Freedom of marriage... is it a right?

[4Ryan6]

http://www.smh.com.au/national/girl-16-gets-court-to-halt-marriage-20110929-1kzds.html

A COURT has placed a 16-year-old girl on the airport watch list to prevent an arranged marriage taking place in Lebanon.

The girl, who cannot be named for legal reasons, applied to the Federal Magistrates Court for an order to restrain her parents from taking her out of Australia to marry a man she had met only once.

Makes you wonder, does the girl really have the right to break her social and cultural continuity.

Where is the line that has to be drawn between "we accept your culture and beliefs" and "that's not acceptable by our western standards".

Is it really fair that our Western legal system can impose restrictions on what would have invarably happened out of normality in Lebannon?

No offense to you, or anyone from Australia, but when did Australia fall into a classification of Western Standards?

Simple solution: Put yourself in the girls situation.

 

[wanamingo]

Correct me if Im wrong or if this has been brought up already in this thread but arent the couples in arranged marriages happier in the long run?

Also a bit o' Devils advocate.

 

[Mutt x]

Well, *your* moral compass certainly isn't everyone's. And one's own compass isn't necessarily the *result* of a particular "authority". In fact, most often the reverse is true . . . an authority was constructed to support a specific set of beliefs. And as a result, to restrict/exclude the beliefs of others.

I think you are mistaken. The basic moral compass is surprisingly consistent. Without it a society can not exist for long. It also seems like you are excluding the possibility that God (the Authority) could reveal a set of moral standards. In that case it would be external first then established as a social code.

I believe you have a perfect right to live your life thinking the things you outlined are immutable. That would affect only you. As a Jesuit-trained Christian, my own beliefs are quite likely to closely match yet not be identical to yours. Together we should have the right to live in a society that on the whole supports both of our values. By definition, that would exclude many, many other people.

I am not sure what you mean by "that would affect only you." If you mean that I can't expect everyone to agree with me you are correct. If you mean I can't play the "God Trump Card" and expect everyone else to agree with me you are correct. But if I what I believe is in fact "immutable" then it really would affect everyone, not just me. I do like the idea of living in a society that reflects my values--including the value to respect the differences of others.

But others who believe their own set of values is god-given must have the same rights. As do those who believe their values come from the universe, or nature, but not any god, because there is no god. When you attempt to construct a society to support too wide a set of beliefs, you eventually have a society with no rules at all. Which, to the original point, is why you can have Chinese restaurants in the US, but multiculturalism cannot work.

I hope you didn't think I would want to deny others the right to live in a culture that respects/reflects their own values. It seems what you are saying is that its unrealistic to expect people with a wide and incompatible set of values to get along very well. I agree.

Addressing your list of immutable truths by example . . . as a Christian I may disagree with you - and certainly I would disagree with many other Christians - on how the "sanctity of life" applies to abortion. Were I Muslim, I *might* believe its ok to lie to you, or kill you because you are a non-believer. In fact, I may believe god demands it. We also might disagree on what is sufficient to justify an honor killing, etc, etc, etc.

That makes perfect sense. I would expect we would only agree completely if we accepted the same authority. Muslims accept a totally different authority and therefore have a different morality.

As a result, once you step outside the boundaries of your own society, it is NOT rare to meet someone who you would say does not know right from wrong.

I disagree but we may be splitting hairs. My argument is that the most basic human values come through an our God given conscience. That conscience can and is distorted and drowned out my social and individual factors but I believe that in a person's heart they know what is right and wrong and are thereby accountable to God who set that standard.

For the most part, this is why states and countries formed and must remain, why many, many wars have been fought, and why multiculturism cannot work. Separate societies limits your ability to bind me to your beliefs . . . and protects you from mine

I agree multiculturalism cannot work.

 

[cats_Paw]

Since i know little of her culture, i wont give my opinion. I can tell you however i would not like that to happen to me.

 

[Mutt x]

Its a shame our elected officials feel the need to either be devote religious figures or have to show that they do have faith to be elected. I think once we can start electing people with different values then we are used to real change can be implemented.

How can you expect the "establishment" to support anything other than the status quo if we keep throwing the same types of people with the same views into the same positions?

When you consider that religious (Judeo/Christian) people framed the constitution of our nation so as to protect religious liberties and enshrined the value of respect/tolerance/freedom of conscience then you might notice that your freedom to not believe or practice any religion only came about because of "religious" values. Your desire to see people of "different values" elected is within your right. Good for you! But you might also think about how those different values may change the freedoms you enjoy.

Secularism/Humanism/"Atheism" has resulted in more human deaths and suffering than all religions combined.

But I totally agree with what you are saying about systems supporting themselves! Instead of replacing "religious figures" with non-religious how about we replace professional politians with community leaders?

 

[Reynod]

No offense to you, or anyone from Australia, but when did Australia fall into a classification of Western Standards?

Simple solution: Put yourself in the girls situation.

What?

Australia, the United Kindgdom and the United States are the Western countries ... who fought 5 wars for you people ... was it someone else?

Please explain how anyone could possibly not consider australia a "Westernised civilisation"??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_culture

 

[4Ryan6]

@ reynod, ROFLMAO :lol: I put that in there for you Darren! :lol:

Just trying to lighten the thread, don't roll your cannons out on me please! Ry

The 2nd sentence was for AFG

 

[billybobser]

If you keep going west around the world, you end up in china.


Who knew

 

[Twoboxer]

I agree multiculturalism cannot work.

Yes, it *is* an interesting conversation, and this is a *lousy* format for doing it justice lol. But we seem to have gotten past that. Yes, we are in agreement on the issue of multiculturalism, and quite likely on a deeper level as well.

 

[ram1009]

This is all based on someones religious beliefs. Freedom of religion is impossible without freedom from religion as well. Everyone has the right to be free from their parent's religious beliefs. Being only 16, this girl may change her mind by the time she's an adult, however at the moment she appears to have more sense than her parents. By the way, all you marriage advocates, marriage isn't a commitment to do anything.

 

[Mutt x]

This is all based on someones religious beliefs. Freedom of religion is impossible without freedom from religion as well. Everyone has the right to be free from their parent's religious beliefs. Being only 16, this girl may change her mind by the time she's an adult, however at the moment she appears to have more sense than her parents. By the way, all you marriage advocates, marriage isn't a commitment to do anything.

lol

So.....as long as your beliefs (ie no religion) are imposed on other people's children during their most formative years you are cool with it? But maybe you are just saying that at 16 she has a right to decide her faith on her own.

But then you go and say "marriage isn't a commitment to do anything" so maybe you are just talking out of your ear.

Care to clarify?

 

[iam2thecrowe]

It *is* interesting, and as I said before its why we have separate countries.

the problem is, you cant chose which country you are born in, and what brainwashing dribble you have to hear from your brainwashed parents about their culture/religious beliefs. Prople rarely CHOOSE culture or religion, they are born into it, even if they dont like it.

 

[Twoboxer]

the problem is, you cant chose which country you are born in, and what brainwashing dribble you have to hear from your brainwashed parents about their culture/religious beliefs. Prople rarely CHOOSE culture or religion, they are born into it, even if they dont like it.

Doesn't really matter, its what you are comfortable with as a person regardless of how you got there. And being born in a state/country doesn't mean you have to stay there.

BTW, it sounds like *you* were able to exercise free will What has convinced you that you know what's right *now*? or is it just the rest of us you are worried for lol?

 

[amk-aka-Phantom]

Doesn't really matter, its what you are comfortable with as a person regardless of how you got there. And being born in a state/country doesn't mean you have to stay there.

BTW, it sounds like *you* were able to exercise free will What has convinced you that you know what's right *now*? or is it just the rest of us you are worried for lol?

Umm... I'd like you to see to just move out of a country you don't like, especially if it's a freak religious tyranny like Saudi Arabia or stuck-up arranged marriage fanatics like South India. You can't. No money, and the society won't let you. I'm not sure if you're trolling or just stupid.

 

[4Ryan6]

That's enough of that!