Archived from groups: alt.games.diablo2 (More info?)
Last2Know wrote:
> On Fri, 06 May 2005 22:31:52 +0200, Sonni Skammelsen wrote:
>
>
>>Last2Know wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 22:21:29 +0200, Sonni Skammelsen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Ok, i think we only agree here if you can show a build where you uses
>>>>homunculus, white and 20% fcr circlet that do more damage per second.
>>>>I tried to make all combination i could think of, maybe you can show one
>>>>that i missed and would be better than mine.
>
>
> I get your point about how HoTo let's you reach fastest FCR
> breakpoint at 125%=9 frames, but 75% = 10 frames is doable
> at a much higher plus skill level. So that is the better
> choice for maximizing damage per second since the speed difference
> is just 10%.
>
>
>>>Which circlet are we considering? Do you mean I am free to
>>>put whatever properties on the circlet I wish?
>>>
>>
>>Sure as long they really can spawn on a circlet.
>
>
> This is too easy, but okay. A rare circlet can have up
> to 3 prefixes and 3 suffixes and 2 sockets.
> So, for Bone Necro, let's
> see -
>
> Prefix Choice = +20 res all, +2 Necro (lvl 90 req) or
> just +2 P&B (lvl 40 req), and +90 mana.
>
> Suffixes = +30 strength, +60 life, +20 FCR,
>
> With Um socket, the above would give 35 res all, but
> for fun, let's say we use Cham in socket in the cost no
> option build.
>
> White Wand with +3 Bone Spear in base gives 20% FCR,
> +3 PNB (+8 total to Bone Spear), +13 mana, +10 vita, 4 MDR.
>
> Arachnid Mesh gives +1 skill and 20% FCR.
>
> Magefist gives 20% FCR and +25% mana regen.
>
> Homoculous + Um gives +2 all skill, an extra +2 curses,
> +62 res all, 40 mana, +33% mana regen, +5 mana per kill,
> etc.
>
> 2 SOJ gives +2 skills and +50% mana regen.
>
> CoH gives +2 skills, 65 res all, +20 strength, etc.
>
> Above is already 147 res all without charms.
> So we can afford to get +3 P&B on the amulet and some
> other good mods without worrying about resists.
> Boots can be Marrowalks for the synergy bug
> (can get FRW as second mod on GCs if needed).
>
> Above adds up to +20 to bone spear.
>
But isn't it onyl +17 to bone spirit which delal out a lot more damage.
And you will end up with 80% fcr and my build will have 125% and my
build just as easy carries +20 bone skills.
Aand 60% fcr means you will do around 50% more damage over a second than
with 0% and 125% you will do 67% more damage per second.
So if i play a little around with the numbers i can do the some damage
as you over every second with a skill point or 2 lower then you
So you end up whit 2 skills more than me, so then we start to add
charms, then we equal more and more for every charm i put in.
So you end up with a much more expensive build going after your prices
than me and we tdo the same damage per second
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>>>>I don't know of any great gear with enough life regen to make much
>>>>>>>difference in PvM or PvP with potions allowed. They are all low in an
>>>>>>>absolute sense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>neither do i, except hoto, iirc using hoto is almost the same as always
>>>>>>drinking a great healing pot.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I haven't had the good fortune to have a HoTo yet so maybe I am
>>>>>missing something. The AS web page says it gives +20 life regen,
>>>>>which means about 2 vita/second. How does that equal always drinking
>>>>>a great healing pot? White the s**t hits the fan, 2 vita/second
>>>>>is hardly anything.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>And how fast to you regain hitpoints after drinking a pot where you
>>>>don't get double healing ?
>>>
>>>
>>>This link says that a super healing potion would be equivalent
>>>to +200 regen for 10 seconds:
>>>
>>>http://www.planetdiablo.com/library/concept-replenishlife.htm
>>>
>>>That's an order of magnitude different.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>ok, i give in, may pushed at a little. super healing ~2 greater healing,
>>so greater healing ~100 regen, which is 5 times as much as hoto, so
>>maybe it's more like a light healing pot.
>>My mistake
>
>
> A light healing pot is 40% of a super healing pot, and a minor healing
> pot is 20%, so the the Hoto is like half the effect of the minor
> healing pot - aka not too significant.
>
>
And you got number sfrom where?
minor healing pot < 10% super healing pot
light healing put = 18.755 of super healing pot
>
>
>
>>>>>Well yes, but every char has some chance to die in normal play, so
>>>>>we are only talking about how big/rare that chance is using standard
>>>>>defensive tactics. I'm saying that without the high blocking you
>>>>>have more chance to die overall.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Good to know.
>>>>Why didn't i think of that before, could it be that of all the chars i
>>>>lost which was using shield all of them had max block, and the chars i
>>>>have which haven't spenx point in dex unless it was needed ofr gear is
>>>>still alive.
>>>>Could it be that the chars getting close to monsters have 75% block, and
>>>>all others, like necro builds and elemental druids that don't get dex is
>>>>not in infight with monsters?
>>>
>>>
>>>You're not giving details of which builds you tried and what playing
>>>styles, so I can't really comment. One point to make is that I would not
>>>recommend trying to get a blocking percentage above the display percentage
>>>of a given shield, since there is diminishing returns for each point of
>>>dex over that. So I recommend less than max block for shields with
>>>blocking percentage less than 75% for your char.
>>>
>>
>>Chars lost with 75% block is 2xpaladins, 1 avenger level 69 and 1 holy
>>freeze zealot level 82, 1 FO/CL sorc level 82.
>>Chars still alive 1 sumoning necro level 91 with base dex, 1 boner level
>>60 with base dex.
>
>
> Err...are you saying that you lost melee chars with shields and didn't
> lose caster chars without shields?
>
FO/CL sorc doesn go as melee in my book.
And not exactly without shield, just without any meaningfull blocking,
iirc homunculus gives aroung 7% blocking with bade dex on a level 91
necro, so i have a little block.
And unless something goes wrong i will soon have a level 70+ druid with
base and little dex too, using shield of course.
>
>
>>>>>>And sure explosions can partly be bocked, but only 75% of the time, the
>>>>>>rest 25% will kill you, which is not an option
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You chance of dieing due to 2 exploding dolls getting close and going
>>>>>off will be much lower with the max blocking than with the
>>>>>extra vita. Same comment about fire archer packs.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Now i usually don't stand next to dolls
>>>>But i know i can take a crosshit from +10 souls with a might boss
>>>>without dying, and i also know that if i had boosted my dex for max
>>>>block i had been dead
>>>
>>>
>>>souls=burning souls? What does might aura do for them? I didn't
>>>realize there was a physical component to their lightning attacks.
>>>
>>
>>My experience is their attack can be blocked, so it must contain
>>physical damage. Many times both my pala's and my berserker shows block
>>animation when being hitted combined with 0 hitpoints lost.
>>Just like dolls corpse explosions where you can block all the damage
>>because it carries some physical damage.
>
>
> Not sure about that inference. It could be that having high
> MDR and/or lightning absorb just causes you to take no damage.
> Did you actually see yourself in a block animation from a
> gloam type attack (I know they can be blocked by Assassin weapon
> block but thought that was in contrast to the shield case).
>
MDR would be max 15 from a dwarf star.
Lightning absorc if for chickens, with other words i don't think i ever
used anything with lightning absorb.
Well if i didn't see the blockanimation follow by a 0 hotpoint lost it
wouldn't really be my experience would it?
Actually it the only time i ever see block animation on my pala's that
in crossfire of souls.
--
Sonni
-=-=-
I see your IQ test results are negative.
Last2Know wrote:
> On Fri, 06 May 2005 22:31:52 +0200, Sonni Skammelsen wrote:
>
>
>>Last2Know wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 05 May 2005 22:21:29 +0200, Sonni Skammelsen wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Ok, i think we only agree here if you can show a build where you uses
>>>>homunculus, white and 20% fcr circlet that do more damage per second.
>>>>I tried to make all combination i could think of, maybe you can show one
>>>>that i missed and would be better than mine.
>
>
> I get your point about how HoTo let's you reach fastest FCR
> breakpoint at 125%=9 frames, but 75% = 10 frames is doable
> at a much higher plus skill level. So that is the better
> choice for maximizing damage per second since the speed difference
> is just 10%.
>
>
>>>Which circlet are we considering? Do you mean I am free to
>>>put whatever properties on the circlet I wish?
>>>
>>
>>Sure as long they really can spawn on a circlet.
>
>
> This is too easy, but okay. A rare circlet can have up
> to 3 prefixes and 3 suffixes and 2 sockets.
> So, for Bone Necro, let's
> see -
>
> Prefix Choice = +20 res all, +2 Necro (lvl 90 req) or
> just +2 P&B (lvl 40 req), and +90 mana.
>
> Suffixes = +30 strength, +60 life, +20 FCR,
>
> With Um socket, the above would give 35 res all, but
> for fun, let's say we use Cham in socket in the cost no
> option build.
>
> White Wand with +3 Bone Spear in base gives 20% FCR,
> +3 PNB (+8 total to Bone Spear), +13 mana, +10 vita, 4 MDR.
>
> Arachnid Mesh gives +1 skill and 20% FCR.
>
> Magefist gives 20% FCR and +25% mana regen.
>
> Homoculous + Um gives +2 all skill, an extra +2 curses,
> +62 res all, 40 mana, +33% mana regen, +5 mana per kill,
> etc.
>
> 2 SOJ gives +2 skills and +50% mana regen.
>
> CoH gives +2 skills, 65 res all, +20 strength, etc.
>
> Above is already 147 res all without charms.
> So we can afford to get +3 P&B on the amulet and some
> other good mods without worrying about resists.
> Boots can be Marrowalks for the synergy bug
> (can get FRW as second mod on GCs if needed).
>
> Above adds up to +20 to bone spear.
>
But isn't it onyl +17 to bone spirit which delal out a lot more damage.
And you will end up with 80% fcr and my build will have 125% and my
build just as easy carries +20 bone skills.
Aand 60% fcr means you will do around 50% more damage over a second than
with 0% and 125% you will do 67% more damage per second.
So if i play a little around with the numbers i can do the some damage
as you over every second with a skill point or 2 lower then you
So you end up whit 2 skills more than me, so then we start to add
charms, then we equal more and more for every charm i put in.
So you end up with a much more expensive build going after your prices
than me and we tdo the same damage per second
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>>>>>>>I don't know of any great gear with enough life regen to make much
>>>>>>>difference in PvM or PvP with potions allowed. They are all low in an
>>>>>>>absolute sense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>neither do i, except hoto, iirc using hoto is almost the same as always
>>>>>>drinking a great healing pot.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>I haven't had the good fortune to have a HoTo yet so maybe I am
>>>>>missing something. The AS web page says it gives +20 life regen,
>>>>>which means about 2 vita/second. How does that equal always drinking
>>>>>a great healing pot? White the s**t hits the fan, 2 vita/second
>>>>>is hardly anything.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>And how fast to you regain hitpoints after drinking a pot where you
>>>>don't get double healing ?
>>>
>>>
>>>This link says that a super healing potion would be equivalent
>>>to +200 regen for 10 seconds:
>>>
>>>http://www.planetdiablo.com/library/concept-replenishlife.htm
>>>
>>>That's an order of magnitude different.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>ok, i give in, may pushed at a little. super healing ~2 greater healing,
>>so greater healing ~100 regen, which is 5 times as much as hoto, so
>>maybe it's more like a light healing pot.
>>My mistake
>
>
> A light healing pot is 40% of a super healing pot, and a minor healing
> pot is 20%, so the the Hoto is like half the effect of the minor
> healing pot - aka not too significant.
>
>
And you got number sfrom where?
minor healing pot < 10% super healing pot
light healing put = 18.755 of super healing pot
>
>
>
>>>>>Well yes, but every char has some chance to die in normal play, so
>>>>>we are only talking about how big/rare that chance is using standard
>>>>>defensive tactics. I'm saying that without the high blocking you
>>>>>have more chance to die overall.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Good to know.
>>>>Why didn't i think of that before, could it be that of all the chars i
>>>>lost which was using shield all of them had max block, and the chars i
>>>>have which haven't spenx point in dex unless it was needed ofr gear is
>>>>still alive.
>>>>Could it be that the chars getting close to monsters have 75% block, and
>>>>all others, like necro builds and elemental druids that don't get dex is
>>>>not in infight with monsters?
>>>
>>>
>>>You're not giving details of which builds you tried and what playing
>>>styles, so I can't really comment. One point to make is that I would not
>>>recommend trying to get a blocking percentage above the display percentage
>>>of a given shield, since there is diminishing returns for each point of
>>>dex over that. So I recommend less than max block for shields with
>>>blocking percentage less than 75% for your char.
>>>
>>
>>Chars lost with 75% block is 2xpaladins, 1 avenger level 69 and 1 holy
>>freeze zealot level 82, 1 FO/CL sorc level 82.
>>Chars still alive 1 sumoning necro level 91 with base dex, 1 boner level
>>60 with base dex.
>
>
> Err...are you saying that you lost melee chars with shields and didn't
> lose caster chars without shields?
>
FO/CL sorc doesn go as melee in my book.
And not exactly without shield, just without any meaningfull blocking,
iirc homunculus gives aroung 7% blocking with bade dex on a level 91
necro, so i have a little block.
And unless something goes wrong i will soon have a level 70+ druid with
base and little dex too, using shield of course.
>
>
>>>>>>And sure explosions can partly be bocked, but only 75% of the time, the
>>>>>>rest 25% will kill you, which is not an option
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>You chance of dieing due to 2 exploding dolls getting close and going
>>>>>off will be much lower with the max blocking than with the
>>>>>extra vita. Same comment about fire archer packs.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Now i usually don't stand next to dolls
>>>>But i know i can take a crosshit from +10 souls with a might boss
>>>>without dying, and i also know that if i had boosted my dex for max
>>>>block i had been dead
>>>
>>>
>>>souls=burning souls? What does might aura do for them? I didn't
>>>realize there was a physical component to their lightning attacks.
>>>
>>
>>My experience is their attack can be blocked, so it must contain
>>physical damage. Many times both my pala's and my berserker shows block
>>animation when being hitted combined with 0 hitpoints lost.
>>Just like dolls corpse explosions where you can block all the damage
>>because it carries some physical damage.
>
>
> Not sure about that inference. It could be that having high
> MDR and/or lightning absorb just causes you to take no damage.
> Did you actually see yourself in a block animation from a
> gloam type attack (I know they can be blocked by Assassin weapon
> block but thought that was in contrast to the shield case).
>
MDR would be max 15 from a dwarf star.
Lightning absorc if for chickens, with other words i don't think i ever
used anything with lightning absorb.
Well if i didn't see the blockanimation follow by a 0 hotpoint lost it
wouldn't really be my experience would it?
Actually it the only time i ever see block animation on my pala's that
in crossfire of souls.
--
Sonni
-=-=-
I see your IQ test results are negative.
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