Fort Ludios portal out broken??

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Yashichi <devnull@127.0.0.1> writes:

> What if a long worm has grown so that its tail is blocking the return
> portal? Is that possible in this case? I know worm tails have

I doubt if it's possible..
AFAIK, long worms only grow by moving their head and leaving the existing
sections where they are. Not by extending their tail or moving the
existing sections.

--
Jukka Lahtinen

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Dylan O'Donnell wrote:

> "Trajic" <trajic_waste@yahoo.com> writes:
>> 777 wrote:
>>> Plus, with Knox being anti-teleport, would the Eye even work?
>>
>> Maybe - the spoiler [ art1-341.html ] says it creates a single-use
>> portal rather than level-porting.
>
> Which was confusing (since it suggests it's not an instantaneous effect),
> so I changed it to "Transports you to..." in art1-343.txt (deliberately
> _not_ "Teleports", since it's not otherwise a similar effect).
>
>> You could try wishing for a magic marker/scrolls of genocide and then
>> genociding whatever you think is blocking the portal on the other side.
>
> There can't be anything blocking the other side of the portal. It was
> empty when you entered it (otherwise you wouldn't have been able _to_
> enter it), and levels are frozen while you're not on them (catching up
> with time elapsed only when you arrive back there).

What happens when a creature (say, the hypothetical long worm) steps on the
portal from the Ludios side? Are its tail segments guaranteed not to end
up on the portal square in the main dungeon?

--
Benjamin Lewis

A small, but vocal, contingent even argues that tin is superior, but they
are held by most to be the lunatic fringe of Foil Deflector Beanie science.

 

[user]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
> There can't be anything blocking the other side of the portal. It was
> empty when you entered it (otherwise you wouldn't have been able _to_
> enter it), and levels are frozen while you're not on them (catching
up
> with time elapsed only when you arrive back there).

That's what I thought, but the portal simply does not work. Any ideas?

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

777 wrote:
>
> the portal simply does not work. Any ideas?

If you put the save file on a web site somewhere, maybe some people
could download it and give you a better analysis. It seems to be an
interesting puzzle.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

777 wrote:

> Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
>> There can't be anything blocking the other side of the portal. It was
>> empty when you entered it (otherwise you wouldn't have been able _to_
>> enter it), and levels are frozen while you're not on them (catching up
>> with time elapsed only when you arrive back there).
>
> That's what I thought, but the portal simply does not work. Any ideas?

It looks to me like the code thinks you're arriving at the portal square
from a different level than the portal itself, which means u.uz or u.uz0
have got corrupted somehow. Perhaps you could fix it by fiddling with your
save file in a hex editor, but I don't know offhand which field you'd have
to change.

--
Benjamin Lewis

A small, but vocal, contingent even argues that tin is superior, but they
are held by most to be the lunatic fringe of Foil Deflector Beanie science.

 

[user]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
> None that immediately come to mind. Is the portal responding properly
> when you use the ^ command at it? When monsters wander into it? Are
> you getting the "You activated a magic portal!" message at all, even
> if you're then seeing no result?

The ^ command produces: "That is a magic portal." whether I'm standing
next to it or on it. Doing a : when I'm on it produces "There is a
magic portal here. You see no objects here." to be verbose.

There is no activation message whatsoever. In fact, walking on and off
produces no messages at all.

As for monsters, it's been a while since monsters have been near the
portal as I cleared the level a long time ago.... but let me see if I
can't lure the lone nymph on the level over to the portal. I have no
monster creation on me. OK, the nymph came near the portal and then
vanished from the level (so says telepathy).

Mmore solid proof: a pack of wolves spawned while I was dancing with
the nymph, and I *saw* one of them just vanish through the portal.
"Suddenly, the wolf disappears out of sight." Stepping on the portal
still does nothing for me.

Hmm, and now an Incubus has spawned, and is coming for me. I am male
though, so I can't really get anything good(wish) out of it, right?

 

[user]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Hmmm.... OK, I will try to get access to the save file. This game is
hosted on nethack.alt.org, and I'm not sure what their policy is on
releasing save files. Maybe they'll feel sorry for my plight though!

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"Trajic" <trajic_waste@yahoo.com> writes:
> 777 wrote:
> > Plus, with Knox being anti-teleport, would the Eye even work?
>
> Maybe - the spoiler [ art1-341.html ] says it creates a single-use
> portal rather than level-porting.

Which was confusing (since it suggests it's not an instantaneous effect),
so I changed it to "Transports you to..." in art1-343.txt (deliberately
_not_ "Teleports", since it's not otherwise a similar effect).

> You could try wishing for a magic marker/scrolls of genocide and then
> genociding whatever you think is blocking the portal on the other side.

There can't be anything blocking the other side of the portal. It was
empty when you entered it (otherwise you wouldn't have been able _to_
enter it), and levels are frozen while you're not on them (catching up
with time elapsed only when you arrive back there).

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "Nothing matters very much, and few things matter at all." :
: -- A.J. Balfour :

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> writes:
> Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
> > There can't be anything blocking the other side of the portal. It was
> > empty when you entered it (otherwise you wouldn't have been able _to_
> > enter it), and levels are frozen while you're not on them (catching up
> > with time elapsed only when you arrive back there).
>
> What happens when a creature (say, the hypothetical long worm) steps on the
> portal from the Ludios side? Are its tail segments guaranteed not to end
> up on the portal square in the main dungeon?

The long worm would be placed on the list of migrating monsters, with
its (head's) destination noted as being the magic portal square on the
Dungeons level. It wouldn't be until you managed to return to that
level that it would be attempted to be actually placed. Some shuffling
around might occur at that point, but it wouldn't interfere with your
arrival.

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "Nothing matters very much, and few things matter at all." :
: -- A.J. Balfour :

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Yashichi <devnull@127.0.0.1> wrote:

> On Tue, 05 Apr 2005 09:26:33 -0700, 777 wrote:
>
> > What are the specifics of the game thinking I'm arriving from another
> > level? Thinking maybe the answer is here, for nothing else applies even
> > remotely...
>
> What if a long worm has grown so that its tail is blocking the return
> portal? Is that possible in this case?

Surely that would require that something happens on a level you're not
on? The portal was free when you entered Ludios (because you used it);
if it is now blocked, the worm has moved while you were off the level.
AFAIK that's not possible.

Richard

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

"777" <jonathanshor@gmail.com> writes:
> Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
> > There can't be anything blocking the other side of the portal. It
> > was empty when you entered it (otherwise you wouldn't have been
> > able _to_ enter it), and levels are frozen while you're not on
> > them (catching up with time elapsed only when you arrive back
> > there).
>
> That's what I thought, but the portal simply does not work. Any ideas?

None that immediately come to mind. Is the portal responding properly
when you use the ^ command at it? When monsters wander into it? Are
you getting the "You activated a magic portal!" message at all, even
if you're then seeing no result?

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "Nothing matters very much, and few things matter at all." :
: -- A.J. Balfour :

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

On Wed, 06 Apr 2005 07:40:23 -0700, theKapn wrote:

> 777 wrote:
>> Is there concensus that a long worm's tail is blocking me in? What
> else
>> could block me in and cause the portal to just not work at all??
>
> To me this sounds like a very very interesting scenario and I think it
> would probably be a good idea for you to save all of your game files,
> save files, whatever so that someone maybe could debug further - if
> that is possible? Anyone know if this can be debugged with a special
> version of NH?
>

As Dylan noted in another branch of the thread, my original suggestion
that the worm could have grown while 777's character was in Ludios was not
only counterintuitive (for certain nethack-induced states of intuition)
but wrong.


--
"We are setting a standard for the rest of the world in the treatment
of people who may have loyalties to an enemy nation. We are protecting
ourselves without violating the principles of Christian decency."
Milton S. Eisenhower, "Japanese Relocation" (1943 propaganda film)

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

psmithnews@spod-central.org (Dylan O'Donnell) writes:

> Benjamin Lewis <bclewis@cs.sfu.ca> writes:
> > Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
> > > There can't be anything blocking the other side of the portal. It was
> > > empty when you entered it (otherwise you wouldn't have been able _to_
> > > enter it), and levels are frozen while you're not on them (catching up
> > > with time elapsed only when you arrive back there).
> >
> > What happens when a creature (say, the hypothetical long worm) steps on the
> > portal from the Ludios side? Are its tail segments guaranteed not to end
> > up on the portal square in the main dungeon?
>
> The long worm would be placed on the list of migrating monsters, with
> its (head's) destination noted as being the magic portal square on the
> Dungeons level.

Just curious:

What would happen if I started pudding--farming on Ludios,
sending 10^4 puddings through the portal, then cleaned up
and stepped on the portal? How's the migrating code working
with overhead monsters? Will they stay on the waiting list,
popping out the next time I visit the level, if place admits,
or will they simply vanish? What would happen if Groff the
puddler, once he found a brown pudding, kept digging a hole
and sending puddings down in legions before entering a
new level? Could he go on at least until the castle,
effectively preventing encounters with most monsters?
[Sounds like a fun alternative to the usual incredibly
boring pudding farming.]

Best,
Jakob

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Jakob Creutzig <creutzig@mathematik.tu-darmstadt.de> writes:
> Just curious:
>
> What would happen if I started pudding--farming on Ludios,
> sending 10^4 puddings through the portal, then cleaned up
> and stepped on the portal? How's the migrating code working
> with overhead monsters? Will they stay on the waiting list,
> popping out the next time I visit the level, if place admits,
> or will they simply vanish? What would happen if Groff the
> puddler, once he found a brown pudding, kept digging a hole
> and sending puddings down in legions before entering a
> new level?

This is, it seems from source inspection rather than testing, work in
progress. There's code handling the latter case (migrating monsters
being placed on a random location on a level), that was added in
3.4.3, that will "Dump the monster's cargo and leave the monster
dead." However, it doesn't seem to be being applied to the case of
arrival at or near a particular location, as with portals (despite
containing _internal_ checking for such a case); this will have the
same problems as before with "/* actually we have real problems if
enexto ever fails. migrating_mons that need to be placed will cause no
end of trouble. */" I imagine this is on the to-do list, if not
already fixed in development code.

(For those following along, the relevant function is mon_arrive() in
dog.c.)

--
: Dylan O'Donnell http://www.spod-central.org/~psmith/ :
: "Nothing matters very much, and few things matter at all." :
: -- A.J. Balfour :

 

[James]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

In article <pan.2005.04.06.20.57.04.58954@127.0.0.1>,
Yashichi <devnull@127.0.0.1> wrote:

>As Dylan noted in another branch of the thread, my original suggestion
>that the worm could have grown while 777's character was in Ludios was not
>only counterintuitive (for certain nethack-induced states of intuition)
>but wrong.

The worm, or any other monster, could have gotten to the other level FROM
Ludios through the portal.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.roguelike.nethack (More info?)

Benjamin Lewis wrote:
> Dylan O'Donnell wrote:
>
> > "Trajic" <trajic_waste@yahoo.com> writes:
> >> 777 wrote:
> >>> Plus, with Knox being anti-teleport, would the Eye even work?
> >>
> >> Maybe - the spoiler [ art1-341.html ] says it creates a single-use
> >> portal rather than level-porting.
> >
> > Which was confusing (since it suggests it's not an instantaneous
effect),
> > so I changed it to "Transports you to..." in art1-343.txt
(deliberately
> > _not_ "Teleports", since it's not otherwise a similar effect).
> >
> >> You could try wishing for a magic marker/scrolls of genocide and
then
> >> genociding whatever you think is blocking the portal on the other
side.
> >
> > There can't be anything blocking the other side of the portal. It
was
> > empty when you entered it (otherwise you wouldn't have been able
_to_
> > enter it), and levels are frozen while you're not on them (catching
up
> > with time elapsed only when you arrive back there).
>
> What happens when a creature (say, the hypothetical long worm) steps
on the
> portal from the Ludios side? Are its tail segments guaranteed not to
end
> up on the portal square in the main dungeon?

In this case, the worm be stored by the program and kept in 'limbo'
(ie, not taking up any space on either level) until the player goes
back to the destination level. Only then does the game work out how
it's going to arrange the player, the worm, pets and any other newly
arrived monsters or objects on the map. This means that a portal cannot
be blocked while the player is not on the same level as it. Monsters
escaping up/down stairs, falling through holes etc works exactly the
same.