Gamers say "There's No point to conroe"

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
ok how bout this... i tell them the best possible system, then, tell em they don't need it and tell them what they do need, then let them make the decision for themselves. Like i said before after i tell them they don't need it, i don't care if they waste their money and buy it anyway.
 
... MOST ppl don't replace their computers every year. Most ppl wait like 3 years until they upgrade to a new rig.

Because of that, they want to get something that lasts. Sure Conroe is overkill right now, but then what new technology becomes the standard right away? That would be retarded.

I remember 3 years ago, I bought my 3.06 GHz P4 with HT and it was extreme overkill. Now it gets owned regularly. Sure it can browse the internet and do word processing, but even a p3 can still do that.

Not everyone is looking for the best value right now. Not all of us are constantly upgrading their parts to keep up with the times. You have to see further than that. For some people, paying $2000 now is worth it if they don't have to think about upgrading for 2-3 years.
 
... MOST ppl don't replace their computers every year. Most ppl wait like 3 years until they upgrade to a new rig.

Because of that, they want to get something that lasts. Sure Conroe is overkill right now, but then what new technology becomes the standard right away? That would be retarded.

I remember 3 years ago, I bought my 3.06 GHz P4 with HT and it was extreme overkill. Now it gets owned regularly. Sure it can browse the internet and do word processing, but even a p3 can still do that.

Not everyone is looking for the best value right now. Not all of us are constantly upgrading their parts to keep up with the times. You have to see further than that. For some people, paying $2000 now is worth it if they don't have to think about upgrading for 2-3 years.

Tell me about it... i've got a 9 year old p2 8O

But now i'm buying a whole new rig for lots of monye, BUT, i took into consideration that as you go up in performance, the price inflates faster. So, i'm getting a 4600 EE and then later like maybe a year and a half or so, get a new video card and cpu, that will hopefully just drop into my mobo.


Anyway i'm not going to argue any more because what people should do and what they actually do are 2 different things. I guess all we can do is give our advice and hope they follow it 🙁
 
The only reason AMD and retailers droped the A64 & X2 prices was in response to Conroe. . We're in a price war right now, so waiting, even a week may save cash, but sooner or later, you're going to have to buy.

Actually, does not look as typical price war to me - at the moment, Intel has its high-margin parts (Core2), while AMD reduced prices in order to be able to compete with Intel's low-end parts. Sure, Intel has some obsolete stock to sell, but I guess that netburst price reduction would have to come with Core2 anyway.

Mirek

AMD has lowered the prices of its CPUs accross the board, but neither by a fixed or linear margin. The prices on their high end FX62 have dropped about $300 (depending which e tailer you look at) while prices on the lower end (A64) in some cases, havent changed. Is $799 a competative price for a high end CPU? If you look purely at names i.e FX62 @ $799 vs E6800EE @ $1190 ya the FX 62 is a great deal. But when you consider equivelent performance, i.e the FX 62 @ $799 vs the E6600 @ $350, well, not so much.

The interesting thing is, with the release of core 2, Intel instantly took AMDs high end proccessors and made them mid range and the AMD mid range CPUs are now low end. The low end CPUs? Computer show bargain bin fodder. So, if you want to argue that its not a price war and that AMD mearly adjusted the prices of its CPU to proerly reflect the drop in performance class, well, I suppose thats an arguable point.


Peace
 
I have something against any thread title which takes the form "[Insert large group of people here] say/think/believe/are of the opinion that [insert pointless, attention grabbing rubbish here]."

One guy is not "Gamers". Gamers expouse their opinions through typing and gaming, not actually using their mouths. And if there's "No point" to anything, it's this thread.

A couple of ideas for a better title would be :
CorvetteGuy believes there's no point to Conroe due to some serious X2 wub.
Gamers with any sort of budget should say no to premium CPUs (example #1, FX62) and spend the saved cash on GPU(s).

Synergy6
 
I agree that high end cpu's arent a nessesity, but when did anyone say "Nah, dont got for the x2 4800, stick with the D 820"??

NEVER!!!!

Stop spreading FUD
live news flash :!: more emotion on a bs topic :!: outbursts abound in a multitude of regressed fashions :!: news at ten

What are you guys tonight? The fun police? :)

BM hasnt been posting anything of consequence today (maybe he finally unglued himself from his keyboard and went out side) 9 inch hasent headlined us today (maybe he got banned again) and MMM hasnt been around under any of his puppets. No fun there.
Now that enough Core 2's are out and in the hands of real people, the bench marks have been verified and all the paper launch BS is dying off. No fun there
The only other "fun" thread in the forum todays got locked (who knows why) so this thread has been the fun AND YOU WANT TO SPOIL IT???
Shame on you! :wink:


Peace
Oh the shame of bieng part of the fun police 😳
tonight on news channel six ;more pointless banter on atopic called,"theres no point to conroe"
well have an analyst with us tonight from a$$hole technologies.
vern ;does this post carry any weight for the amd camp?
a$$;"nahhh dis guys a freekin mook,in joisey dat means hes a friggen flamin fanboy.
Vern ;wow that a lot of F's
a$$;hey,i got more where dat came from
Vern; so you think gamers prefer the lower performing amd chip?
a$$:😱nly da friggen blind and friggen lost,our engineer joey baggodonuts ,hes gonna be commin in to straighten dis mess out,wit me.
hey there he is
"hey joey cmon ovah heah.

:lol: :lol: :lol: Nice

Da, Comrade ze Fun Polizei haff spoken :wink:

Peace
 
The interesting thing is, with the release of core 2, Intel instantly took AMDs high end proccessors and made them mid range and the AMD mid range CPUs are now low end. The low end CPUs? Computer show bargain bin fodder. So, if you want to argue that its not a price war and that AMD mearly adjusted the prices of its CPU to proerly reflect the drop in performance class, well, I suppose thats an arguable point.


Peace

Yeah, C2D release basically re-adjusted the market and the scaling, things are in huge flux right now and will take several more months before it all settles down. No doubt people are looking at the new X2 prices and using this as a good buying opportunity.

AMD will sell a lot of processors as a result, in fact we are beginning to see the pains of the capacity constraints on dual core at 90 nm. It will be interesting to see what happens to AMD's ASPs as a result.

Jack

THAT's what i've been saying the whole time and you guys called me an idiot. I said the lower prices expose AMD to more normal people than ever before. :?
 
I've been looking in some other forums from different places, and unlike here where conroe is all the craze, they couldn't care less. Its not just conroe they don't care about, its almost any high end processor. The common theme is why pay for an x6800 or FX-62 when i can get a x2 3800, 4200, or e6300 and get the same results in the game or close to it for a fifth of the price? They also acknowledge how faster cpu's help people with CAD, and stuff like that, but since most people don't do that there is no point. It seems to me that people on this forum are somewhat "misguided" for recommending such highend cpu's for gaming, or even buying them themselves. I also think that conroe, although not the case here, could benifit AMD buy lowering prices and giving more exposure of AMD to normal people. I know you will also say that the e6300 can overclock past an FX-62, but in response to that, people arn't willing to pay the higher price for that cpu, nor the very expensive motherboard required to overclock like that. They also seem to like the idea of the new EE chips from AMD, and disregard C2D's slighty higher power consumption, and performance. AMD has also respinded to this with the new x2 3600, and i think it will catch on. Anway i think this will benifit AMD because by the time we need chips like the x6800 and FX-62 to run all games on high settings, AMD will have the crown back and will maybe have all price points covered, plus additional exposure to normal consumers. I see 30% marketshare in the not too distant furture 8)

There is a lot of truth to this as spending money on dual GPU setup gains more gamming preformance than placing about the same money on a high cost CPU and only 1 GPU. The mid range CPU's, E6600 or X2 5000+, would be the best CPU to get with a dual GPU setup. I wouldn't buy the E6300, the X2 3800+, or the X2 4200+ unless to OC but thats just me. For a good life out of a CPU it needs to be mid range atleast. You are kind of correct on Intels mobo but only at the low end as the E6600 and higher performance CPU's make up for the higher cost.
 
[/quote]THAT's what i've been saying the whole time and you guys called me an idiot. I said the lower prices expose AMD to more normal people than ever before.
I agree 100%, only the abnormal people like the ones in this forum were the ones exposed to AMD before, now we will have normal folks trying AMD for the first time. It maybe a revolution.

Sorry for the sarcasim but this was about the most stupid statement which I have seen in this forum. There is a reason why someone will be called an idiot.
 
The interesting thing is, with the release of core 2, Intel instantly took AMDs high end proccessors and made them mid range and the AMD mid range CPUs are now low end. The low end CPUs? Computer show bargain bin fodder. So, if you want to argue that its not a price war and that AMD mearly adjusted the prices of its CPU to proerly reflect the drop in performance class, well, I suppose thats an arguable point.


Peace

Yeah, C2D release basically re-adjusted the market and the scaling, things are in huge flux right now and will take several more months before it all settles down. No doubt people are looking at the new X2 prices and using this as a good buying opportunity.

AMD will sell a lot of processors as a result, in fact we are beginning to see the pains of the capacity constraints on dual core at 90 nm. It will be interesting to see what happens to AMD's ASPs as a result.

Jack

THAT's what i've been saying the whole time and you guys called me an idiot. I said the lower prices expose AMD to more normal people than ever before. :?


No, what you said was:

I've been looking in some other forums from different places, and unlike here where conroe is all the craze, they couldn't care less. Its not just conroe they don't care about, its almost any high end processor. The common theme is why pay for an x6800 or FX-62 when i can get a x2 3800, 4200, or e6300 and get the same results in the game or close to it for a fifth of the price? They also acknowledge how faster cpu's help people with CAD, and stuff like that, but since most people don't do that there is no point. It seems to me that people on this forum are somewhat "misguided" for recommending such highend cpu's for gaming, or even buying them themselves. I also think that conroe, although not the case here, could benifit AMD buy lowering prices and giving more exposure of AMD to normal people. I know you will also say that the e6300 can overclock past an FX-62, but in response to that, people arn't willing to pay the higher price for that cpu, nor the very expensive motherboard required to overclock like that. They also seem to like the idea of the new EE chips from AMD, and disregard C2D's slighty higher power consumption, and performance. AMD has also respinded to this with the new x2 3600, and i think it will catch on. Anway i think this will benifit AMD because by the time we need chips like the x6800 and FX-62 to run all games on high settings, AMD will have the crown back and will maybe have all price points covered, plus additional exposure to normal consumers. I see 30% marketshare in the not too distant furture


Note, you said "expose AMD to more people than ever".
Corevetteguy, Ive gotta tell ya, thats an extremely biased comment. Very MMMish -- "....and the truth shall be known and AMD shall rule the world" kinda stuff.

Again, I havent seen a lot of people saying buy the FX or the EE. Ive seen people here saying buy E6600, E6400, X24600 or X24600. If someone wants the fastest CPU out there, its the EE, if someone wants the best bargain, for the moment, its the E6600, (and only by a narrow margin)
AMD's are still fine processors, the only people calling them junk are, well lets say they're uninformed. Dont waste time worrying about those folks. Worry about yourself and why your getting flamed.

Your getting flamed because:
1) The threads title was infamatory.
2) What gamers, where? Links??? evidence???
3) You said Conroe---you did not say "AMD & Intel high end proccessors"
4) You were being presumptive. The whole "everyone is saying..." thing.
5) The topic falls into the AMD fanboy catagory of "well uh, Conroes too fast, people dont need than much speed so theres no point to buying it"

Sorry man, just the way it comes off.

If you dont want to get flamed, you need to remember, its not about how you think something appears, its about other peoples perspectives. When you write something, think about how other people will view it and adjust the wording so as not to inflame them. Unless you're trying to inflame them. :wink:


Peace
 
The interesting thing is, with the release of core 2, Intel instantly took AMDs high end proccessors and made them mid range and the AMD mid range CPUs are now low end. The low end CPUs? Computer show bargain bin fodder. So, if you want to argue that its not a price war and that AMD mearly adjusted the prices of its CPU to proerly reflect the drop in performance class, well, I suppose thats an arguable point.


Peace

Yeah, C2D release basically re-adjusted the market and the scaling, things are in huge flux right now and will take several more months before it all settles down. No doubt people are looking at the new X2 prices and using this as a good buying opportunity.

AMD will sell a lot of processors as a result, in fact we are beginning to see the pains of the capacity constraints on dual core at 90 nm. It will be interesting to see what happens to AMD's ASPs as a result.

Jack

THAT's what i've been saying the whole time and you guys called me an idiot. I said the lower prices expose AMD to more normal people than ever before. :?

I have never called anybody an idiot, perhaps implied but never 'you are an idiot' I don't think you are an idot, I don't think BaronMatrix is an idot --- just misguided and misinformed. Albiet, others throw the term around quite frequently. The closest I have come to calling someone an idiot was BM's statement in one of his posts "Boy am I an idiot" to which I replied "Every village has it's idiot, we have you". I actually feel a little ashamed of that, but what is done is done. @ Baron, my sincerest apology :) ...

AMD, over the past 2 or 3 years, has established a reputibility that they have never had in the past. Prior to K8/Opteron, AMD was viewed in the industry and a lower quality alternative with spotty delivery records. This killed them. Hector Ruiz, to his infinite credit, transformed that company and will likely continue to do so.

He key accomplishment as head of AMD was not a technical one, that honor goes to Fred Weber, no it was changing the perception that AMD was only out to hurt Intel to one that was 'customer centric', unlike Intel AMD listens to their customers, whereas Intel typically tries to push the industry --- AMD responds to the industry. This is powerful.

Now, in terms of the price war etc. etc. Exposure to people has already been there, AMD took 80% of the retail sales in Q4 or 2005, every Joe Blow Comsumer store I go into AMD systems are front and center, Intel systems are in the back corner. This is not an exposure thing, this is cheap CPUs and people taking advantage to get a faster system for 1/2 the costs. The pricing scheme fell right into line in terms of relative performance -- AMD had no choice. The problem is the other side of the equation, AMD lacks capacity so we see a shortage. AMD also lacks the manufacturing technology, hence they lack the costs.

AMD will sell a lot of processors this quarter and likely take a loss as a result of depressed ASPs. It depends on how much moementum Opteron carries them through because woodcrest will not show any impact on Opteron for another quarter or two. This is where I believe your argument goes astray --- while it will allow AMD to sell more processors, lower ASP cannot be good for AMD, it is the second half of the equation that you are neglecting.

Jack

Yes i said AMD will have troubles in the short term, but the reason i said conroe could be good for the is because of all the processors they sell(even at a loss) will give them exposure(which they already had to an extent) and experience(which i don't think people have had as much of).


BTW... see, i was just called an idiot again by someone oversimplifying my statements 😛
 
I already explained all that stuff. I'm not explaining any more because i'm tired of this thread. I wasn't trying to be inflamatory, just relaying what i read on many forum topics, elsewhere than THG.

EDIT: Man, i just read that and it even sounded too angry... i gotta work on that :wink:
 
Well, I can appreciate the pragmatic assessment, I agree --- short term will be a struggle, they have their work cut out for them --- but they are doing the right things to position themselves for success 2-3 years from now.

For the moment, the pressure is on AMD to deliver --- this is what needs to happen in my opinion: 65 nm must come on line no later than this year (it has been pushed out), K8L must be delivered as this has been pushed out (I found this article interesting: http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9584_22-5091845.html), and 300 mm must ramp up faster --- the data tends to suggest they are only at 10-15% capacity, this is not profit worthy utilization.

I firmly believe they will come out strong and 2-3 years from now this is could become between a 30/70 and 40/60 market. AMD will ultimately get 30% market unit volume but they will hover in the 15-20% revenue regime until they get a C2D killer out the door.

Jack

I AGREE :)
 
"Boy am I an idiot" to which I replied "Every village has it's idiot, we have you". I actually feel a little ashamed of that, but what is done is done. @ Baron, my sincerest apology :) ...

Awww, why’d ya have to go and spoil it? I liked someone other than me being the village idiot for awhile. :wink:

.......it was changing the perception that AMD was only out to hurt Intel to one that was 'customer centric', unlike Intel AMD listens to their customers, whereas Intel typically tries to push the industry --- AMD responds to the industry. This is powerful.

I hope people read and understand this. It is a brilliant observation and truthful. In addition, and not intentionally, it drives to the heart of AMD fanboyism. Loyalty to a company which values its customers. There is nothing whatsoever wrong with loyalty. Until the point it where metamorphosis’s to extremism

IMO, one of the "unspoken" underlying questions that fuels these debates is, has Intel changed its spots? If C2D was merely a normal pre-planned technological progression for Intel, then no. If C2D was developed solely in response to AMD, then no again. If C2D was response, plus recognition of why AMD has been building momentum, then yes, Intel may be changing its spots to become a responsive rather than active-reactive company. Fear of this may be what’s scaring some of the AMD fanboys, and rightly so. A company the size of Intel, giving the customer what they want rather then telling the customer what they can have will make Intel a dangerous competitor. Time will tell.



Peace
 
I agree with that although i think it may be a little late because intel already has a set reputation for not being responsive, and AMD does, but we will see.

I was just thinking, this thread reminds me of my "RAID ins't worth it" thread where i challenged the worthyness of RAID 1 for the price. You guys think this is bad you shoulda seen the backlash on that one, with mpjesse leading the way :wink:
 
I've been looking in some other forums from different places, and unlike here where conroe is all the craze, they couldn't care less. Its not just conroe they don't care about, its almost any high end processor. The common theme is why pay for an x6800 or FX-62 when i can get a x2 3800, 4200, or e6300 and get the same results in the game or close to it for a fifth of the price? They also acknowledge how faster cpu's help people with CAD, and stuff like that, but since most people don't do that there is no point. It seems to me that people on this forum are somewhat "misguided" for recommending such highend cpu's for gaming, or even buying them themselves. I also think that conroe, although not the case here, could benifit AMD buy lowering prices and giving more exposure of AMD to normal people. I know you will also say that the e6300 can overclock past an FX-62, but in response to that, people arn't willing to pay the higher price for that cpu, nor the very expensive motherboard required to overclock like that. They also seem to like the idea of the new EE chips from AMD, and disregard C2D's slighty higher power consumption, and performance. AMD has also respinded to this with the new x2 3600, and i think it will catch on. Anway i think this will benifit AMD because by the time we need chips like the x6800 and FX-62 to run all games on high settings, AMD will have the crown back and will maybe have all price points covered, plus additional exposure to normal consumers. I see 30% marketshare in the not too distant furture 8)

2 Points here:

1. Learn how to paragraph.

and:

2. Shut the hell up fanboy.

EDIT!

Sorry for the accusation of so called "fanboyism", after reading the rest of the thread i have realised you are a fair and open-minded individual.

Sorry again.

Sheep.
 
I agree with that although i think it may be a little late because intel already has a set reputation for not being responsive, and AMD does, but we will see

Very true. Intel has a solidly established reputation for not caring. Its going to take a lot of time and effort to change that reputation, if thats what they are trying to do. In their favor, they have sufficeint cash and momentum to take the time they need to change their reputation.

Peace
 
I've been looking in some other forums from different places, and unlike here where conroe is all the craze, they couldn't care less. Its not just conroe they don't care about, its almost any high end processor. The common theme is why pay for an x6800 or FX-62 when i can get a x2 3800, 4200, or e6300 and get the same results in the game or close to it for a fifth of the price? They also acknowledge how faster cpu's help people with CAD, and stuff like that, but since most people don't do that there is no point. It seems to me that people on this forum are somewhat "misguided" for recommending such highend cpu's for gaming, or even buying them themselves. I also think that conroe, although not the case here, could benifit AMD buy lowering prices and giving more exposure of AMD to normal people. I know you will also say that the e6300 can overclock past an FX-62, but in response to that, people arn't willing to pay the higher price for that cpu, nor the very expensive motherboard required to overclock like that. They also seem to like the idea of the new EE chips from AMD, and disregard C2D's slighty higher power consumption, and performance. AMD has also respinded to this with the new x2 3600, and i think it will catch on. Anway i think this will benifit AMD because by the time we need chips like the x6800 and FX-62 to run all games on high settings, AMD will have the crown back and will maybe have all price points covered, plus additional exposure to normal consumers. I see 30% marketshare in the not too distant furture 8)

2 Points here:

1. Learn how to paragraph.

and:

2. Shut the hell up fanboy.

How bout' you read further than the first post DUMBASS
 
I agree with that although i think it may be a little late because intel already has a set reputation for not being responsive, and AMD does, but we will see

Very true. Intel has a solidly established reputation for not caring. Its going to take a lot of time and effort to change that reputation, if thats what they are trying to do. In their favor, they have sufficeint cash and momentum to take the time they need to change their reputation.

Peace

This might sound dumb but even if they change their attitude i probably still won't like them because they are only doing it because AMD is doing and it works. :wink:

I think they might being doing it though because if they REALLY wanted to, they could price AMD out of existance right now.
 
eh?
I think that investors would argue against it as it would lead to losses.
going bankrupt to kill the competition is not smart.not that they would go bankrupt but,its not smart.
and any agressive move like that may be an FTC violation,i dont know.It could be deemed monopolistic behavior.

Very true, the below is utter rubbish. Unless they "wanted to" shoot themselves in the foot, the head, and a few worse places too.

I think they might being doing it though because if they REALLY wanted to, they could price AMD out of existance right now.

Synergy6
 
This might sound dumb but even if they change their attitude i probably still won't like them because they are only doing it because AMD is doing and it works. :wink:

Be careful there. That kind of attitude is a bit rigid, and a bit out of realm. Remember, regardless of their attitude, they are a commercial enterprise, not a social entity. If they provide an improved consumer product at a better value, and the customer support to back it up, then the only person your hurting by not buying that product is you. :?

I think they might being doing it though because if they REALLY wanted to, they could price AMD out of existance right now.

Could they? Maybe, but Im not so sure. If Intel could pricve AMD out of existance, why wouldnt they? If they can, but they havent isnt that in direct opposition to the AMD fanboy attitude that Intel is evil, doesnt like competition and wants to rule the world.? :?

Peace
 
Thats why i said IF they REALLY WANTED to. I didn't say they will and i was saying thats not whats happening, and perhaps maybe they are changing their attitudes.

@turpit... i would never screw myself to support a company, first because it doesn't matter what i do as an individual, and second cuz i'm not an idiot :wink:

@verndewd.... NO PLEASE DON"T LOCK MY THREAD lol :wink:

ps. j/k please end the madness 😛
 
What i'm saying is that most people won't spend an extra 800$ so they can squeal when they get 5 extra fps in a game.

Actually you're the one who's wrong here, Conroes are relatively cheap and getting cheaper as availability increases. There's no $800 extra involved, not even $100 extra. And these guys WILL pay $200 more to get faster RAM for a 0.5% performance increase, more proof that your views on practicality and pricing are completely off-base.
 
What i'm saying is that most people won't spend an extra 800$ so they can squeal when they get 5 extra fps in a game.

Actually you're the one who's wrong here, Conroes are relatively cheap and getting cheaper as availability increases. There's no $800 extra involved, not even $100 extra. And these guys WILL pay $200 more to get faster RAM for a 0.5% performance increase, more proof that your views on practicality and pricing are completely off-base.

Way to go looking at only half of the post. I was talking about the x6800 which is a 1000 US dollars. And i was also talking about MOST NORMAl people that wouldn't see the point of spending that much on any component to get a 0.5% increase.

Anyway this thread is over so go away tard. :evil: :roll:
 
What i'm saying is that most people won't spend an extra 800$ so they can squeal when they get 5 extra fps in a game.

Actually you're the one who's wrong here, Conroes are relatively cheap and getting cheaper as availability increases. There's no $800 extra involved, not even $100 extra. And these guys WILL pay $200 more to get faster RAM for a 0.5% performance increase, more proof that your views on practicality and pricing are completely off-base.

Way to go looking at only half of the post. I was talking about the x6800 which is a 1000 US dollars. And i was also talking about MOST NORMAl people that wouldn't see the point of spending that much on any component to get a 0.5% increase.

Anyway this thread is over so go away tard. :evil: :roll:

The original topic starter here is right. End of. i cba to argue or prove my point. but that is also wot i think
 

TRENDING THREADS