Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)
Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
(I remember there had been 4 unanswered messages from you. My newserver
seems to have decided to purge them over the weekend. This morning I
only found this one left. So the reason why I don't answer to the otehr
messages is just, that I don't see them anymore)
> In article <d54sp4$d33$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>>Which means that I'm currently very short on runes, the rune mule was
>>made just for keeping them and not yet filled.
>
> Aiii... That's unfortunate. And it's an event like this (I think I lost a
> pair or +2 Marrowalks and possibly a bonehew) that made me decide to get
> another set of LOD/D2.
I'm considering that, too. Unfortunately my other computer doesn't work
very reliable, but it should still help. IIRC the battle chest sells for
15 euros, so that's no problem.
> Does this also mean you lost all your Ral runes? 🙁
Most of them. I brought in all my characters, piled up the runes, and
then tried to bring in the mule, to pick them all up. First it said
"Cannot join game" -> *shock* -> then when I switched to another char
again -> "game doesn't exists" -> *panic* -> but finally I had to accept
the loss ... 🙁
>>>Which is why i was questioning the fire/lightning sorc.
[...]
>>We can try to use the experience to build even stronger characters, or
>>we can try to build something new.
>
> Like I said, I'm not sure a Fire/Lightning sorc is that new. It probably
> has been tried when 1.10 got out, and maybe deemed a bit weak... Which is
> why you see few guides describing one.
Let me rephrase that: "We can try to use the experience to build even
stronger characters, or we can try to build something unusual".
Seriously, how weak do you think CL will be if only 40-45 points can be
spent on the lightning tree?
I decided not to try a FO/FB sorceress (it seems to be too much
mainstream) but if CL is too weak, I'll just retire her or play her in
nightmare, but not go to hell.
Given a limit of ~40 points, Nova seems to be an alternative to CL:
Nova with 41 points in:
SF: 1
Nova: 20
LM: 20
-> Mana cost: 34
-> damage: 495 - 710 (ø602.5)
Static field we want to have anyways, so the one point is just perfect
there.
CL with 42 points in:
CB: 1
LN: 1
CL: 20
LM: 20
-> Mana cost: 28
-> Range: 13.3 Yards
-> Damage: 3 - 1147 (ø575)
-> Hits: 9
Nova can hit everything in screen so against big crowds, Nova could deal
a higher amount of damage, but that's will be a very rare case I guess.
With 41 points, Nova is a tad stronger than CL. But this turns if more
points can be spent, e.g. on the synergies:
CL with 46 points in:
CB: 5
LN: 1
CL: 20
LM: 20
-> Mana cost: 28
-> Range: 13.3 Meter
-> Damage: 3 - 1317 (ø660)
-> Hits: 9
Now CL deals more damage in average.
Nova doesn't need to be aimed. Is that a benefit? Nova probably has a
shorter range. How much of a problem is that?
600 average damage per nova means to cast 10 novas to kill one (or a
group) of the act 5 standard Baals minions. That's not really
convincing. Nova needs even more mana than CL.
It seems Nova is an alternative _only_ if skills point are scarse, and
no more than 41 are available for lightning (I don't count teleport
here, which you'll want or not in both cases, CL and Nova).
>>I'm gambling coronets. I gambled a few with + 1 skills, but none for
>>sorcress skills. So I keep hunting for money, running some minor bosses
>>for items and then gambling the money away on coronets.
>
> Keep it up, I think you already can get every possible modifier on those
> gambled coronets there are.
I just checked the arreats summit and it seems coronets don't have
enough magic level, but tiaras and diadems have.
> And if you ever gamble a blue diadem or tiara
> with 3 sockets and a second mod: don't sell it for gold, but keep it!!
>
> Some of those are _very_ valuable, though I didn't know that at first
> either.
What is the reason for the value? IIRC runewords can't be made in
magical items, but 3 sockets are still very nice.
>>>That's how the Fireball guides state it: simply start pumping fire bolt
>>>from the beginning, switch to Fire ball once that becomes available, and
>>>keep pumping them until your other options are available (with an FB/FO
>>>sorc, that's at lvl 30 when FO becomes available). Normal is supposedly a
>>>breeze doing this.
>>
>>It is. FB is incredibly strong in the early ares. I'm lvl 22 and can
>>almost fight my way through the chaos sanctuary solo.
>
> Sounds good. And the way it should be; a sorc should have no problems
> there...
It depends. If you put your bets on a lvl 24 or higher spell, the start
would be more difficult. I got fire ball at lvl 12, so I already have 10
points in fire ball and 7 in its synergy fire bolt (I saved some, and
also learned teleport at level 18)
>>The only problem is mana. I tried to live on base energy as adived by
>>some sorceress guides. I gave her a lot of +mana items (+20 on amulet,
>>+17 on rings, +31 on armor, +17 on helm, +7 on shield, +24 on orb and a
>>few +mana charms). Yet, fire balls fire so rapidly that after a short
>>while she's out of mana and need to drink a blue potion. Fights are
>>burst fights, she can take down hordes of monsters quickly but needs
>>time to recover between fights.
>>
>>Currently I think base energy is too restrictive, and I'll put a few
>>points in it, maybe boosting it to 50 and see how that works.
>
> Well, my advice would be to NOT do this, but it's your character, and if
> you're not going to trade/acquire any of the +mana items, you might have a
> hard time, and some energy could be handy then.
I'll see. I definitely don't have the equipment to outfit three
sourceress properly. This one will be the poorest girl of the family for
a while. My other sorc has 100+ points in energy, so 50 is already a big
cut-down for me.
> Keep in mind these are then points you will never be able to invest in for
> instance Str, to equip a Spirit Monarch (which adds ~100 mana of it's
> own), and adds numerous other benefits, which might outweigh the 50 points
> in energy..:
I still have the 100 points saved, and could do it. So it's not yet, too
late, it's just a question of balance.
> 50 Ene: 50 x 3 = 150 mana added
> Spirit Shield: ~100 mana, FCR, 35 psn/cold/lit res, +2 skills, etc.
>
> (Of course, a monarch needs a lot more investment of str...
+2 skills is nice, and the other mods are good too. Also the shield has
a good defense, but I don't know how important that is?
> I was at that moment guzzling blue pots like crazy. But the earlier levels
> are the most difficult for a sorc, especially if you're not going to spend
> points in energy, and use equipment to get mana...
>
> In the end, it's more than worth it, I think...
I know. I'm just worried about the path there
>>I need to sum them up first, but I think my fire wall/frozen orb sorc
>>has already more than 30 points in cold skill. FO needs a lot of
>>prerequisites (6 I believe) so that 30 points only mean 24 for FO/CM
>>itself. Even if FO is strong, this will limit it's use quite a bit.
>
> But it's powerful and cheap compared to the alternatives...
Yes, that's right. If we use the 41 points that I used for my
calculation above, FO/CM will be stronger than the nova build, and FO
travels over the screen shooting shards in all directions while Nova is
fixed to caster and doesn't go through doors as easily ...
So if power is the only goal, FO/CM is a must have.
>>Fire wall is easy on the skill points. It just needs two prerequisites,
>>and has no synergies, so you can max it out with ~42 total points in the
>>fire spell tree.
>
> I've also heard very good things about Meteor and Blizzard, so those might
> be options too... (Just to add more confusion...
If I made no mistake in my calculations, Meteor is the most powerful
fire spell. I still hate the delay between cast and impact.
Blizzard ist the most powerful cold spell. But it doesn't hit 100% reliably.
It's a matter of taste at this point, and a matter of your playing
style. A bit similar to my fire walls, which I like very much but others
consider unuseable.
>>Right. The only question is, if we want to accept the challenge, or
>>chicken and go to the easy way of FO/CM + additional spells
>
> I think I'm going to try the FO/FB route, but don't let that discourage
> you...
Hmmm ... you know that I have a high opinion of your experience and
playing skills. If you say FB/CL is too weak, I'll believe that.
Maybe the nova build can keep up a while, but finally FO/CM will
outperform it.
[Tri-Elemental]
> Well, Cold via FO, Fire via FB, and Lightning via SF as a boost/backup is
> about as Tri-Elemental you can get. But SF is of course never a killer, it
> can only help to weaken the targets...
I wouldn't count that as tri-elemental, becuase you have 30, 40 or more
points in each of fire and cold, and 3 or so in lightning.
> But a 'real' Tri-Elemental sorceress has been impossible to do since 1.10.
> Since I never played a sorc in 1.09, I don't know how powerful they were
> in that version...
I played 1.09 but I didn't play my sorc so far that I would have real
experience with that. I used a combination of fire ball and charged bolt.
> Apparently Nova is the basis of a build which some people over in
> alt.games.diablo call a 'RocketSorc'. However, when I asked how this build
> looks specifically, I didn't get an answer...
>
> It is supposedly very powerful, but I have no idea if this build can solo
> hell...
While you can improve most fire spells with their synergies for a long
time, Nova maxes out at 600 avg damage after 41 skills points spent,
without otpion to add anything more.
If you some day notice the 600 damage are too little, you wasted 41
points and can't do anything to improve the situation.
[Patricks suggestion: Kitchen general sorc - freezes and fries friend
and foe]
>>>20/15 FO/CM (35)
>>>20/20/20 FB/FB/FM (60)
>>>1/1/1 SF/Tel/Warmth (3)
[...]
> I think the above is more or less what my FB/FO sorc will look like. Now I
> only need time to start playing some D2.
>>Ok, so we should abandon the idea of a fire/lightning sorc ?
>
> I'm not saying you should, I'm just saying I have my doubts this build
> will be workable in Hell. It will probably do very good up until NM, but I
> think it will slow down considerably when you reach Hell..
Hearing this from you, I understand the message as "don't try it, I know
it won't work", so I'll not try it, except maybe for fun.
> Regards,
> Patrick.
--
c.u. Hajo
Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
(I remember there had been 4 unanswered messages from you. My newserver
seems to have decided to purge them over the weekend. This morning I
only found this one left. So the reason why I don't answer to the otehr
messages is just, that I don't see them anymore)
> In article <d54sp4$d33$1@domitilla.aioe.org>,
> Hansjoerg Malthaner <hansjoerg.malthaner@nurfuerspam.de> wrote:
>
>>Patrick Vervoorn wrote::
>>Which means that I'm currently very short on runes, the rune mule was
>>made just for keeping them and not yet filled.
>
> Aiii... That's unfortunate. And it's an event like this (I think I lost a
> pair or +2 Marrowalks and possibly a bonehew) that made me decide to get
> another set of LOD/D2.
I'm considering that, too. Unfortunately my other computer doesn't work
very reliable, but it should still help. IIRC the battle chest sells for
15 euros, so that's no problem.
> Does this also mean you lost all your Ral runes? 🙁
Most of them. I brought in all my characters, piled up the runes, and
then tried to bring in the mule, to pick them all up. First it said
"Cannot join game" -> *shock* -> then when I switched to another char
again -> "game doesn't exists" -> *panic* -> but finally I had to accept
the loss ... 🙁
>>>Which is why i was questioning the fire/lightning sorc.
[...]
>>We can try to use the experience to build even stronger characters, or
>>we can try to build something new.
>
> Like I said, I'm not sure a Fire/Lightning sorc is that new. It probably
> has been tried when 1.10 got out, and maybe deemed a bit weak... Which is
> why you see few guides describing one.
Let me rephrase that: "We can try to use the experience to build even
stronger characters, or we can try to build something unusual".
Seriously, how weak do you think CL will be if only 40-45 points can be
spent on the lightning tree?
I decided not to try a FO/FB sorceress (it seems to be too much
mainstream) but if CL is too weak, I'll just retire her or play her in
nightmare, but not go to hell.
Given a limit of ~40 points, Nova seems to be an alternative to CL:
Nova with 41 points in:
SF: 1
Nova: 20
LM: 20
-> Mana cost: 34
-> damage: 495 - 710 (ø602.5)
Static field we want to have anyways, so the one point is just perfect
there.
CL with 42 points in:
CB: 1
LN: 1
CL: 20
LM: 20
-> Mana cost: 28
-> Range: 13.3 Yards
-> Damage: 3 - 1147 (ø575)
-> Hits: 9
Nova can hit everything in screen so against big crowds, Nova could deal
a higher amount of damage, but that's will be a very rare case I guess.
With 41 points, Nova is a tad stronger than CL. But this turns if more
points can be spent, e.g. on the synergies:
CL with 46 points in:
CB: 5
LN: 1
CL: 20
LM: 20
-> Mana cost: 28
-> Range: 13.3 Meter
-> Damage: 3 - 1317 (ø660)
-> Hits: 9
Now CL deals more damage in average.
Nova doesn't need to be aimed. Is that a benefit? Nova probably has a
shorter range. How much of a problem is that?
600 average damage per nova means to cast 10 novas to kill one (or a
group) of the act 5 standard Baals minions. That's not really
convincing. Nova needs even more mana than CL.
It seems Nova is an alternative _only_ if skills point are scarse, and
no more than 41 are available for lightning (I don't count teleport
here, which you'll want or not in both cases, CL and Nova).
>>I'm gambling coronets. I gambled a few with + 1 skills, but none for
>>sorcress skills. So I keep hunting for money, running some minor bosses
>>for items and then gambling the money away on coronets.
>
> Keep it up, I think you already can get every possible modifier on those
> gambled coronets there are.
I just checked the arreats summit and it seems coronets don't have
enough magic level, but tiaras and diadems have.
> And if you ever gamble a blue diadem or tiara
> with 3 sockets and a second mod: don't sell it for gold, but keep it!!
>
> Some of those are _very_ valuable, though I didn't know that at first
> either.
What is the reason for the value? IIRC runewords can't be made in
magical items, but 3 sockets are still very nice.
>>>That's how the Fireball guides state it: simply start pumping fire bolt
>>>from the beginning, switch to Fire ball once that becomes available, and
>>>keep pumping them until your other options are available (with an FB/FO
>>>sorc, that's at lvl 30 when FO becomes available). Normal is supposedly a
>>>breeze doing this.
>>
>>It is. FB is incredibly strong in the early ares. I'm lvl 22 and can
>>almost fight my way through the chaos sanctuary solo.
>
> Sounds good. And the way it should be; a sorc should have no problems
> there...
It depends. If you put your bets on a lvl 24 or higher spell, the start
would be more difficult. I got fire ball at lvl 12, so I already have 10
points in fire ball and 7 in its synergy fire bolt (I saved some, and
also learned teleport at level 18)
>>The only problem is mana. I tried to live on base energy as adived by
>>some sorceress guides. I gave her a lot of +mana items (+20 on amulet,
>>+17 on rings, +31 on armor, +17 on helm, +7 on shield, +24 on orb and a
>>few +mana charms). Yet, fire balls fire so rapidly that after a short
>>while she's out of mana and need to drink a blue potion. Fights are
>>burst fights, she can take down hordes of monsters quickly but needs
>>time to recover between fights.
>>
>>Currently I think base energy is too restrictive, and I'll put a few
>>points in it, maybe boosting it to 50 and see how that works.
>
> Well, my advice would be to NOT do this, but it's your character, and if
> you're not going to trade/acquire any of the +mana items, you might have a
> hard time, and some energy could be handy then.
I'll see. I definitely don't have the equipment to outfit three
sourceress properly. This one will be the poorest girl of the family for
a while. My other sorc has 100+ points in energy, so 50 is already a big
cut-down for me.
> Keep in mind these are then points you will never be able to invest in for
> instance Str, to equip a Spirit Monarch (which adds ~100 mana of it's
> own), and adds numerous other benefits, which might outweigh the 50 points
> in energy..:
I still have the 100 points saved, and could do it. So it's not yet, too
late, it's just a question of balance.
> 50 Ene: 50 x 3 = 150 mana added
> Spirit Shield: ~100 mana, FCR, 35 psn/cold/lit res, +2 skills, etc.
>
> (Of course, a monarch needs a lot more investment of str...
+2 skills is nice, and the other mods are good too. Also the shield has
a good defense, but I don't know how important that is?
> I was at that moment guzzling blue pots like crazy. But the earlier levels
> are the most difficult for a sorc, especially if you're not going to spend
> points in energy, and use equipment to get mana...
>
> In the end, it's more than worth it, I think...
I know. I'm just worried about the path there
>>I need to sum them up first, but I think my fire wall/frozen orb sorc
>>has already more than 30 points in cold skill. FO needs a lot of
>>prerequisites (6 I believe) so that 30 points only mean 24 for FO/CM
>>itself. Even if FO is strong, this will limit it's use quite a bit.
>
> But it's powerful and cheap compared to the alternatives...
Yes, that's right. If we use the 41 points that I used for my
calculation above, FO/CM will be stronger than the nova build, and FO
travels over the screen shooting shards in all directions while Nova is
fixed to caster and doesn't go through doors as easily ...
So if power is the only goal, FO/CM is a must have.
>>Fire wall is easy on the skill points. It just needs two prerequisites,
>>and has no synergies, so you can max it out with ~42 total points in the
>>fire spell tree.
>
> I've also heard very good things about Meteor and Blizzard, so those might
> be options too... (Just to add more confusion...
If I made no mistake in my calculations, Meteor is the most powerful
fire spell. I still hate the delay between cast and impact.
Blizzard ist the most powerful cold spell. But it doesn't hit 100% reliably.
It's a matter of taste at this point, and a matter of your playing
style. A bit similar to my fire walls, which I like very much but others
consider unuseable.
>>Right. The only question is, if we want to accept the challenge, or
>>chicken and go to the easy way of FO/CM + additional spells
>
> I think I'm going to try the FO/FB route, but don't let that discourage
> you...
Hmmm ... you know that I have a high opinion of your experience and
playing skills. If you say FB/CL is too weak, I'll believe that.
Maybe the nova build can keep up a while, but finally FO/CM will
outperform it.
[Tri-Elemental]
> Well, Cold via FO, Fire via FB, and Lightning via SF as a boost/backup is
> about as Tri-Elemental you can get. But SF is of course never a killer, it
> can only help to weaken the targets...
I wouldn't count that as tri-elemental, becuase you have 30, 40 or more
points in each of fire and cold, and 3 or so in lightning.
> But a 'real' Tri-Elemental sorceress has been impossible to do since 1.10.
> Since I never played a sorc in 1.09, I don't know how powerful they were
> in that version...
I played 1.09 but I didn't play my sorc so far that I would have real
experience with that. I used a combination of fire ball and charged bolt.
> Apparently Nova is the basis of a build which some people over in
> alt.games.diablo call a 'RocketSorc'. However, when I asked how this build
> looks specifically, I didn't get an answer...
>
> It is supposedly very powerful, but I have no idea if this build can solo
> hell...
While you can improve most fire spells with their synergies for a long
time, Nova maxes out at 600 avg damage after 41 skills points spent,
without otpion to add anything more.
If you some day notice the 600 damage are too little, you wasted 41
points and can't do anything to improve the situation.
[Patricks suggestion: Kitchen general sorc - freezes and fries friend
and foe]
>>>20/15 FO/CM (35)
>>>20/20/20 FB/FB/FM (60)
>>>1/1/1 SF/Tel/Warmth (3)
[...]
> I think the above is more or less what my FB/FO sorc will look like. Now I
> only need time to start playing some D2.
>>Ok, so we should abandon the idea of a fire/lightning sorc ?
>
> I'm not saying you should, I'm just saying I have my doubts this build
> will be workable in Hell. It will probably do very good up until NM, but I
> think it will slow down considerably when you reach Hell..
Hearing this from you, I understand the message as "don't try it, I know
it won't work", so I'll not try it, except maybe for fun.
> Regards,
> Patrick.
--
c.u. Hajo
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