EA Copies Ubisoft's Restrictive Internet DRM

[borisof007]

This is actually not too far off what Blizzard is doing for Starcraft 2. Think about it, you log in with your battlenet account (requires internet connection to start) and there's no LAN play. I think that this "form" of DRM, a simple authentication check on log in, is perfectly OK in my book. Looks like EA took a look at what Ubisoft did and improved on it. Good job EA, you actually did something right!

 

[gamedev]

So why do none of us rage against Steam? I take it pretty much everyone on here use it? Just because the client provides extra functionality does not hide that you have installed a store front that also provides DRM functionality. I am always amazed how the criticism for Steam has been deflected when it is more intrusive regarding forced installs, ads, and logins then most other setups out there.

Having said that, I support Steam and others and why? Because whether you like it or not, piracy is crushing core games (not Sims etc). DRM is a reaction to massive piracy and the huge drop is sales is due to that more and more people feeling that content should be free and is NOT the cause. The PS3 is a DRM box--same with Xbox. World of Warcraft and such games are mostly immune hence more PC games trying to emulate that setup. That is why publishing companies are more and more supporting consoles than PC--because they may actually make some money on those platforms. It is totally sad and depressing but PC gamers are not buying as many PC games--that is a statistical fact and started long before intrusive DRM setups.

 

[gamedev]

So why do none of us rage against Steam? I take it pretty much everyone on here use it? Just because the client provides extra functionality does not hide that you have installed a store front that also provides DRM functionality. I am always amazed how the criticism for Steam has been deflected when it is more intrusive regarding forced installs, ads, and logins then most other setups out there.

Having said that, I support Steam and others and why? Because whether you like it or not, piracy is crushing core games (not Sims etc). DRM is a reaction to massive piracy and the huge drop is sales is due to that more and more people feeling that content should be free and is NOT the cause. The PS3 is a DRM box--same with Xbox. World of Warcraft and such games are mostly immune hence more PC games trying to emulate that setup. That is why publishing companies are more and more supporting consoles than PC--because they may actually make some money on those platforms. It is totally sad and depressing but PC gamers are not buying as many core PC games, especially those that are not protected by requiring a connection (based on game requirement/design)--that is a statistical fact and started long before intrusive DRM setups.

 

[BoxBabaX]

I would have expected a low-life scumbag company like EA to jump on board this thing quicker! But I guess they eventually met my expectations.

 

[joe gamer]

EA announced this long before Ubisoft, in fact that's probably what gave them the idea that it was acceptable. EA has been pretty good about DRM lately but this was put into play very early in the game development, before they somehow, against all odds managed to get their heads out of their ass's. So this is hopefully just some leftover fuckassery from the older, much stupider EA. this game has been on my Do not buy list ever since. It will be really sad when sales tank and they blame the CEO who seems to be the only source of common sense over there.

 

[korsen]

Um, I don't think they get the fact that the hackers always get to play their games, and the legit buyers dont lol

I think Modern Warfare went right over their heads...

 

[joe gamer]

So why do none of us rage against Steam? I take it pretty much everyone on here use it? Just because the client provides extra functionality does not hide that you have installed a store front that also provides DRM functionality. I am always amazed how the criticism for Steam has been deflected when it is more intrusive regarding forced installs, ads, and logins then most other setups out there.

Having said that, I support Steam and others and why? Because whether you like it or not, piracy is crushing core games (not Sims etc). DRM is a reaction to massive piracy and the huge drop is sales is due to that more and more people feeling that content should be free and is NOT the cause. The PS3 is a DRM box--same with Xbox. World of Warcraft and such games are mostly immune hence more PC games trying to emulate that setup. That is why publishing companies are more and more supporting consoles than PC--because they may actually make some money on those platforms. It is totally sad and depressing but PC gamers are not buying as many core PC games, especially those that are not protected by requiring a connection (based on game requirement/design)--that is a statistical fact and started long before intrusive DRM setups.

Yes steam has DRM built into it, you know what else it has, offline mode. DRM that does not create hardship for legitimate customers is grudgingly acceptable. Publishing companies support consoles because the market is larger, they sell more, it's got very little to do with piracy. Everyone always cries about the piracy? They weren't going to get money from those people anyway. Notice the guys who made GOOD PC games aren't marching up and down the streets complaining. Good games will be purchased, games will be demo'd, PC games can not be resold or returned so they are a much larger investment then console games, so of course people are going to download the game to try it out first. The damn games should be cheaper anyway, digital distribution is damn near free and there are no licensing fees, add that to the fact that I can never recoup any of my initial investment? and publishers wonder why PC gamers are more selective about the games they buy.

Imagine paying full price for a steamy pile like "Section 8" the trailers were good, the visuals were good, I'm a sucker for any kind of techno armor, and then I PLAYED it, worst pile of *** I ever tried to struggle through. Oops there goes my $50, can't return it, can't sell it, just bend over and say goodbye to my money, no thanks. I think piracy provides an essential purpose in the PC gaming arcology, a check against games from half assed devs and greedy publishers. I remember almost buying Iron Man(again, sucker for techno armor) but I demo'd it just to be sure. You know what I found? A GOD DAMN PS2 PORT! Not PS3, or XBOX 360, these sorry actually expected to sell me a ******* PS2 port? I bought ME2 twice just to support PC gaming, and nearly a hundred other games on steam last year, but sometimes you just need a demo

 

[borisof007]

@Joe Gamer DRM that doesn't create hardship should be easily, not grudgingly, acceptable. I assume you have no problems with Steam based on your comments, but what about Battlenet? All future blizzard games will require a battlenet account login, so would you not like that either? Blizzard has never released a bad game (on account of sales and popularity, and my own opinion of course). Battlenet already allows you to digitally record your CD keys on their servers, download games digitally, demos, register for betas, etc. However, Battlenet doesn't have an offline mode, would this still annoy you?

Don't get me wrong, I'm actually on your side here. I don't like DRM as much as the average consumer (it put me off from buying Spore almost immediately, among a few other games). However, maybe because I'm getting so used to how Battlenet's going to be, a simple authentication upon logging into the game doesn't really bother me. I guess I can see how it would annoy people without internet connections or spotty connections, but it's not like AC2 where it requires a constant connection.

 

[schizz69]

This will work, so long as it doesn't require constant internet for continued play. That is what kills the ubisoft equivilent

 

[gamedev]

@Joe Gamer The answer is demos and not buying games that don't have them. You already can protect yourself without resorting to piracy. If you are unsure about other products such as a car--you read up on it and maybe test it but if they won't let you test drive it, you don't steal it, do you? And you probably don't buy it either.

The console market has grown in a large part by eating the PC market share. People in game development that have been around long enough can testify to that even if you don't want to look at the ample historical sales data and trends. Yes, there are a few stalwarts that have a large enough fanbase that they can still command enough sales that piracy or no piracy, they make money. There is a reason more and more PC versions are held until after the console release--piracy. That means lower sales because less marketing and that will mean less dollars invested in PC games hence increase quality and spend on console games which in turn means more console gamers. This is the cycle that has been around for years. The breakouts from this are a few hits, new models like free to play, or budget games, mass market/non-core games and online connected games such as WOW.

And trade-ins . . . wow, that is another entirely different issue which is not too far off in the amount of damage it is doing to game development. 50% of profit for EB is used games. Over half the store space is dedicated to it. Very little of the money people get goes to new product. Here is the math: $50 game they give you $20 for and sell an hour later for $40. That's a lost sale for a new $50 so publisher gets zero and developer gets zero == massive layoffs in the games industry over the last two years. Yes, the $20 goes to a new game or component but the drag that has on the economics for the games business is huge . . . and then you have rentals . . . there is no box office for games so every title is akin to "Direct to Video." ie. one sales channel/stage unlike movies. If you want fewer games choices with a couple of high quality and a ton of low budget, keep up the "I will pirate to protect myself mentality." Oh and, how many of those pirated games that you played to protect yourself did you actually go buy afterward? 100%? 50%? or closer to 0? I love building gaming rigs . . . just wished it would continue to make sense.

 

[doorspawn]

"It's actually much easier than before" ... except when it's impossible, that is. But if it's possible it's really really easy.

 

[berkeljm]

So....here is an update. The way EA designed this is that you can lose connection in the middle of a single mission within the campaign and all progress is lost even if you complete the mission. A connection is not just required between missions but must remain constant to save your progress even within a mission. The stupid part is that it won't reinitialize in the middle of a mission so you are forced to restart the mission even if you complete it. This is absolute CRAP. I love the C&C games but if I would have known it was going to be this bad I would have saved the $50.00… I can only hope that StarCraft II isn’t this bad……but I expect it will be.
EA….for the record, this sucks…..just in case you missed it the 1st 100 times it’s been said in here. And for all of those people complaining this is due to hackers and pirated software….you can go $%^&$%^ it too. I download games to test them as most don’t have betas. I will then buy the game so I can play online and support those that make decent games. I am tired of not being able to try something and pay $50.00 and then not be able to return it because the game is absolute crap.
There’s my soap box……take it or leave it…..but this game is pissing me off.

 

[belardo]

101 times... Thought EA took a hint with SecuROM BS?

3~5 limited installs = dead $50 game. Some of us actually replace or upgrade computers every 1~3 years. Or have issues that requires a a a reinstall! In the past 72hrs, I've had to reinstall Windows several times because of a hardware issue. So by their standards, I would have exhausted my re-installs in 1 year because of it.

Online-DRM... huh? STEAM is okay, it has an off-line mode. But constant connection, eating bandwidth? GEEZ EA, you guys really have donkey-do-do for brains? What happened to spore? Oh yeah, 500,000+ pirated copies in what... the first month of its release? That DRM sure worked.

BTW: I didn't know there were that many PC gamers out there. China?

UT3 and UT2004 and most epic games have a simple CD-key. Allows me to play online. I leave the disc out that I paid money for. As long as they don't go stupid on us, I'll still buy their good games.

So if a paying customer wants the game on his notebook... goes out of town or someplace without a constant connection... he's SOL? And in case nobody noticed, UBI's servers went down and their paying customers couldn't play their game and what about 3 or 5 years from now? When EA doesn't want to waste the bandwith on an old game that only had 50,000 paying customers and theres only a few thousand left? Pull the plug?

Stop thinking like a complete retard... heavy DRM hurts your business, doesn't stop pirates, never has... how long have YOU been in business? Oh yeah, since about 1980. Hmmm, nothing has chanced in 30 years!

Just because you put a condom on, doesn't mean its not rape when you give it to us in the rear.

Continue the BAN/boycott on ALL EA products.

 

[joe gamer]

@Joe Gamer The answer is demos and not buying games that don't have them. You already can protect yourself without resorting to piracy. If you are unsure about other products such as a car--you read up on it and maybe test it but if they won't let you test drive it, you don't steal it, do you? And you probably don't buy it either.

The console market has grown in a large part by eating the PC market share. People in game development that have been around long enough can testify to that even if you don't want to look at the ample historical sales data and trends. Yes, there are a few stalwarts that have a large enough fanbase that they can still command enough sales that piracy or no piracy, they make money. There is a reason more and more PC versions are held until after the console release--piracy. That means lower sales because less marketing and that will mean less dollars invested in PC games hence increase quality and spend on console games which in turn means more console gamers. This is the cycle that has been around for years. The breakouts from this are a few hits, new models like free to play, or budget games, mass market/non-core games and online connected games such as WOW.

And trade-ins . . . wow, that is another entirely different issue which is not too far off in the amount of damage it is doing to game development. 50% of profit for EB is used games. Over half the store space is dedicated to it. Very little of the money people get goes to new product. Here is the math: $50 game they give you $20 for and sell an hour later for $40. That's a lost sale for a new $50 so publisher gets zero and developer gets zero == massive layoffs in the games industry over the last two years. Yes, the $20 goes to a new game or component but the drag that has on the economics for the games business is huge . . . and then you have rentals . . . there is no box office for games so every title is akin to "Direct to Video." ie. one sales channel/stage unlike movies. If you want fewer games choices with a couple of high quality and a ton of low budget, keep up the "I will pirate to protect myself mentality." Oh and, how many of those pirated games that you played to protect yourself did you actually go buy afterward? 100%? 50%? or closer to 0? I love building gaming rigs . . . just wished it would continue to make sense.

Sounds like you're feeling a bit of entitlement yourself, complaining about the used game markets, shall we outlaw them, used cars, used houses, yeah lets put all the thrift stores out of business too. What makes games so special that THEY are above being resold? That's a bit unreasonable don't you think? As for comparing copyright infringement to car theft, If I could make an exact duplicate and leave the original your god damn right I would, but I can't, because they are NOT THE SAME GOD DAMN THING! Games, movies, music, it's all just data, and data is free, therefore in an economy of supply and demand, supply becomes infinite which logically results in a drastic drop in price, all these industries are fighting this "de-valuation" of content, DRM is about introducing artificial scarcity, piracy is just a convenient scapegoat. As for rentals, can't rent PC games far as I know, but rentals serve the same purpose in my mind as piracy, as a check against shitty games. As for which games I bought after trying them, only about 5%, but every game I finished, as in found it to be actually worthwhile to play all the way to the end I bought (sometimes twice), and that's good enough for me.

 

[gamedev]

Regarding a drastic drop in price--the cost for all materials for a retail PC game is roughly $2. Currently, the cost to digitally deliver that same size game is roughly 10 cents per gig at best or roughly 20 cents. Your justification just does not hold water regarding a drastic change in costs as most of the costs are not the goods themselves.

As far as entitlement--honestly, just want to see new and exciting PC games that do well in the market so that publishers keep investing in them and developers can afford to make them and profit by them.

And theft is theft even if you feel better about stealing a 'digital' version versus a chunk of metal ie. a car and it does not matter if you are stealing a BMW or a piece of junk like a Lada. Millions of dollars are spent on the development of that car and in fact, that is the biggest part of the expense of creating new cars (not the manufacturing). Same is true with video/PC games. Supply is changing (being driven down) but demand is arguably not but is being more and more filled by stealing (and shifting to console as mentioned already).

For movies, as stated previously, they already have a exclusive and captive channel with the box office and then they have established deals with movie studios on buying rental DVDs including profit sharing beyond the bulk sale of the actual movie although that is changing somewhat over the past number of years. But movie studios (publishers) can afford to break even with box office and profit from DVD sales as an almost worst case scenario. They are not affected by 'used' movies at this stage. They have your money even if it is a crappy movie. As well, their hardware is one format most of the time meaning ubiquitous hardware ie. a standard--not a fragmented market like the current console market. Yes, innovation would possibly be affected but 3DO had the right idea even if the wrong execution. We could then afford to sell games for $20 or less and sell to a massively bigger market. Making games for multiple platforms is expensive and wasteful. But now we are getting pretty off topic

But basically, if we did have a common platform (and some would argue that is what a PC could be), and prices were driven down to more mass market pricing such as $20 across the board, would piracy still continue at the same rate? I believe based on the attitude above which I believe to be prevalent that the answer is yes, it would. People would still steal at the same rate even when the argument about protecting themselves against crappy games wasting their $50 is drastically reduced or even eliminated. People just don't see the harm in it but don't realize that they are participating in harming families nationwide through their actions. It is a shame, the PC has the opportunity to be truly mass market and be the one platform that no one company owns especially as hardware power and prices continue to be inversely related. The ones that are going to profit are the companies like Apple, or Steam or others that have the most stringent DRM as part of their channel delivery and we did it to ourselves.

 

[joe gamer]

Regarding a drastic drop in price--the cost for all materials for a retail PC game is roughly $2. Currently, the cost to digitally deliver that same size game is roughly 10 cents per gig at best or roughly 20 cents. Your justification just does not hold water regarding a drastic change in costs as most of the costs are not the goods themselves.

As far as entitlement--honestly, just want to see new and exciting PC games that do well in the market so that publishers keep investing in them and developers can afford to make them and profit by them.

And theft is theft even if you feel better about stealing a 'digital' version versus a chunk of metal ie. a car and it does not matter if you are stealing a BMW or a piece of junk like a Lada. Millions of dollars are spent on the development of that car and in fact, that is the biggest part of the expense of creating new cars (not the manufacturing). Same is true with video/PC games. Supply is changing (being driven down) but demand is arguably not but is being more and more filled by stealing (and shifting to console as mentioned already).

For movies, as stated previously, they already have a exclusive and captive channel with the box office and then they have established deals with movie studios on buying rental DVDs including profit sharing beyond the bulk sale of the actual movie although that is changing somewhat over the past number of years. But movie studios (publishers) can afford to break even with box office and profit from DVD sales as an almost worst case scenario. They are not affected by 'used' movies at this stage. They have your money even if it is a crappy movie. As well, their hardware is one format most of the time meaning ubiquitous hardware ie. a standard--not a fragmented market like the current console market. Yes, innovation would possibly be affected but 3DO had the right idea even if the wrong execution. We could then afford to sell games for $20 or less and sell to a massively bigger market. Making games for multiple platforms is expensive and wasteful. But now we are getting pretty off topic

But basically, if we did have a common platform (and some would argue that is what a PC could be), and prices were driven down to more mass market pricing such as $20 across the board, would piracy still continue at the same rate? I believe based on the attitude above which I believe to be prevalent that the answer is yes, it would. People would still steal at the same rate even when the argument about protecting themselves against crappy games wasting their $50 is drastically reduced or even eliminated. People just don't see the harm in it but don't realize that they are participating in harming families nationwide through their actions. It is a shame, the PC has the opportunity to be truly mass market and be the one platform that no one company owns especially as hardware power and prices continue to be inversely related. The ones that are going to profit are the companies like Apple, or Steam or others that have the most stringent DRM as part of their channel delivery and we did it to ourselves.

We both obviously care about PC gaming but we are coming at it from opposite sides, I don't want to buy bad games because I think that will just encourage more bad games. I know most every developer out there wants their game to be the best and actually cares about the gaming experience, but I also know that the publishers couldn't give two shits less about gaming and they would shill whatever steaming pile they thought they could sell with a clever commercial or two.

I don't even think of steam as being DRM, it always works, works if I'm offline or on, gives me benefits like online storage and I can even apply mods to the games as long as I disable the auto-update feature for that game. With steam I still feel like I control how and when I play. The only way it could be better is if the "steam" part of valve was a separate non-profit organization that ALL developers could use to easily and cheaply distribute their games.

You think it's theft, I don't, not much more to say about that. It may be that each disc costs about $2 to distribute, but don't forget, gamestop wants their 20% as well and I get a disc/manual etc. Movies do have a different business model, I don't actually support that one either, I usually hate the theater and only go very rarely, Iron Man, and Avatar are about it. They use a "window" model to enforce scarcity and add artificial value to their content, their own little DRM scheme. Every year I think people will stop going but it never happens? Heh I have spent WAY WAY more money on PC games than movies.

I know that games take money to make, too much money, and as the costs have gone up so has the publishers power to dictate things like release windows(crunch), DRM requirments, platform support, and whatever other features they deem desirable. I think it used to be a partnership, creativity on one side and money on the other, but that's not the case anymore. Now it's just money money money and I personally don't really like it. DLC, microtransactions, subscription models, EA's "project ten dollars(costs $15?) god I hate it.

Man I suppose we are both way of topic, but that's what happens when people are passionate.

I love the idea of the PC as a common platform,the PC can do ANYTHING if the software is written. I have played 2 player Smash Bro's on PC via the dolphin emulator(used xbox remotes though) and it was awesome. Slow and buggy but tons of fun. Any game ever made could be played on computer if it was only written for it. Unfortunately It will probably never be mainstream in the way consoles are. "Gaming" computers sold by OEM's are stupid expensive so only home-built makes sense and the average couch jockey just isn't capable of hooking a computer up to their tv, or building a modest gaming rig. I have spent the last decade working computer support in various industries and I promise you, most people are not only incapable of learning how to maintain their computer, worse they don't even WANT to learn how. MS sure isn't going to make it any better for gaming, not with all the juicy licensing fees they collect from xbox. It is getting better, I can envision gaming capable HTPC's, and once enough people have them they will start making games for the living room and then there will be no need for another box(I can dream can't I?). Now I'm gonna go home and play some Bad Company 2

 

[Guest]

all of us should stop buying from ubisoft and let's see who wins.
they treat customers like crap but don't realize the company can
survive because of customers.
there're a lot of things benefit you in this world like get a girlfriend,
work overtime, study hard, plant trees.