- Aug 23, 2006
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Down with XP, long live DX10 and up!
- Thread starter JAYDEEJOHN
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hell_storm2004
Splendid
- Nov 23, 2009
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- Aug 23, 2006
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XPs losing more than 2% of its marketshare a month now, has less than half the market, and steam does have over 70% of gaming market, so the numbers are pretty solid.
Maybe now we can just move on, and leave XP and its hold ups behind us
Maybe now we can just move on, and leave XP and its hold ups behind us
hell_storm2004
Splendid
- Nov 23, 2009
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Its quite obvious XP will loose out now. Three DX versions have passed now, 10, 10.1 and 11. How long can DX9c hold on? But Microsoft extended the support for XP till 2014 since Vista was such a flop show! XP was supposed to retire in May 2008, i think!
gamerk316
Glorious
- Jul 8, 2008
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So...a newer OS finally has a higher share then XP? Took long enough; BTW, I assume that the Windows 6.x line is adding Vista + 7 together, right? (As theres no way Vista by itself has a larger share then XP)
And I do point out, just because XP has ~48% of the market doesn't mean it will be ignored; games code to the lowest common denominator (Hence why every game still uses DX9.0c/SM3 (6800 Ultra being the lowest "supported" card)).
So yeah, no major news here.
And on an aside: You can get all DX10 level features on XP, provided you use OpenGL...(The DX11 demo is being re-released with OpenGL support in a week or two 😀)
And I do point out, just because XP has ~48% of the market doesn't mean it will be ignored; games code to the lowest common denominator (Hence why every game still uses DX9.0c/SM3 (6800 Ultra being the lowest "supported" card)).
So yeah, no major news here.
And on an aside: You can get all DX10 level features on XP, provided you use OpenGL...(The DX11 demo is being re-released with OpenGL support in a week or two 😀)
- Aug 23, 2006
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Aside from the fact that even my "agressive" guess of this happening has happened, and its rate is falling even faster than I thought.
Its mind share will fail within 6-7 months at this rate
@ gamer, need we look up your predictions here? Took long enough? 2011 comes to mind.
Its mind share will fail within 6-7 months at this rate
@ gamer, need we look up your predictions here? Took long enough? 2011 comes to mind.
gamerk316
Glorious
- Jul 8, 2008
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^^ Still above 20%, isn't it? And again, combining Vista + 7 vs. XP?
Also: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
Claims XP still has 62.2% usage (as of November), which is a far more realistic figure. Remember, people who use Steam tend to be more game oriented, and more likely to gravitate toward new features (DX10+ in this case) then the general public.
Basically, I'm calling the graph above simply a snapshot of what OS gamers favor, and not having anything to do with actual usage overall.
Also: http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_os.asp
Claims XP still has 62.2% usage (as of November), which is a far more realistic figure. Remember, people who use Steam tend to be more game oriented, and more likely to gravitate toward new features (DX10+ in this case) then the general public.
Basically, I'm calling the graph above simply a snapshot of what OS gamers favor, and not having anything to do with actual usage overall.
- Aug 23, 2006
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Were in the gfx section, talking about games, this isnt practice here, but about games (sorry for the Iverson ripoff heheh)
Steam has the single largest single usage of any group out there period, and as the thread states, its about DX10, not DX9.
If XP is currently at 48%, and is losing its overall impact in the worlds largest game market by 2+% per month, by June, it could very well be 33% and falling, so its only a matter of time before we see non DX9 games, as Im sure, most games starting now and for awhile now, are not DX9, and will be DX10+ exclusive.
Before the end of 2010, not 2011 or 2012, which you have said in the past, XP will have lost its relevance in PC gaming.
This is nothing but good news. We need to move on, and all the negatives by nVidia and others about DX10.1 and onwards needs to stop, as DX9 is not where the moolahs at.
So, we can put this one to rest, as XP just doesnt count anymore for PC gaming.
You cant include potential users on an old OS, theyre irrelevent, and its only the new OS systems that count. You cant set your business model for XP seeing these numbers and these changes, as my numbers carry weight within the gaming community, not overall usage.
There simply are no more XP numbers going up, only less and less, even for non gaming usage, which doesnt apply to devs and ATI,nVidia or Intel.
Having Intel entering the fray here also gives this a boost as well.
RIP XP
Steam has the single largest single usage of any group out there period, and as the thread states, its about DX10, not DX9.
If XP is currently at 48%, and is losing its overall impact in the worlds largest game market by 2+% per month, by June, it could very well be 33% and falling, so its only a matter of time before we see non DX9 games, as Im sure, most games starting now and for awhile now, are not DX9, and will be DX10+ exclusive.
Before the end of 2010, not 2011 or 2012, which you have said in the past, XP will have lost its relevance in PC gaming.
This is nothing but good news. We need to move on, and all the negatives by nVidia and others about DX10.1 and onwards needs to stop, as DX9 is not where the moolahs at.
So, we can put this one to rest, as XP just doesnt count anymore for PC gaming.
You cant include potential users on an old OS, theyre irrelevent, and its only the new OS systems that count. You cant set your business model for XP seeing these numbers and these changes, as my numbers carry weight within the gaming community, not overall usage.
There simply are no more XP numbers going up, only less and less, even for non gaming usage, which doesnt apply to devs and ATI,nVidia or Intel.
Having Intel entering the fray here also gives this a boost as well.
RIP XP
gamerk316
Glorious
- Jul 8, 2008
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JD, you are clearly going insane now. Lowest common denominator = largest possible profit. I'm not arguing XP is ever going to go up, I'm mearly arguing the numbers you are using is based off on individual group within the PC community (gamers), and to use those statistics to make any sort of conclusion on overall OS usage is flawed beyond any hope of redemption.
I also remind you, Vista/7 will have split usage statistics for a while yet, and a lot of 7 users are going to be Vista converts...
Year Start:
XP: 69.8%
Vista: 16.5%, Windows 7 = .2% = 16.7%
July:
XP: 67.1% (-2.1%)
Vista: 17.7% (+1.2%), Windows 7: 1.9% (+1.7%) = 19.6% (+2.9%)
November:
XP: 62.2% (-4.9%)
Vista: 17.5% (-.2%), Windows 7: 6.7% (+4.8%) = 24.2% (+4.6%)
Its too early to draw a trend, but it looks like XP will drop at around 1.2-1.5% a month from here on out. Assuming all of that loss goes to 7 (a big assumption), then 7 will overtake XP (using the 1.5% a month)...in just over 18 months (or mid 2011). Again, early to draw a trend as 7 hasn't been released for too long to the consumer markets, but thats what the early data indicates.
I also remind you, Vista/7 will have split usage statistics for a while yet, and a lot of 7 users are going to be Vista converts...
Year Start:
XP: 69.8%
Vista: 16.5%, Windows 7 = .2% = 16.7%
July:
XP: 67.1% (-2.1%)
Vista: 17.7% (+1.2%), Windows 7: 1.9% (+1.7%) = 19.6% (+2.9%)
November:
XP: 62.2% (-4.9%)
Vista: 17.5% (-.2%), Windows 7: 6.7% (+4.8%) = 24.2% (+4.6%)
Its too early to draw a trend, but it looks like XP will drop at around 1.2-1.5% a month from here on out. Assuming all of that loss goes to 7 (a big assumption), then 7 will overtake XP (using the 1.5% a month)...in just over 18 months (or mid 2011). Again, early to draw a trend as 7 hasn't been released for too long to the consumer markets, but thats what the early data indicates.
- Aug 23, 2006
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No, this is about DX10 and up. This is about gaming. It has nothing to do with all those millions of netbooks, or lil Suzy emailing or Joe on facebook for main usage.
It has nothing to do with Bob in accounting or Bill checking out the latest pron, its about games, game devs and DX10 on up.
Where do you go for the largest collection for usage?
Steam
Not DX9 or lower, ala W5 and lower, but Vista on up.
The trend is what the Steam tells us, and to ignore it if youre a gamer, a dev or a gfx company is foolish, and that trend tells us its 2+% a month.
So, when were talking about games, devs and usage, this whole thread is about games and their players, what OS they use, what HW they use etc.
Just some facts Im bringing, and how, where and why its applied, not something off target.
I'll ask you this, whats the % of DX10+ gfx cards used? Do you believe its only 52%? Do you honestly think itll be anywheres near that low by mid year 2011?
Before, the DX10 HW was there, but the OS usage wasnt, now its changing, and quickly
It has nothing to do with Bob in accounting or Bill checking out the latest pron, its about games, game devs and DX10 on up.
Where do you go for the largest collection for usage?
Steam
Not DX9 or lower, ala W5 and lower, but Vista on up.
The trend is what the Steam tells us, and to ignore it if youre a gamer, a dev or a gfx company is foolish, and that trend tells us its 2+% a month.
So, when were talking about games, devs and usage, this whole thread is about games and their players, what OS they use, what HW they use etc.
Just some facts Im bringing, and how, where and why its applied, not something off target.
I'll ask you this, whats the % of DX10+ gfx cards used? Do you believe its only 52%? Do you honestly think itll be anywheres near that low by mid year 2011?
Before, the DX10 HW was there, but the OS usage wasnt, now its changing, and quickly
IzzyCraft
Distinguished
- Nov 20, 2008
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I'm done with XP i demoted my XP to my laptop and promoted my desktop to windows 7 just today dam slow free shipping making me wait a week. It's was a good run calling india to get my XP activated after oh hell i don't know how long that has been going on 5 6 years now?
"Yes this is the only computer with this windows XP installed on."
"Yes this is the only computer with this windows XP installed on."
daedalus685
Distinguished
- Nov 11, 2008
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The Microsoft road map slides that were floating around label W7 as an update release, with W8 being a major new release. I'd expect it to be a relatively new entity.
- Aug 23, 2006
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Actually, what were going to see in W8 will make XP quite outdated, as it will use multi threading and "APU"/gpgpu usage much better than what we have today, even with W7.
In the cpu section, in the AMD Intel general discussion sticky,early on, I gave links to W7 and its MT usage, and how its all going to change once we hit 8 cores on up, how itll leave XP in the dust.
These chips are due in 2010 and 2011, plus LRB and the AMD "APU" approach as well.
The windows are closing fast on XP, in many ways
In the cpu section, in the AMD Intel general discussion sticky,early on, I gave links to W7 and its MT usage, and how its all going to change once we hit 8 cores on up, how itll leave XP in the dust.
These chips are due in 2010 and 2011, plus LRB and the AMD "APU" approach as well.
The windows are closing fast on XP, in many ways
- Oct 30, 2004
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Couple of things getting lost.....
Games take 2 years minimum to be developed....then again, we can look at Duke Nukem Forever which might reach a decade if it ever comes out. How long has Blizzard been developing the next Starcraft ?
DX10 was a complete non factor.....nobody ever got upset because their puter didn't have DX10.
Using graphs like this to speculate on trends is iffy. If we take that approach, then it's obvious from the graph here
http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/
that the rise in earth's temperature over the last 200 years is directly related to the decline in pirate population.
Just cause grandma bought little johnny a new PC for XMas w/ windows 7 doesn't mean a) that anyone made a conscious choice to get DX11 and b) that when Mom goes out to buy a game for johnny to play with XMas day, that she is going to be focused on what DX version the game supports.
The average model year for cars on the road simply goes up because old cars die and are replaced with newer ones....it has nothing to do with whether the buyer thinks the 2009 had anything to offer better than the 2005 he warped around a tree last weekend.
If a new DX11 game comes out with great graphics, it's an erroneous assumption to assign the credit to DX11 until you have actually compared the graphics under Dx11 to the same sequence using DX10.
Games take 2 years minimum to be developed....then again, we can look at Duke Nukem Forever which might reach a decade if it ever comes out. How long has Blizzard been developing the next Starcraft ?
DX10 was a complete non factor.....nobody ever got upset because their puter didn't have DX10.
Using graphs like this to speculate on trends is iffy. If we take that approach, then it's obvious from the graph here
http://www.venganza.org/about/open-letter/
that the rise in earth's temperature over the last 200 years is directly related to the decline in pirate population.
Just cause grandma bought little johnny a new PC for XMas w/ windows 7 doesn't mean a) that anyone made a conscious choice to get DX11 and b) that when Mom goes out to buy a game for johnny to play with XMas day, that she is going to be focused on what DX version the game supports.
The average model year for cars on the road simply goes up because old cars die and are replaced with newer ones....it has nothing to do with whether the buyer thinks the 2009 had anything to offer better than the 2005 he warped around a tree last weekend.
If a new DX11 game comes out with great graphics, it's an erroneous assumption to assign the credit to DX11 until you have actually compared the graphics under Dx11 to the same sequence using DX10.
IzzyCraft
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- Nov 20, 2008
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What is windows 8 suppose to be improving upon that couldn't be done via a patch to windows 7? Or is it just some like vague like target date to get an OS out bring Microsoft to do periodical os releases as their business structure.
- Aug 23, 2006
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@ jack, yes we know, and thats what I was trying to say to gamer, but if lil johnny has a steam account and uses it, his number shows up on my graph
@ izzy, itll mainly be the floating point units being more used, or able to be used by W8, as well as better threading in a MT solution.
As devs write their code in a MT friendly way, the OS working with these new Int/FP solutions, cpus with gfx capable on chip, it all works hand in hand, from SW to OS to HW. Where still nowheres near where we want to be, but even W7 using a 8 core will simply trample XP they way it deals with MT right now, and no patch can change this, just like the kernal was changed on Vista for DX10, no patch makes XP actually play a DX10 game, only thru emulation SW, which is too slow to be effective. Same here with the new OS'
@ izzy, itll mainly be the floating point units being more used, or able to be used by W8, as well as better threading in a MT solution.
As devs write their code in a MT friendly way, the OS working with these new Int/FP solutions, cpus with gfx capable on chip, it all works hand in hand, from SW to OS to HW. Where still nowheres near where we want to be, but even W7 using a 8 core will simply trample XP they way it deals with MT right now, and no patch can change this, just like the kernal was changed on Vista for DX10, no patch makes XP actually play a DX10 game, only thru emulation SW, which is too slow to be effective. Same here with the new OS'
jaguarskx
Titan
- Apr 19, 2006
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Win XP'er here. 
Got a HD 5850 in my primary PC.
But I admit I am currently looking at migrating over to Win 7. Still play DX9 games though (from time to time). I believe the only DX10 title I bought was Crysis all other somewhat recent games only supports DX9 (Fallout 3, X3: Terran Conflict, Mass Effect, Dead Space).
Got a HD 5850 in my primary PC.
But I admit I am currently looking at migrating over to Win 7. Still play DX9 games though (from time to time). I believe the only DX10 title I bought was Crysis all other somewhat recent games only supports DX9 (Fallout 3, X3: Terran Conflict, Mass Effect, Dead Space).
pepperman
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- Sep 15, 2009
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Steam does not have over 70% of the gaming market, it has over 70% of the digital market (this figure is estimated by Stardock). This means that Steam provides approx. 70% of those who use digital distribution sites their games (there is still a very large number of gamers who buy their games as physical media, and don't subscribe to any media distribution site).
- Aug 23, 2006
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While those numbers are actually higher if everyone/things included, youre right.
I just dont see buying personal media instead of steam as a difference in OS usage?
"Head man of Impulse distribution platform parent company Stardock, Brad Wardell, says his company's estimate puts Valve in charge of about 70 percent of the PC digital distribution market.
The nearest runner-up is the company's own Impulse, albeit with only 10 percent, whereas all the others make for a 20 percent remainder. This speaks volumes of just how important Steam is, but that's not all."
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/steam-has-70-per-cent-of-pc-pie
pepperman
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I'm saying that basing your assumptions (and the assumptions of gaming software developers) regarding OS usage of gamers off of an estimate that isn't a representation of all gamers is ignorant (I'm not intending to insult you, but that's the most accurate word I can use).
- Aug 23, 2006
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And what Im saying is, saying that XP being used overall isnt even close, and steam gives us an idea as to how the market is shifting, and ignoring such a valuable piece of info would be ignorant
Should this be the primary source? Im sure nvidia and ATI have better sources, but its still a source, and much more applicable than how many XP units are possibly out there, with alot sitting in businesses.
If this isnt a indicator, then if you have links, please share, as this would help solve this apparent mystery?
Should this be the primary source? Im sure nvidia and ATI have better sources, but its still a source, and much more applicable than how many XP units are possibly out there, with alot sitting in businesses.
If this isnt a indicator, then if you have links, please share, as this would help solve this apparent mystery?
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