create a local account, and sign out of MSA but the damage to your privacy is already done by then especially considering default Windows 10/11 privacy settings.

Misinformation.

Without a local account, you only ever create a (or sign in with an existing) online MS account once during installation of Windows. You do not stay or even get signed in. Once setup is finished you still have to sign in manually, probably using a PIN or Hello or your phone number, whichever option you choose.

You can use Windows after setup without ever signing in to your MSA.
This is unlike a phone for example where you will have to sign into Google in order to use the Play Store or basically anything.

The only part of your statement that is true, is that Microsoft will enable by default a bunch of data gathering services so you have to switch them off only after they've had a go at gathering data on you.
You can also delete this data, though some of the options are intentionally buried deep. Again, same as phones.

 

[CmdrShepard]

Not a chance.

According to this post it is possible on iOS. Even if the official way of "Setup later in Settings" was removed, there's this software which supposedly can do that for Apple devices. There's also this software for Android.

You can always use your PC. Logging into your MSA is optional and i'll be damned if i did it more than once or twice on my Win 11 computers. One time was strictly curiosity.

The point is that by requiring it Microsoft is giving the impression that you have to continue using it. While it is true that you don't have to, you'd need to know how to create a local account and switch to it and like 95% of the people won't do it.

This is unlike a phone for example where you will have to sign into Google in order to use the Play Store or basically anything.

And by default Microsoft will nag you to sign into Windows Store to be able to download apps from there. If you don't know enough about Windows and where to find and download popular apps outside of Store you will be stuck with MSA and Windows Store.

The only part of your statement that is true, is that Microsoft will enable by default a bunch of data gathering services so you have to switch them off only after they've had a go at gathering data on you.

Yes, that's exactly the problem -- opt-out .vs. opt-in.

You can also delete this data, though some of the options are intentionally buried deep. Again, same as phones.

You can press a button called "Delete my data" but whether it will actually do that has to be proven yet.

 

[35below0]

According to this post it is possible on iOS. Even if the official way of "Setup later in Settings" was removed, there's this software which supposedly can do that for Apple devices. There's also this software for Android.

Nobody knows or uses that. You buy a Samsung and you get to make a Google account. That's how it goes. The best you can do is skip making a Samsung account, but it will not even let you update apps manually without one.

The point is that by requiring it Microsoft is giving the impression that you have to continue using it. While it is true that you don't have to, you'd need to know how to create a local account and switch to it and like 95% of the people won't do it.

No, the point is that you create a MSA account once, never sign into it and never care about it afterwards whether you're clueless or experienced. If Microsoft signs you into OneDrive or pushes Office onyou, that's a separate issue.

The account is your problem. You have to create it during Windows installation and you're encourage by Microsoft to continue using it, but you never have to sign into it ever.
Microsoft also encourages you to use Edge, and pushes their ecosystem software on you, as well as Copilot or whatever else.
For people who don't care or like this, there is no problem. For people like you and me, we have to get rid of things we don't like, but you keep insisting that it's not possible to avoid using the MSA and i can tell you that you never need sign into it once.
It's another stupid Microsoft feature, unwanted by guys like you and me. So we go around it and avoid it.

you'd need to know how to create a local account and switch to it and like 95% of the people won't do it.
That is a lie.

You don't have to create local accounts
You don't need to sign in into the MSA in order to keep using your PC.
Do you not know this? The MSA is like a burner gmail account you make and never actually use. Or a Steam account. It has no bearing on your ability to use your PC or anything else. It's just your Microsoft account for your Office, OneDrive, whatever else needs.

And by default Microsoft will nag you to sign into Windows Store to be able to download apps from there. If you don't know enough about Windows and where to find and download popular apps outside of Store you will be stuck with MSA and Windows Store.

Do you even use Windows?

Because you're either trolling or going by misinformation.

You may use Store to install stuff. You also may never touch the thing once in your life.
And if you do touch it, you don't have to sign in.

Yes, that's exactly the problem -- opt-out .vs. opt-in.

That's exactly the problem we're not talking about.

We're talking about Microsoft forcing people to use a Microsoft account to use Windows and to be online, signed in all the time in order to use Windows.

Neither of which are true.

 

[CmdrShepard]

Nobody knows or uses that.

And yet you insist that everyone knows how to skip MSA.

No, the point is that you create a MSA account once, never sign into it and never care about it afterwards whether you're clueless or experienced.

And how do you create such an account and proceed with setup without signing into it at least once?

The account is your problem. You have to create it during Windows installation and you're encourage by Microsoft to continue using it, but you never have to sign into it ever.

Except that one time you need it to proceed with setup, got it.

Here's a screenshot of the relevant setup step from the latest Windows 11 Pro 23H2 May ISO VM I just booted:

https://imgur.com/a/aulJ9bz

View: https://imgur.com/a/aulJ9bz


I know I can skip this now -- Shift+F10 here still works to open command prompt, and entering Audit mode will also still work even after the 24H2 update being discussed here because they can't remove that without pissing off enterprise admins, but what is regular user (like the other 95% of them) who doesn't know about those things supposed to do except to cave in, connect it, and sign up?

Microsoft also encourages you to use Edge, and pushes their ecosystem software on you, as well as Copilot or whatever else.

So basically they are using all possible dark patterns in user interface design along with other unethical behavior to force the tracking on you. I don't think the word "encourage" means what you think it means.

For people who don't care or like this, there is no problem

Not knowing you have a problem and not having a problem are two different things -- closing your eyes in front of an enraged tiger doesn't make said tiger unable to see you too.

Do you even use Windows?

Use? I've been creating customized ISO images since Windows 7 at least and not using nLite mind you, but manually using DISM and other tools.

Because you're either trolling or going by misinformation.

Or you are white-knighting for Microsoft, how about that?

We're talking about Microsoft forcing people to use a Microsoft account to use Windows and to be online, signed in all the time in order to use Windows.

Neither of which are true.

This article is about part where Microsoft will be forcing the use of account starting with 24H2 update.

Also, your information about what is going on during setup seems to be out of date. Perhaps you are relying on your own memory of what you had or not had to do couple of years ago while installing but that's not relevant to what others have to do today and especially not what they will have to do after 24H2 update hits.

 

[35below0]

And how do you create such an account and proceed with setup without signing into it at least once?

You type in a code sent to your email.

Except that one time you need it to proceed with setup, got it.

You're not worth arguing with.

Here's a screenshot of the relevant setup step from the latest Windows 11 Pro 23H2 May ISO VM I just booted:

Not remotely relevant. It wants a connection to install updates. Windows 10 and 11 are notories for having lots of updates so this is nothing out of the ordinary.

World of difference between using an internet connection and being signed against your will into an account you do not want.

It's been ages since you could boot windows without a user account and password. You somehow refuse to understand that a MS account you're forced to create is not the same thing as being forced to sign into your user account for Windows.

Why else would Microsoft always ask me to sign into their service every time when a relevant app is started, if i was signed in against my will every time, all the time?

So basically they are using all possible dark patterns in user interface design along with other unethical behavior to force the tracking on you. I don't think the word "encourage" means what you think it means.

dark patterns and unethical what? You mean like lying? Or telling something other than the truth? In order to get their way?

Or you are white-knighting for Microsoft, how about that?

Either you're not trolling, or i'm white knighting?

This article is about part where Microsoft will be forcing the use of account starting with 24H2 update.

The article is one thing, YOUR posts are what you need to defend right now. Or delete.

Also, your information about what is going on during setup seems to be out of date. Perhaps you are relying on your own memory of what you had or not had to do couple of years ago while installing but that's not relevant to what others have to do today and especially not what they will have to do after 24H2 update hits.

I have installed three Windows 11 systems this year, and one Windows 10, although that Win 10 installation was because the 11 install broke so i had to do Win 10 - upgrade to Win 11. So basically three systems.

Three systems running Windows 11, only two of which have ever signed into MSA at least once, and none of which is ever signed in automatically or ever.


I have a lot more trouble keeping my Samsung phone honest than i do Microsoft Windows. And there's nothing i can do to stop updates rolling in and killing performance until the phone becomes too annoying to use. Not something that will happen with Windows, at least for another decade.

In that context, Microsoft is not as evil but sure call me a white knight. If i have to defend Microsoft against stupid and baseless accusations i will. As most people know, there is PLENTY to get mad about when it comes to Windows and Microsoft.

Edit - Here's pictures if you can't believe words:

https://imgur.com/BP9ezPe

View: https://i.imgur.com/BP9ezPe.png

I am being asked to sync the MS account with Windows. This would not happen if MS did it automatically without asking. But Sync, in this case, is opt-in as you can see.
And if i have to sign in, it follows that i am NOT signed in at the time Windows asked me to. I booted up the OS, did "stuff", and never was signed in to the MS account.

https://imgur.com/x5UNUZG

View: https://i.imgur.com/x5UNUZG.png

This shows backup, apps, preferences and other stuff not being synced, but more importantly it shows i have to manually identify in order to use those things, and they are optional to begin with.

If you want to give feedback to Microsoft, you have to sign in. Use customer support? Sign in. OneDrive? Sign in. Office? Well obviously but that's a subscription service you have to both pay for and opt-into before it can ask you to sign in.
Use Microsoft Store? It asks you to sign-in but you can ignore it. You are never compelled to use the Store anyway but it's there if you want to.


Maybe some day i will need a retina scan before i can even open notepad or instal a security update, but we are not there yet. And you are acting as if we are. It's not true.


Btw, there are uses for the MS account. Linking your license is a good way to avoid activation trouble. Some of it anyway. It can also help people migrate their important stuff across the MS ecosystem, but they would be happy to do that.
This argument is about people who do NOT want the extra MS BS and want to avoid it or turn it off.
And they can.

Well, some of it anyway.

 

[CmdrShepard]

You're not worth arguing with.

Of course not when you are being disingenious in your claims how everything is optional.

Not remotely relevant. It wants a connection to install updates. Windows 10 and 11 are notories for having lots of updates so this is nothing out of the ordinary.

After installing those updates it still wants a connection to sign you into an existing Microsoft account and to force you to create one if you don't already have it.

Check the wording here, local account isn't even mentioned anymore:

https://imgur.com/a/eeEO3qK

View: https://imgur.com/a/eeEO3qK


Then what other options you see here except Sign In?

https://imgur.com/a/wjtP7fd

View: https://imgur.com/a/wjtP7fd


Finally, check out the actual sign-in dialog:

https://imgur.com/a/FhiOcvB

View: https://imgur.com/a/FhiOcvB


Read the small print under the Sign In Options link.

Then there's a dark pattern here:

https://imgur.com/a/cXtuWXo

View: https://imgur.com/a/cXtuWXo


Note how Skip for Now is less prominent than Next and how clicking Next means you agree to the Privacy Statement and Microsoft Services Agreement.

So I pretended to be your typical non-tech-savvy user and clicked Next and here's what they asked me.

https://imgur.com/a/7XIYoT6

View: https://imgur.com/a/7XIYoT6


Same dark pattern here to link the phone:

https://imgur.com/a/OYvEwFe

View: https://imgur.com/a/OYvEwFe


Then another one for browser history:

https://imgur.com/a/ObG4Tmg

View: https://imgur.com/a/ObG4Tmg


Then another one to sell me M365:

https://imgur.com/a/NzGnCkc

View: https://imgur.com/a/NzGnCkc


And another one to upsell storage and email:

https://imgur.com/a/umcM4NR

View: https://imgur.com/a/umcM4NR


Then another attempt to link my phone identifier with the account I just created through phone app analytics by luring me to install an app:

https://imgur.com/a/bUP7qJj

View: https://imgur.com/a/bUP7qJj


And finally trying to sell me game pass:

https://imgur.com/a/evlzn12

View: https://imgur.com/a/evlzn12


And while it is true it didn't sign me in to OneDrive automatically (I stand corrected on that one), first link I clicked in Settings opened Microsoft Edge revealing another dark pattern:

https://imgur.com/a/WF9utC6

View: https://imgur.com/a/WF9utC6


Note how it's a full screen window with no close button which doesn't react to Alt+F4, Ctrl+W, or Ctrl+F4 and the only option I have is to continue with onboarding, not to mention how it says my data is syncing despite me declining it when it asked me about Microsoft Edge sync earlier during setup.

By the way, the link I clicked was for account management from Settings app -- lo and behold:

https://imgur.com/a/dkgXFF0

View: https://imgur.com/a/dkgXFF0


So much for not being signed in by default.

At no point I was asked to sign in into the website, it just happened.

Same with Microsoft Edge account and sync:

https://imgur.com/a/QGXvWJq

View: https://imgur.com/a/QGXvWJq


You don't get to refuse this.

Also, if you click on Personal Vault and allow OneDrive to run it will sign you in without asking for credentials.

 

[35below0]

Finally, check out the actual sign-in dialog:

https://imgur.com/a/FhiOcvB

View: https://imgur.com/a/FhiOcvB

I'm going to reply on this subject one last time.

In the picture you yourself posted it says "Lets add your Microsoft account".

Yes there are words "Sign in", and that is for an existing MS account in case you have already got one.
Below that is the "create account" link that you have to click in order to create a new MS account.

Creating this account is unavoidable. Creating a new account or using an existing one is a part of Windows 11 installation. There may be workarounds but they're not part of this. This is about installing Windows and using Windows with a MS account, and the sticky part is how the account is used and when exactly the user is signed into it.

- you have to create an MS account
- you don't have to sign in except to use the features of a MS account
- you don't have to be signed in to your MS account in order to use Windows
- you can't use Windows without agreeing to their privacy statement and service agreement
- "skip for now" was never part of my argument, only that Windows does not require a user to be signed in to their MS account in order to *use Windows

*truth is, using some services or parts of Windows will make signing in inevitable BUT it is opt-in. Even though MS tries to trick people into opting in and giving consent, the option to opt-out is still there.
And anybody paying attention to Windows setup can refuse to opt-in to begin with.


Show me, if you can, and if you want, some proof that at any point during MS installation, you are actually signed into your MS account if you chose skip, decline or not now to any of their options that require signing in, and if you declined to automatically sign into your MS account.

For example, contrary to your screenshot, i was never adressed by name. Only my chosen email adress was shown in places where a username normally would be. Also, it wasn't a microsoft email address fwiw.

The account is created and verified and that is the end of it. Unless you choose to sign in or allow Windows to sign you in automatically, you won't be signed in. You have to do it manually.
I have never argued that Microsoft will not try their best to make people do this. You were never wrong about that, but you continue to not understand or not accept that despite MS BS and their tricks, using the required MS account is opt-in.

Despite being so sure of yourself you fail to realize that at no point will you actually be signed in IF you don't wish to be signed in!

Yes MS will lure you in but you have to willingly do this. For people who want it, it's a non-issue. For people who don't want this, they have to jump through a few hoops in order to decline the BS they don't want.
Which leaves people who don't know what they want and aren't sure whether they need to accept offers in order to use Windows, or if it's optional, or they just don't want the aggro so they hit "next" on everything.

You can hinge your argument on them if you want, but that's not what you were saying before. You were adamant that signing into a user's own MS account is unavoidable during installation (it is) and every time the OS boots (again, it's avoidable).

Your confusion is owed to Microsoft's own wording. The button "Sign in" in your "Unlock your Microsoft experience" screenshot, does not sign you in. It leads to a Sign in screen where an existing account can be used or a new one created, BUT after creating a new account you would still actually have to sign in to Microsoft. I know this because it asks for signing in.
If you decline all the MS services that require signing in, there will be no prompt to do so. Not until you start some application or service (with the exception of MS Store but i think we can leave that aside)
And again, you are 100% correct that Microsoft will try their best to get you to sign in and sign up to as much as they can, but a) you have to choose to do so, and b) you will have to sign in manually unless you set Windows to automate it. Which you wont.

A user must sign in to their MS account manually unless they choose to automate the process, and a user must identify themselves in order to use some Microsoft services, including customer support, feedback, syncing, etc. But signing in and identifying does not extend to using the computer or the OS except the parts previously mentioned.

Play games, copy files, write emails, surf, binge and argue with strangers, without the MS account being any part of it.
If you want, use it to link the license to a new PC, and then leave it be. Assuming linking the license isn't too much. If it is, it's optional.

That is what this argument was about.

 

[kerberos_20]

edge is another story, but atleast edge supports dolby/dts codec while other browsers not