Question Fresh Windows 11 install - is it recommended wipe all HDD data at the same time ?

[madstylesnz]

Hi, I was wondering if it is better to wipe my entire hard drive when installing a new version of Windows or whether it doesn't make much difference to the performance if I just keep the files/programs intact?

Normally when I install a new version of Windows I would create a bootable USB with the Win install file and then when it asks me to install Windows it gives me the option to either keep the current files on C drive or wipe everything there and start afresh. When I upgraded from Win 10 to 11 the other day when I booted off the USB stick I did not get that option, it just installed Win 11 and kept all my files and installed programs as is.

I have an old custom built PC that is coming up to 6 years old but it is still performing well as it had powerful specs at the time I bought it. I notice that I seem to have inherited some problems I had with Win 10 where the taskbar freezes and I have to do a hard reboot to get it working again.

My understanding is that it is a good idea to completely wipe the C drive and install on a 'clean' hard drive as it is like getting a new PC and get rids of a lot of PC clutter/junk files that slow things down. Is this true or is this just an old wives tale?

 

[Aeacus]

Is this true or is this just an old wives tale?

It's true.

By making clean Win install (OS drive format), you'll start off with a clean slate, free of all software issues and malware too (except firmware rootkits).

But if you keep your data, it can house malware, that would mess up the new Win installation. Also, it may contain corrupt files that also can mess up the system.

All-in-all, it would be better to keep your personal data on 2nd physical drive, so that when you wipe (format) the OS drive, you won't loose your personal data. (Do disconnect all other drives before making clean Win install, since Win likes to put boot manager on 2nd drive, other than OS drive). Downside of clean Win installation is, that you need to install all your drivers and programs again. But that's part of the starting fresh and clean.

 

[madstylesnz]

It's true.

By making clean Win install (OS drive format), you'll start off with a clean slate, free of all software issues and malware too (except firmware rootkits).

But if you keep your data, it can house malware, that would mess up the new Win installation. Also, it may contain corrupt files that also can mess up the system.

All-in-all, it would be better to keep your personal data on 2nd physical drive, so that when you wipe (format) the OS drive, you won't loose your personal data. (Do disconnect all other drives before making clean Win install, since Win likes to put boot manager on 2nd drive, other than OS drive). Downside of clean Win installation is, that you need to install all your drivers and programs again. But that's part of the starting fresh and clean.

Ok thx, it's a bit of a hassle though to do it again as I've just gone through the whole install process. Would have been nice if Windows had asked me what I wanted to do.

 

[John Nemesh]

Yes, it's always best to start with a clean (preferably repartitioned!) drive! Take the opportunity to at least experiment with a Linux dual boot while you are at it.

 

[madstylesnz]

Yes, it's always best to start with a clean (preferably repartitioned!) drive! Take the opportunity to at least experiment with a Linux dual boot while you are at it.

Yeah I’m gonna have to do it, I’m getting the same problems I had before with Win 10. Easier to clear it all out anyway as my C drive is very full and I’ve backed up all I need.

Clean is good.

 

[John Nemesh]

Soon it will all be clean...

 

[USAFRet]

And ideally, you install the OS with only ONE drive physically connected.

How To - Windows 11 clean install tutorial

Windows 11 Clean install tutorial This tutorial is intended to help you, step by step, to perform a clean install of Windows 11, version 23H2 or newer but can be equally applied to earlier versions which may have some basic differences in the screens you see but will largely remain similar in...

forums.tomshardware.com

 

[madstylesnz]

And ideally, you install the OS with only ONE drive physically connected.

How To - Windows 11 clean install tutorial

Windows 11 Clean install tutorial This tutorial is intended to help you, step by step, to perform a clean install of Windows 11, version 23H2 or newer but can be equally applied to earlier versions which may have some basic differences in the screens you see but will largely remain similar in...

forums.tomshardware.com

How come?

 

[Aeacus]

How come?

Because Win installation likes to put boot manager on 2nd physical drive. For redundancy purposes (e.g when main/OS drive should become corrupted). But this feature has mayor downside. Meaning that when you remove the 2nd drive from the system (or drive gets corrupted), where boot manager is located, your OS will not boot.
And only fix is new, clean Win installation that creates new boot manager. You can not construct new boot manager out of the blue, keeping old installation.

Hence why to keep only 1 drive connected when installing Win, so that boot manager ends up on the same drive as where OS is.

 

[SkyNetRising]

Because Win installation likes to put boot manager on 2nd physical drive.
For redundancy purposes (e.g when main/OS drive should become corrupted).

It's not for redundancy purposes.
Simply - if you already have bootloader on existing drive, it doesn't get created on the new drive.

And only fix is new, clean Win installation that creates new boot manager.
You can not construct new boot manager out of the blue, keeping old installation.

This also is not true.
You can create bootloader manually yourself.
Process is not very complicated -

create a separate partition for bootloader (primary/active/ntfs for MBR or efi system/fat32 for GPT) and​

install bootloader files onto it with bcdboot command.​

 

[madstylesnz]

Because Win installation likes to put boot manager on 2nd physical drive. For redundancy purposes (e.g when main/OS drive should become corrupted). But this feature has mayor downside. Meaning that when you remove the 2nd drive from the system (or drive gets corrupted), where boot manager is located, your OS will not boot.
And only fix is new, clean Win installation that creates new boot manager. You can not construct new boot manager out of the blue, keeping old installation.

Hence why to keep only 1 drive connected when installing Win, so that boot manager ends up on the same drive as where OS is.

So by one drive do you mean the main C drive? I boot off a USB though to install the windows installation file.

 

[USAFRet]

So by one drive do you mean the main C drive? I boot off a USB though to install the windows installation file.

Yes, that is correct.

 

[johnbl]

Hi, I was wondering if it is better to wipe my entire hard drive when installing a new version of Windows or whether it doesn't make much difference to the performance if I just keep the files/programs intact?

Normally when I install a new version of Windows I would create a bootable USB with the Win install file and then when it asks me to install Windows it gives me the option to either keep the current files on C drive or wipe everything there and start afresh. When I upgraded from Win 10 to 11 the other day when I booted off the USB stick I did not get that option, it just installed Win 11 and kept all my files and installed programs as is.

I have an old custom built PC that is coming up to 6 years old but it is still performing well as it had powerful specs at the time I bought it. I notice that I seem to have inherited some problems I had with Win 10 where the taskbar freezes and I have to do a hard reboot to get it working again.

My understanding is that it is a good idea to completely wipe the C drive and install on a 'clean' hard drive as it is like getting a new PC and get rids of a lot of PC clutter/junk files that slow things down. Is this true or is this just an old wives tale?

note: it is good form to update the bios, ssd firmware, and cpu firmware before you wipe your system.

after the wipe, you go into bios, make the required changes
(turn off stuff you do not want or use) let the machine idle for a while to get the ssd to run its cleanup firmware.
boot and test your new bios ram timings then install windows, then the various driver updates from the motherboard vendor, (not the utilities) then the gpu driver updates and other 3rd party required drivers/updates.

many people do not update the bios and do not get the updated motherboard drivers that match their bios version.
note: there can also be firmware updates to audio devices, usb controller, mouse devices, cpu coolers, rbg light controllers. failure to update firmware can cause problems. like controls for RBG light settings on a mouse being sent to a cpu cooler controller. just makes a big mess.

 

[Aeacus]

it is good form to update the bios

Updating BIOS isn't something you can do on a whim. BIOS update, as such, is only viable when you know for a fact that newer BIOS fixes the specific issue you have with your PC. (E.g if i want to use Kaby Lake CPU with my Z170 chipset MoBo, i need to update my MoBo BIOS.) If there are no issues, there is no reason, what-so-ever, to update BIOS. Just because you "can" update BIOS doesn't mean that you "have to". Or in other words: "If it ain't broke - don't fix it."

many people do not update the bios

Most MoBos never get their BIOS updated and work fine until they are obsolete (e.g i'm running my MoBo with vanilla BIOS for the past 9 years now). Also, do note that when BIOS update would be interrupted for whatever reason (e.g power loss), MoBo will be bricked since PC won't run when MoBo has corrupt BIOS. And only fix is MoBo replacement. If lucky, one can roll back the BIOS update, if MoBo has that feature. Or use 2nd BIOS when MoBo has dual-BIOS feature. But these two redundancy features are rare and only found on high-end, very expensive MoBos.

 

[SkyNetRising]

after the wipe, you go into bios, make the required changes (turn off stuff you do not want or use)

Average user has zero understanding about "required" changes.

note: there can also be firmware updates to audio devices, usb controller, mouse devices, cpu coolers, rbg light controllers.

Most of these do not have firmware updates.
And average user will never have need to worry about this.

 

[johnbl]

consider the following:
System get set up 6 years ago, at that time the bios is current and the motherboard drivers are installed from the motherboard vendor, services are setup at that time and match the drivers and BIOS.
years go by, no BIOS updates are applied, custom services still match the drivers and BIOS interface. Microsoft update works around lack of BIOS updates by installing cpu microcode patches. It works pretty well (until various spec change, ie power management sleep state changes)

Now, the system is wiped and windows installed again. You do not have any custom motherboard drivers installed so microsoft installs generic drivers if they have them.
Plug and Play tries to find drivers for unknown devices and downloads them from microsoft catalog.

At this point you do not have cpu microcode patches applied. Old patches are moved into the bios, microsoft will apply the new cpu microcode patches if you do not have a cpu custom cpu microcode update installed.

At this time you will have a old bios, no custom drivers.
and generic services, and some cpu generic microcode patches from a generic windows cpu specific dll.
It might work pretty well but if you have a problem with a subsystem you would have to apply the motherboard driver for that system and you will need to update the bios since you will not have the driver that works with the 6 year old BIOS you had installed.

update the bios and motherboard drivers together for best effect. Especially, after a system wipe.

I mention firmware updates since these are often overlooked. I see lots of problems with service software being updated but the firmware not being updated that result in stack overflows and bugchecks.
(I am thinking about the various add on devices that have LED controlled via software. IE things like a mouse driver corrupting kernel heap and crashing other devices
see this for example of programs that conflict with icue
https://www.corsair.com/us/en/explorer/gamer/accessories/list-of-programs-known-to-conflict-with-corsair-icue/?utm_source=2003851&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_campaign=1498468_Main Page - Gaming INF/AMB&utm_content=Corsair&clickid=RpnR8kz4FxycRP9zCKzaBzojUksQWd24ExGE280&utm_coupon=&irgwc=1

even if you fail to update the bios, you should still go in and change any setting and change it back and save to rebuild the database that it sends to windows. If you update the bios, you should turn off devices in hardware that you do not use. for example consider the case of real tek motherboard audio. if you do not use it, windows plug and play will detect it and install a driver. All is good but for years the driver had a issue where it was responding to other drivers audio devices requests and would overflow the buffer on the second device you were actually using. Mostly on GPU that supported HDMI . It took like 7 years before they actually fixed the driver. Most people just blamed the crashing driver. Currently with system wipes and reinstalls I see a bunch of sleep issues due to generic old drivers being installed by PNP from the microsoft windows catalog. These old drivers do not know about the new sleep states and can sleep and not wake up.
(also, many audio headsets need firmware updates, due to various sleep issues and how headsets can put themself to sleep and wake themself up and have to wake the hub up also)

 

[Aeacus]

Now, the system is wiped and windows installed again. You do not have any custom motherboard drivers installed so microsoft installs generic drivers if they have them.
Plug and Play tries to find drivers for unknown devices and downloads them from microsoft catalog.

This would only apply when person doesn't install MoBo drivers 2nd time around.
I see no reason why not to install MoBo drivers after clean Win install. Or GPU drivers in that matter. Drivers are still installed after Win install.

Old patches are moved into the bios, microsoft will apply the new cpu microcode patches if you do not have a cpu custom cpu microcode update installed.

MoBo manufacturers do not remove old patches from newer MoBo driver versions. Since otherwise, that means MoBo manufacturers are relying on people to update BIOS as well. But MoBo manufacturers can not rely on that. Newest MoBo drivers still contain all previous patches the drivers had. Just like GPU drivers are (or any other hardware drivers in that matter).

Heck, any hardware that has firmware, which can be updated via their specific dedicated program (e.g Samsung SSDs via Samsung Magician or Corsair KBs via Corsair iCUE) - none of those brands are removing old driver patches from the software and are including them to the hardware firmware.

you would have to apply the motherboard driver for that system and you will need to update the bios since you will not have the driver that works with the 6 year old BIOS you had installed.

None of the MoBo drivers one can install, has specific BIOS version requirement. All MoBo drivers can be installed to any version of BIOS that MoBo has. Just like it is with GPU drivers. It doesn't matter which version BIOS GPU has, GPU drivers still work.

Here's an example; my MoBo BIOS versions,
link: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/Z170A-GAMING-M5/support#bios

The newest BIOS i can get, is from 2018. That's 7 years old.
Are you saying that if i were to wipe my system and install Win anew, my system should not work at all? Just because my BIOS is 7 years old and isn't compatible to the latest Windows updates?

 

[johnbl]

This would only apply when person doesn't install MoBo drivers 2nd time around.
I see no reason why not to install MoBo drivers after clean Win install. Or GPU drivers in that matter. Drivers are still installed after Win install.


MoBo manufacturers do not remove old patches from newer MoBo driver versions. Since otherwise, that means MoBo manufacturers are relying on people to update BIOS as well. But MoBo manufacturers can not rely on that. Newest MoBo drivers still contain all previous patches the drivers had. Just like GPU drivers are (or any other hardware drivers in that matter).

Heck, any hardware that has firmware, which can be updated via their specific dedicated program (e.g Samsung SSDs via Samsung Magician or Corsair KBs via Corsair iCUE) - none of those brands are removing old driver patches from the software and are including them to the hardware firmware.


None of the MoBo drivers one can install, has specific BIOS version requirement. All MoBo drivers can be installed to any version of BIOS that MoBo has. Just like it is with GPU drivers. It doesn't matter which version BIOS GPU has, GPU drivers still work.

Here's an example; my MoBo BIOS versions,
link: https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/Z170A-GAMING-M5/support#bios

The newest BIOS i can get, is from 2018. That's 7 years old.
Are you saying that if i were to wipe my system and install Win anew, my system should not work at all? Just because my BIOS is 7 years old and isn't compatible to the latest Windows updates?

just look at your machine, your motherboard came out in 2015 look at all the bios fixes until the motherboard vendor stopped its updates: (13) BIOS updates, most would not effect a correctly running system if the system was static and working at the time. All I am saying is the for the best outcome you should update the bios, drivers and firmware.

windows is starting to do automatic bios updates and have also made a firmware update system that can be used with windows updates. (since you are correct that people often never update firmware/bios and vendors would rather sell you a new system every 3 years than provide bios and driver updates)
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most people would only notice the usb 2 sleep problems and would assume it is a windows bug. windows generic drivers for usb may not work around this problem and you would have to disable the sleep function for the device if you did not update the BIOS.
refering to the bios fix for:
Improve USB 2.0 device can not work properly after resume from S3 mode

look at another one of your machines bios bugs:
When USB and Audio controller are disabled and then system would not able to work properly.



------
Updated BIOS Code.- Fixed WHQL Issue.- Improved NVME compatibility.
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- Updated BIOS code. - Updated GOP driver and VBIOS. - Enhanced PXE function. - Improved VGA compatibility. - Improved memory compatibility.
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- Updated VBIOS and GOP Driver.- Improved memory compatibility.- Improved PCI-E compatibility.
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- Update- Improved PCIE compatibility.- Improved SAMSUNG 950 Pro NVME compatibility.- Updated Microcode.- Enhanced Game Boost function.- Updated VBIOS and GOP.- Improved memory compatibility.d VBIOS and GOP Driver.- Updated CPU Microcode.- When USB and Audio controller are disabled and then system would not able to work properly .- Improved memory compatibility.
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- Optimized Hynix A-die Memory- Improved memory compatibility.- Patched Ghost problem.- Updated CPU microcode(0x7C).- Improved PCIe SSD compatibility.
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- Updated RC 1.9.0- Updated VBIOS and GOP.- Improved Intel 750 NVME compatibility.- Improved memory compatibility.
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- Supported next generation new Intel CPU.
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- Enhanced M.2 Genie function.- Improved Board Explorer function.- Improved NVME device compatibility.- Updated VBIOS and GOP.- Support multi graphic cards
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- Improved NVME device compatibility.- Improved memory compatibility problem.
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- Update micro code.- Improved USB device compatibility.- Improved Windows 10 RS2 stability.
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Improve NVME compatibility.- Update micro code.- Improve USB 2.0 device can not work properly after resume from S3 mode.- Improve memory compatibility.- Update Intel ME for security vulnerabilities
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Fix MSI Clutch GM60/GM70 mouse cursor jump in windows and BIOS when DPI set over 1000Mhz.- Update Intel Micro code for security vulnerabilities
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Improved USB compatibility.- Update Intel Micro code for security vulnerabilities
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[USAFRet]

Guys...we are starting to go far afield of what the OP asked.

Is a full BIOS update needed?
Sometimes, yes.