BigMac
Splendid
- Nov 25, 2003
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Thanks for bothering to reply.
The issue is not a state that tells you what to do, and when and where to do it. All states do this, and it's called the law which states what your rights and obligations are towards society. Totalitarian regimes overstress the obligations and disregards rights, democracies tend to focus more on rights. The Nazi regime was totalitarian, but there are many more and that is not the essence of national socialism. It was based on discrimination, the gloryfying of the arian race and the discrimination of other groups of humans to the extent of planning and executing complete extermination of these groups.
This as opposed to the modern democratic states (as led the way by France, instigated by the french revolution and soon after the declaration of independence of the US) which adhere to the basic assumptions that all individuals have equal rights and obligations.
I hope this illustrates why the correlation you seem to see, does not hold at all.
The freedom of speech is just as dear to me as it seems to be to you, and that freedom of speech is not limited to America, it extends to all free democracies in the world.
BigMac
<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>
I'm not an overzealous politically correct person (imo, but I leave it up to others to be the judge of that) and if you should apologize to anyone it should be to CryTech and not to me. It's just that if you call a specific identity (person or company) a Nazi, you better have some serious proof of that. Just to call someone a Nazi because they do something you don't like and that someone happens to be a german, is offensive. My guess is you would find it offensive if I would start referring to you as a KluxKlux clan member. Well enough said, I made my point already.
The reason why I'm replying...
My parents lived through Nazi occupation. Now that does not make me overly sensitive to Nazi sentiments in itself but it does help to learn about what the problems are with the underlying philosophy and from that derived politics.
The issue is not a state that tells you what to do, and when and where to do it. All states do this, and it's called the law which states what your rights and obligations are towards society. Totalitarian regimes overstress the obligations and disregards rights, democracies tend to focus more on rights. The Nazi regime was totalitarian, but there are many more and that is not the essence of national socialism. It was based on discrimination, the gloryfying of the arian race and the discrimination of other groups of humans to the extent of planning and executing complete extermination of these groups.
This as opposed to the modern democratic states (as led the way by France, instigated by the french revolution and soon after the declaration of independence of the US) which adhere to the basic assumptions that all individuals have equal rights and obligations.
I hope this illustrates why the correlation you seem to see, does not hold at all.
Well, let me know whether we are more in agreement now
The freedom of speech is just as dear to me as it seems to be to you, and that freedom of speech is not limited to America, it extends to all free democracies in the world.BigMac
<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>
Clearly you have taken this too much too heart, if I didn't know any better, I would say you work for them (UBI/Crytech) or just live in Germany (nothing wrong with either). I am sorry your parents had to live through that-really!, I am sure the reality of living through that was much worse than could be described in any text.
Where as my comments were directed at the company(s) and the issues involved, yours are personal attacks at me (though I am not offended, do you see the difference). In competition debating, when one side moves from the topic(s) at hand to the other debater, the debate is considered over, as that person is considered to not be able to counter the issues, so moves to personal attacks.
As for France they are a socialist government (nothing wrong with that, they voted to be that way), as opposed to a true democaracy. For that matter, the USA is not a true democaracy, we are a democratic republic. In a true democracy, everyone votes for everything, in a democratic republic, we vote for our leader, who vote for what we want (in theory).
It seems to me, freedom of speech includes being able to state your opinion, even if it is not popular or agreed to by all. This is what allows me to speak my mind, that is to state MY opinion on any topic. Further more, if anyone, group or government tries to stop someone from expressing their opinion (even distasteful ones)I feel they don't belive in freedom of speech, they belive in freedom of others to restate THEIR beliefs.
You have no way of knowing this, but I am Jewish-nuf said there. With that said, I could not oppose more any groups(KKK) hate words. But as they are Americans, they have their right to their opinion-yes you heard me right, even they have their right to their opinion, to write it and speak it. My issue comes when they take illegal actions or incite others to take illegal actions-see the difference, opinions spoken or written VS illegal actions ( I am sure many people are shocked and disagree with this statement and it is their right to feel as such and state this).
It is MY opinion, that people in America have a greater freedom of speech than other countries (whether this is fact or nationalism speeking is for others to decide).
As you can tell, you have not convinced me of your points. Even though I disagree with what you say and how you say it, I respect your right to say it.
If you want to continue this political science discussion, we should take it to the "other" catagory, it seems to me we lost the issue of the game and its relitive good and bad points and are just into political science descussion.
Let me buy you a supersized BIGMAC combo meal and agree to disagee.
That was the bell, poly sci 101 is done for today, everone remember to read chaper 3 and be ready for a quiz tommarrow. 🙂
Where as my comments were directed at the company(s) and the issues involved, yours are personal attacks at me (though I am not offended, do you see the difference). In competition debating, when one side moves from the topic(s) at hand to the other debater, the debate is considered over, as that person is considered to not be able to counter the issues, so moves to personal attacks.
As for France they are a socialist government (nothing wrong with that, they voted to be that way), as opposed to a true democaracy. For that matter, the USA is not a true democaracy, we are a democratic republic. In a true democracy, everyone votes for everything, in a democratic republic, we vote for our leader, who vote for what we want (in theory).
It seems to me, freedom of speech includes being able to state your opinion, even if it is not popular or agreed to by all. This is what allows me to speak my mind, that is to state MY opinion on any topic. Further more, if anyone, group or government tries to stop someone from expressing their opinion (even distasteful ones)I feel they don't belive in freedom of speech, they belive in freedom of others to restate THEIR beliefs.
You have no way of knowing this, but I am Jewish-nuf said there. With that said, I could not oppose more any groups(KKK) hate words. But as they are Americans, they have their right to their opinion-yes you heard me right, even they have their right to their opinion, to write it and speak it. My issue comes when they take illegal actions or incite others to take illegal actions-see the difference, opinions spoken or written VS illegal actions ( I am sure many people are shocked and disagree with this statement and it is their right to feel as such and state this).
It is MY opinion, that people in America have a greater freedom of speech than other countries (whether this is fact or nationalism speeking is for others to decide).
As you can tell, you have not convinced me of your points. Even though I disagree with what you say and how you say it, I respect your right to say it.
If you want to continue this political science discussion, we should take it to the "other" catagory, it seems to me we lost the issue of the game and its relitive good and bad points and are just into political science descussion.
Let me buy you a supersized BIGMAC combo meal and agree to disagee.
That was the bell, poly sci 101 is done for today, everone remember to read chaper 3 and be ready for a quiz tommarrow. 🙂
BigMac
Splendid
- Nov 25, 2003
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You're right about taking it to the other/other section but I'm too lazy to transport it so I'll just respond to it here. Regulars to this part of the forum know by now to avoid this topic
The political orientation of a government has nothing to do with the mechanism how they have been brought into power (democracy), please do not mix these things up. France is very much a democracy, and actually at the moment they have a conservative government not a socialist one, that was a long time ago when François Miterand was in power. Currently it is Jacques Chirac and he's a conservative. Actually the French political system is a little bit more complicated: the president is voted into power separate from the power in parliament, just like in the US where you vote for a president, and the senate and congress. However in France the majority rule of the house of representatives will determine the political signature of the prime minister, and so it is possible to have a right oriented president with a left oriented government. Although the french president has quite some actual power, he is not as powerful in the government as a US president is. Enough on French politics already if you find it interesting, <A HREF="http://www.elysee.fr/ang/pres/role1_.htm" target="_new">this is a fun link</A> to start with.
And no, I do not have a law degree so anyone with some professional insight in this matter is urged to correct me if I'm wrong.
please keep in mind costs of transportation in selecting a specific location for this gettogether (or were you planning on sending me money by wire? :tongue: )
BigMac
<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>
I don't work in the games industry and I don't live in Germany either.
My problem with your post was the way you stated your opinion (using the Nazi reference). That is personal by definition. My posts are not meant to be offensive to you. They are meant to make you aware of the fact that it may be offensive to people and why that is so.
As you may have guessed I'm not from the United States but we'll come to that later. However your knowledge with regard to european matter is lacking (again not meant to offend you). My reference to France was meant to indicate the historical origin of modern style democracies (there are way older examples but modern western based democracies find their roots there), and in light of the latest frictions/differences of insight between these two nations I found it worthwhile to highlight that fact.
The political orientation of a government has nothing to do with the mechanism how they have been brought into power (democracy), please do not mix these things up. France is very much a democracy, and actually at the moment they have a conservative government not a socialist one, that was a long time ago when François Miterand was in power. Currently it is Jacques Chirac and he's a conservative. Actually the French political system is a little bit more complicated: the president is voted into power separate from the power in parliament, just like in the US where you vote for a president, and the senate and congress. However in France the majority rule of the house of representatives will determine the political signature of the prime minister, and so it is possible to have a right oriented president with a left oriented government. Although the french president has quite some actual power, he is not as powerful in the government as a US president is. Enough on French politics already
if you find it interesting, <A HREF="http://www.elysee.fr/ang/pres/role1_.htm" target="_new">this is a fun link</A> to start with.There are many forms of implementation of democracy. For the sake of discussion I prefer to call them all democracies.
I share with you the appreciation of free speech and all its consequences. It is basically one of the constitutional rights in democracies and you will find this right in each and every one of the constitutions. However, there is a limit to free speech, and that is where it is infringing on other constitutional rights. This is why you cannot make discriminatory speeches aimed at specific persons or groups. I realize that constitutions vary between different (democratic) countries, so the balance between what is allowed under free speech, may vary between countries too. If you feel that your constitutional rights have been infringed you can bring this to a court to get a judgement on it.
So I think it boils down to a difference of opinion on how far you can go in terms of free speech. Although you have every right on your opinion in this matter, it is up to your justicial system to determine what the actual limits of free speech are. My (limited) knowledge with regard to US law in this matter is that current interpretation is a little more strict than what you think is right.
I do not have enough legal background on all constitutions in democracies around the world to confirm or deny that (and my guess is, you do not have that insight either). Just remember though that the limits of a constitutional right is set in relation to other constitutional rights (all other law is subject to the constitution) so if the there is more room in a certain constitutional right, this is bound to reflect in another constitutional right being somewhat more restricted, in those areas where there are potential conflicts between constitutional rights.
And no, I do not have a law degree
so anyone with some professional insight in this matter is urged to correct me if I'm wrong.Fine with me
please keep in mind costs of transportation in selecting a specific location for this gettogether (or were you planning on sending me money by wire? :tongue: )BigMac
<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>
Wolfy
Distinguished
- Aug 30, 2003
- 1,032
- 0
- 19,280
gaaaawd... stop with the political answers... jaysus... some ppl have got their priorities all wrong..
and after discovering the XL bacon double cheese burger meal in Burgerking I have to admit that Macdonalds food pales in comparision (altho i prefer MD's chicken nuggets with bbq sauce)... cept i live in remote part of Ireland and the closest burgerking is like... 40 miles away so i never get to have that meal and now Ive thought about it i really want one now.... oh the pain...
"Its only when you look at ants closely with a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames"
and after discovering the XL bacon double cheese burger meal in Burgerking I have to admit that Macdonalds food pales in comparision (altho i prefer MD's chicken nuggets with bbq sauce)... cept i live in remote part of Ireland and the closest burgerking is like... 40 miles away so i never get to have that meal and now Ive thought about it i really want one now.... oh the pain...
"Its only when you look at ants closely with a magnifying glass on a sunny day that you realise how often they burst into flames"
BigMac
Splendid
- Nov 25, 2003
- 5,627
- 0
- 25,780
Why are you still reading this thread? You enjoy the pain?
With regard to your fastfood problem, you probably have a Whimpy's nearby instead of a BurgerKing, or is that exclusive British trashfood? (Or did they go broke a looong time ago? We used to have a few here, in the Netherlands, but they've vanished).
BigMac
<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>
With regard to your fastfood problem, you probably have a Whimpy's nearby instead of a BurgerKing, or is that exclusive British trashfood? (Or did they go broke a looong time ago? We used to have a few here, in the Netherlands, but they've vanished).
BigMac
<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>
Stinkfinger
Distinguished
- Feb 26, 2004
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No Supersize, im on a diet.
Sorry coach, cant take the quiz, forgot to study
Confuscious say: He who go to bed with ithcy ass, wake up with stinkyfinger
Sorry coach, cant take the quiz, forgot to study
Confuscious say: He who go to bed with ithcy ass, wake up with stinkyfinger
Sorry Wolfy and everyone else, can't let this one go, yet.
Computer is dieing, Word won't come up, please forgive spelling errors.
Clearly you have taken this too much too heart-since you did not respond to that, I am forced to believe you agree.
Your problem was the way I worded my opinion of what UBI/Crytech did, well it was aimed at them, not YOU, especially since you say you are not German or in the software industry. I don't see why calling them that was personal to you. You may disagree with the useage of the term, as per you explaination, but why is it personal to you?-this is not ment as a jest. Even if I used the term incorrectly (personally, I don't think so and stand by it) why is it a personal insult to YOU? Is it becouse you feel I am lessening the horrors Nazi's did by using it this way? I certainly never ment to do so, as per my last post, you should know I am all too very awear of what they did. As you should well know, this did not happen all at once. It happened slowly, over many years. I see this as the start of being told what I can have on my computer (software), next it will be when I use my computer or how-like posting opinions on boards/communities or what I can say (stating my feelings/opinions)... By using terms that stir peoples passions- the detail of your responces shows that clearly I have aroused your passions- people will not just accept what is happening. They will talk/discuss/argue/fight about it. As people show their passion about the issue (lets not forget, the issue was and is UBI/Crytech telling people what software they can have on their computer) more and more peole will get an opinion and will start to give their opinion. This will be the start of change. If enough people tell UBI/Crytech that they will not purchase their software becouse of what they are doing, they will have two choices, change or go out of business.
Since no one else wrote that they were personally insulted by the manner in which I worded my opinion-
If anyone else out their was offended by the way I presented my opinion ie the exact words I used, please!! let me know. As I see it, since no one else responed to the wording (as of yet), I am left to conclude you are the only one who was offended by the exact wording of my opinion.
I will give you that becouse (I believe) France is socilist (the government owns natural resources, possibly major busness-the phone system-I think) has nothing to do with the fact that they vote their leaders into office. I haven seen on CNN farmers bringing the streets to a close with their tractors to protest government actions. This went on for a while. Sadly, I believe that this would not be allowed to happen here, force would be used to remove them post haste-but I digress.
Where as it is true, their are some limits on free speech, you can not tell lies ment to hurt people or yell fire in a theater or bomb in an airport. For the most part,I believe, as long as you make it clear that you are stating your opinion, you can say most things . Case and point, KKK and White Power groups hold marches and rallies spouting their (in my opinion) Anti-American thoughts and feels. What they say and believe sickens me to no end, but I would happly die protecting their right to their opinion. If we tell them they can not say as they feel, what is next, telling people they can not publicly disagree with the government, then tell us what words we can use to express our feeling, next we can not express our feelings...again, I digress, but you get the point.
I will respond to any replies, as soon as I redo my computer-it may take a day or two to fully redo so be patient.
Ok, thats the bell-read chapers 4 and 5 and be ready for the test on Friday-NO, my dog ate my studyguide excusses will be accepted.
Computer is dieing, Word won't come up, please forgive spelling errors.
Clearly you have taken this too much too heart-since you did not respond to that, I am forced to believe you agree.
Your problem was the way I worded my opinion of what UBI/Crytech did, well it was aimed at them, not YOU, especially since you say you are not German or in the software industry. I don't see why calling them that was personal to you. You may disagree with the useage of the term, as per you explaination, but why is it personal to you?-this is not ment as a jest. Even if I used the term incorrectly (personally, I don't think so and stand by it) why is it a personal insult to YOU? Is it becouse you feel I am lessening the horrors Nazi's did by using it this way? I certainly never ment to do so, as per my last post, you should know I am all too very awear of what they did. As you should well know, this did not happen all at once. It happened slowly, over many years. I see this as the start of being told what I can have on my computer (software), next it will be when I use my computer or how-like posting opinions on boards/communities or what I can say (stating my feelings/opinions)... By using terms that stir peoples passions- the detail of your responces shows that clearly I have aroused your passions- people will not just accept what is happening. They will talk/discuss/argue/fight about it. As people show their passion about the issue (lets not forget, the issue was and is UBI/Crytech telling people what software they can have on their computer) more and more peole will get an opinion and will start to give their opinion. This will be the start of change. If enough people tell UBI/Crytech that they will not purchase their software becouse of what they are doing, they will have two choices, change or go out of business.
Since no one else wrote that they were personally insulted by the manner in which I worded my opinion-
If anyone else out their was offended by the way I presented my opinion ie the exact words I used, please!! let me know. As I see it, since no one else responed to the wording (as of yet), I am left to conclude you are the only one who was offended by the exact wording of my opinion.
I will give you that becouse (I believe) France is socilist (the government owns natural resources, possibly major busness-the phone system-I think) has nothing to do with the fact that they vote their leaders into office. I haven seen on CNN farmers bringing the streets to a close with their tractors to protest government actions. This went on for a while. Sadly, I believe that this would not be allowed to happen here, force would be used to remove them post haste-but I digress.
Where as it is true, their are some limits on free speech, you can not tell lies ment to hurt people or yell fire in a theater or bomb in an airport. For the most part,I believe, as long as you make it clear that you are stating your opinion, you can say most things . Case and point, KKK and White Power groups hold marches and rallies spouting their (in my opinion) Anti-American thoughts and feels. What they say and believe sickens me to no end, but I would happly die protecting their right to their opinion. If we tell them they can not say as they feel, what is next, telling people they can not publicly disagree with the government, then tell us what words we can use to express our feeling, next we can not express our feelings...again, I digress, but you get the point.
I will respond to any replies, as soon as I redo my computer-it may take a day or two to fully redo so be patient.
Ok, thats the bell-read chapers 4 and 5 and be ready for the test on Friday-NO, my dog ate my studyguide excusses will be accepted.
BigMac
Splendid
- Nov 25, 2003
- 5,627
- 0
- 25,780
Just get me my BigMac supersized combo and be done with it, mate.
If I do not react on something you write it does not automatically mean I agree with it (just so you know) and from reading your last post, you either did not read my post or you did not understand it. Either way, let's have the food and a good laugh and be on our ways.
BigMac
<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>
If I do not react on something you write it does not automatically mean I agree with it (just so you know) and from reading your last post, you either did not read my post or you did not understand it. Either way, let's have the food and a good laugh and be on our ways.
BigMac
<A HREF="http://www.p3int.com/product_center_NWO_The_Story.asp" target="_new">New World Order</A>
mrface
Champion
- Oct 23, 2002
- 23,431
- 86
- 50,940
why would you name a childrens character grimace???
that always blew my mind. the purple guys name is grimace.
why? what reason should he be named grimace?
anyone else see my point?
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Apostalic Alcoholic.}=-</A>
that always blew my mind. the purple guys name is grimace.
why? what reason should he be named grimace?
anyone else see my point?
<A HREF="http://www.cameronwilliamson.com" target="_new">-={Apostalic Alcoholic.}=-</A>
PhukFace,
Ya I get it, my version is saying "how about them Dodgers"
Bigmac, that is PhukFace's polite way of changing the subject, I think. Sit down, scrap off the ketchup, and injoy your meal. 🙂-
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by mrmonsoon on 05/06/04 07:06 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Ya I get it, my version is saying "how about them Dodgers"
Bigmac, that is PhukFace's polite way of changing the subject, I think. Sit down, scrap off the ketchup, and injoy your meal. 🙂-
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by mrmonsoon on 05/06/04 07:06 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Stinkfinger
Distinguished
- Feb 26, 2004
- 257
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Mr. Man with big gun(M16) says we dont have any freakin french fires. Go to Wendy's!!!!!
Hey Coach: I found my #2 pencil
Confuscious say: He who go to bed with ithcy ass, wake up with stinkyfinger<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Stinkfinger on 05/06/04 09:31 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Hey Coach: I found my #2 pencil
Confuscious say: He who go to bed with ithcy ass, wake up with stinkyfinger<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Stinkfinger on 05/06/04 09:31 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Is the AR-15 a "blow back design" like the M-16. I heard they get the "guts" really dirty, but are very easy to be very, very accurate with. I like my SKS's (762by39), they use a piston and don't tend to get so dirty. The real amazing thing about them is they make anyone a crack shot in a very short time. First time out, after about 120 rounds, I was able to hit 8 out of ten at 300 yards with only the iron sights. At the time the only rifle I had shot before was a 22. I was not that good, the SKS makes anyone that good. Same day I tried a British 303 carbine. I thought I would try it one knee down (mind you I am only 140 pounds)-I was doing so good with SKS-I shot it and the next thing I know I am on my back looking straight up in the air. Not funny at the time, but now it is very funny. Target shooting and computers are a tie for favorite pastime.
From games to politics to weapons, that what I call a diverse thread. Who says THG's are one dimensional.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by mrmonsoon on 05/06/04 11:41 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
From games to politics to weapons, that what I call a diverse thread. Who says THG's are one dimensional.
<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by mrmonsoon on 05/06/04 11:41 PM.</EM></FONT></P>
Stinkfinger
Distinguished
- Feb 26, 2004
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Thats exactly what i was talkin bout. Funny as hell.
WHO put the "FREAK" in French fries?
Confuscious say: He who go to bed with ithcy ass, wake up with stinkyfinger
WHO put the "FREAK" in French fries?
Confuscious say: He who go to bed with ithcy ass, wake up with stinkyfinger
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