Experimental radiator \build log!!!

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toolmaker_03

toolmaker_03

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Mar 26, 2012
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well here are the radiators, my problem is the configuration of them, simply too many possibilities, so if you could find the time to give your opinions, I would really appreciate it.
I also need advice on a type of shroud for the radiators, the purpose is to inshore good air flow through the radiator.
and lastly how to attach the fans to the radiators?



all advice is welcome and thank you

 
Solution
rubix_1011
I don't use a flow meter, never have, never will.

Having a picture of a flow meter does nothing to support a finding, especially when you cannot be 100% conclusive that it is reading correctly or you are accurately converting what is being reported. Does the flow meter registering on the pump without restriction show a flow rate that is close to the rated flow of the pump with your conversion?

If so, great, but if so, you're still running lower than 1.0 gpm on your loop, meaning your delta-T MUST be offset to calculate your cooling potential. Meaning - you have to over-rad to accomplish the same cooling ability that you could achieve with a higher flow. Adding cost of 3x 360 radiators ($60, example) starts to get expensive...
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something notable when I built this system I positioned my fans so that the two front and the side fan are blowing into the case the PS also draws air into the case the only exhaust fans are the two rear fans they are not filtered. now I did filter all the intake fans to cut down on dust in the case my hope, was that by doing this I would create a little positive pressure in the case, to also help cut down on dust in the case. this did not happen though, there is still enough draw on the two rear fans to handle all 4 intake fans filtered and still create a vacuum inside the case, this is drawing in dust from every crease in the case. but I wont do any thing about this though, as the internal case temps are great, as a result of this. I did try to filter the rear fans, and yes it did create a positive pressure in the case. now here is the down side to a positive pressure system in the case, case temps went up a good 7C on average. so that sucks but I learned that a little vacuum means that there should be cool air in the case at all times. as with a positive pressure system in the case, means that there is a little heated air sitting in the case all the time, and that really sucks, more than the dust.
 
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ok so when I first started water cooling just having the hardware water cooled made a big difference but today that is not the case, today you have to build the system large enough to cool the hardware you have and you need to know how that hardware works so you can design the loop in a way that everything stays cool.
radiators are a good example of this, my swifttech radiators, because they are a low FPI and are only 35mm thick, they work just as well with 3 fans on, as they do with 6 fans on. in contrast the monstra radiator, is a low FPI radiator, that is 80mm thick, and there is a big difference between 3 fans running and 6 fans running on that radiator, even the flow rates through the radiators are different the swifttech radiators can flow at up to 4LPM while the monstra can flow at up to 7LPM.
even the CPU and GPU blocks today, can have a lot of differences between them, some blocks have a high flow design, while others have a restricted flow design. with all these options one must really look at what they are building and why products have been designed the way they are.
 
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You're seeing why determining your Delta-T is important in watercooling. Cooling potential is really limited by what you implement, not by what you theoretically can achieve if you pick some parts but not all associated with reviews/tests. Example- buying XYZ radiator that reviewed well with ABC fans, but you've chosen XYZ radiator with QRS fans, instead. This means your airflow on your radiator might be substantially different. Similarly, a radiator choice is made based on XZY radiator tested with 123 pump for certain results but your flow rate is different by using 345 pump and a lower flow rate.

You really have to be aware of what your A) coolant flow rate is; and B) understanding what your loop components have the potential to do together based on what you've purchased to determine an accurate delta-T and cooling estimate.
 
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let me give you a example of what I mean my system flows at 6.6LPM, but the stock bitspower reservoir can only flow at 5LPM, so I had to replace the vortex stop in the bottom of the reservoir, with a phobia bubbler, to get the flow through it up to 7LPM.
if I was to place a flow meter at the start of each radiator it would read 2.2LPM but the radiator can flow at up to 4LPM
if I placed a flow meter at the start of each component it would read 2.2LPM but each one can flow at up to 3LPM
the total system flow is at 6.6LPM, I made the 3 way parallel setup to reduce the total system pressure, and by doing so I also reduce the stress on the pumps, in the hope that the pumps will last longer.
 
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just for a refresher I have tested the flow of all my water cooling components with the only the flow meter component and pump.
for example a pump by itself on a loop with a flow meter can flow at 8LPM (**edit 8.28LPM to be more exact**)
https://imageshack.com/i/mvtests1baseline008j
https://imageshack.com/i/5pmosfetblocktest003j
https://imageshack.com/i/5bgpuflowtest002j
https://imageshack.com/i/e3eachsidetest001j
https://imageshack.com/i/ngparallellinetest005j
https://imageshack.com/i/mvexflowrate001j
https://imageshack.com/i/0v8ocbj
https://imageshack.com/i/j5xfhlj
I had two different loops going at the same time to save time on testing. my point is this I needed to know this information to build the loop I have today, and get a idea about how the different types of hardware work.
what I found is this with my hardware I tried different flows through the system 1LPM per component, 2LPM per component, and 3LPM per component and at 1.7LPM to 2.5LPM I get the best cooling assuming I have enough radiators to handle the load and I do my water temps coming out of the radiators is 1C above the house temp at idol and 4C at load the water return temps just before the radiators are at idol, 2C above the house temps and 10C at load. so I thank that's good enough for me.

to give a understanding if I added 3 more 360mm radiators and another pump I could cut these numbers in half.
and the same can be said the other direction if I only had a 360mm and a 240mm radiator in the loop those numbers can be doubled.
 
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You have really low flowrate. A DDC pump is typically defined around 235 gal/hr or 900 l/hr. This works out to around ~15 l/min and you are running at a fraction of that at 1.5-2.0 l/min. Even if you are saying you're hitting 6.6 l/min, that's still almost 1/3 flow. How is it that your reservoir 'only flows at 5.0 l/min'? Also, how certain are you that your fan controller is actually measuring exactly what you think you're reporting? I think I recall reading how you believed this was the case, but how certain are you that your RPM reading on the controller of the pump speed is an accurate 1:1 of what your flow is?

Edit: I have that same fan controller.
 
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I fall into the simplistic category and that's why I like clear tubing, I can see the coolant flow hit the water block and come out the other side and that's good enough for me, flow is visually established.

No flow meters, or flow rate indicators, no Memory coolers, or HDD coolers, or Motherboard VR coolers, to add flow restriction, just the simple loop necessities, and all is well.
 
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ok so fans I went with corsair SP and AF fans for both my builds at half speed these fans are quite and that is all I need to keep the systems cool while searching online watching a movie and so on.
at full speed, with is only needed when gaming, I can not say that these fans are quite, but they do keep the system cool, so I cant complain, I have a headset on anyway, so I don't here them unless there is a quite spot in the game.
so yes I would recommend these fans for anyone water cooling.
 
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First of all, I don't appreciate the tone. I'm not trying to argue or cause problems here; I'm trying to help you figure out why your system is or isn't performing like you think it should be.

In short, reading RPM on a fan controller to pinpoint your pump speed doesn't mean you can calculate what your flow is unless you know the volume of water that is actually being pushed through your pump without restriction over the course of 60 seconds. Your pump can still run the same RPM and actually push less liquid if the restriction is high enough. Think of a car with a manual transmission: it is technically possible for the engine to run at a specific RPM but not go anywhere due to slippage of the clutch. Same goes for a fluid pump - it can consistently 'spin' without pushing as much fluid in a very restrictive environment as it could running the same RPM in a non-restrictive environment. Remember, water pumps are not traction-driven like a chain and sprocket.
 
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Fair enough.

ok I understand that BS number system yes the pump will produce 50PSI and under gravity driven conditions meaning a large reservoir above the pump and nothing connected to the outlet, yes, it would flow that much liquid.
But this is not real world conditions for a water loop, hello.
if you actually make a loop it is not going to move the water that fast anymore.
test it for yourself and you will see what I mean.
Click to expand...

What you don't understand is that I HAVE done this simply to test the flow of a loop, both with restriction and without, and I still stand firm with my statements. Your loop suffers from excess restriction, causing your flow rate to drop, causing your delta-T to suffer, causing you to have lesser cooling performance than you thought. I've seen the amount of fittings and connections you have in your build, and while running some of these in parallel instead of serial does help reduce restriction, it also lowers your flow rate.

Good luck. Sounds like you have it all handled.

Edit: for the record, what almost all delta graphs are baselined at: 1.0 gpm = 3.78 L/min. (1.5 gpm = 5.68 L/min). If you are running lower than this, your delta values are skewed and have to be accounted for due to the lower flow rate. Over-radding (like you suggest by adding the 360's) can make up for this, but at a greater cost than reducing restriction of your loop, or simply adding another pump either in serial, or as a dual-shared loop...or even dual loops.
 
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Just wondering, in what world is it necessary to have 136 fittings, or however many it was?
 
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I don't use a flow meter, never have, never will.

Having a picture of a flow meter does nothing to support a finding, especially when you cannot be 100% conclusive that it is reading correctly or you are accurately converting what is being reported. Does the flow meter registering on the pump without restriction show a flow rate that is close to the rated flow of the pump with your conversion?

If so, great, but if so, you're still running lower than 1.0 gpm on your loop, meaning your delta-T MUST be offset to calculate your cooling potential. Meaning - you have to over-rad to accomplish the same cooling ability that you could achieve with a higher flow. Adding cost of 3x 360 radiators ($60, example) starts to get expensive, especially when you start adding fans for them ($9 each?).

Fixing your flow issue by adding a pump or replumbing to have a more efficient loop would be cheaper and not require an elaborate loop setup.

 
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