Gamers say "There's No point to conroe"

[corvetteguy]

Word. But I'm feeling generous today, so I'll just point out to the rational minds like yours that his statement, there's no point to Core2 Duo's...is only backed by his implication that they cost a lot more. Which, if pressed hard enough, he'd have to admit is not true.

I went through several pages of the guy spewing on about $1000 CPU's and he comes back and says it's irrelevant because the $800 he had previously used refered to a graphics card. I look around for expensive CPU's and I see FX and Xtreme, neither of which are pertinent to any discussion on value.

You must not have read the whole thread then or you would have noticed how i explained myself. And i didn't say it was about a graphics card, i said it was about the x6800 being $800 more than most people need if we're talkign about the same thing.

PS. I don't care that you 40 000 posts, or have been here the longest. That doesn't make you right. If you don't care enough to read the whole thread but are still willing to give mostly unfounded critizism I'm still going to call you a tard because thats what you are.

GO AHEAD...... BAN ME :twisted:

 

[agentbb007]

With AM2 you'll be able to get a good cheap chip now, then drop in a K8L chip in a year 18 months, for half the price of an x6800 now

How much does AMD pay you a year? :lol: I have never seen such an obvious AMD fanboy... Do you really think your endless posting is going to help sell AMD cpu's??

Jeez you must own alot of AMD stock...

 

[corvetteguy]

With AM2 you'll be able to get a good cheap chip now, then drop in a K8L chip in a year 18 months, for half the price of an x6800 now

How much does AMD pay you a year? :lol: I have never seen such an obvious AMD fanboy... Do you really think your endless posting is going to help sell AMD cpu's??

Jeez you must own alot of AMD stock...

So you think its intelligent to invest $1000 in a cpu, instead of buying 2 midrange cpu's over the same time period for half the price, and not noticing a difference until the end when your second cpu pwns the x6800? HMMM, and you guys call me stupid.... :roll:

EDIT: I'm not trying to sell AMD cpu's, i'm only trying to tell people that they shouldn't always recommend a high priced(yes $200 is pricey for many) when a lower cpu will do just fine. Right now AMD seems to be the right choice for the low end with its lower x2's and sempron. I seriously wish you people would stop boiling everything to me being a fanboy. It seems when someone else comes up with something logical that you don't like you call them a FANBOY. AGAIN, i said i liked amd over intel, but i still wouldn't recommend them over intel if the situation doesn't call for it.

 

[BaronMatrix]

Thats the beauty of the internet, you can call people whatever you want when you don't know them!

:lol: :lol: :lol: There is a certain solace to be had in anonimity where one would say things that, socially, one would never say For example, I would not necessary walk up to BaronMatrix in public and say you lack metacognative competence to recognize your own limitaiton, but I have no problem doing so here


What's that supposed to mean? I can't leave guys alone for a minute.

 

[NMDante]

With AM2 you'll be able to get a good cheap chip now, then drop in a K8L chip in a year 18 months, for half the price of an x6800 now

How much does AMD pay you a year? :lol: I have never seen such an obvious AMD fanboy... Do you really think your endless posting is going to help sell AMD cpu's??

Jeez you must own alot of AMD stock...

So you think its intelligent to invest $1000 in a cpu, instead of buying 2 midrange cpu's over the same time period for half the price, and not noticing a difference until the end when your second cpu pwns the x6800? HMMM, and you guys call me stupid.... :roll:

EDIT: I'm not trying to sell AMD cpu's, i'm only trying to tell people that they shouldn't always recommend a high priced(yes $200 is pricey for many) when a lower cpu will do just fine. Right now AMD seems to be the right choice for the low end with its lower x2's and sempron. I seriously wish you people would stop boiling everything to me being a fanboy. It seems when someone else comes up with something logical that you don't like you call them a FANBOY. AGAIN, i said i liked amd over intel, but i still wouldn't recommend them over intel if the situation doesn't call for it.

But right now, Intel is a better performance chip for the price. If you are pushing to the enthusiast crowd, you're preaching to the choir. Since, that group will always want the best money can get them, right now. These are the people who are willing to change CPUs every 6 months to year, as you describe.

If you're talking the hobbist, then they are looking for a CPU that will last them a few years, not pop for a CPU every 6 months to a year. These people usually upgrade every 2 years or so.

The people who use their computers for email and internet want whatever the newspaper ads have for sale, no matter who makes them.

So, if someone wants to drop $1k for a CPU, that's their decision. Why pay for 2 midrange CPUs, when neither CPU will have the same performance than the 1 CPU. And by the time the latest, greatest comes around, the $1k CPU will be the mid-range, and the 2 mid-range CPUs will be low range. So, in that convention, 1 CPU that will last 1-2 years, @ $1k to $800 will be less to maintain, then constantly buying mid/low range CPUs, with the possiblity of having to upgrade memory and motherboards.

As for the fanboy comments...don't let it get to you. Who cares? But brand loyalty for a company that doesn't have the same loyalty to someone is a bit, well, goofy.

 

[corvetteguy]

I know that and its too bad really, because if normal people put a bit more effort into reasearch before buying they could save themselves some money. But i guess your right and even if something makes sense that doesn't neccessarily mean it will sell. 🙁

As for me i am not brand loyal to AMD, infact this current build is the first time going AMD. Just because i like AMD doesn't make me a fanboy. :?

 

[corvetteguy]

in the end your statement only has validity when / if amd can counter in 18 months,aside from the fact that the 6400 is more than most need for now.
bud, amd has no chip right now,hand the crown to intel,just do it,youll feel better.
you should take pride in your amd religion as they will grow significantly due to aquiring ati;which means intel shrinkwrap.have you even been following the market?
even if amd doesnt beat core 2 growth is assured,guaranteed!the market is loving amd right now;regardless of the skeptics.
my point ?????? intel wins the performance as they have been able to make a cache process work for them;;Amd wins the war and looses the battle.are ya friggen getting this?

I already said all that man. I know conroe high end is the best out there now and until at least the end of the year. My entire point is that many people don't need to spend the amount of money it takes to build any conroe system to get what they want, and people shouldn't always recommend it for every situation. I'm simply saying AM2 is a viable alternative to intel in the mid and low range price points.


Ok here we go... to be very clear.... INTEL WON BACK THE PERFORMANCE CROWN.

I don't seem to feel any better because i already said it when conroe came out and up to now i'm still saying it.

 

[croc]

Please go back to accounting classes... Your cost - benefit analysis sucks. I give it a d- only out of kindness.

Depending on where you live, most corporates will ammortise their CPU assets somewhere between 18 to 36 mths... (in dumb speak, that means they write them off of their taxes...)

OK, where I am, we need to 'refresh' our corporate stock every 24 mths, or we need to take a capital gains vs a capital loss on the stock still retained. With me so far?

So one needs then to look at the cost-benefit analysis of keeping the 'old' hardware (thus accruing a capital gains) vs the cost of deploying new hardware (thus incurring a capital loss) less the lost time / material (manpower) of doing the actual upgrade. Since we 'own' the time assetts, (ie, our IT is not outsourced) the 'time' function gets inputted into the opex as 'extraordinary one-off costs', and therefore also accrues a tax loss. Therefore a profit gain, as it tends to elevate the bottom line.

Every little bit helps...

 

[agentbb007]

AGAIN, i said i liked amd over intel, but i still wouldn't recommend them over intel if the situation doesn't call for it.

Ok, so when would you recommend intel over amd? Because from your mass spam of posts I can't imagine any situation you would recommend intel over amd...

 

[turpit]

I can't leave guys alone for a minute

Just remember, You said it, we didnt.

Let the Brokeback Baron jokes begin

 

[killer_roach]

I think the only real downside to the Conroe platform as it exists is the fact that motherboards for anything other than the mainstream market are going for $200+... one of the reasons I bought AMD on my last build (I tend to bounce back and forth between Intel and AMD, going as far back as an AMD K5) was the fact that the EPoX 9NPA+, an excellent overclocking s939 motherboard, was available for around $100 at the time... even still, though, as a consummate overclocker, I feel like my next build will be an Intel one, just because of the fact that the headroom on any Conroe at the moment is tremendous, and, if that holds for the quad-cores, that's what I'll pick up. K8L looks like it'll be promising, but it might be a bit longer than I want to wait for a new CPU (my 3000+ is showing its age at stock speeds, although I can overclock it close to the 2.6 range when I feel like I need some extra horsepower, just leave it normally at stock to preserve its life; I don't want to have an upgrade forced on me again).

No matter how you look at it, AMD has awakened a sleeping giant and filled it with a terrible resolve... and the giant took a pretty good swing with Core 2 Duo. Methinks the next 6-12 months will be very interesting indeed

 

[corvetteguy]

Please go back to accounting classes... Your cost - benefit analysis sucks. I give it a d- only out of kindness.

Depending on where you live, most corporates will ammortise their CPU assets somewhere between 18 to 36 mths... (in dumb speak, that means they write them off of their taxes...)

OK, where I am, we need to 'refresh' our corporate stock every 24 mths, or we need to take a capital gains vs a capital loss on the stock still retained. With me so far?

So one needs then to look at the cost-benefit analysis of keeping the 'old' hardware (thus accruing a capital gains) vs the cost of deploying new hardware (thus incurring a capital loss) less the lost time / material (manpower) of doing the actual upgrade. Since we 'own' the time assetts, (ie, our IT is not outsourced) the 'time' function gets inputted into the opex as 'extraordinary one-off costs', and therefore also accrues a tax loss. Therefore a profit gain, as it tends to elevate the bottom line.

Every little bit helps...

WTF are you talking about... certainly not what we are. This is about gamers not corporations needing tax write offs. I guess you just need to add your 2 cents. Its ok, we understand. :roll:

 

[corvetteguy]

AGAIN, i said i liked amd over intel, but i still wouldn't recommend them over intel if the situation doesn't call for it.

Ok, so when would you recommend intel over amd? Because from your mass spam of posts I can't imagine any situation you would recommend intel over amd...

I would recommend intel for video editing and cpu intensive tasks for a person with a decent budget. I would recommend intel for overclockers. I would also recommend the very high end ones for people that won't listen to reason and just have to have the best. I would recommend AMD for normal gaming, and people on a budget. I would also recommend some AM2 cpu's for overclockers. I would recommend AM2 EE's for people concerned about power. I would also recommed AM2 x2 3600 or 3800 EE for an internet machine, since the price difference beteween them and a PD805 arn't much, but performance increase is dramatic.

So don't say i wouldn't recommend intel for anything.

 

[corvetteguy]

No gerbil, but, i have an imaginary friend named BOB. :lol:

He understands me...

 

[corvetteguy]

I think the only real downside to the Conroe platform as it exists is the fact that motherboards for anything other than the mainstream market are going for $200+... one of the reasons I bought AMD on my last build (I tend to bounce back and forth between Intel and AMD, going as far back as an AMD K5) was the fact that the EPoX 9NPA+, an excellent overclocking s939 motherboard, was available for around $100 at the time... even still, though, as a consummate overclocker, I feel like my next build will be an Intel one, just because of the fact that the headroom on any Conroe at the moment is tremendous, and, if that holds for the quad-cores, that's what I'll pick up. K8L looks like it'll be promising, but it might be a bit longer than I want to wait for a new CPU (my 3000+ is showing its age at stock speeds, although I can overclock it close to the 2.6 range when I feel like I need some extra horsepower, just leave it normally at stock to preserve its life; I don't want to have an upgrade forced on me again).



No matter how you look at it, AMD has awakened a sleeping giant and filled it with a terrible resolve... and the giant took a pretty good swing with Core 2 Duo. Methinks the next 6-12 months will be very interesting indeed

I cant wait to start topic hopping on amd's integrated platforms.performance ,market impact and rubbing it in intels nose;and then bashing amd for killing the ati brand name.

I really hope they don't drop ATI but if they do, i think its a bad decision and i will think of them in a duller light

 

[Mex]

I can't leave guys alone for a minute

Just remember, You said it, we didnt.

Let the Brokeback Baron jokes begin
:trophy: :tongue: :mrgreen: :trophy: lol
laughing,,,,,,,,
so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
hard,,,,,,,,,,,,,
starting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,to,,,,,,,,,
hallucinate,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
jesus is that you? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

==============================

On topic (sort of), I think that AMD's future compatability is suspect. AMD says that it will be compatible, but that would be the best case scenario, I think. Take into account that we don't know jack about K8L and more importantly, that AM3 (Using DDR3) is still at least a year off. My conclusion is that a year is a very long time, and problems could spring up at any point, requiring new chipsets, voltage regulators, etc. Just because AMD says it will be forward-compatable doesn't mean it'll happen; yet, for the sake of their future, they'll try as hard as they can.

 

[corvetteguy]

No gerbil, but, i have an imaginary friend named BOB. :lol:

He understands me...

lmao ok then say hi to bob.

No need, he's right here.

"Say hi bob!"

"Hii...."

"Uh.. oh , bob says hi 😀 "

 

[NMDante]

in the end your statement only has validity when / if amd can counter in 18 months,aside from the fact that the 6400 is more than most need for now.
bud, amd has no chip right now,hand the crown to intel,just do it,youll feel better.
you should take pride in your amd religion as they will grow significantly due to aquiring ati;which means intel shrinkwrap.have you even been following the market?
even if amd doesnt beat core 2 growth is assured,guaranteed!the market is loving amd right now;regardless of the skeptics.
my point ?????? intel wins the performance as they have been able to make a cache process work for them;;Amd wins the war and looses the battle.are ya friggen getting this?

I already said all that man. I know conroe high end is the best out there now and until at least the end of the year. My entire point is that many people don't need to spend the amount of money it takes to build any conroe system to get what they want, and people shouldn't always recommend it for every situation. I'm simply saying AM2 is a viable alternative to intel in the mid and low range price points.


Ok here we go... to be very clear.... INTEL WON BACK THE PERFORMANCE CROWN.

I don't seem to feel any better because i already said it when conroe came out and up to now i'm still saying it.

But the AM2 upgrade, for people going from 939, isn't what I consider getting the best for the money.

Most of the benchmarks are showing even the lowest C2D CPU matching or besting most of the AM2 X2 CPUs, even in gaming. And since it is a total upgrade for those going from 939, why recommend a system that is already behind the curve in gaming? Seeing as a new motherboard, CPU, memory is needed for either an AM2 or C2D system, the recommended setup will be C2D for gaming, right now. Add to that the overclocking ablity that both E6300/6400 have shown, it's silly not to recommend them for a new build.

As for upgradability, the AM2 is said to be able to run AM3. But, Kentsfield has been shown to run on existing 975 boards, already. And maybe the 965 will run Kentsfield as well.

 

[Crashman]

I don't care that you 40 000 posts, or have been here the longest. That doesn't make you right.

You're right about one thing, it's not my 40,000 posts that make me right. It's being right that makes me right. Being right is a lifestyle choice, you either do it, as I do, or you wallow with the swine. In fact, there are two competing phillosophies that apply here:

1.) Don't argue with a fool (only a stupid man would waste his time), even a fool looks wise when he holds his tongue...
2.) Rebuke a fool (so that everyone else will understand)

I shouldn't have to read more than three pages to respond to your first statement. In fact, I don't. If you wanted to revise that statement, you would have. E6300 goes for around $200, E6400 goes for around $250, both are dropping towards their wholesale prices as availability increases.

The problem is, you're stating that Conroe's are very expensive, which they aren't, making them a poor value, which they aren't. AMD dropped their prices in reaction to Core2 Duo's, so now we have options for good value whereas before we didn't.

Because Intel offered high-value pricing on Core2 processors from the outset (which you arogantly said was not the case) You now have the option of of getting good value from AMD. Or Intel. You thought perhaps your rant would deceive us? Or perhaps, as you said, you were simply reporting other people's MISconceptions? Either way, you have shown yourself willing to perpetuate such misconceptions, to back up such ignorant claims, and hopefully none of the newbies have taken your mis-information to heart.

 

[turpit]

I can't leave guys alone for a minute

Just remember, You said it, we didnt.

Let the Brokeback Baron jokes begin
:trophy: :tongue: :mrgreen: :trophy: lol
laughing,,,,,,,,
so,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
hard,,,,,,,,,,,,,
starting,,,,,,,,,,,,,,to,,,,,,,,,
hallucinate,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
jesus is that you? :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

==============================

On topic (sort of), I think that AMD's future compatability is suspect. AMD says that it will be compatible, but that would be the best case scenario, I think. Take into account that we don't know jack about K8L and more importantly, that AM3 (Using DDR3) is still at least a year off. My conclusion is that a year is a very long time, and problems could spring up at any point, requiring new chipsets, voltage regulators, etc. Just because AMD says it will be forward-compatable doesn't mean it'll happen; yet, for the sake of their future, they'll try as hard as they can.


Yes, as Exit2Dos pointed out in another thread, upgrading to an AM3 CPU on an older AM2 (if AMD holds true to their word) mobo will throw away some of the benefits AM3 will supposedly bring.

 

[xombie2000]

I would recommend AMD for normal gaming, and people on a budget.

What is "normal" gaming? Gaming and video editing is normally the most intensive thing a PC will do. Besides a $200 C2D is an awsome peforming chip. That and $150 board should last a lot longer before needing an upgrade than a 3800+ and a 939 board.

I would also recommend some AM2 cpu's for overclockers.

Why? Is there something special about AM2's overclocking over 939? C2D seems to be doing about 40% on air.

 

[xombie2000]

That doesnt answer the question, it wasnt about gaming centers, it was about gaming.

 

[Mex]

they dropped the ati name already,,i suspect they have gone for the full absorption,and corporate namelessness that is common with such aquisitions.
if i had to guess,they will squelch ati's tech altogether to stay in bed with nvidia,,,,a sad but important move at this time.
i can only pray that they evolve the ati tech as it would be stupid to dump it,and in the future it would bite them hard.

Huh? Where did you hear that? I heard rumors, but nothing definate. What could happen is that AMD could rebrand and keep the chipset department. If that was the case, though, AMD wouldn't have needed to buy out the GPU part, unless the IGP was part of that divison, which they would want...this is horribly confusing. On top of that, how can they rebrand a company they don't even own? The deal couldn't have been finalized already, could it?

I'll fall back on plan B: Relabel ATi Video card boxes to read:
"AMD presents...an ATi designed GPU!" [/Manipulative Hollywood Producer]

 

[xombie2000]

Perhaps you could elaborate and educate me.

 

[turpit]

its curious ,turpit;that intel is poised for the enthusiast sector,as well as many other sectors,and regardless of wether amd can compete on price per chip amd will continue to grow.
and by the same token intel regardless of performance will shrink.what an incredible dynamic.

Well, the model I tend to compare the CPU manufacturing market to is the US automotive manufacturing market, with Intel taking on the role of the the big 3 and AMD that of the Japanese. If the CPU market continues to follow that model, AMD will eventually end up rivaling Intel in size, sales volume and profit. So far, by my interpretation (which could very well be wrong) this seems to be happening. We'll see what happens with AMD over the next 12-24 months.

Peace.

PS, Im not on the fun police's shite list for anything, am I?