First time build its a £500 budget. Should I settle for a fx 6300 or save for a i5

[woody0111]

Hi all,

Didn't get a lot of traction on my last post but things have changed a bit since then.
I'm pretty much ready to build my first htpc, meant for tv and gaming, but I've still got some questions and can't really make my mind up.
I'd originally decided to go for a g3258 and over clock it but I'm going off the idea seeing as I'm not sure overclocking in a htpc case is a great idea and new games don't always play well with 2 cored.

As I see it I have 2 options, I could go for a fx 6300 build likes this
PCPartPicker part list: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/jQ2JJx
Price breakdown by merchant: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/jQ2JJx/by_merchant/

CPU: AMD FX-6300 3.5GHz 6-Core Processor (£78.77 @ CCL Computers)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-L12 37.8 CFM CPU Cooler (£38.99 @ Amazon UK)
Motherboard: MSI 970 GAMING ATX AM3+ Motherboard (£75.99 @ Ebuyer)
Memory: Kingston Savage 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (£37.85 @ Ebuyer)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 960 2GB Video Card (£152.34 @ Aria PC)
Case: Silverstone GD09B HTPC Case (£60.04 @ CCL Computers)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 500W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply (£51.99 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £495.97

I'd be able to get a decent mobo and aftermarket cooler but I'm aware that am3+ is essential dead and there's not going to be an upgrade path. I'm sure it would do pretty much anything I want right now but is it short sighted to buy it.

Or do I go for an i5 build like this

PCPartPicker part list: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/TBNr4D
Price breakdown by merchant: http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/p/TBNr4D/by_merchant/

CPU: Intel Core i5-4590 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor (£154.99 @ Aria PC)
Motherboard: MSI H97 PC MATE ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£62.07 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix Sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£35.27 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 960 2GB Video Card (£150.00)
Case: Silverstone GD09B HTPC Case (£55.00)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 430W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-Modular ATX Power Supply (£40.98 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £498.31

The mobo isn't as good and I wouldn't be able to afford an aftermarket cooler which concerns me with the case.
Is the trade off worth it?
I had a look at the sky lake i5s but the mobos just seem much more expensive and I'd just keep creeping over budget but is it worth it?
I know it's a lot of questions but I just want to get it right. I don't imagine I'll be upgrade anytime soon, just don't have the cash for that and I'm not going to be a power user or anything.

I know you guys see a lot of new build help stuff but any advise is appreciated.

Cheers

 

[13thmonkey]

second option every day of the week. A cooler can be added later in 3-6-9 months easily. That PSU however will limit you in the future.

 

[Chayan4400]

I love new builds. I love HTPC and ITX builds even more! Here is my recommendation:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor (£143.96 @ More Computers)
Motherboard: MSI H97I AC Mini ITX LGA1150 Motherboard (£78.32 @ CCL Computers)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£29.70 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 960 2GB Video Card (£164.99 @ Novatech)
Case: Thermaltake Core V1 Mini ITX Tower Case (£32.42 @ CCL Computers)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£67.98 @ CCL Computers)
Total: £517.37
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-12-21 20:13 GMT+0000

Small, well ventilated case which is essential for a Gaming HTPC. I did go overkill on the PSU, but that is because there is a £2 difference between the 650W and 550W. And why didn't I go with a cheaper PSU? Because non-modular PSUs don't mix well with ITX builds. The EVGA 650W G2 is surprisingly one of the cheapest modular PSUs in the UK, which is good because they are one of the best PSUs currently made . Comes with a 7 year warranty too. Motherboard is quite good featurewise, and comes with in built WiFi if you need it. If you really need to save some cash, downgrade the PSU to the EVGA 550W GS.

 

[woody0111]

OK so the i5 is winning out so far.
That's a nice build but the case is to tall, its got to go in a TV unit so can only be 20cm tall or something.
That's a single stick of 8gb ram. Am I not better getting 2 4gb ones?

I went for the 430watt PSU because I was trying to be efficient. I don't see myself adding many bits later. Or am I missing something?

 

[Chayan4400]

OK so the i5 is winning out so far.
That's a nice build but the case is to tall, its got to go in a TV unit so can only be 20cm tall or something.
That's a single stick of 8gb ram. Am I not better getting 2 4gb ones?

I went for the 430watt PSU because I was trying to be efficient. I don't see myself adding many bits later. Or am I missing something?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-4460 3.2GHz Quad-Core Processor (£143.96 @ More Computers)
Motherboard: ASRock Z97 Anniversary ATX LGA1150 Motherboard (£60.99 @ Ebuyer)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory (£29.70 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 960 2GB Video Card (£164.99 @ Novatech)
Case: Silverstone GD09B HTPC Case (£60.04 @ CCL Computers)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA G2 650W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£67.98 @ CCL Computers)
Total: £527.66
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-12-22 08:27 GMT+0000

New case and motherboard. With your build, the 430W PSU (Which will be much less efficient than the G2; It is rated 80+ Bronze at only 30C, Uses low quality components and in an HTPC case will get hotter and be less efficient), will run at full capacity which will shorten it's already short life span. Optimally, you want a 550W - 650W PSU so it isn't running at full capacity when under load. You can go with the 550W G2, but with the 650W at just £2 I'd get that even if you don't see yourself adding stuff later on (You never know! 3-4 years down the line you may upgrade the GPU).

For the record, the CX 430 is rated 80+ Bronze at 30C (80+ certification is an efficiency rating, although it is often manipulated by PSU manufacturers and is not a measure of the quality of the PSU) and ranks Tier 4 on Tom's Hardware's PSU Tier List. Quoting from that article:

Tier Four

Built down to a low price. Not exactly the most stable units ever created. Very basic safety circuitry or even thin gauge wiring used. Not for gaming rigs or overclocking systems of any kind. Avoid unless your budget dictates your choice.

The G2 is rated at 80+ Gold at 50C, and ranks Tier 1 on the aforementioned list:

Tier One
The highest quality and most stable Power Supply Units available. Protected by industrial grade protection circuitry and can output wattage at a rated maximum temperature of 50°C or below. These units are also Haswell certified, meaning they can cope with the C6 and C7 sleep states of 0.05Amps without triggering the under-current protection switch. May even go over labelled wattage and still work until it safely shuts down.

Your choice, but I'd go with a Tier 1 or 2 PSU at the lowest. Anything from XFX or Seasonic, or EVGA's B2 / G2 / P2 / T2 line is fine.

Tom's Hardware' PSU Tier List: http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-2547993/psu-tier-list.html

Regarding the RAM, there is an argument for both sides of it and it does remain more of a personal choice, as it does affect performance minimally. It only really make a difference if you are using the iGPU of the i5, as that uses some of the RAM as vRAM. In that case 2 sticks means more bandwidth, which leads to a substantial increase in performance. However if you use a discrete GPU then the performance increase is minimal, if any at all. If you want, 2x4GB costs only £2 more:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Memory: Kingston HyperX Fury Black 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1866 Memory (£31.98 @ Amazon UK)
Total: £31.98
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-12-22 08:46 GMT+0000

 

[13thmonkey]

I went for the 430watt PSU because I was trying to be efficient. I don't see myself adding many bits later. Or am I missing something?

Electrical efficiency won't make any noticeable difference, it'll pull the power that the system needs up to the max of the PSU, not pull everything that the PSU can offer, if that is what you were getting at.

 

[woody0111]

All really helpful stuff, and I'll definitely consider it. I can't find that psu for under £85 + postage for the life of me.
That would really screw the budget!
I'll probably go with 1 stick of ram too, can always add one later to double it if I'm feeling flush.
Is the z97 board worth it considering I'm not getting a K rated CPU?

Again thanks for the help, feels like I'm learning tons.

 

[13thmonkey]

http://www.scan.co.uk/products/650w-evga-supernova-g2-fully-modular-80plus-gold-atx-power-supply-541a-single-plus12v-rail-140mm-dou £78+p&p

this would be good too,
http://www.scan.co.uk/products/620w-seasonic-evo-full-modular-80plus-bronze-dc-dc-120mm-silent-bb-fan-atx-psu

 

[Chayan4400]

Hmmmmm, PCPartPicker seems to be wrong for once! Really sorry that the G2 link seems to be broken . I though it was too good to be true! The Seasonic M12II listed above will be a perfect replacement. It's quality is on par with the G2.

I chose that motherboard only because it's cheaper than any equivalent H97 board. Doesn't support SLI, but I don't think that's needed with a 960.

 

[woody0111]

Lol out of stock at scan and their postage seems damn expensive! Its £72 at Amazon though.
Do we think I'm better getting a 620w bronze from seasonic or a 550w gold from evga? Also, the evga has a 140mm fan and I know the case seems to only take 120mm but I guess whether it fits depends on the dimension of thebpsu rather than fan size?

 

[Chayan4400]

I'm just throwing this build in the mix as well:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

CPU: Intel Core i5-6400 2.7GHz Quad-Core Processor (£139.98 @ Novatech)
CPU Cooler: CRYORIG M9i 48.4 CFM CPU Cooler (£16.49 @ Ebuyer)
Motherboard: ASRock Z170M Pro4S Micro ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (£78.45 @ Amazon UK)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LPX 8GB (1 x 8GB) DDR4-2400 Memory (£38.05 @ Amazon UK)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 960 2GB Video Card (£154.74 @ Aria PC)
Case: Silverstone GD09B HTPC Case (£60.04 @ CCL Computers)
Power Supply: EVGA SuperNOVA GS 550W 80+ Gold Certified Fully-Modular ATX Power Supply (£64.99 @ Aria PC)
Total: £552.74
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-12-22 14:25 GMT+0000

A fair bit over your budget, yes. It comes with a newer gen CPU, DDR4 memory and most interestingly supports overclocking. That's why I included a cooler. This is because of a loophole in Skylake CPUs that allows motherboard manufacturers to enable overclocking on locked CPUs. ASRock has been the first to implement this through BIOS updates for it's Z170 motherboards that includes the Sky OC utility. This is definitely what I'd go with if I could afford to spend the extra £50. If not, the builds discussed before are just as good .

EDIT: Get the 620W Seasonic. While it is rated lower, it's quality is on par with the G2. I can't find it on PCPartPicker (The site seems a bit buggy in UK), so substitute it for the GS above as well. Don't worry about the fan size, almost all PSUs conform to one of three standards: ATX, SFX or TFX. Most cases support ATX PSUs. All the PSUs discussed here are ATX spec, so you are good to go .

 

[woody0111]

Now that's put the cat amongst the pigeons!
The cpu is running slower though, wouldn't that make a difference in day to day use/gaming? I get I'd be able to overclock from the mobo but then wouldn't I run the risk of heating the case up too much?
It is a htpc case after all.
Although it wouldn't be much of an overclock I guess.

 

[Chayan4400]

Now that's put the cat amongst the pigeons!
The cpu is running slower though, wouldn't that make a difference in day to day use/gaming? I get I'd be able to overclock from the mobo but then wouldn't I run the risk of heating the case up too much?
It is a htpc case after all.
Although it wouldn't be much of an overclock I guess.

Sorry to throw a spanner in the works .

Yes the CPU is indeed running slower, however GHz isn't everything. ASRock is advertising a 60% increase in speed for the 6400. Taking half of that (Because advertising) we still get around 3.5GHz. Even if the CPU you get isn't a good overclocker, 3.2-3.3GHz is very much attainable without a huge increase in temps; I'd say you'd still see lower temps overclocked with the M9i than at stock with the stock HSF.

Additionally, Skylake is 10-15% faster than Haswell and also runs cooler, which evens things out, and gives you the additional benefits of DDR4 and future compatibility with 7th Gen Intel CPUs. What I'm trying to say is, at stock the 6400 isn't far behind the 4460 (I'd place it between the 4460 and 4440); Mildly overclocked, it'll be substantially better.

 

[woody0111]

And only £130 on back order with Amazon? That can't be right lol
It's a serious consideration.
Also, that cooler looks real nifty for the money, especially if I can add another fan to it for a push/pull config, which it looks like I could.

 

[Chayan4400]

And only £130 on back order with Amazon? That can't be right lol
It's a serious consideration.
Also, that cooler looks real nifty for the money, especially if I can add another fan to it for a push/pull config, which it looks like I could.

Well, it's up to you . The M9i does support another fan, but you need to get a 92mm one:

http://uk.pcpartpicker.com/parts/compare/cooler-master-case-fan-r4s9s19akgp%2Cfractal-design-case-fan-fdfanssr292%2Cnoctua-case-fan-nfa9x14%2Cnoctua-case-fan-nfb9redux1600/

I'd get the Noctua ones; they are pricey, but their performance to quietness ratio is unmatched.

 

[woody0111]

Well that's the kind of thing I can do as and when.
I'll have to do some more research but I'm not sure that builds going to be beaten, just means I'll have to raid the kids Christmas fund.
Kids have to much these days anyway...

 

[Chayan4400]

Of course, the extra fan on the HSF is not a priority now. The stock config is still miles better than the stock HSF.

If you feel bad about raiding the Christmas fund, go with the Haswell build. It's just as good minus a few features.

 

[woody0111]

Here's a little update for those that are interested.
I've bought all my parts and have stuxk pretty close to chayans i5 6400 recommendation.
I'll let you know how it all goes.
I do have a concern though, I've been looking at the sky oc for the non "k" chips and it seems one of the draw backs is you can no longer get CPU temperatures. That sounds like a pretty big problem to me! How can I know if its OK or not?
Any suggestions?

 

[EJL142]

I have a question I am hoping someone can chime in on. I have been following this thread and many similar ones and was wondering if someone can chime in on a system build I am contemplating

CPU: Intel core I5-6500 3.2Ghz quad core processor (204.99 Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus Z170A LGA 1151 (139.99 newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengance 16gb (8gb x 2)DDR43000 (104.99 newegg)
Video card: Asus Radeon R9 380 armor 2 (already own)
CPU cooler Corsair H110i GT (109.99 newegg)
Powersupply Corsair cx750 (already own)

Total 569.96

What do you guys think of this system

 

[woody0111]

V.good, I take it you already have a HDD and a copy of windows (if that's what your using).
And start your own bloomin thread you scallywag

 

[EJL142]

V.good, I take it you already have a HDD and a copy of windows (if that's what your using).
And start your own bloomin thread you scallywag

Yes I have a Samsung 850 pro 512 gb ssd and windows 10 home.

Sorry about attaching onto your thread )

Cheers

 

[Chayan4400]

To the OP:

I do have a concern though, I've been looking at the sky oc for the non "k" chips and it seems one of the draw backs is you can no longer get CPU temperatures. That sounds like a pretty big problem to me! How can I know if its OK or not?
Any suggestions?

Interesting. I didn't realize this was an issue. After some further research, however this seems to be only on certain mATX and ITX motherboards:

From ASRock's website: For Z170M PRO4S / Z170M-ITX/ac / Z170M Pro4 / Z170M Extreme4, the CPU temperature cannot be read when running SKY OC.

Not to worry, this is quite easy to solve. Go with an ATX motherboard and you'll be fine:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant

Motherboard: ASRock Z170 Pro4S ATX LGA1151 Motherboard (£84.99 @ Ebuyer)
Total: £84.99
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2015-12-28 17:04 GMT+0000

A bit more expensive though (~£6). I have a feeling that the temperature cannot be read from the BIOS, as not being to read temps at all will basically make Sky OC redundant since it is very important to monitor temps when overclocking. This is just speculation however as Sky OC is not even a month old and there is practically no troubleshooting information online. This will probably change as more people use it though.

EDIT: The ATX Pro4S is cheaper than the mATX one, so it's a win-win situation!

EDIT 2: When you get the motherboard, make sure the BIOS version is L2.73/72 (Explained below) or higher; that's the one that has Sky OC. If it is an older version, you need to update it.

BIOS Update (ONLY FOR THE ATX Z170 Pro4S!): http://www.asrock.com/mb/Intel/Z170%20Pro4S/?cat=Beta
How to update the BIOS: http://www.asrock.com/support/BIOSUI.asp?cat=BIOS8

IMPORTANT NOTE: These instructions are only for the ASRock Z170 Pro4S ATX Motherboard. Instructions, BIOS updates and BIOS versions may / will differ for other models!

NOTE 2: The discrepancy in BIOS versions (L2.73/72) is because on the main Sky OC page the BIOS version is listed as L2.73. However, that link leads to the update page that lists the BIOS version as L2.72. Probably a printing mistake, so just ensure the BIOS is one of those versions and has Sky OC somewhere in it and you'll be fine .

To EJL142:

I have a question I am hoping someone can chime in on. I have been following this thread and many similar ones and was wondering if someone can chime in on a system build I am contemplating

CPU: Intel core I5-6500 3.2Ghz quad core processor (204.99 Newegg)
Motherboard: Asus Z170A LGA 1151 (139.99 newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengance 16gb (8gb x 2)DDR43000 (104.99 newegg)
Video card: Asus Radeon R9 380 armor 2 (already own)
CPU cooler Corsair H110i GT (109.99 newegg)
Powersupply Corsair cx750 (already own)

Total 569.96

What do you guys think of this system

Good starting point but you can do better. Go with 8GB of RAM (99% of games run fine on 8GB) and spend the ~$50 you save on a decent cooler like the Cryogig H7.

Then get the ASRock motherboard recommended above instead of the ASUS. That way you have the option of overclocking later on if your components become a bottleneck for future upgrades. You don't have to overclock right away; the 6500 is a very capable CPU. However, should it start to limit your PC later on, the option is always there.

The PSU you have shouldn't be a problem but it isn't a reliable one and you should consider replacing it in the near future if possible, or whenever you plan to upgrade again.

 

[woody0111]

I've already bought the Matx one! Its sat on my kitchen table lol.
Ah well. I'll give it a pop at some point. I'd thought the same thing about the temperature not showing in the BIOS but still being available using a programme. If you can't get ANY kind of temp ready then oc seems impossible to me.
This is a daft question but do I need to update the BIOS before installing windows?

 

[Chayan4400]

Nope, you can do it either way. Install Windows first then do the BIOS update if needed or BIOS update first then Windows.