michalmierzwa
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capt_taco
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- Aug 5, 2009
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On a really fundamental level, all this shows is that China's entire "economic strength" is based on the fact that people are willing to accept a crappy standard of living. That's why I laugh whenever I read something about China becoming the Next Economic Superpower or whatever. If they ever advanced out of basically third-world conditions, the manufacturers would be out of there to Vietnam or Malaysia faster than you could say "rocks and blocks," and China's whole economy collapses. It'd be like Pittsburgh is a billion Chinese people lived there.
- Jul 16, 2009
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[citation][nom]drchemist[/nom]What everyone is forgetting in this whole thing are the hours. Quotes from real ex-Foxconn workers say they work 60+hrs a week without overtime pay. It is not hourly it is salary pay. Most US workers including me work 60+ hrs but I get paid significantly more for doing such. Yes room/board is covered, but what life is working so much every day and never getting anything for it. To make it more interesting, you sign a contract that if you quit within the first year that you will be charged one months wage. If you stay for one year you get a one month wage bonus. . . YAY!If it was so great based on everyone here saying how great the pay is compared to the US because of housing paid for then why would hundreds say they would commit mass suicide if nothing is done. A person in the US may only make $300-$400 a month after bills but at least the living conditions here are one of the best in all the world. There's is crap. What do you think they get for food and room. We pay $600 for a 1 bedroom apt with kitchen, living room and such and cook what we want. They pay nothing, living in a dorm room the size of 250 sq. ft and probably only get the cheapest food cooked that is the same everyday. How would you like it if you could only eat Spagetti O's every meal for a year.Take this case and know that elsewhere in China pay is 1/3 of that. Give it 10 years and you will see a workers revolution beyond the likes anyone can think of. I truly believe in what Obama said that if there was a level playing field the US would show to be the best workers.[/citation]
People are queueing round the corner and down the road to get a job at this place
Contrary to popular belief they are not herded into train cars and discharged into the grounds like death camp Jews, they have chosen to apply for jobs there despite the widespread reports of conditions.
People are queueing round the corner and down the road to get a job at this place
Contrary to popular belief they are not herded into train cars and discharged into the grounds like death camp Jews, they have chosen to apply for jobs there despite the widespread reports of conditions.
n3ard3ath
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- Dec 11, 2008
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[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]People are queueing round the corner and down the road to get a job at this placeContrary to popular belief they are not herded into train cars and discharged into the grounds like death camp Jews, they have chosen to apply for jobs there despite the widespread reports of conditions.[/citation]
And as always, corporations are taking advantage of it, as they are doing right here in North-America more and more for "un-skilled" jobs since most factory jobs have been shipped oversea.
And as always, corporations are taking advantage of it, as they are doing right here in North-America more and more for "un-skilled" jobs since most factory jobs have been shipped oversea.
- Jul 16, 2009
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[citation][nom]n3ard3ath[/nom]And as always, corporations are taking advantage of it, as they are doing right here in North-America more and more for "un-skilled" jobs since most factory jobs have been shipped oversea.[/citation]
OK turn it around, say an Amrican factory opens up and somehow they manage to win the contract, maybe the taxpayer subsidised the wages, whatever, at least the jobs are now in the US, problem solved right?
...
Wrong, now instead of 980,000 hard worked Chinese people there will be 980,000 jobless Chinese people and no one in the USA would give a damn
OK turn it around, say an Amrican factory opens up and somehow they manage to win the contract, maybe the taxpayer subsidised the wages, whatever, at least the jobs are now in the US, problem solved right?
...
Wrong, now instead of 980,000 hard worked Chinese people there will be 980,000 jobless Chinese people and no one in the USA would give a damn
BulkZerker
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- Apr 19, 2010
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[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]OK turn it around, say an Amrican factory opens up and somehow they manage to win the contract, maybe the taxpayer subsidised the wages, whatever, at least the jobs are now in the US, problem solved right?...Wrong, now instead of 980,000 hard worked Chinese people there will be 980,000 jobless Chinese people and no one in the USA would give a damn[/citation]
Of course not. Dey terk er jers now we terk em bak!
Of course not. Dey terk er jers now we terk em bak!
minimum wage is bad, period! all it does is make it illegal for companies to hire workers. companies would not be able to employ more people, which causes higher unemployment. And in doing so the poor will get poorer, because it will make employers pick the more educated people among the available workforce. the more the government tries to control the economy the worst off it gets.
n3ard3ath
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- Dec 11, 2008
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[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]OK turn it around, say an Amrican factory opens up and somehow they manage to win the contract, maybe the taxpayer subsidised the wages, whatever, at least the jobs are now in the US, problem solved right?...Wrong, now instead of 980,000 hard worked Chinese people there will be 980,000 jobless Chinese people and no one in the USA would give a damn[/citation]
Maybe 1 million jobless people would entice them to start their own enterprise instead of working as slaves? Maybe even more jobless Chinese would create a turmoil in China, making them take action against their communist totalitarian government?
Nope, let's feed the monster until World World 3 instead.
Maybe 1 million jobless people would entice them to start their own enterprise instead of working as slaves? Maybe even more jobless Chinese would create a turmoil in China, making them take action against their communist totalitarian government?
Nope, let's feed the monster until World World 3 instead.
n3ard3ath
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- Dec 11, 2008
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[citation][nom]jaber2[/nom]I think everyone so far has missed the point, its not about money its about working conditions, its about making workers work overtime and have no life outside work, if this is agreeable to you then wages is a good topic to talk about.[/citation]
Sorry sir, you are wrong. It's all about money, everything is all about money. And money, the market, the demand, call it what you want, have no feeling. That's the result of a free, unregulated market, which have been imposed upon us by the worldwide elite while we were too busy shinning our cars in the driveway.
Sorry sir, you are wrong. It's all about money, everything is all about money. And money, the market, the demand, call it what you want, have no feeling. That's the result of a free, unregulated market, which have been imposed upon us by the worldwide elite while we were too busy shinning our cars in the driveway.
eddieroolz
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- Sep 6, 2008
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Ridiculous low by our standards, but considering people there can live on 2000 yuan a month, it's just in line with their living expenses.
applefairyboy
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- Oct 18, 2011
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Mathos
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- Jun 17, 2007
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[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]minimum is minimum for a reason, you do next to nothing of value why should you make more?i sound like a douche... but what foxxcon employees do is screw in screws that have a template over top so you cant screw them in wrong. many minimum wage jobs are minimum wage because you dont deserve more. again im not trying to sound like a prick, its just a harsh truth... my friend said a while ago, that he was goint to get a raise... i was happy for him, till he told me that minimum wage was going up... still feel good fro him, but disgusted at the same time...[/citation]
This is the point of view that is a major problem in this country. Just because a person works on an assembly line, doesn't mean it's "menial no skill labor".
I've worked at manufacturing plants when I was younger, back in 97 or 98 just barely out of high school. I was being paid $7.50 per hour there, would of also had insurance had I been able to last more than 2 months, but spinal meningitis kinda put me down. Here's the cold hard reality, being paid that wage, depending on the line, you had a minimum hourly parts quota. For example, the two press lines used to make the Ford frame box mounts. The 100 ton auto setup press had to put out 1000 parts per hour from 1/4" sheet metal. The second press was a manual operated, that had a minimum of 200 parts per hour, may of been a bit more, but hard to remember. Wasn't too had to keep up with that goal or pass it by far, as long as you didn't get too many that pinched down and got stuck on the anvil part of the die. So, even at that wage, for the two lines, ford may have been paying about 7-8 cents per part in labor. You don't get paid for the work in those places, you get paid for the exposure to chemicals, possibility of flying shards of sheet steel, and working around 25-150 ton presses that if something goes wrong, can blow apart, not to mention, if you do something wrong, making that item it could cost someones life down the line when that part fails.. And btw, I was working 10-12 hour days 6 days a week then.
For example, lets look at the iPhone, now, these phones haven't ever exploded or got so hot that they burned or injured their users while in their pockets have they???? Possibly due to the lithium batteries becoming shorted out? Bet that happened because some poor sod being forced to work 16 hour days was so tired to the point where they missed a screw or a cold solder.
This is the point of view that is a major problem in this country. Just because a person works on an assembly line, doesn't mean it's "menial no skill labor".
I've worked at manufacturing plants when I was younger, back in 97 or 98 just barely out of high school. I was being paid $7.50 per hour there, would of also had insurance had I been able to last more than 2 months, but spinal meningitis kinda put me down. Here's the cold hard reality, being paid that wage, depending on the line, you had a minimum hourly parts quota. For example, the two press lines used to make the Ford frame box mounts. The 100 ton auto setup press had to put out 1000 parts per hour from 1/4" sheet metal. The second press was a manual operated, that had a minimum of 200 parts per hour, may of been a bit more, but hard to remember. Wasn't too had to keep up with that goal or pass it by far, as long as you didn't get too many that pinched down and got stuck on the anvil part of the die. So, even at that wage, for the two lines, ford may have been paying about 7-8 cents per part in labor. You don't get paid for the work in those places, you get paid for the exposure to chemicals, possibility of flying shards of sheet steel, and working around 25-150 ton presses that if something goes wrong, can blow apart, not to mention, if you do something wrong, making that item it could cost someones life down the line when that part fails.. And btw, I was working 10-12 hour days 6 days a week then.
For example, lets look at the iPhone, now, these phones haven't ever exploded or got so hot that they burned or injured their users while in their pockets have they???? Possibly due to the lithium batteries becoming shorted out? Bet that happened because some poor sod being forced to work 16 hour days was so tired to the point where they missed a screw or a cold solder.
RipperjackAU
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- Apr 12, 2006
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They got a raise all right. Foxconn executives just raised the roof a few feet, so when employees jump, they will die for sure!
RipperjackAU
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- Apr 12, 2006
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I think people forget how far a Yuan goes in china. It has about 8 times the purchasing power then in the US. The US would be in the same boat if there was no minimum wage and the fed wasn't printing money like no tomorrow. We would also still have a strong manufacturing sector instead of the largest manufacturing sector that is slowly eroding. For example a bottle of coke would cost 25 cents if there was no minimum wage.
What a minimum wage does is out class most just starting in the workforce and sets a minimum for all employers to set salaries at. There is a lot less negotiation on pay between employer and employee with minimum wages. People act like you have to accept a job paying 2 cents an hour if there was no minimum wage.
What a minimum wage does is out class most just starting in the workforce and sets a minimum for all employers to set salaries at. There is a lot less negotiation on pay between employer and employee with minimum wages. People act like you have to accept a job paying 2 cents an hour if there was no minimum wage.
[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]People are queueing round the corner and down the road to get a job at this placeContrary to popular belief they are not herded into train cars and discharged into the grounds like death camp Jews, they have chosen to apply for jobs there despite the widespread reports of conditions.[/citation]
The reason they are queuing around the corner and down the road is because, as sad as this may sound, the pay is 3x that of the other places in the area. It's not until they get inside and stay that they find out it's not worth it. Plus if they try to leave they get screwed with a monetary penalty. Why do you think they are scared into not talking to anyone outside about the working conditions or else they will get jailed. You see that happen anywhere in the US or Europe. They aren't herded until they get inside. How many companies in the US or Europe have you heard of that needed to put up netting to stop so many people from committing suicide. You're also forgetting that all the reports we see are not shown or accessible to them due to the government controlled news and web. So is it really an informed decision?
The reason they are queuing around the corner and down the road is because, as sad as this may sound, the pay is 3x that of the other places in the area. It's not until they get inside and stay that they find out it's not worth it. Plus if they try to leave they get screwed with a monetary penalty. Why do you think they are scared into not talking to anyone outside about the working conditions or else they will get jailed. You see that happen anywhere in the US or Europe. They aren't herded until they get inside. How many companies in the US or Europe have you heard of that needed to put up netting to stop so many people from committing suicide. You're also forgetting that all the reports we see are not shown or accessible to them due to the government controlled news and web. So is it really an informed decision?
- Jul 16, 2009
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[citation][nom]drchemist[/nom]The reason they are queuing around the corner and down the road is because, as sad as this may sound, the pay is 3x that of the other places in the area. It's not until they get inside and stay that they find out it's not worth it. Plus if they try to leave they get screwed with a monetary penalty. Why do you think they are scared into not talking to anyone outside about the working conditions or else they will get jailed. You see that happen anywhere in the US or Europe. They aren't herded until they get inside. How many companies in the US or Europe have you heard of that needed to put up netting to stop so many people from committing suicide. You're also forgetting that all the reports we see are not shown or accessible to them due to the government controlled news and web. So is it really an informed decision?[/citation]
That is bull, 980,000 people work there and they manage to keep bad news of working conditions secret from people living in the local area whilst thousands of miles away we all know for a fact it is so bad? I don't buy it. And the number of suicides per 1000 people is lower than anywhere else in China, conditions are so bad that suicides are down. Face it, this whole Foxconn story is Liberal bleeding heart bullshit.
That is bull, 980,000 people work there and they manage to keep bad news of working conditions secret from people living in the local area whilst thousands of miles away we all know for a fact it is so bad? I don't buy it. And the number of suicides per 1000 people is lower than anywhere else in China, conditions are so bad that suicides are down. Face it, this whole Foxconn story is Liberal bleeding heart bullshit.
First, I am an American. I work hard, insanely hard. I care for others and wish to make this world a better place.
I get frustrated at news like this that comes and goes while worse conditions right around the corner were not addressed. It's all about money up top. No change of government will change that, only the principles by which the system is run. If the elites' greed causes much of the problem, then it could be fixed by people moving into those elite positions who are not greedy. Until those of us who would resist corruption and run business honorably work like dogs to take power, we can do our part now by supporting every cause toward improving other people's lives (like buying non-slavery coffee and chocolate).
The easiest place to start is truly looking out for the well-being of those around us. It is impossible to truly care about the well-being of people in other countries while not working to improve the lives of people we look in the eyes on a regular basis. Claiming otherwise is simply self-deception.
I get frustrated at news like this that comes and goes while worse conditions right around the corner were not addressed. It's all about money up top. No change of government will change that, only the principles by which the system is run. If the elites' greed causes much of the problem, then it could be fixed by people moving into those elite positions who are not greedy. Until those of us who would resist corruption and run business honorably work like dogs to take power, we can do our part now by supporting every cause toward improving other people's lives (like buying non-slavery coffee and chocolate).
The easiest place to start is truly looking out for the well-being of those around us. It is impossible to truly care about the well-being of people in other countries while not working to improve the lives of people we look in the eyes on a regular basis. Claiming otherwise is simply self-deception.
[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]That is bull, 980,000 people work there and they manage to keep bad news of working conditions secret from people living in the local area whilst thousands of miles away we all know for a fact it is so bad? I don't buy it. And the number of suicides per 1000 people is lower than anywhere else in China, conditions are so bad that suicides are down. Face it, this whole Foxconn story is Liberal bleeding heart bullshit.[/citation]
Honestly, it has nothing to do with Liberal or Conservative shit. FYI, I'm Republican and didn't vote for Obama or will I in November. The whole Foxconn situation is just bringing to light how China makes all the crap we buy. Foxconn is actually one of the better places for Manufacturing in China, but it brings into the media, showing that the conditions are no where near anything you would see in the USA. Bringing the question, would you buy a product made in China or the US if you had a choice? And don't say oh well it would be so much more expensive for the one in the US. If you are worried about $5-10 for an iphone you're crazy. The reason why it's made there in China is because it's cheaper to higher 1 million workers than to have 10,000 maintenance guys to operate most of the mechanical robotic assembly and 10,000 workers for the areas if non-robotic assembly areas. How can places like South Korea make phones at similar prices and still be competitive. Until it is cheaper to operate these places here and people stop buying products from these places China will always be growing and growing while the US economy lags and lags and lags. How can you honestly feel good about the fact that the US is becoming more and more a country of managers and CEOs. Back in the 50s people used to say around the world, "Here try this, it's the latest thing out of America." Now it's the exact opposite. The more an more we give out our technology for use to make stuff in other countries for us the more we lose our edge.
Honestly, it has nothing to do with Liberal or Conservative shit. FYI, I'm Republican and didn't vote for Obama or will I in November. The whole Foxconn situation is just bringing to light how China makes all the crap we buy. Foxconn is actually one of the better places for Manufacturing in China, but it brings into the media, showing that the conditions are no where near anything you would see in the USA. Bringing the question, would you buy a product made in China or the US if you had a choice? And don't say oh well it would be so much more expensive for the one in the US. If you are worried about $5-10 for an iphone you're crazy. The reason why it's made there in China is because it's cheaper to higher 1 million workers than to have 10,000 maintenance guys to operate most of the mechanical robotic assembly and 10,000 workers for the areas if non-robotic assembly areas. How can places like South Korea make phones at similar prices and still be competitive. Until it is cheaper to operate these places here and people stop buying products from these places China will always be growing and growing while the US economy lags and lags and lags. How can you honestly feel good about the fact that the US is becoming more and more a country of managers and CEOs. Back in the 50s people used to say around the world, "Here try this, it's the latest thing out of America." Now it's the exact opposite. The more an more we give out our technology for use to make stuff in other countries for us the more we lose our edge.
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