News Ethereum Miners Likely Lost Money During the Past Two Years

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And, because we don't consider the few people who are living in impoverished countries, who could somehow ONLY manage to get some better standard of living via a way that is very energy-wasting and bad for the environment, cryptomining, makes us horrible people.

Do poor people really have thousands of dollars to spare for building a large enough private crypto-mining farm to transform their living situation?

 

[King_V]

Do poor people really have thousands of dollars to spare for building a large enough private crypto-mining farm to transform their living situation?

I am eagerly looking forward to a response that would explain this apparent paradox.

 

[Mister_junior]

Guys I am sorry, but author wrote nonsense. We have bought even pricier graphic cards what was written in article, but we still made insane profits. I have got my money back for hardware and bought a car from my crypto earnings. Now I just sell hardware and reinvest money back to cryto directly. I don't get crypto haters, because crypto enabled me to earn passive income while working main job. Guys who hodl got even, they bought houses and nice cars. We could't afford such things or we would havo to work without any free days to earn that. So please don't hate if you don't understand. If anybody wants I can write an essay about crypto and mining, because it's made for simple Joe as you and me. Now bigger companies are destroing great things for us, because they wanted all. But this winter will end. Some coins will survive, some coins will be obsolete, because things have to move forward. But writing stuff that you wrote is miserable, same as bankers told crypto is scam, after it dropped, they invested and earned alot. So I hope, someday we will have simple wallet and coin which we all can use. It will made by some geek, which believes you can use your money as you like, even if it's dangerious in some cases. So have nice evening invest in some coin, earn some percentage for your investment and get something nice for for your family. Stay safe and stay happy

 

[Mister_junior]

I am eagerly looking forward to a response that would explain this apparent paradox.

No they dont't but they cooperate, buy cheaper cards and earn something for it. They could spend that money for different things and earn nothing

 

[Mister_junior]

So, because we don't complain about a DIFFERENT problem when we're complaining about a specific problem that's addressed in this article, we're hypocrites. Got it.

And, because we don't consider the few people who are living in impoverished countries, who could somehow ONLY manage to get some better standard of living via a way that is very energy-wasting and bad for the environment, cryptomining, makes us horrible people.

I'm not really sure what exact point you're trying to make, as you seem to be ranting about living in a place that's so poor, yet, no other solutions are possible. ONLY cryptomining? I mean, why not go whole hog and start burning tires in an open pit?

How, in such a place, is one able to afford the GPU hardware that allowed for making money in crypto?

This feels like some kind of weird attempt on your part to try to guilt people away from opposing cryptomining, while describing a situation with so little actual detail that it seems exceptionally implausible.

Yes they can afford used gpus and make so much they can start business. There is a loy more electricity and fossil used for electricity to earn money, by corporate business but that doesn't bother anyone. Or even gamers, they use same gpus just for fun, how that is good? Waste some time, skill and resources, just for fun

 

[JarredWaltonGPU]

Guys I am sorry, but author wrote nonsense. We have bought even pricier graphic cards what was written in article, but we still made insane profits. I have got my money back for hardware and bought a car from my crypto earnings. Now I just sell hardware and reinvest money back to cryto directly. I don't get crypto haters, because crypto enabled me to earn passive income while working main job. Guys who hodl got even, they bought houses and nice cars. We could't afford such things or we would havo to work without any free days to earn that. So please don't hate if you don't understand. If anybody wants I can write an essay about crypto and mining, because it's made for simple Joe as you and me. Now bigger companies are destroing great things for us, because they wanted all. But this winter will end. Some coins will survive, some coins will be obsolete, because things have to move forward. But writing stuff that you wrote is miserable, same as bankers told crypto is scam, after it dropped, they invested and earned alot. So I hope, someday we will have simple wallet and coin which we all can use. It will made by some geek, which believes you can use your money as you like, even if it's dangerious in some cases. So have nice evening invest in some coin, earn some percentage for your investment and get something nice for for your family. Stay safe and stay happy

People who already had lots of crypto before this latest bubble made lots of money. People that started mining because of this bubble did not make a ton of money for the most part. It depends on when they got in and out, but if your advice is simply "MINE AND HODL UNTIL YOU MAKE TONS OF MONEY!" which seems to be the case, let me just point to the bogus Gamestop frenzy and the "HOLD THE LINE!" garbage. Billions were lost because of that scheme, and billions have been lost on crypto. Others have made billions as well, which is the nature of the beast, but if you made a ton of money and bought a house, it's not because you just started mining in 2021. Not unless you bought a LOT of GPUs (at least hundreds of them) and sold at close to the peak.

I put a fourth "maximum profit" option into the video that's at the top of the article. Best-case, someone that bought a 3090 or 3080 might have netted close to $10,000. But that's a very unlikely scenario. Certainly some people made $4000 off such a GPU, by timing things decently, but you had to get in before the bubble, hold everything you mined for about a 8-12 months, and then sell it all before the crash. Most people didn't even start mining until early to mid 2021, GPUs were hard to come by and expensive, and if you started in March 2021 you missed out on about half the potential profits. If you bought RTX 3080 cards for $2,000 each and sold when Ethereum was over $4,000, you perhaps doubled your money. Not impossible, but also not the "typical" result.

 

[cryoburner]

Guys I am sorry, but author wrote nonsense. We have bought even pricier graphic cards what was written in article, but we still made insane profits. I have got my money back for hardware and bought a car from my crypto earnings.

Even if you got out early and made a sizable profit, that was effectively the result of selling the crypto to others who ended up losing money on it when its value plummeted. People make money off of scams every day, so profitability for some doesn't necessarily make it good for everyone. For those who bought the hype and invested in it only to see their savings drop to a fraction of what it was worth over a matter of months, it's absolutely not a good thing. Those people are certainly not "buying a car" with their profits, unless we consider the car they bought for those further up the line who effectively scammed them. : P

Or maybe you are just trying to spin some positivity on an article critical of crypto, in an attempt to help restore investor confidence and try to recoup some of the money you lost in recent months through your crypto investments.

One problem I see with crypto is that for the most part it doesn't really do anything that previously established monetary systems don't already do better. The crypto itself only holds any value because those trying to profit off of it convinced some investors that it does, not because its a viable product or service. It's value is completely speculative, and subject to wild swings, making it more of a gamble than an actual currency system. There's nothing to back its value, and while supply is supposedly limited due to the nature of mining, in reality the supply is effectively infinite as new currencies constantly pop up from those trying to make a quick profit. The only real advantage it currently offers is increased privacy, but that also makes it attractive for illicit transactions, making its value as a service even more questionable. And with governments increasingly trying to crack down on crypto, and increase tracking of transactions, it will effectively lose even that over time.

 

[TerryLaze]

Even if you got out early and made a sizable profit, that was effectively the result of selling the crypto to others who ended up losing money on it when its value plummeted. People make money off of scams every day, so profitability for some doesn't necessarily make it good for everyone. For those who bought the hype and invested in it only to see their savings drop to a fraction of what it was worth over a matter of months, it's absolutely not a good thing. Those people are certainly not "buying a car" with their profits, unless we consider the car they bought for those further up the line who effectively scammed them. : P

Oh common now.
So anybody that buys anything is a complete moron and isn't supposed to know what they are doing?

Anybody that spend money on buying crypto "as an investment" when crypto was starting to increase in value where knowingly and willingly betting their money on an extremely uncertain bet because the potential odds where really high.

Anybody that spend money on buying crypto "as an investment" when crypto was already blown up and well known to the whole world of how great an opportunity it is for gambling sorry "investing" these people need professional help, everybody knows, since the beginning of time, that a great deal that everybody knows about is a terrible deal.

One problem I see with crypto is that for the most part it doesn't really do anything that previously established monetary systems don't already do better. The crypto itself only holds any value because those trying to profit off of it convinced some investors that it does, not because its a viable product or service. It's value is completely speculative, and subject to wild swings, making it more of a gamble than an actual currency system. There's nothing to back its value, and while supply is supposedly limited due to the nature of mining, in reality the supply is effectively infinite as new currencies constantly pop up from those trying to make a quick profit. The only real advantage it currently offers is increased privacy, but that also makes it attractive for illicit transactions, making its value as a service even more questionable. And with governments increasingly trying to crack down on crypto, and increase tracking of transactions, it will effectively lose even that over time.

Better than paypal because it's instant instead of taking 3 days,
Better than credit/debit cards because it's extremely hard (compared to cards) to do identity theft, to steal credit card numbers/info and so on.

Since it's instant anybody that gets paid in crypto can dump it straight away and get their money in dollars or whatever they want,
it doesn't have to be stable or be backed by anybody, you can put a safeguard in your paying app that would stop accepting it if the crypto falls to a level where it would be difficult to immediately dump it for "real" money and that's it.

Credit card fraud was 32billion in 2021 projected to go up.

Card fraud worldwide forecast 2028 | Statista

Payment card - including both credit cards and debit cards is forecast to grow by over 10 billion U.S.

www.statista.com

 

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Better than paypal because it's instant instead of taking 3 days,
Better than credit/debit cards because it's extremely hard (compared to cards) to do identity theft, to steal credit card numbers/info and so on.

Crypto isn't instant: your transaction isn't official until it gets lumped into a block and depending on your luck, that can take 20+ minutes.

While credit card fraud is a PITA to deal with (happened to me twice), you can get charges reversed thanks to transactions being traceable and reversible. If credit card companies really wanted to make cards more secure, they could easily require that you log into your account/app to confirm transactions before letting them through, then it would be just as secure as your online bank account and app, which are likely more secure than most online crypto wallets and apps.

 

[KyaraM]

Not to mention that $0.10/kwh is extremely optimistic, at least in the US.

Well, unless you're a business. They apparently get lower rates than residential. I'm looking at current electricity rates, though.

But, if you're not in one of the super-cheap states for electricity, that cuts into profits even further.

As of today, the least expensive electricity per kwh is:

• Business - Idaho: $0.0792
• Residential - North Dakota: $0.1003

It just goes up from there. Oh, and you most certainly do NOT want to do this in Hawaii.

It's even more optimistic in Europe, where a kWh can easily cost 0.40€.

To sum up 80% of the comments here: mining is terrible for the environment and you should feel bad about it BUT the 100 megacorporations -including those who manufacture disposable tech products that are obsolete the second they leave production line- that account for the 70% global greenhouse gasses emissions are definitely not the problem because they operate in a regular free market.

But anyway, it's not like all the spoiled guys living in the luxury of first world countries will be ever able to even imagine what's life in the depths of a country where most people have to make a living with less than $50 a month. Mining was great for a while then the big fat traders realised it was bad because people in third world hellholes that are America's backyard were able to eat 2 times a day, how dare them?! Execute Dump 66.
I'd wish for some users in this thread to live for a month in my country but that'd be a fate worse than death but... guess I'm not that cruel, I believe, at the right time, one should depart quickly and without any suffering from this world.

Who knows, maybe the promise of some place free of pain, sorrow and misery is real, so, there's only hope left.
Though it'd be a real shame if I wake up one day and the devil tells me "so, how was your first session down there?" heh... that guy would fit to be an Ambassador here 😈

Mod Edit - Language

This thread is about crypto, though, not other environmentally destructive industry practices. Which I criticize just as much, just not in a topic where it is not at all relevant. And I said it here before, and will say it again. The only tech product younger that 2 years that I own is my current main rig. Only reason I bought it is that it is 6 years old and didn't meet my requirements for both gaming and working anymore, which shifted recently. My old computer is nonetheless still in use at my parent's and will be for a couple more years. Other devices were exchanged because they broke, not because I didn't want them anymore. Sounds like a long-term investment to me. I do the same with literally everything else I own, too.

Also, I honestly don't believe your claims about making money with crypto in 3rd world countries. The "best" it did there is make rich guys richer. If you can't bring two meals a day on the table, you certainly cannot buy even one of those high-end cards, or the rest of what you would need, for that matter, that you would need to get anything out of mining, and neither could you pay that electricity bill. If your house wiring is even good enough to operate the rigs in the first place... and all that is assuming that the cards are even available to you.

Guys I am sorry, but author wrote nonsense. We have bought even pricier graphic cards what was written in article, but we still made insane profits. I have got my money back for hardware and bought a car from my crypto earnings. Now I just sell hardware and reinvest money back to cryto directly. I don't get crypto haters, because crypto enabled me to earn passive income while working main job. Guys who hodl got even, they bought houses and nice cars. We could't afford such things or we would havo to work without any free days to earn that. So please don't hate if you don't understand. If anybody wants I can write an essay about crypto and mining, because it's made for simple Joe as you and me. Now bigger companies are destroing great things for us, because they wanted all. But this winter will end. Some coins will survive, some coins will be obsolete, because things have to move forward. But writing stuff that you wrote is miserable, same as bankers told crypto is scam, after it dropped, they invested and earned alot. So I hope, someday we will have simple wallet and coin which we all can use. It will made by some geek, which believes you can use your money as you like, even if it's dangerious in some cases. So have nice evening invest in some coin, earn some percentage for your investment and get something nice for for your family. Stay safe and stay happy

Only nonsense I see here is coming from you cryptobros. You are about as believable as the guy I quoted above. Chances are, with how much it costs so set the miners up, you likely could have gotten that car and house anyways. Not saying I even believe you, tough, since I don't. And if you made anything, as others pointed out, you had coins before the ubble started. And no, I will rather not buy coins, thanks but no thanks. I don't like pyramid chemes and general scams, like heck I will fall for one now.

Yes they can afford used gpus and make so much they can start business. There is a loy more electricity and fossil used for electricity to earn money, by corporate business but that doesn't bother anyone. Or even gamers, they use same gpus just for fun, how that is good? Waste some time, skill and resources, just for fun

I am working in Environmental, my dude. Believe me, I absolutely hate big corps. But at least they generally produce things you can actually use, instead of imagiary bs. Also, same as to the guy above, just because I complain about crypto and not big businesses here in a topic about crypto and not big businesses, does NOT mean I'm not complaining about big businesses, ever. It just means this is not the place for it and all you do is deflecting.

Also, what I do in my free time after working for 8 hours each day, more if something happens which it does regularly, is none of your business. I'm neither wasting time, nor skills, nor resources in any real capacity. I relax, follow hobbies, and work on small projects. Pretty sure any scientist doing research into this matter will tell you how important free time and hobbies are for the mind.

 

[Deleted member 431422]

Guys I am sorry, but author wrote nonsense. We have bought even pricier graphic cards what was written in article, but we still made insane profits. I have got my money back for hardware and bought a car from my crypto earnings. Now I just sell hardware and reinvest money back to cryto directly. I don't get crypto haters, because crypto enabled me to earn passive income while working main job. Guys who hodl got even, they bought houses and nice cars. We could't afford such things or we would havo to work without any free days to earn that. So please don't hate if you don't understand. If anybody wants I can write an essay about crypto and mining, because it's made for simple Joe as you and me. Now bigger companies are destroing great things for us, because they wanted all. But this winter will end. Some coins will survive, some coins will be obsolete, because things have to move forward. But writing stuff that you wrote is miserable, same as bankers told crypto is scam, after it dropped, they invested and earned alot. So I hope, someday we will have simple wallet and coin which we all can use. It will made by some geek, which believes you can use your money as you like, even if it's dangerious in some cases. So have nice evening invest in some coin, earn some percentage for your investment and get something nice for for your family. Stay safe and stay happy

So that's how scalpers live. Nice, nice 😊

 

[spongiemaster]

Do poor people really have thousands of dollars to spare for building a large enough private crypto-mining farm to transform their living situation?

Average monthly salary in Sudan is $44. At its peak last year, my 3090 would mine that in about 3 days. It would not take thousands of dollars and a huge mining farm to improve these people's income by a measurable amount. A single lower end GPU would do it.

 

[spongiemaster]

I read the whole article, and it's a poor piece of journalism. I don't think it's up to your usual standard, and it strikes me as fishing for clicks over being balanced or factually accurate. You spend most of the article on exactly what my previous comment was about, an unrealistic scenario where you hold everything you mine:


Then, when you address how miners typically operate, you treat it as some sort of improbable scenario:

You also calculate the numbers for regularly selling mined coins with only one start date, rather than the two dates used for holding your earnings. And then the bias is compounded, by treating the card as an outright expense, rather than as a depreciating asset. Even using the current low values for used cards, profitability looks very different when the sale value of the card is included. I also take issue with the low calculated earnings for each card in general, but I'll concede that historical mining profitability is difficult to calculate accurately.

I agree with most of what you said. The problem with articles like these is how much of the data is based on assumptions and generalizations which can't really be proved either way with any actual data. So, basically the authors will pick a narrative that will draw the most traffic and cater to their audience and then try to make the calculations fit that narrative. Plenty of people made money off of mining. Ironically, most gamers who mined on the side likely ended up in the positive. The calculations for a gamer will look a whole lot different than they will for large scale miners. Depending on how you twist the math to fit your narrative, every gamer profited. A gamer would have bought the GPU anyway, so the hardware cost is written off right from the start. Any income at all can be considered profits from that perspective, and it would have been impossible to lose money even with astronomical electricity costs.

 

[JarredWaltonGPU]

I agree with most of what you said. The problem with articles like these is how much of the data is based on assumptions and generalizations which can't really be proved either way with any actual data. So, basically the authors will pick a narrative that will draw the most traffic and cater to their audience and then try to make the calculations fit that narrative. Plenty of people made money off of mining. Ironically, most gamers who mined on the side likely ended up in the positive. The calculations for a gamer will look a whole lot different than they will for large scale miners. Depending on how you twist the math to fit your narrative, every gamer profited. A gamer would have bought the GPU anyway, so the hardware cost is written off right from the start. Any income at all can be considered profits from that perspective, and it would have been impossible to lose money even with astronomical electricity costs.

The bigger problem is that article ideas and content don't always reflect the headline. That goes through the TH committee, which means things sometimes get changed. My original article headline was something like "GPU Mining Post-Mortem: A Look at the Past Two Years" and even the sub-header reflects that: "If you didn't sell your currency, you are probably operating at a loss."

Consider that as the starting point, and then imagine others coming along with numerous "But what about the PC cost? What about how much the cards are worth? What about... what about... what about!?"

The initial intent was to show that, after the collapse in cryptocurrency prices, if you didn't sell off a good chunk of your coins at higher prices, you might have ended up losing money. I'm certain a lot of mining farms didn't make nearly as much as they were hoping, likely due to holding too long. But if they're still holding, they might eventually see Ethereum (or BTC or whatever) get back to its former high and then they'll be well into the black again. Can they last that long? That depends on a lot of factors not worth digging into. And it's possible crypto will never again reach those lofty highs. 🤷‍♂️

Whether you profited from mining or not will depend on a lot of variables, not least of which is how much you paid for your GPU in the first place. The (current) best-case scenario looks like this, if that's helpful to those who want to argue further. This assumes starting right at the card's launch and mining 24/7, holding all Ethereum until maximum profit potential. Realistically, there's no way anyone did this well, especially considering shortages and GPU prices, but probably half the profitability was within reach of early adopters.

Note that I've updated the article with this fourth scenario, and now I'm checking this one off and won't be updating it again.

 

[KyaraM]

Average monthly salary in Sudan is $44. At its peak last year, my 3090 would mine that in about 3 days. It would not take thousands of dollars and a huge mining farm to improve these people's income by a measurable amount. A single lower end GPU would do it.

And how, exactly, is someone making $44 a month supposed to pay for a lower-end card? because, with that income, even a $200 card is a gigantic investment, and that's just the card, without everything else.

Again, if they struggle to put food on the table, I seriously doubt they have the money for a computer. And that's not even touching on if the hardware is even available in the first place. If they have electricity in the first place, and if yes, are the house lines good enough, and is the power grid in general good enough. Or if they have internet.

I work with people from Cameroon every day. I talked to one of them about her home, and she told me they had no computer at home dedpite being rich enough to send their daughters to a private school and university, and even the computer lab at her university, which was sponsored by a foreign foundation, didn't let anyone below a Master's degree close to them, because they wouldn't have had the money to repair or replace anything broken. The first time she work on a computer was when she migrated to Germany for her Master's.

Under those circumstances, again. Tell me how you think a guy with $44 a month can buy a computer for mining.

 

[dwn2brasstacks]

With Ethereum prices way down and mining profits trailing off toward nothing, we take a look at the potential profits from mining with various graphics cards over the past two years. What hardware came out ahead, and what was the best strategy for turning a profit?
Ethereum Miners Likely Lost Money During the Past Two Years : Read more

Terrible news for you all. The miners (who noone likes, including crypto holders) made out like the dirty bandits most of them are. The bag holders are the investors. The way these businesses operate, specifically these jackasses...sell the mined coins immediately which brings the value down a bit right off. I am sure some do hold at times, hoping for further fortunes but almost all of them sell right away. The later sell offs were mainly panick sellers. Alot of these are people who got in at the wrong times looking to make a fast buck. Some took out risky, high interest loans with the expectation of doubling their investment. Now they are upside down and have to get out of it, taking a large loss.

In this climate, it is incredible that Bitcoin is maintaining around 20k. The doom and gloomers who have predicted the end times 1,000 times now are once again late to the party. Investors knew it was going down, not sure exactly when and how much but pretty much the time frame given the new regulations and economic downturn this terrible regime is dragging us through.

It is not Bitcoin using so many resources, it is the miners flocking in to make money, often feloniously. They also are a huge part of the gpu shortage...but the worst vampires...the real scum of the scum are the scalpers who took this shortage to extremes and took advantage of people like you and me.

Of course with everything, scammers are rife and NFTS especially are susceptable to this. I stay the hell away from these as there are bright neon red flags everywhere. They are not bitcoin, they use bitcoin and are pure speculation assets dialed up to 11. People who invest in them are generally aware they are risky, basically like playing the lotto.

 

[spongiemaster]

The bigger problem is that article ideas and content don't always reflect the headline. That goes through the TH committee, which means things sometimes get changed. My original article headline was something like "GPU Mining Post-Mortem: A Look at the Past Two Years" and even the sub-header reflects that: "If you didn't sell your currency, you are probably operating at a loss."

Consider that as the starting point, and then imagine others coming along with numerous "But what about the PC cost? What about how much the cards are worth? What about... what about... what about!?"

If your original headline had been left in place, most of the arguing never would never have materialized. That's why the committee went with the clickbait headline instead. It's not the data you have that people are complaining about, it's the BS presentation wrapped around it telling them what they are supposed to conclude about it starting from the headline. Crappy situation. I'm sure you don't enjoy having to defend your work, which is respectable, because someone else is manipulating it in an unintended way.

 

[spongiemaster]

And how, exactly, is someone making $44 a month supposed to pay for a lower-end card? because, with that income, even a $200 card is a gigantic investment, and that's just the card, without everything else.

Again, if they struggle to put food on the table, I seriously doubt they have the money for a computer. And that's not even touching on if the hardware is even available in the first place. If they have electricity in the first place, and if yes, are the house lines good enough, and is the power grid in general good enough. Or if they have internet.

I work with people from Cameroon every day. I talked to one of them about her home, and she told me they had no computer at home dedpite being rich enough to send their daughters to a private school and university, and even the computer lab at her university, which was sponsored by a foreign foundation, didn't let anyone below a Master's degree close to them, because they wouldn't have had the money to repair or replace anything broken. The first time she work on a computer was when she migrated to Germany for her Master's.

Under those circumstances, again. Tell me how you think a guy with $44 a month can buy a computer for mining.

There are endless scenarios where people in these poorer countries could have improved their situations with mining. Whether or not any of them did, I don't know nor do I really care. If you can't come up with any on your own, that would explain why you missed the boat here and are now dumping your bitterness on people who were able to pull in profits. Cryptocurrency was not invented to close the wealth gap and bring up third world countries. I don't know where that idea came from. Crytpocurrency is just like any other money making tool, the ones who benefit from it the most are usually the ones that were already wealthy to begin with. That doesn't mean that no low income people benefited from this last crypto bubble.

 

[KyaraM]

There are endless scenarios where people in these poorer countries could have improved their situations with mining. Whether or not any of them did, I don't know nor do I really care. If you can't come up with any on your own, that would explain why you missed the boat here and are now dumping your bitterness on people who were able to pull in profits. Cryptocurrency was not invented to close the wealth gap and bring up third world countries. I don't know where that idea came from. Crytpocurrency is just like any other money making tool, the ones who benefit from it the most are usually the ones that were already wealthy to begin with. That doesn't mean that no low income people benefited from this last crypto bubble.

I never mined and never even considered participating in this horrible garbage. Stop projecting onto others. Some people still got a moral line in place. And had you read any of my comments here at all, you would know that I value the environment more than some hypothetical quick bucks. I can't eat money, especially not fake money, after all.

Btw, very weak deflection attempt. Try harder next time.

 

[TerryLaze]

I work with people from Cameroon every day. I talked to one of them about her home, and she told me they had no computer at home dedpite being rich enough to send their daughters to a private school and university, and even the computer lab at her university, which was sponsored by a foreign foundation, didn't let anyone below a Master's degree close to them, because they wouldn't have had the money to repair or replace anything broken. The first time she work on a computer was when she migrated to Germany for her Master's.

How come?! Do they have like really harsh import laws or something?! Here in Europe you can get used core2 duo systems for like €40-50 on the second hand market, that's full systems and from shops, private sales would be even cheaper, thin clients for like €20-30 how come there is not a single person in Cameroon that imports e-waste computers from Europe by the literal boatload to fix them up and sell them?
Sure it would still be like two moths of living money but it would be manageable by most.

And yes, you can put a 3090 on a core2 not that this is my point but that's what everybody will argue.

 

[KyaraM]

How come?! Do they have like really harsh import laws or something?! Here in Europe you can get used core2 duo systems for like €40-50 on the second hand market, that's full systems and from shops, private sales would be even cheaper, thin clients for like €20-30 how come there is not a single person in Cameroon that imports e-waste computers from Europe by the literal boatload to fix them up and sell them?
Sure it would still be like two moths of living money but it would be manageable by most.

And yes, you can put a 3090 on a core2 not that this is my point but that's what everybody will argue.

I can't tell you about Cameroon import laws, but I don't think it's a big market in any capacity at all, and recent computer hardware is rare and expensive in such a case. Chances are only companies can grab anything newer than a decade or so.
I don't consider 2 months of living money manageable, especially not if you need it all to survive. Chances are, if you have that little, you can't make big deposits, and what you do save up is better spent on stuff you need to continue living. Also, you might get that crap computer. Okay, whatever, let's say someone had enough for a $30 machine. Where do you get that GPU from now, and how? Because, those systems most likely lack one. The PSU you need? Last time I checked, a modern GPU needed more than an ancient 350W trash PSU that those machines usually use nowadays. Do you have a stable electric grid available, both in and outside your home? Do you have internet? How do you pay for all that until you get anything at all out?

I just checked some statistics. Last year, of the 25 million people in Cameroon, less than 10 million had internet connection. From 2020 to 2021, 1.6 million new connections were made. At this rate, even if we say it's stable, it isn't hard to see how even better-earning people might not have internet yet, even less at the start of the bitcoin craze, and someone who would profit from the setup you propose doubly not. Also remember said coworker made her Master's in Germany and worked here for 2 years now, so left over 4 years ago. And the statistics I looked at didn't make a difference between companies and private people, just counting internet connection, meaning quite a few of those are from companies, not the general public. I ask you again. How. Is. Someone. Making. $44. A. Month. Supposed. To. Pay. All. This.

 

[shady28]

Even if you got out early and made a sizable profit, that was effectively the result of selling the crypto to others who ended up losing money on it when its value plummeted.

And that's the de-facto definition of a Pyramid scheme. The people who start it (top of the pyramid) take money from the people who join later (closer to the bottom of the pyramid), until the pyramid collapses and takes anyone who hasn't already taken profits (i.e. stolen from the people on the bottom of the pyramid).

"A pyramid scheme is a business model that recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, rather than supplying investments or sale of products. As recruiting multiplies, recruiting becomes quickly impossible, and most members are unable to profit; as such, pyramid schemes are unsustainable and often illegal. "

 

[KyaraM]

And that's the de-facto definition of a Pyramid scheme. The people who start it (top of the pyramid) take money from the people who join later (closer to the bottom of the pyramid), until the pyramid collapses and takes anyone who hasn't already taken profits (i.e. stolen from the people on the bottom of the pyramid).

"A pyramid scheme is a business model that recruits members via a promise of payments or services for enrolling others into the scheme, rather than supplying investments or sale of products. As recruiting multiplies, recruiting becomes quickly impossible, and most members are unable to profit; as such, pyramid schemes are unsustainable and often illegal. "

This exactly.

 

[TerryLaze]

It would be a Pyramid scheme if the creators of crypto would be the ones selling you the GPUs you need to mine and you would only be able to mine so much before you had to recruit someone else and sell them a GPU (you already payed the top for) .

This is just a normal snowball effect, more and more people get into crypto which makes it increase more and more in value until it peaks and it starts to lose more and more value so more and more people get out of it.

 

[spongiemaster]

It would be a Pyramid scheme if the creators of crypto would be the ones selling you the GPUs you need to mine and you would only be able to mine so much before you had to recruit someone else and sell them a GPU (you already payed the top for) .

This is just a normal snowball effect, more and more people get into crypto which makes it increase more and more in value until it peaks and it starts to lose more and more value so more and more people get out of it.

Indeed. Crypto is a speculative asset and it's getting hammered just like other speculative assets. Calling crypto a pyramid scheme is akin to calling the stock market a pyramid scheme. My 401k has gotten blasted this year, down almost 20%. That price drop doesn't make it a pyramid scheme. That's just the sad state of the economy dragging everything down, including crypto. When the markets start going up again, so will crypto, and the cycle will continue.