EFF Shows Evidence That AT&T, Verizon And Sprint Helped NSA With Mass Collection Of Phone Records

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Larry Litmanen

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I fail to see why people are angry at these companies, government ORDERS them to provide the data. If you have an issue with data collection, well we have a head of government his name is Barack, he gave an order and Verizon and such had to comply.

 

CL537

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Larry, you fail to see an issue with the government performing an illegal search and seizure? The government is not above the law, and that is the problem with this gathering, it was performed without any probable cause on millions of people. I find it disturbing how such few people are bothered by this action.
 

Larry Litmanen

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Larry, you fail to see an issue with the government performing an illegal search and seizure? The government is not above the law, and that is the problem with this gathering, it was performed without any probable cause on millions of people. I find it disturbing how such few people are bothered by this action.

You missed my point, i know government is behind this, i did not say i agree with what government does. But if you find spying to be an issue the solution is not to blame Verizon or cancel their service, the solution is to vote.

Verizon is following orders, in the news there was a lady who refused to follow orders to issue marriage licence to gay couples, guess what she was jailed. Same here, if Verizon will refuse to company they will be fined and ultimately someone will be jailed.

Again, the issue is not telecom companies, the issue is politicos who pass laws, take a look at who is in charge..............been there for 8 years now.
 

toadhammer

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I fail to see why people are angry at these companies, government ORDERS them to provide the data. If you have an issue with data collection, well we have a head of government his name is Barack, he gave an order and Verizon and such had to comply.
Larry, you fail to see an issue with the government performing an illegal search and seizure? The government is not above the law, and that is the problem with this gathering, it was performed without any probable cause on millions of people. I find it disturbing how such few people are bothered by this action.
The root of it is whether such an order from the US govt is legal, and if so what scope is legal. "National Security Letters" have been used in the past to bludgeon compliance and secrecy in the name of some vague threat with no way to question it. They have been found unconstitutional, in part because the gag order seemingly prevents consulting an attorney. Fighting these is far too rare.
 

BrandonYoung

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Larry, you fail to see an issue with the government performing an illegal search and seizure? The government is not above the law, and that is the problem with this gathering, it was performed without any probable cause on millions of people. I find it disturbing how such few people are bothered by this action.

You missed my point, i know government is behind this, i did not say i agree with what government does. But if you find spying to be an issue the solution is not to blame Verizon or cancel their service, the solution is to vote.

Verizon is following orders, in the news there was a lady who refused to follow orders to issue marriage licence to gay couples, guess what she was jailed. Same here, if Verizon will refuse to company they will be fined and ultimately someone will be jailed.

Again, the issue is not telecom companies, the issue is politicos who pass laws, take a look at who is in charge..............been there for 8 years now.
This began after 9/11, do you recall who was in office then? It was not who we have now just in case you are unsure.
 

Larry Litmanen

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Larry, you fail to see an issue with the government performing an illegal search and seizure? The government is not above the law, and that is the problem with this gathering, it was performed without any probable cause on millions of people. I find it disturbing how such few people are bothered by this action.

You missed my point, i know government is behind this, i did not say i agree with what government does. But if you find spying to be an issue the solution is not to blame Verizon or cancel their service, the solution is to vote.

Verizon is following orders, in the news there was a lady who refused to follow orders to issue marriage licence to gay couples, guess what she was jailed. Same here, if Verizon will refuse to company they will be fined and ultimately someone will be jailed.

Again, the issue is not telecom companies, the issue is politicos who pass laws, take a look at who is in charge..............been there for 8 years now.
This began after 9/11, do you recall who was in office then? It was not who we have now just in case you are unsure.
He who was not there when 9/11 took place had no issues changing laws when he was elected, so by keeping those laws and in fact using them to the full extend he sort of owns them.

Once again, issue is not Verizon or whoever, issue is laws on the books. If you have a problem with Verizon spying on you don't picket Verizon's HQ, vote.
 

Apeiiron

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This is like saying someone went on the stand because they were subpoenaed. Of course they helped...they were told.
 

Larry Litmanen

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This is like saying someone went on the stand because they were subpoenaed. Of course they helped...they were told.
In today's politicized PC world this is what we came to. If Verizon follows the law ohhh Verizon is spying on Americans, if Verizon doesn't ohhh Verizon refuses to do what the nations first African American president asked them to do.

It's a LAW, companies are told to spy on people by the government.
 

chalabam

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Larry, you fail to see an issue with the government performing an illegal search and seizure? The government is not above the law, and that is the problem with this gathering, it was performed without any probable cause on millions of people. I find it disturbing how such few people are bothered by this action.
I tried to vote you up, and voted you down.

I'm not allowed to change it.
 

turkey3_scratch

Polypheme
Ambassador
If it is not in the phone contract agreement that the government can collect data from you, then it should not be allowed. If it was in the fine print, it would be perfectly alright because you are agreeing to the contract and its written statements, but they should have some form of fine print that explicitly states this information is being collected by a government program. So yes, one can argue the government is doing an invasive, unreasonable search and breaking the Fourth Amendment. Of course, at the time this Amendment was created it was specifically talking about physical searches of homes, as well as the forced quartering of troops.

One can argue the government is not actually seizing your information since you are technically the one putting it out there and emitting its data via radio waves, rather than they brute-force stealing your phone. Anyway though, citizens have laws to follow and the government has laws to follow. The government will try to break its own laws as much as possible, and it is the citizens who are the jury then and have to condemn the government.
 

bin1127

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This is like saying someone went on the stand because they were subpoenaed. Of course they helped...they were told.
In today's politicized PC world this is what we came to. If Verizon follows the law ohhh Verizon is spying on Americans, if Verizon doesn't ohhh Verizon refuses to do what the nations first African American president asked them to do.

It's a LAW, companies are told to spy on people by the government.
So you're saying Donald Trump will stop the spying. Would you like to expand your argument for this a bit more?
 

turkey3_scratch

Polypheme
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It is not a law. All laws are fully accessible to the citizens. The citizens have the full 100% right to view and know the laws. Please do show me this law. Obviously, the government just pays off Verizon, AT&T, and Sprint (no wonder how they stay in business).
 

sykozis

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This is like saying someone went on the stand because they were subpoenaed. Of course they helped...they were told.
In today's politicized PC world this is what we came to. If Verizon follows the law ohhh Verizon is spying on Americans, if Verizon doesn't ohhh Verizon refuses to do what the nations first African American president asked them to do.

It's a LAW, companies are told to spy on people by the government.
This has absolutely nothing to do with Obama. It's entirely about actions taken under the Bush Administration, which ordered telecos to collect and store such data, illegally. The order requiring the telecos to collect the data ended prior to Bush leaving office. If they're still collecting the data, it's of their own choosing.
 

alextheblue

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This has absolutely nothing to do with Obama. It's entirely about actions taken under the Bush Administration, which ordered telecos to collect and store such data, illegally. The order requiring the telecos to collect the data ended prior to Bush leaving office. If they're still collecting the data, it's of their own choosing.
The laws changed when Bush left office? They're collecting the data voluntarily? LMAO! Do people really believe this kind of nonsense? I hope you're trolling.

Thank God Obama helped repeal all those laws- oh wait he didn't and in fact he utilizes the same domestic spying apparatus that his supporters decried! The NSA is as strong as ever, they just compel ISPs to collect data for them now. Same result, different tactic.
 

Larry Litmanen

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Jan 22, 2015
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This is like saying someone went on the stand because they were subpoenaed. Of course they helped...they were told.
In today's politicized PC world this is what we came to. If Verizon follows the law ohhh Verizon is spying on Americans, if Verizon doesn't ohhh Verizon refuses to do what the nations first African American president asked them to do.

It's a LAW, companies are told to spy on people by the government.
So you're saying Donald Trump will stop the spying. Would you like to expand your argument for this a bit more?
This has absolutely nothing to do with Obama. It's entirely about actions taken under the Bush Administration, which ordered telecos to collect and store such data, illegally. The order requiring the telecos to collect the data ended prior to Bush leaving office. If they're still collecting the data, it's of their own choosing.
The laws changed when Bush left office? They're collecting the data voluntarily? LMAO! Do people really believe this kind of nonsense? I hope you're trolling.

Thank God Obama helped repeal all those laws- oh wait he didn't and in fact he utilizes the same domestic spying apparatus that his supporters decried! The NSA is as strong as ever, they just compel ISPs to collect data for them now. Same result, different tactic.
This has absolutely nothing to do with Obama. It's entirely about actions taken under the Bush Administration, which ordered telecos to collect and store such data, illegally. The order requiring the telecos to collect the data ended prior to Bush leaving office. If they're still collecting the data, it's of their own choosing.
The laws changed when Bush left office? They're collecting the data voluntarily? LMAO! Do people really believe this kind of nonsense? I hope you're trolling.

Thank God Obama helped repeal all those laws- oh wait he didn't and in fact he utilizes the same domestic spying apparatus that his supporters decried! The NSA is as strong as ever, they just compel ISPs to collect data for them now. Same result, different tactic.
It's so much easier to write this nonsense than to admit that dear leader is behind the spying.


@bin1127, i don't know Trumps position on spying...................i know Obama's, 8 years of spying.
 

Glysterine

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Aug 26, 2015
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[quote
So you're saying Donald Trump will stop the spying. Would you like to expand your argument for this a bit more? [/quote]

I'm pretty sure Rand Paul and Bernie Sanders are against the spying. Hillary and Donald seem like they're for it. That's a choice for and against on either side of the political spectrum, and it's those party primaries that are far more important to vote in. At least in those, your vote is a bigger drop in the bucket.
 

vgray35

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Nov 8, 2013
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The most important aspect of this issue is that no one is required to follow an unconstitional law or order, and that includes companies. To say phone companies were simply following orders is pure poppy-cock logic. You are not required to follow an order that is unconstitutional, no matter who issues that order. The companies simply took the easy way out, and for that they absolutely deserve a venomous rebuke. They are also very much to blame for not resisting when constitutionally they are required to do so.Barack does not own thse companies, and is only able to terrorize them, but it is the comapnies who are duty bound to resist. Get a clue people, companies are in cahoots with a renegade government, so do not tell me not to be angry with these companies. They deserve to be severely punished, - such is the gravity of this matter.
 

BrandonYoung

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Irregardless of our next leader, assuming they truly have the power to stop the issue is a bit naive at this point. Its quite easy to free a mad bull, but try to get him back in a pen. Since you are so eager to point fingers, remember who let the bull loose.
 

skit75

Splendid
I suspect this did not cost the telco's & wireless providers one single penny otherwise the public would have heard about it before Snowden. So, we have all likely bought into this program with tax dollars going to classified budgets via kickbacks and grease money of some kind.

Also, the NSA was building titanic data centers for this digital storage. The telcos and providers already have all this capacity to be charged with taking over what the NSA was doing for years.... and that won't cost us more on our monthly bills?
 

somebodyspecial

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Sep 20, 2012
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No, you're missing the point. The companies KNOW they are being asked to BREAK the law (their lawyers known it was illegal to collect all this crap) and probably chose financial incentives instead of standing up for the people. You're talking a single lady and a judge etc run a muck (now corrected, and probably going to get sued themselves). All they had to do was let other people do the signing in that case and nothing would have blown up (all she wanted). In this case what could govt do if all cable/phone companies said "get a warrant for SPECIFIC info or PISS OFF", just like the law says? They couldn't do squat. Companies in this case were WILLING and COMPLICIT in helping these losers running our govt. This is when you get ABUSE, like wiretapping Diane Feinstein (not that I like her). Is she a terrorist threat too? No, but without a warrant though, they just did it, because they wanted info to use on her because she was pissing them off...LOL. If companies had said "get a warrant" it never would have happened because that warrant would NOT have been issued. IF any pressure was put on them after telling govt to buzz off, they could just out the agency applying it on CBS/ABC/FOX/CNN etc all in one day and laugh as the damage comes down on that agency.

See the point? The companies & govt both need to be sued, so the next time, they make the PROPER decisions. IE, "GET A WARRANT OR BUZZ OFF".

My guess is, they received promises, financial incentives, maybe thumbs up on future mergers, get out of jail free cards for friends and family if ever caught doing ANYTHING (future pardons? LOL) etc (who knows) for just giving everything over without warrants.
 
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