Finland First to Make Broadband a Legal Right

[anamaniac]

[citation][nom]ubernoobie[/nom]lol in canada, you can get 5megabyte/up/down for 20 bucks with umlimited bandiwth[/citation]
7.5 megabit down, 0.5 (yes, 0.5) megabit up, $50 a month, Alberta, Canada...

I actually like the idea of this. Free basic net to anyone and everyone if so desired.

 

[wildwell]

Will the government of Finland start handing out free computers to everybody too or do your rights stop with a free modem plugged into the wall?

 

[r3t4rd]

[citation][nom]jtt283[/nom]Now there's a man with a clue.[/citation]
I second that!!!

But you can also look at it this way:

I want to live in Finland too!!
1) Don't need to work and still get paid
2) Free Healthcare
3) Right to 100MB ISP Connection soon!
4) Hot blond lazy women who'd drink alcohol with me all day!

Wut more reasons do you need not to live there??????!!?!?!!!

 

[arlandi]

In Indonesia, getting a regular Phone is still difficult. maybe even impossible in some places. It's good that the Finns got to evolve to the next level.
I bet, the P2P traffic in that country will also rise astronomically!

 

[Guest]

The "right" only coerces operators to offer "reasonably priced" broadband access in remote areas, something they would not do otherwise, since it's bad business. The grand idea is to give 100% coverage, akin to the GSM network in Finland atm. It's up to you to exercise that right, and buy the broadband.

Too bad wireless connection speeds seem to be way off what they're advertised. It's almost criminal imo to claim speeds of 3Mbs when the average speed is maybe 300kbs.

 

[Thurin]

My gosh.

Really...

I live in Estonia, right across the pond from Finland. And to say that they are lazy communist or socialist bums who don't work and only drink is a rather grave insult. Especially coming from so many people who have most likely not even seen a country outside of the US.

No offense intended if you have, but if you have seen other countries and actually lived there for several months or a year, then you should know better.

No country in the world will give you everything for free and tolerate it if you sit on your butt and do nothing all day.

Not to mention the fact that the climate is horrible, there's a saying in these parts: "The Baltic states have but 2 types of weather: Good skiing weather and bad skiing weather." - This goes for Scandinavia as well.

Besides that, it is increasingly difficult for foreigners who do not speak the language fluently to find a job or get things done the way they should be done. Also if you move here you should be prepared to be treated as an outsider in the professional world and even in the supermarket.

A side note:
If half of you would take a second to google unemployment statistics for Finland, you will see that over 2008, Finland only had 6,4% unemployment.

So please give me a break with all this crap: "In finland you can just slack off, suck down the booze and have a good time all day and still get paid."

Coming from someone who currently resides in Estonia:
- We are underpaid (1100 Dollars a month for more than 40 hours per week of work)
- We pay more for all consumer products. (Think jeans start at 60 Dollars whereas you can get the same jeans in the States for 10-20 Dollars)
- The climate sucks balls, in winter times it can drop down as far as -30 degrees centigrade. And it gets dark at 3 pm.

The list goes on.

Don't believe everything you read or hear.

My 2 cents.

 

[Thurin]

Also on the side, in both Estonia and Finland there are still plenty of homes that do not have running water, hot water, electricity etcetera... so please save your negative, demeaning and ridiculous comments.

for they are meaningless, most definitely when they come from people who haven't truly known hardship in their lives. (look at the phrasing, this is addressed to those who lead simple and worry free lives while discussing other nations and people freely and harshly without even knowing what it is that they so casually speak of.)

 

[r3t4rd]

[citation][nom]narelda[/nom]The "right" only coerces operators to offer "reasonably priced" broadband access in remote areas, something they would not do otherwise, since it's bad business. The grand idea is to give 100% coverage, akin to the GSM network in Finland atm. It's up to you to exercise that right, and buy the broadband.Too bad wireless connection speeds seem to be way off what they're advertised. It's almost criminal imo to claim speeds of 3Mbs when the average speed is maybe 300kbs.[/citation]

Um...its pretty close if you are refering to when you download something.

3Mbits speed is close to 300Kbytes. So I'd say thier claim is correct or close.

Network/Connection overall speed has always been measured in "bits" while Network Transfer speed has always been measured in "bytes". Yeah its confusing and misleading but its been that way since who knows when. Next time take a look at your download speed it will tell you "Bytes". Go to an ISP Website...and get specifics...they'll say "bits".

Do the math:
8 bits = 1 byte
3000 Megabits/8 bits = 375 Kilobytes
20Mbs/1.5Mbs ISP (Connection/Network Speed) Claim = 2.5 MBytes/187.5 Mytes (Download/Transfer)

Makes sense? Never get Connection/Network Speed claims mixed up with Network Transfer speed. Two are different. FYI..this is basic Networking 101.

 

[r3t4rd]

Damn no..edit button.

Do the math:
8 bits = 1 byte
3000 Megabits/8 bits = 375 Kilobytes
20Mbs/1.5Mbs ISP (Connection/Network Speed) Claim = 2.5 MBytes/187.5 Mytes (Download/Transfer)

Should be:
Do the math:
8 bits = 1 byte
3 Megabits = 3000 Kilobits
3000 Kilobits/8 bits = 375 Kilobytes
20Mbs (20,000 Kilobits)/1.5Mbs (1500 Kilobits)ISP (Connection/Network Speed) Claim = 2.5 MBytes/187.5 MBytes (Download/Transfer)

 

[r3t4rd]

Simply put:

Connection Speed are measured in "Bits"

Transfer (Upload/Download) speeds are measured in "Bytes"

Nuff of my ranting.

 

[Guest]

r3T4rd, I was referring to bits, not bytes, on both speeds. Bytes are referred to with a 'B', not 'b'. FYI I'm a computer engineer, so I think I do grasp the difference. XD

In any case, the maximum speed over 3G networks never really happen, not by a long shot. That's why there's lot of complaints made to the operators about the new wireless connection not working as fast as the customer thought when they compared the speed to a landline broadband.

 

[r3t4rd]

[citation][nom]naarelda[/nom]r3T4rd, I was referring to bits, not bytes, on both speeds. Bytes are referred to with a 'B', not 'b'. FYI I'm a computer engineer, so I think I do grasp the difference. XDIn any case, the maximum speed over 3G networks never really happen, not by a long shot. That's why there's lot of complaints made to the operators about the new wireless connection not working as fast as the customer thought when they compared the speed to a landline broadband.[/citation]
My apologies and I was not trying to belittle you. No harm done. As you can see, some people are still susceptible to the wording and usage. And they often confuse themselves as you can see in some of the posts.

But agreed. 3G network is mediocre at best but its all we have to use unless you are in a WiFi spot. Lets hope 4G takes off faster and better improved speeds.

 

[liemfukliang]

I know 3G 384 kbps is not to be 384 kbps. But what the connection between HSDPA 3,6 mbps to 6 KB/s? HSDPA+ Sierra modem is 21 mbps and many ISP planning to be support HSDPA+ up to 40 mbps next years. So, welcome to Visit Indonesia 2009 2010 with 6 KB/s. You barely able to open Facebook. You can't upload anything after taking picture in Bali. You can't tell you friend how cool the Bali is using webcam with 6 KB/s. I only hope ya at least 80% effisiency (0,8 * 3,6 / 8 *1024 = 368,64 KB/s intead of 6 KB/s).....

 

[asjflask]

So true about the education system in Finland. It went from having one of the worst in the world to restructuring it and having one of the best now. If the US government would just back off of businesses and schools and let them run themselves with minimum intervention we'd have fewer problems. Government IS the problem people. It can't solve its own budget problems (or problems in general for that matter), so how do you honestly expect it to solve yours?

 

[cookoy]

sure, you get what you paid for. if you're cheap, does the law say you still get the guaranteed 1mbps minimum? and if not, who goes to jail? and if i don't have any laptop or PC desktop or netbook, should the government provide me one so i can have the guaranteed minimum connection? Eureka! Utopia finally exists on Earth!

 

[r3t4rd]

[citation][nom]liemfukliang[/nom]I know 3G 384 kbps is not to be 384 kbps. But what the connection between HSDPA 3,6 mbps to 6 KB/s? HSDPA+ Sierra modem is 21 mbps and many ISP planning to be support HSDPA+ up to 40 mbps next years. So, welcome to Visit Indonesia 2009 2010 with 6 KB/s. You barely able to open Facebook. You can't upload anything after taking picture in Bali. You can't tell you friend how cool the Bali is using webcam with 6 KB/s. I only hope ya at least 80% effisiency (0,8 * 3,6 / 8 *1024 = 368,64 KB/s intead of 6 KB/s).....[/citation]
Your comments are perplexing as I am unable to figure what you are trying to say and show.

 

[pepperman]

Apparently you all (at least all the people who believe that you get paid even if you don't work, and that the harder you work, the more your neighbor gets, etc.) failed government class... Socialism and Communism are two very different systems of government.

 

[IXfearlessXI]

I think its nice how Finland is getting that, but for one I wish it would happen in America. Plus I just wish my cable gave me the speeds they are selling me, and America just needs better broadband and internet speeds in general.

 

[orionite]

What's with all the ignorance? Every country who proposes or passes a law that benefits the citizens in a quantifiable way is socialist? WTF?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland#Politics_and_government

 

[marvelfin]

Thurin,

It is just a matter of time, and Estonia will surpass Finland economically. You guys are only at a disadvantage because of your Soviet past. But because Estonia has embraced free-market capitalism, even more so that Finland, you will progress like the United States has historically, at an accelerated rate.

And because we here in America have ever increasingly embraced socialism, and further government regulation, we will see a decline in our progress. That's how you destroy super powers.

Low birth rates play a role as well, especially in countries with lots of entitlements. You need a large, young, and vibrant work force to sustain entitlements like healthcare, educations, and now technology (like Internet access). Those are indicators to look at as well.

It is not the governments job to ensure happiness. Their role is to protect our right to pursue happiness. Anything else will ultimately lead to bondage. BONDAGE, is the future for people who embrace such entitlement philosophy.

 

[marvelfin]

[citation][nom]orionite[/nom]What's with all the ignorance? Every country who proposes or passes a law that benefits the citizens in a quantifiable way is socialist? WTF? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finla [...] government[/citation]

"...laws that benefit the citizens in a quantifiable way..." - That is not what we are calling socialism. Those of us who oppose government entitlements do not oppose "laws that benefit the citizens". You are reacting to an argument we have never made.

For example, a law that protects the rights of citizens to speak their mind freely, benefits the citizens in a quantifiable way, yet it is clearly not socialism.

A law that entitles all citizens to Internet access, where the bill is covered by the whole, is socialism. It is a form of wealth redistribution. And I argue that not only are entitlements unsustainable economically, they lead to government dependence and ultimately to bondage.

Marvel

 

[Guest]

@marvelfin
Isn't the right to receive information part of the same right or the other side of the coin? They are not providing everyone with free internet access. They are safeguarding everyone's right to receive information as more and more of the information is on the internet. (And some dealings with the government bureaus happen online). As I mentioned earlier, Internet operators would prefer operating in the largest cities only and without this type of regulation, people outside of these larger cities would have no way of getting internet access.

 

[marvelfin]

[citation][nom]facepalm_[/nom]@marvelfin Isn't the right to receive information part of the same right or the other side of the coin? They are not providing everyone with free internet access. They are safeguarding everyone's right to receive information as more and more of the information is on the internet. (And some dealings with the government bureaus happen online). As I mentioned earlier, Internet operators would prefer operating in the largest cities only and without this type of regulation, people outside of these larger cities would have no way of getting internet access.[/citation]

facepalm,

According to the Ministry of Transportation and Communication, by July 2010, every person in Finland will have the guaranteed right to a one-megabit broadband connection. According to Laura Vikkonen, spokeswoman for the ministry, "Universal service is every citizen's subjective right". That is more than just the guaranteed right to "listen" to free speech, which is inherent in the right to speech without extra legislation.

I am a Finn, and have lived in Finland, and I am of the opinion that government involvement at all in this realm is undesireable and unnecessary. If the people in rural Finland want Internet access, they should be willing to pay a premium for it. I can promise you that there will be businesses in the market willing to sell services to them at that point, and infrastructure will be built. The fact that government is stepping in and guaranteeing 1mb Internet access to even rural areas, where the free market has not been able to profitably operate, is proof that this entitlement is unsustainable. It is redistribution of wealth, because the cost of infrastructure in unsustainable areas will have to be shared by those who choose to live in more sustainable areas.

In any case, this appears to be far beyond the right of free speech. People have a right to free speech, but that doesn't mean they have a right to a mouth. If someone is born without the ability speak (mykkä), it is not the government's responsibility to cure him and guarantee him the ability to talk. That is going too far.

Now, if you want to help him speak, as a private citizen, it should be your right to do so, but he is not entitled to your help. Regulation that forces charity, voids charity, and it can no longer be called charity.

The bottom line is access to the Internet is not and should not be a right. It certainly cannot be considered an inalienable right. That would be beyond silly to claim.

If you allow freedom in the market place without unreasonable regulation, you will see true innovation in this sector. If Internet is truly necessary for modern life, inventors and entrepreneurs will develop ways to reasonably sell it to the people in even the most remote areas of the world. We have see this type of innovation before, but only in environments where regulation was minimal.

 

[liemfukliang]

@r3t4rd --> I just make my first comment more detail combining with a respond from above comment.
My point is the Indonesian Internet is so slowwwwwwwwwwwww (6 KB/s) and expensiveeeeeeeeeeeeee (6 BIG MAC) and also big ping ( slow respond time) and last but not least ofter RTO.
[Damn it, Why I need copy this first to clipboard for backup. The first version comment was not successfully posted due to the "great" Indonesian Internet. Copying into clipboard now.... press submit]

 

[Guest]

The US have a lot to learn from Finland. Free health care. Free Internet. Free blondes (if you pick them some flowers).

Beating off the Russians for a whole winter during WWII. A tough little people.