News Forget Big Navi, AMD Might Be Preparing The Ultimate Navi

vinay2070

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Yes, AMD has been preparing the Ultimate Navi for quite some time now. Almost since 6 years. Better be big. I have hopes one day HL3 might be released. But Big Navi? Wait for Big Navi....
 
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grimfox

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The first Polaris cards (RX 400 series) were introduced FOUR years ago. Where are you getting this "almost 6 years" number from for Navi?
Pretty sure it's just some hyperbole. We've been "waiting" for big navi so long that the next navi seems like it'll be even further out. I think that a reference to Half life 3, the epitome of things to wait for.
 
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Actually let us just wait to see what AMD puts out. Yes yes I know website's have to keep the 'Hype' up on tech stuff but really you know what is going to happen..AMD will give the real specs and then the public will call it a 'let down' or 'this was not anything near the hype' etc etc.

When the hype for the 5700 was running wild (remember), then it was released and it was more geared to the 1080p for gaming instead of 2/4k gaming, there was some serious letdown for many people. One would think people will learn to not take the hype as gospel BUT it seems many people just will not learn.
 

vinay2070

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Actually let us just wait to see what AMD puts out. Yes yes I know website's have to keep the 'Hype' up on tech stuff but really you know what is going to happen..AMD will give the real specs and then the public will call it a 'let down' or 'this was not anything near the hype' etc etc.

When the hype for the 5700 was running wild (remember), then it was released and it was more geared to the 1080p for gaming instead of 2/4k gaming, there was some serious letdown for many people. One would think people will learn to not take the hype as gospel BUT it seems many people just will not learn.
AMD has said big Navi is going to be geared at 4K with Ray Tracing. They better keep up to it. I mean there are now UWQHD 144Hz displays out. Products for 2K 60Hz isnt gonna cut it. However small the market is, a lot of AMD fans still wait for something that performs better. And yet they are yet to put out cards that can barely compete with the 4 year old 1080ti.
 

vinay2070

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Pretty sure it's just some hyperbole. We've been "waiting" for big navi so long that the next navi seems like it'll be even further out. I think that a reference to Half life 3, the epitome of things to wait for.
Thats exactly what i meant. Wait for good performing navi now feels like it has been forever!
 
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AMD has said big Navi is going to be geared at 4K with Ray Tracing. They better keep up to it. I mean there are now UWQHD 144Hz displays out. Products for 2K 60Hz isnt gonna cut it. However small the market is, a lot of AMD fans still wait for something that performs better. And yet they are yet to put out cards that can barely compete with the 4 year old 1080ti.
Correct. I just recently upgraded to a AOC 34CUG2x ultrawide monitor (coming from a ASUS 1080p monitor the AOC is SOO much better at gaming) and using a Radeon VII which is a BEAST of a GPU (plus I do use it for other things than gaming which I have no buyers remorse here) so I am set for a while GPU wise but others do not.. Time for AMD to really really think big for gaming. 2k is climbing the charts to becoming the main for casual gaming and 4k is not far beind (for those who have the $$ for 4k monitors). Unfortunately we now live in a time that it might cost more for a GPU than it has in the past but AMD should give a GPU that is worthy, not just one to pass the time.
 
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Deicidium369

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AMD Launch Cycle

HYPE HYPE HYPE LAUNCH SIGH! NEXT So with "Big Navi" not even released yet, they have already moved the Hype Train to NEXT "Really Big, Seriously Big, Massive Navi". Looks like AMD realizes that Ampere is more than a match for Big Navi (actually more of a match for 2080TI) and that the next thing after "Big Navi" will be needed to compete. Looks like they were not able to source the Unobtanium from the Navii
Pretty sure it's just some hyperbole. We've been "waiting" for big navi so long that the next navi seems like it'll be even further out. I think that a reference to Half life 3, the epitome of things to wait for.
Sounds to me like reality setting in at AMD - they thought 2080Ti performance was the target, then Nvidia does what functional companies with actual revenue and a real R&D dept does - releases a new product. You will never get the last space invader if you are shooting where it is, rather then where it will be.
 

clsmithj

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I hopped on last year with the first wave of NAVI , RDNA1. A year before that I bought a VEGA 56, two of them. I'm good on the AMD side for now.
 

hannibal

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They talk about navi31 that may actually be very small Navi! Very low energy version for Apple computers. So it will be ultimate expensive, butbit is not even bigger Navi. People Are expecting bigger because it has bigger Number, bud amd use bigger Number if it later product, not the size...
 

King_V

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AMD Launch Cycle

HYPE HYPE HYPE LAUNCH SIGH! NEXT So with "Big Navi" not even released yet, they have already moved the Hype Train to NEXT "Really Big, Seriously Big, Massive Navi". Looks like AMD realizes that Ampere is more than a match for Big Navi (actually more of a match for 2080TI) and that the next thing after "Big Navi" will be needed to compete. Looks like they were not able to source the Unobtanium from the Navii

Sounds to me like reality setting in at AMD - they thought 2080Ti performance was the target, then Nvidia does what functional companies with actual revenue and a real R&D dept does - releases a new product. You will never get the last space invader if you are shooting where it is, rather then where it will be.
Did you have anything useful to contribute, or did you just want to take the time to attack AMD and sing Nvidia's praises?

You hate AMD. Got it. Message received.
 

vinay2070

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Did you have anything useful to contribute, or did you just want to take the time to attack AMD and sing Nvidia's praises?

You hate AMD. Got it. Message received.
I dont think anybody here is hating AMD. Competition is good. I have a 3700X CPU and hoping to upgrade my GTX 1080 to either 3080 or big navi if it remains competitive. Everybody just a little frustruated, and I dont see anybody praising nvidia. Oh BTW, my GTX 1080 was an upgrade from a 7950 Boost. 7950 is a wonderful card and still works fine in my other system.
 

Deicidium369

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Did you have anything useful to contribute, or did you just want to take the time to attack AMD and sing Nvidia's praises?

You hate AMD. Got it. Message received.
I don't hate AMD - just pointing out that they can't seem to get "Big Navi" out and they are already talking about the version after that. I have several AMD builds - it's just that they are not good enough to dislodge my Intel machines.

Nvidia is the king of compute and consumer graphics - period.

AMD's "Nvidia Killer" Navi is barely at 1080TI - not fair to compare against Turing, as Navi is not a next gen card. Now we hear about "Big Navi" which is most likely a 2080 competitor (not S or Ti). With Ampere coming about the same time as "Big Navi" - they know that they have once again shot where Nvidia was, and not where Nvidia will be,

Sorry if the facts touch a nerve with you. So did you have anything useful to contribute? Or just reactionary when anyone is critical of AMD?
 

Deicidium369

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I dont think anybody here is hating AMD. Competition is good. I have a 3700X CPU and hoping to upgrade my GTX 1080 to either 3080 or big navi if it remains competitive. Everybody just a little frustruated, and I dont see anybody praising nvidia. Oh BTW, my GTX 1080 was an upgrade from a 7950 Boost. 7950 is a wonderful card and still works fine in my other system.
I am glad that some people can read. Point was - Big Navi not even launched, and they are already talking about the "Gigantic Navi" Already setting the stage for Big Navi to be Turing level - and nothing for Ampere. I didn't think I had praised Nvidia - Since there are only 2 discrete graphics cards makers at the moment - and the conversation was about graphics cards - that good chance the long time performance leader would be mentioned.

Also looking forward to replacing my dual 2080Tis with some Ampere goodness - hopefully it's not just the 3090/Titan class that can be NVlinked - either way - 4 of whatever card will end up in my wife's rig and in mine - once the Gigabyte custom boards are released.
 
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guskline

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When neither AMD or Nvidia is releasing a new card (The 3000 series Nvidia cards seem to be the most detailed "unreleased" cards) it is natural for writers to print something to keep our hopes up.

I own a 9900k/2080TI combo and a water cooled 3900x/Radeon VII combo. In addition I have an "older" custom water cooled 5960x/1080TI combo. All are incredibly fast but the 2080TI is the King of gaming.

For a die-hard AMD gamer, from what I read, the 5700XT is a better card than the Radeon VII for 1080/1440 play. As the resolution climbs, the Radeon VII pulls away.

At this point I would be surprised if the Radeon Technology group (RTG) is as focused on a big Navi as they are getting code out to maximize the new console gpus (both AMD dersigns) for Xbox X and PS5.

We can only hope for more AMD gpu power.
 

King_V

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I don't hate AMD - just pointing out that they can't seem to get "Big Navi" out and they are already talking about the version after that. I have several AMD builds - it's just that they are not good enough to dislodge my Intel machines.

Nvidia is the king of compute and consumer graphics - period.

AMD's "Nvidia Killer" Navi is barely at 1080TI - not fair to compare against Turing, as Navi is not a next gen card. Now we hear about "Big Navi" which is most likely a 2080 competitor (not S or Ti). With Ampere coming about the same time as "Big Navi" - they know that they have once again shot where Nvidia was, and not where Nvidia will be,

Sorry if the facts touch a nerve with you. So did you have anything useful to contribute? Or just reactionary when anyone is critical of AMD?
Would you care to back each of these statements with links/documentation? When AMD first talked about Big Navi? If the time between announcement and release is any different than AMD?

When they publicly called the RX 5700 XT (which performs at 1080Ti level) the "Nvidia killer"?

etc. etc.

I'll worry about facts touching a nerve if I see any from you.
 
When the hype for the 5700 was running wild (remember), then it was released and it was more geared to the 1080p for gaming instead of 2/4k gaming, there was some serious letdown for many people.
Did you consider the RTX 2070 to be geared at 2/4k gaming when it was released? If you do then by design the 5700/XT is a 2/4k gaming card. When you see benchmarks the 5700/XT are very capable of 1440p gaming on ultra settings.

And yet they are yet to put out cards that can barely compete with the 4 year old 1080ti.
1080Ti came out in March 2017 so not 4 years old, more like 3.25 years old.

AMD's "Nvidia Killer" Navi is barely at 1080TI - not fair to compare against Turing, as Navi is not a next gen card. Now we hear about "Big Navi" which is most likely a 2080 competitor (not S or Ti).
GTX 1080Ti and RTX 2080 have basically the same performance. That means that AMD already has a product that competes directly with the RTX 2080 in the 5700XT. Sure the 5700XT is about 6-7% slower on average, but that is still competitive.

Edit: The difference in price between the cards is FAR higher than the difference in performance, close to 100%. Even if you substitute the 2070 Super for the 2080, the difference in cost is still 25+% for 5% more performance than the 5700XT.

Also looking forward to replacing my dual 2080Tis with some Ampere goodness
You make this statement all the time. However, if you are a gamer the benefits from SLI or Crossfire are nil now. Almost no one is putting out profiles in games for it anymore since the coding is that much harder.
"The fact that SLI and CrossFire setups are relatively rare has caused a bit of a vicious circle. One of the biggest complaints about multi-GPU setups is that support for them – both in games and with drivers – is pretty spotty. Many people running SLI or CrossFire would find that some games simply ignore the extra GPUs, leading to them not benefitting from the extra graphical firepower they paid for.

Even worse, some games would encounter problems with multi-GPU setups, leading to a degradation in performance.


With fewer PC gamers running multi-GPU setups, game developers became less interested in working on multi-GPU support. This led to more gamers abandoning multi-GPU setups, making game developers even less likely to implement multi-GPU support. And so on and so on.

So, Nvidia SLI and AMD CrossFire are effectively dead. But is that a bad thing?"
https://www.techradar.com/news/nvidia-sli-and-amd-crossfire-is-dead-but-should-we-mourn-multi-gpu-gaming
This downwards spiral has been happening for a quite a while now. At this point the only reason to have SLI or Crossfire for gaming is bragging rights about how much your computer cost. In the professional space there is a use for it depending on what you are doing, however, those are going to be Quadro or FirePro cards.
 
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vinay2070

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GTX 1080Ti and RTX 2080 have basically the same performance. That means that AMD already has a product that competes directly with the RTX 2080 in the 5700XT. Sure the 5700XT is about 6-7% slower on average, but that is still competitive.
1080Ti and 2080 are different cards. The 2080 supports DLSS 2 and RTX. However <Mod Edit> the RTX is, the DLSS 2 looks promising as long as nvidia makes games implement it. So no, you cannot compare a 5700XT to a 2080. And lets not forget there is a 2080 Super now. So essentially, the 5700XT is a 1080 Ti competeror. Cost wise, I agree 5700XT is a much better card as long as you dont get HW/Driver issues (much of which have been resolved now). But I still see few people returning thier cards for a 2060/2070 super.
 
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King_V

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1080Ti and 2080 are different cards. The 2080 supports DLSS 2 and RTX. However <Mod Edit> the RTX is, the DLSS 2 looks promising as long as nvidia makes games implement it. So no, you cannot compare a 5700XT to a 2080.
Those points are irrelevant. The comparison is performance, not these other features which aren't yet seeing wide adoption. Therefore, yes, you can compare them, ESPECIALLY when the comparison mentioned was strictly performance, and that the performance is only a few percentage points apart.

And lets not forget there is a 2080 Super now. So essentially, the 5700XT is a 1080 Ti competeror.
The 2080 Super is a different card. So, now you're dragging in another card, which nobody has mentioned in this thread.
Cost wise, I agree 5700XT is a much better card as long as you dont get HW/Driver issues (much of which have been resolved now). But I still see few people returning thier cards for a 2060/2070 super.
Not sure what the point of this statement is. If you see few people returning their 5700XT cards for a 2060/2070 super, then that would mean that few people are unhappy with their 5700 XT, no? Or were you trying to say that you see a lot of people doing so, and if so, where's this data coming from?


Finally -this article was talking about Big Navi. What's the point of coming in here with what basically amounts to "you should really pay Nvidia more for the same performance" approach?
 

vinay2070

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Those points are irrelevant. The comparison is performance, not these other features which aren't yet seeing wide adoption. Therefore, yes, you can compare them, ESPECIALLY when the comparison mentioned was strictly performance, and that the performance is only a few percentage points apart.
DLSS2 is a killer feature that improves PERFORMANCE while making the game look better (at least in my opinion better than native in most comparition). DLSS was not that great! But DLSS2 looking good and with nvidias stubborn ness, it will definitely be implemeneted in many upcoming games.
The 2080 Super is a different card. So, now you're dragging in another card, which nobody has mentioned in this thread.
The 2080 super is a 2080 successor - which is a new 2080 in other words. So it matters in this comparision. If given a chance AMD fanbois will compare a 5700XT to 2070 instead of the 2070 super and say 5700XT wins. lol.
Not sure what the point of this statement is. If you see few people returning their 5700XT cards for a 2060/2070 super, then that would mean that few people are unhappy with their 5700 XT, no? Or were you trying to say that you see a lot of people doing so, and if so, where's this data coming from?
Go check reddit/wccftech comment section with valid links, Toms is not the only tech site.
Finally -this article was talking about Big Navi. What's the point of coming in here with what basically amounts to "you should really pay Nvidia more for the same performance" approach?
So how does it matter? It was a discussion between me and the other guy! If you dont want to read, dont read. And stop being a fanboi and defending AMD! If I had to choose between a 2070 super and a 5700XT, I would pick up the 2070 super because I dont have confidence after reading about all the issues - even if it means not being able to support AMD!
 
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5700XT price range from $535 to $665, 2070 super : $710 to $850 quite the price difference between the two, and going by here : https://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/2522?vs=2516 looks like most of the time the cards that where tested for bench, are 10 fps part, not worth the extra cost to go with the 2070S, considering i can get a " top end " 5700Xt for less then an entry level 2070S. i havent had many issues with amd's drivers for the radeon cards that i have, so thats fine, where i have had some issues with my 1060 that caused a driver reinstall to the previous version, and wait for the next update.

isnt wccftech a, not really all that trust worthy of a site ? from what i have seen, it doesnt seem to be.
 
1080Ti and 2080 are different cards. The 2080 supports DLSS 2 and RTX. However <Mod Edit> the RTX is, the DLSS 2 looks promising as long as nvidia makes games implement it. So no, you cannot compare a 5700XT to a 2080. And lets not forget there is a 2080 Super now. So essentially, the 5700XT is a 1080 Ti competeror. Cost wise, I agree 5700XT is a much better card as long as you dont get HW/Driver issues (much of which have been resolved now). But I still see few people returning thier cards for a 2060/2070 super.
No where in my argument were features being talked about, just performance. Here is what I was responding to again:

"AMD's "Nvidia Killer" Navi is barely at 1080TI - not fair to compare against Turing, as Navi is not a next gen card. Now we hear about "Big Navi" which is most likely a 2080 competitor (not S or Ti)."

Notice the "Now we hear about "Big Navi" which is most likely a 2080 competitor (not S or Ti)" that means we were talking about ONLY the 2080. I stated that the 5700XT is within 6-7% of the 2080 so AMD already has a competitor for the 2080. While it is slower, it is within striking distance and the difference in price more than makes up for the lower performance. When you bring the 2080 Super into the equation that changes the performance numbers a good bit, but that isn't what was said Big Navi will be competing against.
 
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King_V

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We're also having a 'debate' with someone who's engaged in hyperbole from the get-go, with the waiting "almost 6 years now" statement. Further, constant moving around of the goal posts, and somehow is so pro-Nvidia/anti-AMD that they think DLSS2 looks better than native resolution rendering.

Someone who basically just came into a thread regarding an article about the pending Big Navi/Ultimate Navi so that they could bash AMD, and encourage people to go for a more expensive price/performance option.
 

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