Gaea's Blessing / Foster

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I'm toying with a Blessing/Foster deck and have a few questions
regarding how it interacts with some other cards...

Gaea's Blessing
Sorcery,  1G
Target player shuffles up to three target cards from his or her
graveyard into his or her library.Draw a card. When Gaea’s Blessing
is put into your graveyard from your library, shuffle your graveyard
into your library.


Foster
Enchantment,  2GG
Whenever a creature you control is put into a graveyard, you may pay
1. If you do, reveal cards from the top of your library until you
reveal a creature card. Put that card into your hand and the rest into
your graveyard.


Pedantic Learning
Enchantment,  UU
Whenever a land card is put into your graveyard from your library, you
may pay 1. If you do, draw a card.


Razormane Masticore
Artifact Creature, 5; 5/5
First strike At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice Razormane
Masticore unless you discard a card from your hand. At the beginning
of your draw step, you may have Razormane Masticore deal 3 damage to
target creature.


Question #1. I activate Foster and Gaea's Blessing is among the cards
revealed as I look for a creature card. A number of land cards also
revealed. When all these cards go to the grave I assume that I can
order the triggered events from Blessing and Pedantic Learning such
that I can pay X to draw X cards (where X is equal to or less than #
of lands put into grave). I also assume that I can't arrange the
timing such that I could pay for them one at a time. If I can, please
let me know how.

Question #2. Let's assume I have a Masticore out and I don't wish to
(or can't) pay the upkeep. Masticore goes to grave and I activate
Foster. If the next creature revealed is another Masticore, am I
still at "beginning of upkeep" and subject to the 2nd Masticore's
discard requirement?

Question #3. Strategy question. Is there any general agreement as to
which Masticore (Razormane or the original) is a better creature?

Terry

 

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Terry Detrie <detrie@mindspring.com> wrote:
>I'm toying with a Blessing/Foster deck and have a few questions
>regarding how it interacts with some other cards...
>
>Gaea's Blessing >Sorcery,  1G
>Target player shuffles up to three target cards from his or her
>graveyard into his or her library.Draw a card. / When ~
>is put into your graveyard from your library, shuffle your graveyard
>into your library.
>
>
>Foster >Enchantment,  2GG
>Whenever a creature you control is put into a graveyard, you may pay
>1. If you do, reveal cards from the top of your library until you
>reveal a creature card. Put that card into your hand and the rest into
>your graveyard.

If you put Blessing into the graveyard using Foster, it will trigger; its
triggered ability will go onto the stack after -all- the cards from that
invocation of Foster are in the graveyard (and the creature card is in your
hand). When it resolves, your entire graveyard, including the GB and any
other cards that went to the graveyard with it, gets shuffled back into your
library.

>Pedantic Learning
>Enchantment,  UU
>Whenever a land card is put into your graveyard from your library, you
>may pay 1. If you do, draw a card.

Triggers once per land card "milled" through Foster; thus, if you Foster and
end up putting four land cards, two artifact cards, and an enchantment card
into your graveyard (and a creature card into your hand), this triggers four
times and puts four copies of its ability on the stack. They resolve
separately; for each one you get to choose to not pay, or to pay 1. If you
pay, you draw a card.

If this triggers off the same use of Foster as GB, you get to order them on
the stack as you like, and PROBABLY will want to put the GB triggered ability
on on top, to shuffle cards in before you decide whether to pay-and-draw. But
you're not forced to order them that way.

>Razormane Masticore
>Artifact Creature, 5; 5/5
>First strike At the beginning of your upkeep, sacrifice Razormane
>Masticore unless you discard a card from your hand. At the beginning
>of your draw step, you may have Razormane Masticore deal 3 damage to
>target creature.

Discarding GB doesn't trigger it; only "milling" it - moving it to your
graveyard straight from your library - does. Sacrificing the Masticore DOES
trigger Foster, but discarding because of it does not.

>Question #1. I activate Foster and Gaea's Blessing is among the cards
>revealed as I look for a creature card. A number of land cards also
>revealed. When all these cards go to the grave I assume that I can
>order the triggered events from Blessing and Pedantic Learning such
>that I can pay X to draw X cards (where X is equal to or less than #
>of lands put into grave).

Almost. Such that you can, X times, pay 1 to draw 1 card.

> I also assume that I can't arrange the
>timing such that I could pay for them one at a time. If I can, please
>let me know how.

You -must- arrange them so as to pay one at a time; you don't have any other
choice. PL doesn't say "Whenever any number of land cards are put into your
graveyard from your library, you may pay X, where X is at most equal to the
number of land cards moved this way. If you do, draw X cards.". It triggers
once per land card, not once per event-in-which-some-land-cards-got-milled.
(Compare its wording with that on Well of Lost Dreams...)

>Question #2. Let's assume I have a Masticore out and I don't wish to
>(or can't) pay the upkeep. Masticore goes to grave and I activate
>Foster. If the next creature revealed is another Masticore, am I
>still at "beginning of upkeep" and subject to the 2nd Masticore's
>discard requirement?

No; you are long past "beginning of upkeep" at this time. The Razormane
Masticore's ability (I'm assuming here you're talking about _that_ card,
since it's the one you pasted above; "Masticore" is a different card, though
it also has at-the-beginnng-of-your-upkeep triggered ability) _triggers_
as your upkeep starts. By the time it gets to go onto the stack at all,
you're ALREADY past "beginning of upkeep"; NOTHING can actually be done
as an action at that point in time. The RM ability resolves _during_ your
upkeep, and if you sac it at that time and trigger Foster, that triggered
ability ALSO goes on the stack and waits to resolve. By the time it CAN
resolve, we're at LEAST four passes past the beginning of upkeep, and it's
also, if you'll notice, going to put the card into your HAND, not into play.
Even if you can cast that creature spell any time you could play an instant
- say a Vedalken Orrery is out - you STILL have another pair of passes before
it can resolve and come into play. And we're now at least six passes past
the beginning of upkeep, way too late for any "at the beginning of your upkeep"
ability this new creature may have to trigger.

>Question #3. Strategy question. Is there any general agreement as to
>which Masticore (Razormane or the original) is a better creature?

Dunno.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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> Question #1. I activate Foster and Gaea's Blessing is among the cards
> revealed as I look for a creature card. A number of land cards also
> revealed. When all these cards go to the grave I assume that I can
> order the triggered events from Blessing and Pedantic Learning such
> that I can pay X to draw X cards (where X is equal to or less than #
> of lands put into grave). I also assume that I can't arrange the
> timing such that I could pay for them one at a time. If I can, please
> let me know how.

All the cards that are put in the graveyard by Foster go there
simultaneously, so yes you get to choose what order the triggers from
Pedantic Learning and Gaea's Blessing go on the stack. Though even if your
Blessing triggers and removes the lands from the graveyard before the
Pedantic triggers have resolved, the triggers will stay on the stack so the
order doesn't matter much. I don't quite understand what you mean by paying
one at a time though... once you've got the triggers arranged to your
liking, each one will resolve one by one, so you will most definitely be
paying for them one at a time. You don't get all the Pedantic triggers
stuffed into one big trigger, which may be what you're thinking.

> Question #2. Let's assume I have a Masticore out and I don't wish to
> (or can't) pay the upkeep. Masticore goes to grave and I activate
> Foster. If the next creature revealed is another Masticore, am I
> still at "beginning of upkeep" and subject to the 2nd Masticore's
> discard requirement?

No, beginning of upkeep is just the brief moment when your upkeep
starts. Anything that happens later in your upkeep is not in the beginning
anymore, so the new Masticore won't require any upkeep payments until your
next turn.

> Question #3. Strategy question. Is there any general agreement as to
> which Masticore (Razormane or the original) is a better creature?

Most of the time I'd rather have the original one. The original can chew
up weenies quickly and is mostly safe from being destroyed. The new one can
shoot stuff for free, but the lack of regeneration make the original one
better to my mind. Both are very good creatures though, of course.

 

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Chris Wiegert <cwiegert@telus.net> wrote:
> All the cards that are put in the graveyard by Foster go there
>simultaneously, so yes you get to choose what order the triggers from
>Pedantic Learning and Gaea's Blessing go on the stack. Though even if your
>Blessing triggers and removes the lands from the graveyard before the
>Pedantic triggers have resolved, the triggers will stay on the stack so the
>order doesn't matter much.

It does if the library doesn't have enough cards for you to draw them all,
without the Blessing shuffling things back in. If the Blessing shuffles stuff
in first, and nothing else interferes, then you'll have enough cards in the
library to draw for all of the Pedantic Learning abilities, if you want.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

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Terry Detrie sez:


<<
>
>Question #1. I activate Foster and Gaea's Blessing is among the cards
>revealed as I look for a creature card. A number of land cards also
>revealed. When all these cards go to the grave I assume that I can
>order the triggered events from Blessing and Pedantic Learning such
>that I can pay X to draw X cards (where X is equal to or less than #
>of lands put into grave). I also assume that I can't arrange the
>timing such that I could pay for them one at a time. If I can, please
>let me know how.
>
>>

I believe you assume correctly. Those lands went to your graveyard, and the
Pedantic Learning triggered off of that. So did the Blessing. You can stack
'em any way you want, since they all triggered during the resolution of Foster.
As for your second question: Not only CAN you arrange the timing that way,
you MUST arrange the timing that way. Pedantic Learning says "Whenever A land
card is put into your graveyard from your library, you may pay ONE MANA. If
you do, draw A card." Each resolves separately. You may pay mana up to the
number of land cards that land in your graveyard and draw that many cards. You
can pay 0, or you can pay for all of them, or you can pay for any number in
between.

<<
>Question #2. Let's assume I have a Masticore out and I don't wish to
>(or can't) pay the upkeep. Masticore goes to grave and I activate
>Foster. If the next creature revealed is another Masticore, am I
>still at "beginning of upkeep" and subject to the 2nd Masticore's
>discard requirement?
>>

Note that this answer is the same for both Masticore and Razormane Masticore.

And the answer is, no you're not in the beginning of your upkeep anymore, and
the 2nd Masticore's BoU-ability will not trigger.

<<
>Question #3. Strategy question. Is there any general agreement as to
>which Masticore (Razormane or the original) is a better creature?
>>

Easy. The OG (that is, the original) is better for two reasons:

1. Controllability of its damage ability. RM's triggers in your draw step,
and it's hindered by that, even though it costs nothing and does 3 damage. The
flexibility of activating the original's ability at any time more than makes up
for having to pay 6 mana to do the same amount of damage.

2. Regeneration. RM may have +1/+1 over the original, but the original is
nigh on indestructible with the right deck.


----
If [Michael Moore] makes a mistake in [F 9/11], it's not that he's careless
with the facts ... It's that he suggests Bush is the cause of our problems,
when, in fact, Bush is just the result.
--The Libertarian Lessons of Fahrenheit 9/11

 

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Andy Jakcsy <djaxmann@aol.computer> wrote:
>I believe you assume correctly. Those lands went to your graveyard, and the
>Pedantic Learning triggered off of that. So did the Blessing.

Nitpick:

> You can stack 'em any way you want,

- yes -

>since they all triggered during the resolution of Foster.

no, "since you controlled both sources each time they triggered".

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.