Edges Flickering/Shimmering in all games! Help!

[Jswen4]

Alright, here it goes. I have been pulling my hair out over this issue, so any help here would be MUCH appreciated.

The issue is: in all my games; minecraft, skyrim, L4D, Dishonored, NBA 2k, (even youtube videos of gameplay) the edges of textures (in the distance) flicker and sort of crawl as the camera moves. It happens more to thin textures like ropes, rails, fences, etc... especially if theres a light source. It is really distracting and was NEVER there before. Again, my computer was looking great and out of no where this issue arose.

I have tried the following:
1. I tested 4 different graphics cards both amd and nvidia all with the same issue.
2. No amount of AA or AF or TRAA helps. It does its job because up close textures look amazing but distant textures still shimmer badly.
3. I tried re-positioning the graphics card 4 or 5 times. And tried putting it in different slots.
4. I tried the latest version of the nvidia driver, using driver sweeper and have the same issue. I have also tried older versions of the driver as well.
5. I checked all my hardware, there's enough power getting to everything, my cpu is running cool and smooth, even my games run amazingly well except for this issue.
6. I have tried 3 different monitors and different dvi/avg cables. Still persists.
7. I have updated the BIOS to its latest version. No help.
8. I have messed around with every setting in the nvidia control panel. Especially things like negative LoD bias and what not. Still no help.

Nothing is OC at the moment.

I have honestly tried everything i can think of [strike]except re installing windows[/strike] and/or trying to figure out what piece of hardware might be causing this. If anyone can help me out it would be much much appreciated. Thanks.

UPDATE: Here is a video I made of what this problem looks like in skyrim. Its much worse in-game (watch in 720p): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlg4C0_3fUM

Edit: I re-installed windows and the problem is still there, so theres that crossed of the list.

Specs: Windows 7 Home Premium SP1
GTX 670 (Nvidia) x1
i5 2500-k Sandy Bridge @3.3 ghz
Acer 1600 x 900 lcd screen
8k MB of RAM

 

[bystander]

I don't see anything unusual, but at 360p it would have been down sampled and alter the way it looks.

What size and resolution is your monitor now?

Look at 1080p. My monitor is 24" which seems too big for 1080p.

You wrote this:

Here's an example video I made, unfortunately it's only at 360p atm but you'll be able to see soon. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVb5YnU0kvk&feature=you...

I am viewing at 1080p, but if you uploaded the video at 360p, the quality is changed. If you changed it recently, I've seen it both times (I could force it to 1080p, but not sure if there was any conversions). Either way, that is how the game looks for everyone.

 

[bystander]

Anyway, if you go to a higher PPI, you'll still get the crawling edges, that is just a problem with aliasing. It will be smaller, so maybe it'll be less noticeable. You'll also note that playing from a longer distance will make it harder to notice. Ever watch a sports game, that has lots of straight lines either on the field or score keeping up close? The aliasing is very noticeable, back up and you don't notice it.

 

[robbob_70]

hi there,
i think i may be experiencing this exact problem.

i have recorded gameplay footage of the 'shimmering' ...... and it's pretty severe on my Pc.
here's the footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkLXklXjXdM

^the first game in the video is the example i'm reffereing to. (alien isolation)
i'm running crossfire 290x vapors....

It's a complete nightmare....
is this what this threads about?


thanks,
J

 

[bystander]

hi there,
i think i may be experiencing this exact problem.

i have recorded gameplay footage of the 'shimmering' ...... and it's pretty severe on my Pc.
here's the footage:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkLXklXjXdM

^the first game in the video is the example i'm reffereing to. (alien isolation)
i'm running crossfire 290x vapors....

It's a complete nightmare....
is this what this threads about?


thanks,
J

Yes, that is what is being discussed. Yes that happens on all systems, though AA methods can fix or help disguise the problem. I'd try MSAA on that game, if the game supports it.

 

[SvediZZ]

I don't see anything unusual, but at 360p it would have been down sampled and alter the way it looks.

What size and resolution is your monitor now?

Look at 1080p. My monitor is 24" which seems too big for 1080p.

You wrote this:

Here's an example video I made, unfortunately it's only at 360p atm but you'll be able to see soon.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVb5YnU0kvk&feature=you...

I am viewing at 1080p, but if you uploaded the video at 360p, the quality is changed. If you changed it recently, I've seen it both times (I could force it to 1080p, but not sure if there was any conversions). Either way, that is how the game looks for everyone.

Ffs, Youtube videos are not at 1080p immediatelly after uploading them. It was at 360p when it finished uploading but it's rendered now.

 

[bystander]

As the quote says, I saw it both ways. There is nothing wrong with it. That is how the game looks. That is how most games look in regards to aliasing.

 

[smeezekitty]

Let me explain aliasing:

Aliasing happens because your display is a finite number of dots [pixels] arranged in a grid.
The problem occurs when you try to draw any line that isn't straight vertical or straight horizontal.
Since the pixels are arranged in a grid, some of the points on any line that isn't horizontal or vertical will
fall between pixels. But your display cannot display between pixels. It can only display whole pixels. (I am ignoring subpixel rendering for simplification and since it is rarely used in games)
What the software has to do is select the nearest pixel to the points in the line. This leads to a staggered
pattern of activated and deactivated pixels: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ab/Bresenham.svg/300px-Bresenham.svg.png
That staggered inperfect line is 'aliased'

Aliasing is mildly annoying on static scenes but it can get very annoying when the line moves.
Even changing the line a little bit will completely change the pattern of staggered pixels -- that is
the cause of shimmering and walking lines and edges.

Solving aliasing is very challenging. To completely get rid of, you would need a computer screen with infinite pixel density.
Obviously that is impossible. But a screen with an extremely high resolution and density will have much smaller aliasing artifacts
that would be imperceptible. Another option is anti-aliasing. Anti-aliasing is where instead of just picking the nearest pixel
to the points in the line, the line is blurred between a few nearby pixels effectively splitting the line between pixels.

There are downsides to AA though: It makes the picture a little blurry and it uses a lot of hardware resources to detect and smooth aliased lines.

Unfortunately, it is almost impossible to have zero aliasing because increasing the resolution or running large AA filters both take a huge amount of GPU resources.

 

[SvediZZ]

As the quote says, I saw it both ways. There is nothing wrong with it. That is how the game looks. That is how most games look in regards to aliasing.

Haha ye, no.

 

[robbob_70]

thanks Bystander, for the response and explanation.

what i don't understand though, is how come you never see the aliasing artifacts in CGI in films (even old ones)
and do some games fair better than others..? As i am so dissapointed in Alien:Isolation -> it's so incredibly beautifull visually; but the 'lines' / aliasing pretty much ruin the experience... (it hurts my eyes after a while, all the walking lines 'shimmering')
i can see how a larger resolution would help...

another thing i don't understand is how i never noticed the aliasing/shimmering lines whilst playing on my PS3,,,, it always seemed to be aftifact free (be it at 30fps e.t.c)
i'd hoped the move to P.C would eliminate such issues 🙁

j

 

[bystander]

thanks Bystander, for the response and explanation.

what i don't understand though, is how come you never see the aliasing artifacts in CGI in films (even old ones)
and do some games fair better than others..? As i am so dissapointed in Alien:Isolation -> it's so incredibly beautifull visually; but the 'lines' / aliasing pretty much ruin the experience... (it hurts my eyes after a while, all the walking lines 'shimmering')
i can see how a larger resolution would help...

another thing i don't understand is how i never noticed the aliasing/shimmering lines whilst playing on my PS3,,,, it always seemed to be aftifact free (be it at 30fps e.t.c)
i'd hoped the move to P.C would eliminate such issues 🙁

j

From what I've read, CGI takes place at multiple times larger resolutions, then they shrink it down to 1080p, which applies down sampling style AA and they may also be applying SSAA on the original, super high resolution images, even before they are down sampled.

Sadly, games are going to continue to have this issue. In games which aren't very demanding, I have gotten accustomed to using down sampling. With Nvidia, you can create custom resolutions quite easily, which will then be down sampled by your monitor or GPU when displayed, after the frames are rendered. It's not perfect, but it is pretty good. Even 1440p down sampled to 1080p looks much improved.

 

[PaulSZ]

But "Aliasing" or whatever you like to call shouldn't appear in all games even in GTA V at *8x MSAA*.
Also, happens in videos on all sites (Youtube, Dailymotion, Facebook).
NB: It happens in my laptop too. Tried another PC, my PC in a friend's house, the problem remains. However, the other PC runs perfectly in my friend's house.

 

[bystander]

But "Aliasing" or whatever you like to call shouldn't appear in all games even in GTA V at *8x MSAA*.

Yes, it should happen, unless playing very old games. MSAA only hits very targeted aliasing. MSAA is quite limited on what lines it will work on. It was designed so that it wouldn't slow down the GPU as much as SSAA, but it does that by limiting the scope of what it will be applied to.

Also, happens in videos on all sites (Youtube, Dailymotion, Facebook).
NB: It happens in my laptop too. Tried another PC, my PC in a friend's house, the problem remains. However, the other PC runs perfectly in my friend's house.

Aliasing on Youtube shouldn't happen much, unless the content shown is a game or something that can have aliasing itself. Pictures of aliasing still have aliasing. You shouldn't see aliasing in Facebook, unless looking at pictures that have aliasing.

 

[SvediZZ]

I understand that it is very difficult to conceal and such. What I don't understand is how come I almost didn't realize it before but now it's pretty apparent.

 

[bystander]

I understand that it is very difficult to conceal and such. What I don't understand is how come I almost didn't realize it before but now it's pretty apparent.

1) You are fixated on it now.
2) Newer games have more aliasing than past games due to rendering a lot more detail.
3) Newer games don't offer things like SSAA as much as the past, and MSAA is not applied to as high of a percentage of objects as in the past. Often games only offer low grade AA methods like FXAA or SMAA.
4) Newer games use new techniques that are not compatible with MSAA.
5) And to the 5 year old in you who continues to say "why": Because, that is how it is.

 

[SvediZZ]

I understand that it is very difficult to conceal and such. What I don't understand is how come I almost didn't realize it before but now it's pretty apparent.

1) You are fixated on it now.
2) Newer games have more aliasing than past games due to rendering a lot more detail.
3) Newer games don't offer things like SSAA as much as the past, and MSAA is not applied to as high of a percentage of objects as in the past. Often games only offer low grade AA methods like FXAA or SMAA.
4) Newer games use new techniques that are not compatible with MSAA

If you say so, but I'll still get an IPS monitor since I'm not so pleased with the colors on my current monitor. Or any TN panel for that matter. Also, it might just be because my previous monitor was 20", that I didn't bother with the flickering as much.

 

[Lumzi]

It is not aliasing. The problem also comes with texture problems, shadow flickering and low render detail. A lot of people are suddenly having it so it can't be imagined. I know what aliasing is. This is different.

 

[bystander]

It is not aliasing. The problem also comes with texture problems, shadow flickering and low render detail. A lot of people are suddenly having it so it can't be imagined. I know what aliasing is. This is different.

Correction, everyone has it, assuming you are talking about that Skyrim example video. Not everyone complains about it. Yes, the textures play a large role in this, as textures get aliasing too, but most forms of AA don't touch textures. Shadows also alias.

 

[SvediZZ]

So I got a new monitor and every letter and stuff is still jagged (everything, it's no ClearType related). Also I can notice the flickering BS on every single game, whether it's on my phone, PS3, PS4 or PC, it's everywhere and it has made me stop playing games completely. I think there's something with my eyes or something.

 

[bystander]

The only problem is you are fixated on it now.

 

[SvediZZ]

The only problem is you are fixated on it now.

Yeah, I guess.

 

[bystander]

Another option, to somewhat minimize it, is to play from a distance. Even looking at TV shows, if you get up close to the shows, you'll see aliasing, but backed off, you don't. You might consider 4K as a monitor too. You might have to lower settings, but the aliasing will be harder to see.

 

[SvediZZ]

I've kinda found out what my "problem" is. Everything that looks jagged and such on my PC like letters and stuff seems to have missing pixels so they're not completely round. It's not a dead pixel but it's kinda like that there's a pixel off the background instead of the actual item so it makes it jaggy. I'm sorry I couldn't really explain it any better.

 

[bystander]

I've kinda found out what my "problem" is. Everything that looks jagged and such on my PC like letters and stuff seems to have missing pixels so they're not completely round. It's not a dead pixel but it's kinda like that there's a pixel off the background instead of the actual item so it makes it jaggy. I'm sorry I couldn't really explain it any better.

That's the nature of aliasing. You cannot create round shapes with a grid of pixels. There will always be jagged edges as it tries to simulate a round shape. As objects move in the xyz axises the spots where these jagged edges are shift within the object itself, making it look like the crawl. I think that part annoys people the most.

 

[SvediZZ]

I've kinda found out what my "problem" is. Everything that looks jagged and such on my PC like letters and stuff seems to have missing pixels so they're not completely round. It's not a dead pixel but it's kinda like that there's a pixel off the background instead of the actual item so it makes it jaggy. I'm sorry I couldn't really explain it any better.

That's the nature of aliasing. You cannot create round shapes with a grid of pixels. There will always be jagged edges as it tries to simulate a round shape. As objects move in the xyz axises the spots where these jagged edges are shift within the object itself, making it look like the crawl. I think that part annoys people the most.

What's bugging me tho is that it looks the same from a distance as if I look at the letter from 1cm away.

 

[LittllBlue]

So this is just normal AA? He's not lying or fixated on it, its there i can share forum after forum of ppl trying to fix it. Watch this in HD and keep your eye's on the trees.

[video="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TyT8qsmaNo"][/video]