krobjack :
@Somebodyspecial:Wow, you're so enlightened. There is a fine line between making a profit and raping consumers. Nvidia loves the latter. You sound like a fanboy who will defend them at all cost (literally) though, so I won't waste any more time here.
You're confused. I said stop asking AMD to go bankrupt. I want them to live, you apparently agree with driving them into the ground. AMD needs to start raping you I guess, because your idea of a fine line is losing them billions. Raping in your context sounds like finally making some profits...LOL.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1723539/report-amd-volcanic-islands-gpus-launching-october-8000-branding/page-2.html#11142045
You can read me saying keep them alive over an over in here. It's comic every time someone says anything BAD about AMD they're labeled a fanboy. I want AMD to make money. You don't seem to get it.
http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/id-1767523/amd-settle-forever-program-finally-announced.html#11357001
I advocate keeping them alive, no free games, and AMD charging more. I can keep listing my AMD defense posts, but it doesn't matter to guys like you who are so far AMD fanboy they are incapable of reading anything truthful about amd's products, or finances without freaking out. But you're accusing me of being a fanboy (for what wanting NV to make more money? for wanting AMD to quit losing money? that makes no sense)...LOL. I own a radeon 5850 currently BTW (though not for much longer I'd guess).
Both sides need to charge more or they won't be able to afford R&D. What part of that is confusing or fanboy for either side? I want to get BETTER cards yearly. I don't want phase 1, 2 ,3 drivers next year (this year either). Profits are needed to avoid this and AMD can't seem to get any for 10yrs. You can't fix all the problems if they don't make any money right? What part of the statement "NV hasn't made as much as 2007" did you not get? If they are raping you, shouldn't they be making more money at some point in the last 6 years than 2007? Yes, I'm enlightened, if that's what you call someone looking at balance sheets and realizing companies making NOTHING go bankrupt. Correction from before after a quick check of that 10yr summary page, they have lost 7Billion+. Acknowledging reality isn't rocket science.
Is ~11.5% profit raping you? 4.1B revenue for NV, 460mil profit. Get a clue. Learn how to read a balance sheet before commenting on financial details of companies or ragging on pricing. There is no raping going on here. For that you need to look at MS, Apple, Intel etc. Do you realize AMD has a -13.5% profit margin? You seem to be incapable of handling the truth. AMD as a business SUCKS. I'm not talking if you like them or not, I'm talking do they make MONEY?!?! You're arguing to get NV into the same boat...LOL. I want them both to NOT suck. I'm
NOT willing to pay ANY cost; you are blowing things out of proportion as clearly shown by their balance sheets. Neither is making a killing and one is getting severely KILLED.
You don't seem to be aware AMD has sold their fabs.
Sold their land.
Given up the cpu race.
Sold their soc/handest crap ages ago to Qcom (now having to make another...LOL) for $65mil if memory serves. How dumb was that in 2009?
Have multi-phase driver fixes now
Launch products that don't perform as advertised until fixed by others (Hawaii, see tomshardware fiasco with fans)
Have lost 7Billion in 10yrs
Company value tanked over 10yrs
9yrs ago the stock was $42 with 1/2 the shares outstanding that they have now. Now that same stock is $4.
Market cap was 14Billion, now 3Billion. Do you know what it means to dilute your shares? 723mil outstanding now vs. 350mil 10yrs ago. WOW that =failure on a massive scale.
Freesync (vapor not even planned to market product) vs. Gsync (real, here now, working in GAMES).
Billions in debt. Debt to equity 4.72. NV=ZERO. I could keep going...When will it be OK for AMD to make some money in your mind? When is it OK for them to raise pricing which might make some profits? Losing $7 Billion in 10yrs is bad isn't it? But you'd argue they are pricing their stuff correctly?...LOL. Being your friend is KILLING AMD!
How ignorant do you have to be to think AMD's doing great? Considering their losses are free games great for them? Low prices are great? Phase3 drivers great (phase2 doesn't address dx9 etc)? I'm trying really hard not to call you a complete idiot but people like you don't make it easy. Does AMD have to go bankrupt before people like you understand what people like me are saying here?
How much profit can a company make before they make your RAPIST list? NV barely makes 10% net. What percent profit can a company have in your "FINE LINE" fantasy figured life? Come back when you land on planet reality. I am a FANBOY of my favorite companies making MONEY (and even the ones I don't like making money) so I can get new excellent future products from them or their competition. I can choose not to pay for the 50K 105in monitor, but still love the fact that it eventually leads to a 4K product I can afford. Thank god for people who can buy this 1st adopter crap or we'd never get it. Thank god for profits, or they'd never risk making anything new or cool.
Even Intel can't keep up with R&D demands now (and they only have 18% net so not as evil as 60% margins seem to suggest either). Hence the AZ fab hold. It's pretty sad when you build a building, but leave it empty right? Not good is it? How many jobs do you think that move cost? At some point you have to realize if you can't afford the crap we're discussing I guess you need a better job.

The companies can't really charge much less and continue to innovate because that takes profits right? You see a sticker price and think that's all there is to it, they're all just evil because I'm too broke to afford it...LOL No, you just don't understand the concept of how to run a business that actually makes money. $20 says your a democrat. Everyone owes you, we need to pay our share, spread the wealth so nobody actually has REAL WEALTH...ROFL. Markets set prices, companies really don't. If the price sucks, nobody buys and the price drops. If it wasn't for people chasing fake coins (all digital currency I'd say), AMD would have had a VERY bad xmas as nobody in their right mind would have bought REF cards for gaming (without being willing to toss the warranty and fix them - which miners surely do - but I wouldn't at $400+). So while I think mining is stupid, I'm glad someone is betting like it's vegas and buying AMD cards right and left.
The only company on the planet I'd actually say is REALLY ripping us off is Apple & maybe samsung too at this point. But if it wasn't for them would we have the current fab wars speeding up or SLOWING down? But I don't hate these two for making money (great business people, like BillG even if I hate their current products, he's a great businessman), and can just ignore their overpriced products and be happy someone else has the cash to pay them so we get more innovation. If apple hadn't created a mini phone craze (which in turn causes google's android responses, samsung responses etc,) we wouldn't be seeing an ARM/Intel cpu war coming up and would be facing WINTEL and windows 8 like crap from monopoly dominance for another 10 years. Now win9 shaping up to be a win7/xp again. Apple has created some great stuff and caused even more to be created by others, even if I think they're pricks I can see this and admire it a bit.
Are there any companies that are actually making profits that you do NOT think are raping you? I mean you drew the line on NV at 11.5%. So how broke does someone have to be for you to like them? AMD broke? When companies don't make money, they don't hire more people, and we have crap employment/economy. If the rich weren't rich, who would fund all our cool crap?
I'm not wasting your time, you sir are wasting mine. But I'm posting this anyway, in the hopes there will be FEWER people who think like you in the future.
Thanks for acknowledging how enlightened I am though
😉 It's the only thing you [sort of] got right in your statement. WOW, you're so ignorant (about how business actually works).