few questions concerning zubera deck

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1) ok, does death pit offering/nights of souls betrayal affect shirei
shinzos caretaker ability?
2) can i sacrifice sakkura tribe elder and have it return at the end of
turn
3) what happens to the legend rule when i play azusa, my oponent plays
azusa and then i play another azusa
4) if, say 3, ashen skin zubera die in the same turn then does my oponent
discard 9 cards or 3?
5) if i play devouring greed and sacrifice iname life aspect aswell as a
couple of zuberas do i still get there effect when/if i can return them to
my hand?
6) also during the same motion i am able to play all the zuberas again and
sac hana kami and return devouring greed and play in again sacrificing all
zuberas again. do i gain bonus's from the earlier sacrificed creatures?

thank you for your help
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 11:55:30 -0500, Zhambah <zhambah@hotmail.com> wrote:
>1) ok, does death pit offering/nights of souls betrayal affect shirei
>shinzos caretaker ability?

Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker 4B Legendary Creature - Spirit
2/2 Whenever a creature with power 1 or less is put into your graveyard from
play, you may return that creature card to play under your control at end of
turn if ~ is still in play.

Yes. Shirei checks the power of the creature as it leaves play. If the creature
has +2/+2 from Death Pit Offering, it's unlikely that its current power is 1 or
less (though possible); if the creature has -1/-1 from Night of Souls'
Betrayal, that makes it more likely to qualify.

>2) can i sacrifice sakkura tribe elder and have it return at the end of turn

If its power is 1 or less at the time you sacrifice it, and if Shirei stays
in play through when the delayed triggered ability resolves, the delayed
triggered ability made by Shirei's triggered ability will return the Sakura-
Tribe Elder card to play. Shirei doesn't care -why- the creature was put into
your graveyard from play, or even who controlled it - it just checks "was it
a creature?" "was its power 1 or less?" "did it come from play?" and "did it
go into your graveyard?".

>3) what happens to the legend rule when i play azusa, my oponent plays
>azusa and then i play another azusa

Your first Azusa and opponent's die at the same time; this triggers Shirei
twice. Those two triggered abilities make one delayed triggered ability each.
At end of turn, they both trigger and go on the stack; if this is your Shirei,
you decide their order. The first to resolve brings an Azusa back which kills
itself and your second Azusa (both triggering Shirei again); the second to
resolve brings the other Azusa back, and it lives. (Whichever one you put on
the stack on top of the other will resolve first.)

The two Azusas that died DURING end-of-turn step won't come back until the
next turn's end-of-turn step; if the third Azusa is still there at this time,
and Shirei is too, things will repeat and you'll be left with one Azusa and
two delayed triggered abilities again. Etc.

>4) if, say 3, ashen skin zubera die in the same turn then does my oponent
>discard 9 cards or 3?

Depends. Each time one of the Zubera triggered abilities _resolves_, it
counts how many Zubera have died _so far_ that turn. So the answer can be
anywhere from 6 to 9 (it can't be as low as 3, as that would require all three
abilities from each Zubera dying to resolve at a time when only _one_ Zubera
had died already). If all three die at once, or if all three die before any
of the abilities can resolve, opponent will end up discarding 9, 3 for each
ability; if one dies, and its ability resolves, then another dies, then its
ability resolves, then the third dies, then its ability resolves, opponent
will discard one, then two, then three cards, total 6. 7 or 8 are also possible
answers.

>5) if i play devouring greed and sacrifice iname life aspect aswell as a
>couple of zuberas do i still get there effect when/if i can return them to
>my hand?

The Zuberas' abilities do not care whether the Zubera _stays_ in the graveyard
at all, only whether it went there from play. Returning them to your hand from
the graveyard won't interfere in any way with the ability, and won't change
the count of how many went to the graveyard from play as the Zubera ability
resolves.

>6) also during the same motion i am able to play all the zuberas again and
>sac hana kami and return devouring greed and play in again sacrificing all
>zuberas again. do i gain bonus's from the earlier sacrificed creatures?

Each Zubera ability, on resolution, counts ALL the Zuberas that went from play
to the graveyard this turn so far. If a Zubera card leaves play and returns, it
will be a different creature - a different Zubera that's been summoned - even
though it's the same physical CARD. The Zubera ability, on resolution, will
count how many times all Zuberas went to the graveyard from play this turn, and
won't say "well, that's the same card, so only count it once" or anything.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

What is "zubera deck"?

Zhambah <zhambah@hotmail.com> wrote:

> 1) ok, does death pit offering/nights of souls betrayal affect shirei
> shinzos caretaker ability?

Very few things "affect" an ability. Those first two affect the *power*
of creatures, and the ability of Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker triggers
"Whenever a creature with power 1 or less is put into your graveyard
from play".

> 2) can i sacrifice sakkura tribe elder and have it return at the end of
> turn

Whenever a creature with power 1 or less is put into your graveyard from
play, you may return that creature card to play under your control at
end of turn if Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker is still in play.

If the power of Sakura-Tribe Elder is 1 or less, and Shirei, Shizo's
Caretaker is still in play at the end of the turn, why would there be an
exception?

> 3) what happens to the legend rule when i play azusa, my oponent plays
> azusa and then i play another azusa

The legend rule stays right where it is.

As soon as another legendary permanent of the same name comes into play
(e.g., your opponent's Azusa, Lost but Seeking), all legendary
permanents with that name are put into the graveyard(s). Legendary
cards in the graveyard do not interfere with the playing of a card with
the same name.

420.5e If two or more permanents with the same name have the supertype
legendary, all are put into their owners' graveyards. This is called the
"legend rule." If only one of those permanents is legendary, this rule
doesn't apply.

> 4) if, say 3, ashen skin zubera die in the same turn then does my oponent
> discard 9 cards or 3?

Insufficient data for meaningful answer.

When Ashen-Skin Zubera is put into a graveyard from play, target
opponent discards a card for each Zubera put into a graveyard from play
this turn.

You said nothing about the sequencing of the deaths and the trigger
resolutions.

> 5) if i play devouring greed and sacrifice iname life aspect aswell as a
> couple of zuberas do i still get there effect when/if i can return them to
> my hand?

Yes. The spell and the triggered abilities say nothing about whether
they stay in the graveyard.

> 6) also during the same motion i am able to play all the zuberas again and
> sac hana kami and return devouring greed and play in again sacrificing all
> zuberas again. do i gain bonus's from the earlier sacrificed creatures?

It says "for each Zubera put into a graveyard from play this turn", not
"for each Zubera that went into a graveyard from play and stayed there
this turn".
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Zhambah <zhambah@hotmail.com> sent:

Lots of little questions, they all seem to be from one deck?

> 1) ok, does death pit offering/nights of souls betrayal affect shirei
> shinzos caretaker ability?

Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker {4}{B} Legendary Creature - Spirit 2/2
/ Whenever a creature with power 1 or less is put into your graveyard
from play, you may return that creature card to play under your control
at end of turn if Shirei, Shizo's Caretaker is still in play.

This is a leaves-play trigger, so it will check what power the creature
had just before it left play. Imagine your Glory Seeker dies while
Shirei is in play. It's normally a 2/2, so it wouldn't trigger
Shirei's ability. If Night of Souls' Betrayal is in play, though, then
it leaves play as a 1/1 creature, and does trigger Shirei's ability.
Conversely, with a Death Pit Offering giving your creatures +2/+2, none
of them will be able to trigger Shirei's ability.

> 2) can i sacrifice sakkura tribe elder and have it return at the end of
> turn

Yes, you can. Sakura-Tribe Elder is a 1/1 creature, and will trigger
Shirei's ability because its power (1) is 1 or less. The fact that
it's a sacrifice rather than being destroyed doesn't change whether
Shirei's ability triggers, and the fact that you gain some benefit from
the sacrifice doesn't matter either. Shirei just looks for creatures
that were in play, and then got put into the graveyard.

> 3) what happens to the legend rule when i play azusa, my oponent plays
> azusa and then i play another azusa

Azusa, Lost but Seeking {2}{G} Legendary Creature - Human Monk 1/2
/ You may play two additional lands on each of your turns.

The legend rule remains the same, no matter how many times players play
Azusa. The one that your opponent plays will invoke the legend rule,
and both Azusa get put into the graveyard. The one that you play will
stick around.

If you happened to have Shirei in play, then when your opponent plays
his or her Azusa, the death of your one will trigger Shirei's ability.
At the end of your opponent's turn you'll have the option to put your
Azusa back into play. If you then play another Azusa, they'll again
invoke the Legend rule, and both go to the graveyard. This triggers
Azusa twice, and they can both come back at the end of your turn. If
you do bring them both back, they'll both go to the graveyard again,
and when the at-end-of-turn trigger point next comes around at the
end of your opponent's turn, you'll have the option to bring either
or both back again.

> 4) if, say 3, ashen skin zubera die in the same turn then does my oponent
> discard 9 cards or 3?

It depends when they die with respect to one another. If they die one
after another, then the first will see one Zubera (itself) the second
will see itself and the first, and the third will see itself and the
first two, for a total of 6 cards discarded. If they die
simultaneously, each will be able to count the others as being put into
a graveyard from play this turn, and each will therefore see itself and
the other two, for a total of 9 cards discarded.

> 5) if i play devouring greed and sacrifice iname life aspect aswell as a
> couple of zuberas do i still get there effect when/if i can return them to
> my hand?

Devouring Greed has the sacrifice of the Spirits as a cost, so anything
that triggers from those sacrifices will go on top of Devouring Greed
on the stack and resolve before it does. All of the sacrifices will
occur before you choose targets for any of the triggered abilities.
The triggered ability of Iname, Life Aspect targets any number of
Spirit cards in your graveyard, so it's able to pick the other Spirits
(such as the Zubera) to be returned to your hand. Note that you pick
the Spirits just after you've put Devouring Greed on the stack, but you
choose whether to remove Iname when the triggered ability resolves. If
you do, they're back in your hand before the Devouring Greed resolves.
When the Devouring Greed resolves, it deals damage ragardless of
anything that happened to the Spirits after they were sacrificed - it
doesn't watch your graveyard the whole time to make sure they're still
there.


> 6) also during the same motion i am able to play all the zuberas again and
> sac hana kami and return devouring greed and play in again sacrificing all
> zuberas again. do i gain bonus's from the earlier sacrificed creatures?

The amount of damage dealt by the second Devouring Greed will be based
on the number of Spirits you sacrifice when you play it the second time.
It won't count the Spirits you sacrificed previously, as it's a whole
new spell. However, if you sacrifice Zubera each time, they do notice
that some other Zubera went to the graveyard from play the previous
time round. So, quick example with numbers:

In play: land plus Two Ashen-Skin Zubera, one Hana Kami, one
Iname, Life Aspect.

Play Devouring Greed sacrificing three Spirits: the two Zubera and
Iname. Three triggered abilities trigger. Put the two Zubera ones
on the stack, then Iname's, with Iname's targeting the Ashen-Skin
Zubera cards in the graveyard and the Zubera abilities targeting some
opponents. Resolve from the top - remove Iname from the game and
return the Zubera to your hand, then each Zubera sees that two Zubera
died this turn, so each causes two cards to be discarded. Devouring
Greed resolves, player loses 2+(2*3)=8 life, you gain 8 life.

Sacrifice Hana Kami to return the Devouring Greed card to your hand.
That resolves, you get the card back.

Play both Zubera from your hand.

Play Devouring Greed, sacrificing the two Zubera. Both trigger, and
their triggered abilities go on the stack. When they resolve, they
see that four Zubera died this turn (the two you just sac'd, and the
two from earlier in the turn) and cause a discard of four cards each.
Devouring Greed resolves, and the targeted player loses 2+(2*2)=6 life,
you gain 6 life.

Hope that makes sense.

--
-- zoe
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Zoe Stephenson <zrs1@uk.ac.york.reversed> wrote:
>Zhambah <zhambah@hotmail.com> sent:
>> 3) what happens to the legend rule when i play azusa, my oponent plays
>> azusa and then i play another azusa
....
>If you happened to have Shirei in play, then when your opponent plays
>his or her Azusa, the death of your one will trigger Shirei's ability.

Oh, gah, correct, I had lost track of the fact that one of these was
opponent's, so wasn't going to go to YOUR graveyard from play.

>At the end of your opponent's turn you'll have the option to put your
>Azusa back into play. If you then play another Azusa, they'll again
>invoke the Legend rule, and both go to the graveyard. This triggers
>Azusa twice, and they can both come back at the end of your turn. If
>you do bring them both back, they'll both go to the graveyard again,
>and when the at-end-of-turn trigger point next comes around at the
>end of your opponent's turn, you'll have the option to bring either
>or both back again.

Repeat until bored, or until opponent throws up their hands and casts Rend
Spirit on your Shirei...

>> 6) also during the same motion i am able to play all the zuberas again and
>> sac hana kami and return devouring greed and play in again sacrificing all
>> zuberas again. do i gain bonus's from the earlier sacrificed creatures?
>
>The amount of damage dealt by the second Devouring Greed will be based
>on the number of Spirits you sacrifice when you play it the second time.
>It won't count the Spirits you sacrificed previously, as it's a whole
>new spell.

Correct, and I also missed that that was part of the question. The Spirits you
are sacrificing this time are also different creatures from the ones you
sacrificed last time, as my answer went over, even though they may be the
same physical _card_. Each Devouring Greed only counts Spirits sacrificed to
it, not "Spirits sacrificed to any spell you played this turn that was named
Devouring Greed".

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

thank you all so much for your help i am now able to understand how this
silly deck works