F*** HDCP...

[dean7]

Exactly... The artists are the ones who suffer for it. Now the record execs sign small deals with pop-tarts as many call them and use studio magic to make it sellable and they get busted lip-syncing.

Well, now I think that PCs are helping level the playing field a bit. It's getting easier to make high-quality recordings in home studios and the like, and that's one of the reasons the record industry is in hot water. Previously, when the options were good recording (e.g. pop bands) or nasty sounding recordings (e.g. indie of the yesteryears) most people went for the good recordings, mistaking it for better music.

Now, indie bands are making it big, and it's kind of shaking up the whole industry. Record labels are trying to just sign all of the bands, but there seem to be more that are not willing to let record labels crush the life out of their CDs.

I am not a huge fan of Offspring, but their only OK CD was Smash (which was the best-selling independently recorded CD of it's time AFAIK). After they released that, they were bought up by Sony and we all know what happened to their subsequent releases (if I didn't really like Smash, I friggin' hate every other CD after that).

I remeber when I was young bands had a following and put on bigger and better produtions as the progressed, now they just sort of fade away after 3 CD's...

Yeah, I guess that's the difference between the Beatles and Chumbawumba . Most pop bands these days are nothing more than flashy BS that's popular for 30 days, then people can't stand the sound of it.

 

[ches111]

We are just now seeing HDCP as an answer because the MPAA is in the same boat as the RIAA was many years ago..

They thought the bandwidth would never be enough to download a movie (no way). Then they found that people were just doing the download overnight thing. Then the bit torrent thing via high speed internet (1mb/s or better)... Then came real high speed internet (5meg to even 10 meg down now).

Oops... We need to do something about this.

People are renting DVDs and copying them? Oh no....

The equation is simple.. Offer the music and video at better prices and in a convenient manner of distribution and people will buy.. Lets look at iTunes. Since its release (albeit tied to the iPod) it has been a great revenue maker.

I would much rather buy once rather than rent multiple times if I want to see something again.

The funny thing is if they had implemented this I think there would be MUCH MUCH less piracy. Who wants to steal something that they could buy on the cheap (only a few folks with real problems ).

Theft is going to happen. But reasonable, convenient offerings are always going to bring people back around.

 

[jaguarskx]

I mean seriously, if it's free and you have a fast connection you aren't going to think twice about downloading it to hear it. If you're paying $17 a CD or $10 on iTunes, you're going to think twice before buying it.

As a consumer I agree. I've downloaded some songs just to determine if the album is worth purchasing since there isn't a radio station in NYC that broadcasts black/death/thrash metal. If the music sucks then I won't buy the CD; either way I delete the downloaded songs. I prefer to encode my music to OGG files. FLAC would be better, but my iRiver HP140 doesn't support FLAC. MP3 just sucks especially when you encode classical music; all the background instruments just get mushed together. Too much detail is lost in my opinion.

From the media industry's perspective, I'm sure they would consider what I've done to be illegal, even if I did delete the mp3 files and eventually buy the CD (unless it sucks). I suppose DRM is a necessary evil for them to protect their revenues, but DRM is only going to deter the casual downloader. More determined people will find a way to crack DRM.

If there's a will, then there's a way.

 

[ches111]

[SOAPBOX] Most music these days is nothing more than "formula" or "canned" music.

Insert hot person, add somebody else's voice (maybe their own in a non-threatening/non talent song), release the heck out of it, pimp it everywhere, pay some other stars for endorsement and throw it out there to see if it floats. You know what floats right

Please see the Simpsons (no not Homer )

The real artists are discouraged/hidden from view because they will actually shed light on the recording industries poor quality crud they are trying to pass off as music.

A late night listen to MTV will more than confirm this.. The music/lyrics is almost identical. That is the part that kills me too, the music (not vocalist) is being hampered too. [/SOAPBOX]

 

[dean7]

Well, the problem is: they don't want to make a reasonable amount of money. They want to make an insane amount of money (e.g. that's why it costs them probably like $1-$2 to print CDs yet they charge %1000 of that).

They have basically had their golden days, and they can go down one of two paths...

1. Admit that technology has made the market for media more competitive, and start offering more competitive rates/technologies without DRM (seriously, how long have we been able to copy CDs? Why haven't they freaked out about that?)

2. Not admit that the industry has changed, and instead blame it on digital media. Sue as many people as they can to try to strong-arm everybody in to being afraid of downloading MP3s. Go on a downward spiral to bankruptcy, clawing at everybody around them all the while.

 

[ches111]

Reasonable $ amounts per song * a much greater number of legal downloads = boat loads of money. Just ask Apple.

forgot part of the equation:

Boat loads of money = Insane amounts of money

 

[dean7]

As a consumer I agree. I've downloaded some songs just to determine if the album is worth purchasing since there isn't a radio station in NYC that broadcasts black/death/thrash metal. If the music sucks then I won't buy the CD; either way I delete the downloaded songs. I prefer to encode my music to OGG files. FLAC would be better, but my iRiver HP140 doesn't support FLAC. MP3 just sucks especially when you encode classical music; all the background instruments just get mushed together. Too much detail is lost in my opinion.

BTW, I have Cowon iAUDIO X5 and love it... supports FLAC and I encode all my CDs I want to be mobile in FLAC. You should check 'em out when you go to upgrade to a new player (hopefully they will release a newer model with an interface that has more "cool" factor).

Once you start to hear exactly what MP3 compression does to your music, it just becomes easier and easier to spot (and yes, especially on something like classical music).

From the media industry's perspective, I'm sure they would consider what I've done to be illegal, even if I did delete the mp3 files and eventually buy the CD (unless it sucks). I suppose DRM is a necessary evil for them to protect their revenues, but DRM is only going to deter the casual downloader. More determined people will find a way to crack DRM.

If there's a will, then there's a way.

Yeah, I'm sure they wouldn't be pleased with you for downloading illegal content to demo the CDs even if you buy them later.

Yes, people might crack DRM, but most "pirates" are going to avoid DRM completely. Pirates don't try to crack a bunch of iTunes songs... they just download FLAC/MP3/OGG/Whatever and play it with Winamp, avoiding DRM completely.

 

[tech4808]

Yeah, the whole DRM thing is becoming a real pain in the @ss. With my media center hooked up to my Bell expressvu, I get errors now on some movie network channels (which I pay for) saying that I am not allowed to view this content on my computer!

So, now if I want to watch a specific movie I have to unplug the video cable from my bell receiver and plug directly into my t.v. (which is too much work, so it never happens).

I could see maybe having this with Pay Per View as they show current movies just released to DVD, but on the movie network it doesn't make sense as they only show movies that have been released for some time and have already made their money!

 

[dean7]

Reasonable $ amounts per song * a much greater number of legal downloads = boat loads of money. Just ask Apple.

forgot part of the equation:

Boat loads of money = Insane amounts of money

Yeah, it seems like it would be a no-brainer to me. If you opened up online music stores and offered FLAC w/ no DRM or something like that (which wouldn't really open them up to additional security risk because if I wanted to I could buy CD and rip it to FLAC easily), you would never have to worry about the physical media. You just set the website up, have your developers maintain/upgrade it, and let the profit roll in.

They obviously are trying to protect themselves from sending out a bunch of files that users can share with each other, but the reality of the situation is: it takes about 3 minutes for me to copy a CD. If I wanted to I could be burning tons of CDs for my friends and distributing them to whoever. So, I don't see where the perceived additional security threat is coming from.

 

[fonzy]

This is more then just piracy this is the beginning of the New World Order, the Government controlling everything.

People can call me a retard which maybe I am but when they start controlling what you put on your computer, going threw your computer without asking(which they can do now),putting RFID chips in your drivers license and all merchandise,passing laws that can have anyone arrested for even speaking up against the government(patriot act) and now the Draft possibly coming back (just on CNN).

To me the government is using terrorism and piracy to control our lives and that scares me,can someone remind me what freedom is again?

 

[ches111]

tech,

They don't care of the age... If they could sell for instance another 1 mill copies of Miracle on 34th Street over the next few months they will.

Just like they will re-release (as much as possible) the once popular videos in the new HD format/playback device of choice (BD or HD-DVD).

See if you were to record that old movie on TBS via TIVO and remove the commercials and play it back you may not buy the new...

Don't cha get it

 

[Anoobis]

A recent 2600 issue discussed these very same issues and the current MAKE issue covers the whole HDMI issue and has brought up a lot of the points that have been brought up here.

The interesting shocker (coming from 2600). The author suggested to continue to get your music from good ole audio CDs and use it in conjunction with open source formats (like the Ogg Vorbis format noted earlier) and hardware that supports it. DRM efforts on audio CDs have proven futile (in some cases, embarrassing). As long as people continue to buy them, music companies will make and sell them and hardware manufacturers have to support them.

Unfortunately if the RIAA and MPAA have their way it will get to the point that you'll have to buy a new piece of hardware whenever you buy a new music album or a movie.

 

[djgandy]

Totally agree. People who own pirated media won't neccesarily have bought it if pirated versions weren't available.
With films, if i think they are worth seeing, i'll go see it at the cinema.
If don't go and see it at the cinema because i don't think its worth the £5, why would i want to spend £15 for it on dvd?

If prices were cheaper, people would buy a lot more too.
CD singles are a complete rip off. £3+ a go. That's why 'pop' music doesn't sell as much anymore and the charts are a complete load of rubbish. Making music is also a lot easier and production is available to anyone with a pc nowadays.
If you like music this is a good thing. If you are some over paid exec for a massive company it's a bad thing. People aren't buying your over priced processed garbage and your sales are going down.

If it was ~£2 a single a lot more people would buy them.
Same goes for albums too, and the theory can be applied to films as well.

For me to spend £15 on a dvd, it would have to be a something really amazing. I can't think of anything i'd spend £15 on tbh.
If films were £5 a pop i'd have a lot more in my collection.

God bless the internet though. Not even the largest corporations in the world combined will ever stop it and piracy. You think they would have realised this by now. I wonder how much money is spent on "stopping" piracy each year

 

[Gneisenau]

I haven't purchased an album in ages because of DRM and RIAA's customer treatment. Right now the music industry and movie industry could completely collapse and I wouldn't care one bit. I figure what rises out of the ashes will be a lot better than RIAA/MPAA.

I will not buy anything with HDCP on it. I have nothing to play it on and don't plan on upgrading anytime soon so I can.

Sony is on my S@!t list and will be for some time to come. I refuse to buy a PS3 because of their attitude. Maybe if they get their act together, I'll look at a PS4.

I refuse to use steam. I want to be able to play games when I want to, not just when I'm close to a internet connection.

I knew we were in trouble with MS started that DAMNED online activation. We should have burned all those CDs and the factories they came out of.

The people who run these companies are the same as ever. When business tanks, it's not their fault. It's those evil <fill in the blank> making our profits drop. They lie to their shareholders/bosses to protect their income. Thus, the lie spreads all over the industry as each CEO having the same problem takes up the same cry.

The heads of the vairous media companies will never admit they are loosing money because they suck at their jobs or the fact that they are expected to increase profits every year and have run out of ideas on how to do it. If they did admit the truth they have to forego that new beach front home.

I see little help coming from our law makers (May every last one of them burn in hell...) anytime soon, so I figure the only way to hurt them is to cost them money. I wish more people felt the same way. It seems the vast majority just have to have that new song/movie and won't pass on it to make a statement.

When people as a rule stop buying this crap, you can bet the industry change things in a big hurry. If they don't they will disappear and we will most likely be better off with what happens after.

 

[dean7]

This is more then just piracy this is the beginning of the New World Order, the Government controlling everything.

People can call me a retard which maybe I am but when they start controlling what you put on your computer, going threw your computer without asking(which they can do now),putting RFID chips in your drivers license and all merchandise,passing laws that can have anyone arrested for even speaking up against the government(patriot act) and now the Draft possibly coming back (just on CNN).

To me the government is using terrorism and piracy to control our lives and that scares me,can someone remind me what freedom is again?

Lol, man, don't get me started on this line of thought... I'll just get depressed, read Brave New World, and collapse for a week or something .

But, yes, it's a bit scary. I don't like the idea of people searching my HDD whenever they feel like it. I am 100% legit, and it still scares me.

 

[gm0n3y]

The whole hardware aspect of HDCP actually doesn't piss me off that much. I am sure that by the time it becomes prevalent (3-5 years?), we will have affordable hardware options.

The thing that really pisses me off is that if I buy an mp3 (for example), I want to be able to do WHATEVER I WANT with it. If I want to copy it to a CD, onto an mp3 player, my cellphone, my media center PC, and create my own remix of the song, I should be able to do this. I have paid for the music, as long as I don't make money off it, I should have no restrictions.

The reason that the hardware does kinda piss me off is because if I buy some media, I want it to work forever, not just on the one device I bought it for. Also, if they expect us to re-purchase our media for every player / format, it should be 1/10th the cost.

 

[dean7]

True enough... but you're not purchasing rights to the media itself, you're pretty much purchasing the media in whatever format you're buying it in. Which is why I like FLAC because you can always decompress it to WAV and you have original CD audio.

 

[theaxemaster]

Reasonable $ amounts per song * a much greater number of legal downloads = boat loads of money. Just ask Apple.

forgot part of the equation:

Boat loads of money = Insane amounts of money

Yeah, it seems like it would be a no-brainer to me. If you opened up online music stores and offered FLAC w/ no DRM or something like that (which wouldn't really open them up to additional security risk because if I wanted to I could buy CD and rip it to FLAC easily), you would never have to worry about the physical media. You just set the website up, have your developers maintain/upgrade it, and let the profit roll in.

Already done, and they call it allofmp3.com Fan-fucking-tastic site. The problem? RIAA pressure (and the us gov't in turn) to shut them down or they'll keep Russia out of the WTO.

Why its so great? reasonable rates (probably too low, but I consider anything over .50 per track too much for a lossy encoded format). You get to PICK your encoding (FLAC, OGG, WMA (ugh), AAC, MP3). NO DRM i.e. tracks play in any player that supports the format.

I haven't bought a CD since high school (~6 years) because I can't preview the whole disc before I buy it. I refuse to commit the $12-17 without trying it first.

Now, for HDCP. Yeah, it blows. I'm going to wait for a region-free, f*ck-the-mpaa drive I can drop into my HTPC and roll with it. That or find a fix for it when it comes.

 

[dean7]

Already done, and they call it allofmp3.com Fan-******-tastic site. The problem? RIAA pressure (and the us gov't in turn) to shut them down or they'll keep Russia out of the WTO.

Why its so great? reasonable rates (probably too low, but I consider anything over .50 per track too much for a lossy encoded format). You get to PICK your encoding (FLAC, OGG, WMA (ugh), AAC, MP3). NO DRM i.e. tracks play in any player that supports the format.

I haven't bought a CD since high school (~6 years) because I can't preview the whole disc before I buy it. I refuse to commit the $12-17 without trying it first.

Now, for HDCP. Yeah, it blows. I'm going to wait for a region-free, f*ck-the-mpaa drive I can drop into my HTPC and roll with it. That or find a fix for it when it comes.

Yeah, I've used AllOfMP3... it rules. Why doesn't somebody like Sony get the clue and just say "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em". If Sony had something like AllOfMP3, I'd be there in a heartbeat . (that is, if Sony's around long enough to do something like that after recent battery/blu-ray/rootkit lameness).

 

[tech4808]

Oh I get it... I just don't F****in like it :twisted:

The whole idea of DRM is a great idea... but that is where it should stay, as an idea!

In reality, it probably costs more money to incorporate the DRM into media then what the loss would be if it wasn't in place.

 

[dean7]

I think we have already established that reality has nothing to do with it! :lol:

 

[gm0n3y]

So now we just need to start a www.tomsforumzdrmfreemusic.com...

 

[dean7]

Catchy... is that taken?

We can do reviews of all of the DRM technologies and the level of annoyance associated with each of them, as well as the quality loss! :lol:

 

[s4fun]

To get started...

HDMI stands for

[H]ollywood
[D]ear
[M]ay


And when you are ready get on your knees and to suck it up...
HDCP stands for

[H]ollywood
[D]ear
[C]*ck
[P]lease

I sure I hope I don't get banned for this.

 

[dean7]

You have worse things to worry about than getting banned. Some RIAA thug is probably reading this right now and tracking you down from your IP Address.