EVGA Addresses GeForce GTX 1080 FTW PWM Temperature Problems

[Guest]

EVGA announced plans to address temperature problems with GeForce GTX 1080/1070 FTW products using its ACX 3.0 cooling solution.

EVGA Addresses GeForce GTX 1080 FTW PWM Temperature Problems : Read more

 

[oczdude8]

Pretty bummed with my 1080ftw. First, it had the black screening during games which was a known issue, and now this. Granted I know its not really an issue, especially since I want to watercool it soon, but it leaves a bad taste in your mouth after spending $1k. Combined with pretty loud coil whine, I wouldn't really recommend it to anyone.

Its too bad because it performs so good and EVGA customer support has been pretty good so far though....

 

[ssdpro]

Odd title for this piece, considering it is just about every EVGA 1080, 1070,and even 1060 product except the FE cards. Full chart here: http://forums.evga.com/download.axd?file=0;2573491&where=&f=Update.jpg

 

[Jeff Fx]

> found both times that the "temperature of PWM and memory is within the spec tolerance" and "is working as originally designed with no issues."

Maybe they tested it with perfect case-ventilation and a single video card. The real world isn't like that, and a well-designed card would shut down rather than burning up if it gets too hot.

Cranking up the fans might be a really bad substitute for proper heat-sinks and cooling.

 

[Jeff Fx]

Pretty bummed with my 1080ftw. First, it had the black screening during games which was a known issue, and now this. Granted I know its not really an issue, especially since I want to watercool it soon, but it leaves a bad taste in your mouth after spending $1k. Combined with pretty loud coil whine, I wouldn't really recommend it to anyone.

Its too bad because it performs so good and EVGA customer support has been pretty good so far though....

My 1080 Strix has now crashed a couple of times when in overclock mode, which is also pretty disappointing. We pay a price in stability when we buy cutting-edge products. I may water-cool as well, but I'm a little shy about that after having a motherboard destroyed when a hose developed a slow leak years ago.

 

[redgarl]

That damn thing EXPLODED on me... not even a joke. Never again...!

 

[Jeff Fx]

That damn thing EXPLODED on me... not even a joke. Never again...!

Isn't that the coolest way for electronics to self-destruct as long as they're not near your body?

 

[metathias]

Alot of people gave the FE a hard time when it released first, Saying it was a poor design, But i've always felt just the opposite. The vast majority of 3rd party boards next to the water hybrids are using axial fans for their cooling system. I've learned the hard many times, and in many disparate fields that axial fans are fundamentally prone to breakdown. It has to do with the perpendicular application of forces against the axle and subsequent bearing contact. I know this seems kind of beside the point to subject of the article, But effectively if you cant design a cooling system using reliable fan types, Your probably not a good enough engineer to design the heatsinks, VRMs, And other extraneous hardware either. IE there is a reason for NVIDIAs design decisions, And i guarantee you it goes much deeper than these 3rd parties are willing to let on.

 

[jdlech]

EVGA says the higher temperatures won't harm the cards. This is really quite amusing. I've seen pictures with a hole burned right through the card. How is that not harmed?
I have a sneaking suspicion that the fan speed adjustment might not be enough in many situations. You may have to dial back the cards - which defeats the purpose of paying all those big bucks. Wouldn't want to be in EVGAs shoes the next 12 months or so.

 

[LoreeSelmer]

My experience with thermal solutions has been as an IC developer and user, basically using theta_JC and theta_CA (thermal resistance from IC junction-to-case and cooling solution case-to-ambient) and worst case power dissipation to determine what kind of maximum ambient temperature can be tolerated to hold junction temperature below a maximum specified level.

That said, I am new to overclocking and related cooling solutions. I understand the square law relationship for power dissipation wrt. clock frequency and wrt. supply voltage. As I contemplate a new build and look at various cooling solutions, I can't help but notice there is nothing defining thermal resistance in the cooler specs. I understand it typically depends on PWM-controlled fan speed, but it seems that a graph could be provided defining thermal resistance from IC case to enclosure ambient wrt. fan speed from 0 to 100% PWM.

Without a thermal resistance number there is some guesswork, Kentucky windage, whatever you want to call it, in your choice of cooling solution. Even if you know your maximum room and enclosure internal temperatures, without the thermal resistance of the cooling solution you can't analytically predict what the IC temperature will be in a prolonged high power state.

I'm guessing that experienced builders and overclockers rely on their feel for acceptable room temperature and case air flow, and for the performance of known cooling solutions. Less experienced folks have a trial and error process on their hands, which as noted above can get pretty exciting if it gets away from you!

Is that pretty much how this exercise goes, or is there a first-order engineering solution that, for a given cooler and specs from manufacturer X, allows you to ballpark a maximum IC temperature from enclosure air temperature?

 

[bit_user]

First, I want to say I'm disheartened to learn of these problems. I love my GTX 980 Ti FTW, and was contemplating getting a GTX 1070 FTW for a second computer. I hope EVGA improves their VRM cooling in ACX 4.0.

I'm guessing that experienced builders and overclockers rely on their feel for acceptable room temperature and case air flow, and for the performance of known cooling solutions. Less experienced folks have a trial and error process on their hands, which as noted above can get pretty exciting if it gets away from you!

Is that pretty much how this exercise goes, or is there a first-order engineering solution that, for a given cooler and specs from manufacturer X, allows you to ballpark a maximum IC temperature from enclosure air temperature?

Well, people look at testbench measurements of different heatsinks w/ various CPUs (like what you'll find in the reviews section of this site). Most of the better measurements will indicate temperatures relative to ambient. Some will post absolute temps and state ambient. I've almost never seen anyone try to control for humidity.

So, you can either use that experimental data to guide your selection, or you can read reviews on amazon/newegg and read people's experiences in forums on this site & others. Either way, it's more an exercise of replicating what someone else has claimed to work. That, or just trying something that seems adequate and being willing to upgrade if it's not.

It really comes down to your goals. A small overclock is easily achievable on a big air cooler. For larger overclocks, you're looking at water cooling, delid, lapping, and even mounting it directly atop the die.

Good luck. You'll find much better info in here: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-29.html

 

[wifiburger]

did they just admit that it took web complains / reports from user for them to start testing their cards ? what a shit industry no wonder not many people trust top end pc components

 

[redgarl]

That damn thing EXPLODED on me... not even a joke. Never again...!

Isn't that the coolest way for electronics to self-destruct as long as they're not near your body?

Well, the explosion took a brand new EVGA Power Supply and a brand new motherboard. Of course Asrock sent me a refurbished mobo... because they are awesome!

How can this happens with a 1000$ CAD card...?

 

[GR1M_ZA]

And people lost their sh*t about the whole AMD RX480 power issue.....this is a lot worse in my opinion.

 

[Guest]

I got my 1080 FTW in August and this is just plain bullshit, dozen cases got media attention. I am not sure in what f. enclosure they have running these cards to run this hot but my temperature is nowhere near this.

 

[gggplaya]

> found both times that the "temperature of PWM and memory is within the spec tolerance" and "is working as originally designed with no issues."

Maybe they tested it with perfect case-ventilation and a single video card. The real world isn't like that, and a well-designed card would shut down rather than burning up if it gets too hot.

Cranking up the fans might be a really bad substitute for proper heat-sinks and cooling.

Yea, 2 problems with average builders. First, some don't know anything about airflow, they just throw a bunch of fans on a case and expect things to just do their job. They don't try and flow the air in any particular direction.

Second, some gamers live in small dorm rooms or small apartment rooms. So the computer acts like a heater and can rise temperatures up past the normal 70F/21C. Cooling with higher ambient temps makes it less effective.

EVGA probably tested in a large office of lab area, in a properly assembled case.

 

[redgarl]

And people lost their sh*t about the whole AMD RX480 power issue.....this is a lot worse in my opinion.

> found both times that the "temperature of PWM and memory is within the spec tolerance" and "is working as originally designed with no issues."

Maybe they tested it with perfect case-ventilation and a single video card. The real world isn't like that, and a well-designed card would shut down rather than burning up if it gets too hot.

Cranking up the fans might be a really bad substitute for proper heat-sinks and cooling.

Yea, 2 problems with average builders. First, some don't know anything about airflow, they just throw a bunch of fans on a case and expect things to just do their job. They don't try and flow the air in any particular direction.

Second, some gamers live in small dorm rooms or small apartment rooms. So the computer acts like a heater and can rise temperatures up past the normal 70F/21C. Cooling with higher ambient temps makes it less effective.

EVGA probably tested in a large office of lab area, in a properly assembled case.

It's no rocket science to provoke an airflow inside of your case. From front to back and down to up. Also cables kill airflow. Cable management is a must. What I did with my XL is using the 5.25 inch bay for putting my drives and removed the disk cage for optimal airflow. This cost me a big 10$ of brackets. WHo the hell is having 8 HDD anyway.

 

[redgarl]

I got my 1080 FTW in August and this is just plain bullshit, dozen cases got media attention. I am not sure in what f. enclosure they have running these cards to run this hot but my temperature is nowhere near this.

Still, that card is the highest rated 1080 on newegg. It's disgusting. It was my first EVGA purchase and it will be the last one. I am waiting for Vega and I am switching bandwagon. No more Nvidia after this. It's a good card, but nowhere what was promised.

 

[gggplaya]

> found both times that the "temperature of PWM and memory is within the spec tolerance" and "is working as originally designed with no issues."

Maybe they tested it with perfect case-ventilation and a single video card. The real world isn't like that, and a well-designed card would shut down rather than burning up if it gets too hot.

Cranking up the fans might be a really bad substitute for proper heat-sinks and cooling.

Yea, 2 problems with average builders. First, some don't know anything about airflow, they just throw a bunch of fans on a case and expect things to just do their job. They don't try and flow the air in any particular direction.

Second, some gamers live in small dorm rooms or small apartment rooms. So the computer acts like a heater and can rise temperatures up past the normal 70F/21C. Cooling with higher ambient temps makes it less effective.

EVGA probably tested in a large office of lab area, in a properly assembled case.

It's no rocket science to provoke an airflow inside of your case. From front to back and down to up. Also cables kill airflow. Cable management is a must. What I did with my XL is using the 5.25 inch bay for putting my drives and removed the disk cage for optimal airflow. This cost me a big 10$ of brackets. WHo the hell is having 8 HDD anyway.

I agree, but the problem is, many people don't take any time to think about it. They just slap fans on it and expect it to work. I've seen this happen all the time, like at a friend apartment, they had all their fans blowing in, and didn't remove the noise insulation on their extra grills. So the air can only really flow out of the water cooling line holes and any other little crevaces. I noticed the fans were unusually louder than necessary which is why i opened the side and showed them. I ended up moving one of the fans up top to flow out and the rear fan to blow out as well. All of the fans then quieted down and i'm sure the case was running much cooler.

 

[LoreeSelmer]

First, I want to say I'm disheartened to learn of these problems. I love my GTX 980 Ti FTW, and was contemplating getting a GTX 1070 FTW for a second computer. I hope EVGA improves their VRM cooling in ACX 4.0.

I'm guessing that experienced builders and overclockers rely on their feel for acceptable room temperature and case air flow, and for the performance of known cooling solutions. Less experienced folks have a trial and error process on their hands, which as noted above can get pretty exciting if it gets away from you!

Is that pretty much how this exercise goes, or is there a first-order engineering solution that, for a given cooler and specs from manufacturer X, allows you to ballpark a maximum IC temperature from enclosure air temperature?

Well, people look at testbench measurements of different heatsinks w/ various CPUs (like what you'll find in the reviews section of this site). Most of the better measurements will indicate temperatures relative to ambient. Some will post absolute temps and state ambient. I've almost never seen anyone try to control for humidity.

So, you can either use that experimental data to guide your selection, or you can read reviews on amazon/newegg and read people's experiences in forums on this site & others. Either way, it's more an exercise of replicating what someone else has claimed to work. That, or just trying something that seems adequate and being willing to upgrade if it's not.

It really comes down to your goals. A small overclock is easily achievable on a big air cooler. For larger overclocks, you're looking at water cooling, delid, lapping, and even mounting it directly atop the die.

Good luck. You'll find much better info in here: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/forum-29.html

Thanks, I really appreciate your comments and this is path I've been following. Between Tom's and various other overclocker and tweaker sites who've done a nice job benchmarking cooling solutions and presenting results, I am starting to get a pretty good handle on the exercise and solution space.

That said, I still find it disappointing that the companies selling coolers have apparently all agreed to not publish the one number that would define how effective their products are at transferring heat.

 

[Achaios]

I am very disappointed with EVGA. I thought they were serious and made quality crads, but apparently that is not so, as they produced lesser quality cards by omitting the thermal pads to increase their profits.

It follows that I will not buy any EVGA cards of the present generation and will be extremelyc autious before I ever buy anything from them in the future too

@Tom's Hardware: Please make an English translation of the original German article quickly available.

 

[oczdude8]

Has anyone else other then Toms DE confirmed this issue?

 

[bit_user]

That said, I still find it disappointing that the companies selling coolers have apparently all agreed to not publish the one number that would define how effective their products are at transferring heat.

It would be a hard thing to do, IMO. Given variations in manufacturing, installation, and differences in airflow, it could be difficult for customers to replicate their specs. This would naturally draw a lot of criticism from customers that brand XYZ is inflating their numbers.

Also, it would incentivize companies to build solutions that get big numbers in the standard test setup, but aren't necessarily optimized for real-world usage.

 

[George Phillips]

ACX 3.0 cooling solution always looks incomplete to me because of their bad VRM cooling. When VRM is not cooled properly, the card will die a lot early! I will never buy any of these EVGA cards again. Many of the bad cards could be patched with some cheap cooling and then resold or reissued for exchanges. Very bad.

 

[redgarl]

ACX 3.0 cooling solution always looks incomplete to me because of their bad VRM cooling. When VRM is not cooled properly, the card will die a lot early! I will never buy any of these EVGA cards again. Many of the bad cards could be patched with some cheap cooling and then resold or reissued for exchanges. Very bad.

One died in 45 days for me and newegg obviously backed off with their 30 days policy to provide me with any coverage. However I am having a prenium mastercard and I have some benefits. I will need to call them tomorrow to know if they can do anything about it.