News French Authorities Raided Nvidia's France Office

[Admin]

The Wall Street Journal has reported that the French Competition Authority has conducted a surprise raid on Nvidia's French offices.

French Authorities Raided Nvidia's France Office : Read more

 

[watzupken]

Anti competitive practices are not uncommon in a monopoly. In fact I will be shocked if they are clean. With regards to AI, I would think of it as first mover advantage for Nvidia. There is little need for anti competitive practices now given that competitors are just responding. I guess the raid may be due to complaints in the sector on unfair pricing due to the exorbitant price Nvidia is charging.

 

[brandonjclark]

EU: (watches NVidia stock rise)

NVidia: (Please don't look over here! Please)

EU: (notices sizable lack of tax "revenue"). Hey, NVidia! Sure is a big amount of money you have over there!

France: ....

EU: .....(looks at France)

France: Fine!

 

[bit_user]

EU: (notices sizable lack of tax "revenue"). Hey, NVidia! Sure is a big amount of money you have over there!

If it were about taxes, then that's what they'd have gone after. An anticompetitive practices case isn't the easiest thing to prove in court, so it wouldn't make sense to do that in lieu of pursuing a tax case.

Although I don't know the first thing about French or EU law, I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that they needed to show probable cause to get the warrant to do the pre-dawn raid. So, if there wasn't grounds for an anticomptetive practices case, then I don't think they'd be pursuing one.

 

[ezst036]

Meh.

These are just desperate greedy governments looking for an easy cash infusion. Realistically the French government is being way more anti-competitive than Nvidia is.

Especially in France, let's explore that for a second. They had those Yellow Vest protests going on not all that long ago and pension reform might bring it all back. They can't exactly raise any more taxes without it resulting in more people in the streets. So the next step, scapegoating!

If I were Nvidia I would close some offices in France and let those people go unemployed to cover these unnecessary costs being incurred by the French government.

 

[bit_user]

They can't exactly raise any more taxes without it resulting in more people in the streets.

What you're saying is the opposite of what they did. They've been on a path of trying to make the country more business-friendly, and it's cost them some goodwill with the public. To walk back on that now, would be utterly self-defeating.

If I were Nvidia I would close some offices in France and let those people go unemployed to cover these unnecessary costs being incurred by the French government.

That won't protect you from being prosecuted for any crimes you've already committed.

As far as minimizing future exposure, they presumably do a fair amount of business in France. Completely pulling out would be very costly to their bottom line. Furthermore, one of the most valuable things Nvidia has is its software ecosystem. If you take a chunk of the market and just deliver them to your competitors, they will help flesh out the software ecosystem of your competitors, which will also hurt you outside of France.

 

[TerryLaze]

Standard which hunt...
This article links to the actual government page on this topic.
The only reason they do the raids is because the market is dominated by too few players and that COULD hinder competition, so we better raid everybody that had any business with these companies just to make sure...

Cloud computing: the Autorité de la concurrence issues its market study on competition in the cloud sector

www.autoritedelaconcurrence.fr

The sector is dominated by three hyperscalers: Amazon Web Services (AWS), Google Cloud and Microsoft Azure, and represent 80% of the spending growth in public cloud infrastructures and applications in France in 2021. Amazon and Microsoft have captured 46 % and 17 % respectively of revenues from IaaS and PaaS services in 2021. Given their financial capacities and their digital ecosystems, these hyperscalers are in a position to hinder competition development.

 

[TheOtherOne]

Nothing to do with some behind the scenes shenanigans that may or may not produce things like this? 🤔🤫

Cyberpunk Phantom Liberty Runs 31% Faster on AMD GPUs in Linux Compared to Windows 11

Impressive performance differences detailed by a YouTuber

www.tomshardware.com

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Basically, the French Government looks at nVIDIA's giant pile of $$$ and declares that nVIDIA is "Guilty Until Proven Innocent".

Time to go on a fishing expedition!

Go RAID those nVIDIA Offices!

 

[purpleduggy]

Meh.

These are just desperate greedy governments looking for an easy cash infusion. Realistically the French government is being way more anti-competitive than Nvidia is.

Especially in France, let's explore that for a second. They had those Yellow Vest protests going on not all that long ago and pension reform might bring it all back. They can't exactly raise any more taxes without it resulting in more people in the streets. So the next step, scapegoating!

If I were Nvidia I would close some offices in France and let those people go unemployed to cover these unnecessary costs being incurred by the French government.

im gonna say no. its more to do with French public sector dependency on one single AI hardware company which happens through monopolization. nvidia impacts national security with their monopoly, so they need to be broken up and competitors boosted to create a situation where there is no single point of failure. if a competing nation infiltrated nvidia in a state of complete reliance on their hardware, it would be utter defeat. i expect the US and other countries will do the same to Nvidia soon. its like having fighter jets, but there is only one company making them. this is a very bad idea. single points of failure are massive risks. money has nothing to do with it. this is the real reason why the nvidia arm deal did not go through. there needs to be healthy competition from multiple companies if the hardware runs national security infrastructure. even just AMD is not enough there should be 5 other companies competing.

 

[aberkae]

First Nvidia's ARM deal gets blocked, ARM's ipo stock takes 14% hit and now this 🤔.

 

[Bluoper]

I don't think the French government would just fine nvidia, depending on the results if they find major issues they will likely try and split up nvidias french sector. They don't want their country's cloud networks all running on the same hardware, if there's an infiltration through nvidias hardware it would be gg to French national security.

 

[bit_user]

Basically, the French Government looks at nVIDIA's giant pile of $$$ and declares that nVIDIA is "Guilty Until Proven Innocent".

Time to go on a fishing expedition!

Go RAID those nVIDIA Offices!

Wow, what's with all of these type of comments? Most developed countries have an independent judiciary. You guys know that, right?

The government still has to prove their case in court. A big company can afford to hire good lawyers, making it anything but a fait acompli! Definitely, not the kind of thing you'd waste resources on pursuing, unless you thought you had a strong case.

 

[bit_user]

im gonna say no. its more to do with French public sector dependency on one single AI hardware company which happens through monopolization. nvidia impacts national security with their monopoly, so they need to be broken up and competitors boosted to create a situation where there is no single point of failure. if a competing nation infiltrated nvidia in a state of complete reliance on their hardware, it would be utter defeat. i expect the US and other countries will do the same to Nvidia soon.

I don't know French or EU law, but US law doesn't allow the government to arbitrarily break up monopolies, unless they prove their case in court that the company was abusing its market dominance and the court agrees to a remedy of splitting up the company (but, there are other remedies).

Just think about it, for a second. If a government would go around, breaking up companies that it decides are too big, the lawsuits by investors suing the government would be absolutely flying!

On the other hand, if they prove that competition laws were violated, then a court can order such a remedy and investors have no recourse - you can't sue a court, only appeal the case.

its like having fighter jets, but there is only one company making them. this is a very bad idea. single points of failure are massive risks. money has nothing to do with it. this is the real reason why the nvidia arm deal did not go through. there needs to be healthy competition from multiple companies if the hardware runs national security infrastructure. even just AMD is not enough there should be 5 other companies competing.

There are other ways to solve that problem, and the EU (and various European governments) are doing them. The main way is to fund your own companies and grow them up to compete.

 

[bit_user]

First Nvidia's ARM deal gets blocked, ARM's ipo stock takes 14% hit and now this 🤔.

ARM's IPO underperformed because ARM/Softbank got too greedy. It's not a conspiracy and it's got nothing to do with this.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Wow, what's with all of these type of comments? Most developed countries have an independent judiciary. You guys know that, right?

Doesn't stop the executive branch from going on "Fishing Expeditions".

The government still has to prove their case in court. A big company can afford to hire good lawyers, making it anything but a fait acompli! Definitely, not the kind of thing you'd waste resources on pursuing, unless you thought you had a strong case.

Still gives government with nearly endless amounts of $$$ plenty of opportunities to try again & again.

 

[bit_user]

Doesn't stop the executive branch from going on "Fishing Expeditions".

Limited resources tends to make them prioritize, and not waste them on cases they're unlikely to win.

Still gives government with nearly endless amounts of $$$ plenty of opportunities to try again & again.

Exactly which government has endless amounts of $$$? Surely not the French government!

...not to mention the obvious contradiction of trying to hit up a company for money, if you're already sitting on an endless pile of cash.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Limited resources tends to make them prioritize, and not waste them on cases they're unlikely to win.

Then why are they raiding nVIDIA in France?

They know that nVIDIA is a US Company, the French Branch Division is likely to be a tiny shell with barely the info they need.

Exactly which government has endless amounts of $$$? Surely not the French government!

The EU seems to have a endless supply, look at all the money they spend on their "Benefits" for their citizens?
I know the taxes are a bit crazy, but they do spend alot.

...not to mention the obvious contradiction of trying to hit up a company for money, if you're already sitting on an endless pile of cash.

That's how the piles of cash is endless, they hit up a company, find them guilty of something, take sad money or threaten them with not doing business in their country or other forms of fines / punishment.

 

[bit_user]

They know that nVIDIA is a US Company, the French Branch Division is likely to be a tiny shell with barely the info they need.

Jurisdiction. Without knowing the details of the case, it's hard to say whether the raid was justifiable.

That's how the piles of cash is endless, they hit up a company, find them guilty of something, take sad money or threaten them with not doing business in their country or other forms of fines / punishment.

Again, having an independent judiciary should make it possible for companies to abide by applicable laws, without undue fear of extortion by the government.

It seems like neither of us know enough about French corporate law to have a meaningful discussion about how that plays out in practice, so I suggest we drop the point and just see how this plays out in the news.

 

[Tom Sunday]

Basically, the French Government looks at nVIDIA's giant pile of $$$.....

Looks like the NVIDIA stock remained unfazed by these raiding developments. "The shares gained 1.5% to $430.89 per share at the close in NYC trading Thursday, bringing their year-to-date gain to 195%." Meanwhile of course poor 'chumps' like me and or enthusiast worldwide all still reeling with the price they still have to pay for any of the premium RTX cards. Reality at work!

 

[spongiemaster]

How much of Nvidia's global revenue comes from France? If France is fishing for a cash infusion, Nvidia should just leave. See how that works out for France.

 

[Kamen Rider Blade]

Looks like the NVIDIA stock remained unfazed by these raiding developments. "The shares gained 1.5% to $430.89 per share at the close in NYC trading Thursday, bringing their year-to-date gain to 195%." Meanwhile of course poor 'chumps' like me and or enthusiast worldwide all still reeling with the price they still have to pay for any of the premium RTX cards. Reality at work!

Vote with your wallets.

Go with Radeon if you want to stick it to nVIDIA.

 

[purpleduggy]

Vote with your wallets.

Go with Radeon if you want to stick it to nVIDIA.

ive been doing this all i can for years. nvidia might be the best, but i always buy amd because of bang for buck and finewine optimization. looking forward to their next rdna5 bangforbuck king (maybe 8600XT?). that will make nvidia drop the price on their rtx5060ti. I expect Nvidia will eventually abandon the gaming GPU market and fully focus on AI enterprise stuff (Gaming GPUs are a drop in the bucket compared to the massive profits they are making in Enterprise AI). and hand the consumer GPU market to AMD who is already running nearly all consoles with Vulkan API. I hope Intel Battlemage makes a massive push towards dropping gpu prices when it releases. Alchemist is getting better every day. I wish Qualcomm or Samsung could get into the Gaming GPU market and shake things up. We need far more competition.

 

[TerryLaze]

I hope Intel Battlemage makes a massive push towards dropping gpu prices when it releases.

Not going to happen because then the FTC and the EU would be all up in intel's business for anti competitive pricing.
Intel is forced to price the GPUs according to the current market prices.

 

[bit_user]

Not going to happen because then the FTC and the EU would be all up in intel's business for anti competitive pricing.
Intel is forced to price the GPUs according to the current market prices.

Since they're not a dominant player in that market, the only restriction that should apply is that they not sell their GPUs at or below cost. That would be considered "dumping", and could damage the market.