EA Not Banning Consumers Wanting Refunds for SimCity

[mariusmotea]

EA has forgotten why people buy games. Not for productivity but for joy, and if you buy a game when you are excited and get angry because of them, then the customer paid almost for nothing.

 

[jalek]

This will all be forgotten when SimCity 2014 launches.. then 2015, 2016, etc.

 

[jalek]

[citation][nom]Christopher1[/nom]It's past time that the lawmakers put the hammer down and passed a 'digital is the same as physical' law that outlines that with either, you can get a refund if the service changes in a material way. [/citation]

SOE would go broke, they revamp every MMO they release a year or two out so it's much different.

Steam resales are another thing, if they had a system to uninstall and bundle a game so it could be moved to inventory, it could be traded by the user in digital form.

 

[noob2222]

who tries to request a refund through ingame chat?

but the same goes for pretty much any game, if you dispute the charges at your bank an not though the proper store, you can expect to get banned. Do that at a restaraunt and you likely won't be eating there again.

 

[janetonly42]

No need to ban me EA, I already banned you a while back, now go F yourself.

 

[gottagovomit]

We all have been laying the groundwork for this kind of treatment for years now.

1. First we allowed retailers to stop accepting returns on physical game boxes, even if unopened.

Rights lost: To return a game that turns out to suck.

2. Then we bought into the hype of pre-ordering games - something that made partial sense perhaps for physical game discs, in rare cases, but became especially pointless once things went digital ("If i don't load it now, it might not play it until 24 hours after launch - OH NOES!").

Rights lost: To know how other consumers are finding the product (AFTER launch) before ponying up your own dough.

3. When everything went digital, we accepted terms in most cases that amount to: "This is final sale", and a business model where once the game "key" has been assigned to you, it cannot be returned, refunded, transferred, unassigned.. nothing.

Rights lost: Again, the right to return a product which does not satisfy the customer.

4. Supported the game industry big players as they restructured their business model to consist of 90% Marketing and Hype Building, and the remaining 10% of actual developers. It used to be the other way around.

Rights lost: Well, you are basically paying big bucks for the marketing of the game these days, not an actual product.

5. Almost forgot - buying games with an always-on requirement when it does not need to be included.

Rights lost: Almost any and all control over your own purchase.

So there you go. There are probably other points to add but those are the big ones that have led us to this point.

 

[Saboom]

Folks need to realize that a company can put whatever they want on the ToS or their own rules but even if you write out something and make someone sign it, it is NULL AND VOID if it goes against the rule of law.

If your country has a consumer protection clause that covers refunds within a certain period of time, lemons, etc... then that always trumps whatever a company makes you agree to. If they refuse to issue refunds weather purchased digitally or retail box they will run afoul of those laws and can be sued.

A charge back is a last resort usually and you should document the steps you took to attempt resolution before going down that route. I can understand them locking out your whole account based on this but if there is no recourse for you to get access to you other games that you previously purchased I could see a lawsuit there.

 

[tupoun]

[citation][nom]audiophillia[/nom]Read them terms and conditions people. you signed away your consumers rights the second you join Origin.[/citation]

Probably depends in what country you live in. In EU, at least in Czech republic (and I don't think other EU states have different policy) it's illegal for the company to make you "tick" the EULA and "click" on I agree button and so easily waive your consumer rights guaranteed by the law (because the law explicitly says, that such a passage in terms and conditions to whatever product or service you may purchase is illegal). You can click on it, buy he product and don't even bother with that part. I am talking from my own experience.

 

[jigawatt]

[citation][nom]QEFX[/nom]And I remember when EA produced good games and tried to support the community. It's a shame that with Y2K EA became a company you want to avoid.[/citation]

EA got their start in the industry by playing dirty pool. They didn't want to pay the fee per cartridge that Sega required for the Genesis, so they reverse engineered a devkit and blackmailed Sega to give them lower prices per cartridge or they'd sell off their (Sega's) technology.

 

[amoralman]

This is stealing, pure and simple. I hope someone dies a painful death over this.

I don't know for other country/province/states, but here in the province of Quebec, Canada, there are laws (strong ones) that renders that kind of corporate bullying non-sense illegal. If someone were to be banned and not refunded, it would be easy to take them to court (small claims) and have an easy win. Although they are allowed to ban you from their service, they cannot keep your money at the same time. One way out for the company would be to provide the banned player with "cracks" to be able to play without being online.

 

[omnimodis78]

This whole situation just indirectly (or maybe even directly) underlines some of the key points that Woz commented on in regards to the cloud. The first thing that popped in my mind is this: "With the cloud, you don't own anything. You already signed it away" - in a way, isn't Origin and the concept of pervasively on-line gaming (even if files are downloaded and installed on the PC) still regarded more cloud than local? If so, this is why EA doesn't even flinch when telling people they won't be getting refunds - because probably legally they don't have to. Sad, really.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/apple-cloud-wozniak-subscriptions-data,16645.html

 

[sparrowlord01]

Why doesn't this surprise me. EA has always had the largest case of corporate arrogance that I have ever heard of, but this is just stupid. They charge $59 for an online game, and save quite a bit with digital downloads. No physical media to produce, and no shipping to contend with. It's not like someone can download it, register it, play it, then get a refund and keep on playing it. If they issue a refund, then all EA has to do is remove the serial key from Origin.

This is why I do not like Download versions. As stated, if banned, then you lose everything you have paid for. That's so unfair it should be illegal.

EA's support has never been all that good. I have had issues with no resolution from EA on numerous occasions. All that happens is that some tech who can barely type in English will read off a set number of useless things to do from a script, then make you jump through hoops for a week, then nothing gets solved. On a few occasions, I had to tell them how to fix the issue, after eventually figuring it out for myself.

This is not the way to keep customers...

These games are not cheap. I was going to buy SimCity until I heard about it having to be online. To me, it's just another example of EA's control freak mentality... And I really don't like online games. I like a game I can sit down and play, without having to deal with slow servers or dozens of other distractions. Maybe someday EA will get the hint that they aren't the only game publisher out there, and start treating their customers a bit better. I know that if they banned me for demanding a refund, they would have a letter from a lawyer within a week...

 

[multiverse8]

EA is a tumor to the gaming industry. This only reinforces my decision to never buy another game from them again.

 

[Guest]

lol keep it EA along with all your other games if that's how you treat you customers!! your quick enuff to take the cash not matter if the game is good or total rubbish or even working as advertised, but if the customer is not happy then sod em we already have your cash and you agreed so ah heck all ya can do about it attitude I will never by a download from ya. thanks for the heads up though.

 

[DRosencraft]

And that is why I've refused to buy any online only games and any game I don't have a physical copy of. If the game turns out to be garbage I can always sell it on eBay or at the local Gamestop and at least get something back for it, and I don't have to worry about being kicked off anyone's stupid service.

 

[SirGCal]

The biggest part of all of this:

This is a PRIME example of why I do not support EA. Haven't in a while. They do NOT care about the consumer. And every independent game company that gets consumed by this monster brings another tear to my cheek.

There are reasons why EA won the "Worst company in America" award from Forbes:
http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/04/09/why-ea-won-the-worst-company-in-america-award/

And voted worst company 2012 by consumerist.com:
http://consumerist.com/2012/04/04/congratulations-ea-you-are-the-worst-company-in-america-for-2012/

And even Forbes started a petition against DRMs and are calling it the 'SimCity Effect' (cute).
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2013/03/08/the-simcity-effect-we-need-an-industry-wide-return-policy-for-defective-and-unplayable-games/

(Love the pic at the bottom).

It takes real commitment to poo on your consumers to get this type of reviews. It's not just some pissed off gamers saying a few things. And to be honest, I can't believe they haven't tried to change their image. Slow down (allow developers to release what they intended to instead of rushed, unfinished trash that will tarnish the names), step back and listen to the people to pay your salaries (us! well, not me anymore. I fired ya'll).

I didn't buy SimCity 5 strictly because EA owned it (and I heard it had always on DRM requirement. Didn't buy D3 for the same reason). Glad I stuck to my guns. I picked up SimCity 4 recently for almost nothing (they only way they get ANY of my money) and it's a much nicer game period, let alone stable, no online requirements, can do larger cities, etc. Comparing the two, I don't see the upgrade to 5... ???

 

[SirGCal]

[citation][nom]DRosencraft[/nom]And that is why I've refused to buy any online only games and any game I don't have a physical copy of. If the game turns out to be garbage I can always sell it on eBay or at the local Gamestop and at least get something back for it, and I don't have to worry about being kicked off anyone's stupid service.[/citation]

Just buy games from a 'good' service. I've had a few "disputes" with games from the Steam library and they've got phenominal customer service. I don't use Origin or games that require it to run. It's an EA product that I don't support. It is nothing like Steam, at all really, especially when you bring (any) customer service into the picture.

 

[twelch82]

[citation][nom]flamethrower205[/nom]I smell a lawsuit[/citation]

Somebody probably got a headstart putting together the class-action paperwork on launch night.

 

[alidan]

[citation][nom]twelch82[/nom]Somebody probably got a headstart putting together the class-action paperwork on launch night.[/citation]

they deserve it

[citation][nom]jigawatt[/nom]EA got their start in the industry by playing dirty pool. They didn't want to pay the fee per cartridge that Sega required for the Genesis, so they reverse engineered a devkit and blackmailed Sega to give them lower prices per cartridge or they'd sell off their (Sega's) technology.[/citation]

got a source for that claim?

 

[noob2222]

[citation][nom]amoralman[/nom]This is stealing, pure and simple. I hope someone dies a painful death over this.I don't know for other country/province/states, but here in the province of Quebec, Canada, there are laws (strong ones) that renders that kind of corporate bullying non-sense illegal. If someone were to be banned and not refunded, it would be easy to take them to court (small claims) and have an easy win. Although they are allowed to ban you from their service, they cannot keep your money at the same time. One way out for the company would be to provide the banned player with "cracks" to be able to play without being online.[/citation]
read the article. He was gonig to get banned IF he disputed the charge at his bank. If you didn't pay for the product, you don't get to play.

 

[STravis]

Translation:

"Not only can you not play our sucky game, but we're even going to ban you - from playing our sucky game"...

LOL

 

[STravis]

[citation][nom]amoralman[/nom]This is stealing, pure and simple. I hope someone dies a painful death over this.I don't know for other country/province/states, but here in the province of Quebec, Canada, there are laws (strong ones) that renders that kind of corporate bullying non-sense illegal. If someone were to be banned and not refunded, it would be easy to take them to court (small claims) and have an easy win. Although they are allowed to ban you from their service, they cannot keep your money at the same time. One way out for the company would be to provide the banned player with "cracks" to be able to play without being online.[/citation]

Small claims court is the best way for ordinary citizens to break the backs of these large companies. Death by a 1000000 paper cuts.

 

[thecynicalmonk]

Why would EA even want to ban people for requesting a refund?? That just bad business... Not to mention odd.

 

[Markon101]

EA is just about as bad as a corporation can get. If only we could get the share holders to drop them......

 

[mlopinto2k1]

It's one thing to put legal jargon in a 15 page EULA but something that is the equivalent of theft should be bold and upfront. I don't care if you want to "BAN" me from using your service, but if you do... I better be getting my purchases in physical form or my money back.