Ethics, Politics Pit Tech Employees Against Their Bosses

[ravewulf]

Ethics? People who knowingly break laws are unethical.

And if the laws themselves are unethical?

 

[alextheblue]

Ethics? People who knowingly break laws are unethical.

And if the laws themselves are unethical?

You change them. Never pick and choose which laws you enforce. THAT'S unethical and illegal. If our elected idiots have issues with the laws as they stand, reach out across the aisle and compromise. Don't just make demands and practically soil yourself on live air. "Won't someone think of the children!"

Instead say hey, we're gonna fix this. We're gonna give those guys some of what they want, and we're gonna get this fixed.

 

[alextheblue]

How many stories did the MSM run with by only using a specific sound byte or image without context?

My personal favorite was when the Fresno Sheriff (Margaret Mims) asked him about MS-13 and he said they're animals. A ton of these networks knowingly ran with a cut-down sound clip, all you heard was his comments about calling some group animals - with zero context. They tried to claim he was calling ALL illegal immigrants animals (heck they just said immigrants on many outlets). If you actually listened to a few seconds before and after the clip it was incredibly obvious the conversation was about MS-13. But so many outlets (and congress critters) ran with the cut-down version, even though their editorial departments knew it was BS. Some later retracted, others doubled down and literally defended MS-13. Either way, most viewers don't pay attention to retractions (especially if you don't do it up-front by the same anchors on the same shows) and the media knows it. The whole thing was quite impressive.

 

[mihen]

List of countries that detain people who enter illegally:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_detention
This doesn't include countries that just shoot them.

 

[canadianvice]

List of countries that detain people who enter illegally:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_detention
This doesn't include countries that just shoot them.

I believe the source of the conflict is not the detention of illegals (certainly, and strangely, controversial, of course, but I don't think it's the crux of the recent surge in concern), but rather, the manner in which it is being done that has recently come to the fore of the news.

I have no problem with detaining and *promptly* deporting them to their countries of origin; I will admit certain difficulties having children separated from parents, no matter how temporary the process. I haven't a high opinion of bureaucrats, and I would not be surprised if that separation ends up being slightly more permanent than expected. Either way, I see no harm in letting the families stay together in detention, provided the facilities are not just full of violent thugs.

 

[guruofbarbeque]

There is nothing ethical about what is being touted as ethics now days lie cheat and steal all you want even go as far as to kill people , but never admit that you could have made a mistake because that's not ethical

 

[husker]

1) Child Protective Services routinely separates American children from the their parents for lots and lots and lots of reasons. Trying to frame this practice as suddenly unethical simply to attack your political opponents is pathetic.

2) There is a procedure for accepting asylum seekers which was ignored by the parents of these children, thus causing this problem in the first place.

3) Stop calling them immigrants. Immigrant status is only reached after legal thresholds have been met, which these parents ignored. Until then they are "illegal aliens" and you should be glad that the government is trying to track them in a database.

 

[ubercake]

When parents are jailed for drug offenses, they are separated from their children. When parents are jailed for stealing cars, they are separated from their children. When parents are jailed for murdering people, they are separated from their children. When parents are jailed for tax evasion, they are separated from their children... The list of crimes goes on and on...

When I go to another country and break any of their laws, I would expect to be punished accordingly.

 

[Pedasc]

When parents are jailed for drug offenses, they are separated from their children. When parents are jailed for stealing cars, they are separated from their children. When parents are jailed for murdering people, they are separated from their children. When parents are jailed for tax evasion, they are separated from their children... The list of crimes goes on and on...

When I go to another country and break any of their laws, I would expect to be punished accordingly.

I am not saying that none of the blame falls on the parent but most of these people have actually already crossed a number of international borders without issue and this wouldn't have happened while crossing any other border of a major country. There are lots of crimes that you don't get your children taken away for and illegally crossing into the US was actually one of them until recently. I can see how these people could reasonably expect that if caught that they would be kept with their children. Besides Trump has overturned this now and allows the parents to be detained with the children and for all his faults he is not one to cave to pressure.

It really looks like they didn't expect this to happen at this scale, used it to political advantage when it did, then overturned it when the point was made.

 

[jimmysmitty]

When parents are jailed for drug offenses, they are separated from their children. When parents are jailed for stealing cars, they are separated from their children. When parents are jailed for murdering people, they are separated from their children. When parents are jailed for tax evasion, they are separated from their children... The list of crimes goes on and on...

When I go to another country and break any of their laws, I would expect to be punished accordingly.

I am not saying that none of the blame falls on the parent but most of these people have actually already crossed a number of international borders without issue and this wouldn't have happened while crossing any other border of a major country. There are lots of crimes that you don't get your children taken away for and illegally crossing into the US was actually one of them until recently. I can see how these people could reasonably expect that if caught that they would be kept with their children. Besides Trump has overturned this now and allows the parents to be detained with the children and for all his faults he is not one to cave to pressure.

It really looks like they didn't expect this to happen at this scale, used it to political advantage when it did, then overturned it when the point was made.

The law has been on the books for a while however if it was being enforced is the question. From what has been said no one knows as there is no data to back up a yes or no answer.

The law specifically states that when they have been detained that they be put into a facility to await processing. The issue with placing them together is that children are not supposed to be put into detention centers for adults. Honestly I agree with that because there are a lot of possible issues that could happen.

Yes the rule is mainly for criminals but technically crossing into the US illegally is a crime.

And since when do we look to what other countries do as an example of what to do? A lot of those other countries that don't detain and separate also have vastly corrupt politicians and law enforcement (well beyond the US). That could easily attribute to why they were crossing illegally and not being detained. My girlfriend told me that in her home country (Eastern Europe area) you pretty much pay the cop when you get pulled over. Even if you didn't break any laws. Most people also paid to get their drivers license.

 

[canadianvice]

Most of the crimes being listed are sort of strawmen. You take children from druggies because it's almost inevitable they are not cared for or being subjected to violent conditions. A similar rationale goes for most of the other examples people have given - the children are actively under threat or subject to harm in the form of neglect or violence.

Again, I'm not arguing against detention, but illegal attempts to enter the country are not really comparable. There isn't a compelling case to be made for separation, since, speaking generally it's a victimless crime that is benign. I'm not really sure how to qualify that in words properly, my point is just that it's an order of magnitude less than druggies and such and so I don't feel the rationale for removing children in those cases is nearly as applicable.

It's important to keep perspective.

 

[Pedasc]

And since when do we look to what other countries do as an example of what to do? A lot of those other countries that don't detain and separate also have vastly corrupt politicians and law enforcement (well beyond the US). That could easily attribute to why they were crossing illegally and not being detained. My girlfriend told me that in her home country (Eastern Europe area) you pretty much pay the cop when you get pulled over. Even if you didn't break any laws. Most people also paid to get their drivers license.

And a lot of first world countries without institutionalized low level corruption do not detain and separate. My comments were to illustrate how someone could reasonably cross the border with their children and not expect this to happen to illustrate why thousands of people decided to do this. I don't condone it and I think it is stupid but I found equating this to grand theft auto or murder the same as equating the detention centres to concentration camps or a gulag. It was a little ridiculous.

Oh and although it wasn't actually my point, looking to other sensible countries and emulating some of their better practices is a good idea.

 

[jimmysmitty]

And since when do we look to what other countries do as an example of what to do? A lot of those other countries that don't detain and separate also have vastly corrupt politicians and law enforcement (well beyond the US). That could easily attribute to why they were crossing illegally and not being detained. My girlfriend told me that in her home country (Eastern Europe area) you pretty much pay the cop when you get pulled over. Even if you didn't break any laws. Most people also paid to get their drivers license.

And a lot of first world countries without institutionalized low level corruption do not detain and separate. My comments were to illustrate how someone could reasonably cross the border with their children and not expect this to happen to illustrate why thousands of people decided to do this. I don't condone it and I think it is stupid but I found equating this to grand theft auto or murder the same as equating the detention centres to concentration camps or a gulag. It was a little ridiculous.

Oh and although it wasn't actually my point, looking to other sensible countries and emulating some of their better practices is a good idea.

Problem is the majority of countries between the US and where these people are coming from have corruption and likely get paid off.

The other side is that these people know the risks when crossing into the US illegally. I am all for them opening family detention centers and never separating another kid from whomever they are with. However the next thing will be people crying that some kid got attacked/molested because they were not given separate housing or some frivolous crap. I personally say if they are caught illegally crossing ship em back the next day. No reason to waste tax payers money on this.

 

[Pedasc]

And since when do we look to what other countries do as an example of what to do? A lot of those other countries that don't detain and separate also have vastly corrupt politicians and law enforcement (well beyond the US). That could easily attribute to why they were crossing illegally and not being detained. My girlfriend told me that in her home country (Eastern Europe area) you pretty much pay the cop when you get pulled over. Even if you didn't break any laws. Most people also paid to get their drivers license.

And a lot of first world countries without institutionalized low level corruption do not detain and separate. My comments were to illustrate how someone could reasonably cross the border with their children and not expect this to happen to illustrate why thousands of people decided to do this. I don't condone it and I think it is stupid but I found equating this to grand theft auto or murder the same as equating the detention centres to concentration camps or a gulag. It was a little ridiculous.

Oh and although it wasn't actually my point, looking to other sensible countries and emulating some of their better practices is a good idea.

Problem is the majority of countries between the US and where these people are coming from have corruption and likely get paid off.

The other side is that these people know the risks when crossing into the US illegally. I am all for them opening family detention centers and never separating another kid from whomever they are with. However the next thing will be people crying that some kid got attacked/molested because they were not given separate housing or some frivolous crap. I personally say if they are caught illegally crossing ship em back the next day. No reason to waste tax payers money on this.

That’s the reason for Trump wanting to make Mexico a ‘safe third country’ isn’t it? So they can release people to Mexico.

I’m not his biggest fan but that seems sensible to me.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Making Mexico safe would be hard without serious military intervention. They would have to root out almost their entire political system but first they would have to dismantle all the gangs. It always gets me with how unconcerned the Mexican President is with his own people fleeing his country to go to the US.

Of course any non Mexican immigrants he cares even less about and would prefer to continue to the US so as to not support them but still its odd. I would think a country would pride itself in being able to keep people there because they have a good life and are happy.

 

[alextheblue]

Making Mexico safe would be hard without serious military intervention. They would have to root out almost their entire political system but first they would have to dismantle all the gangs. It always gets me with how unconcerned the Mexican President is with his own people fleeing his country to go to the US.

Of course any non Mexican immigrants he cares even less about and would prefer to continue to the US so as to not support them but still its odd. I would think a country would pride itself in being able to keep people there because they have a good life and are happy.

Unconcerned doesn't even cover it. Mexican politicians (including now a prominent presidential candidate) desire their people leave for the US. Why? Most of the people heading to the US aren't exactly well-heeled. The Mexican elites WANT their poor to go to America. They don't want em. If they send money back home and continue to vote in Mexican elections for More of the Same™, all the better.

 

[mihen]

The main reason for detainment which includes asylum seekers is to make sure the person is not a terrorist.

 

[WHAMMO]

Of course there will be 'terrorist attacks' stopped by facial recognition, how do you think these companies generate business for themselves? Problem >reaction > solution the Hegelian dialectic.