Gaming With AGP Graphics: Overclock That CPU!

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And the article did that perfectly. A great read. For the tiny percentage that are on very high end PC's, sure they can look down on AGP but there must be a great deal of people still on these older systems who feel their choice is either to get a new PC or dont play games anymore. Rare articles like this really help and its nice to see some AGP users popping up in the comments who are still happy with AGP.
 
Nice review. In your "Test System Configuration" you have the processor listed as a 939 X2 4200+ when I think you meant AM2 4200+. That upgrade board works great. An ideal cpu for this type of up grade is the AM2 4600+ windsor which runs at 2.6. Of couse they can be difficult to find. Don't let anyone pick on that MB or upgrade board. I have been using that exact same mb in a system since October of 2006 and then with the upgrade board about a year ago and it is still running strong.
 
[citation][nom]Cleeve[/nom]There are two factors you're missing:1. It's nice to have a secondary gaming machine. I talk about that in the article, $150 is a cheap expense for ressurecting a secondary machine into something playable. A PSU isn't necessary -- as I've demonstrated in the power benches, a new 4650 uses the same power as an old X700.2. Some people might not have the same budget as you, Apache. For those folks, a $150 upgrade for a couple more years of service might be a viable option.[/citation]

I do have a LAN room with 3 of my older PC's playing COD5 etc - i still dont have DDR1/AGP rigs there.
 
[citation][nom]apache_lives[/nom]I do have a LAN room with 3 of my older PC's playing COD5 etc - i still dont have DDR1/AGP rigs there.[/citation]

Well congratulations and have a cookie.
 
I love you guys at Tomshardware. You provide more useful data than all the other tech sites combined. I have just one question for you master Woligroski. Where can I get a daughter board? Thanks again for the great article.
Mac
 
[citation][nom]Cleeve[/nom]The last Nvidia AGP was the 7900 GS -- not even as fast as the 4650, about as fast as the old X1900 PRO. And those were hard to find. After that, they abandoned the bus.[/citation]

I am pretty sure Nvidia made an AGP version of the 7950GT but they were pretty expensive.
 
[citation][nom]Mac Craig[/nom]I love you guys at Tomshardware. You provide more useful data than all the other tech sites combined. I have just one question for you master Woligroski. Where can I get a daughter board? Thanks again for the great article. Mac[/citation]

Mac if you have the mother board to support it they can be purchased at ewiz.com.


http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=AM2CPUBRD
 
they should have used the fastest socket AM2 CPU available then overclocked it as far as it would handle then benchmarked to see how well agp compared to pci-e

in 90% of the test, the CPU was the bottleneck, which means they were benchmarking the CPU not the videocards or agp pr pci-e

would you test a racing car by driving it in the city at 30MPH?
 
PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE.

Put that cpu upgrade daughterboard on a X58 motherboard, and see if you can add the 2 athlon cores to the system.

If not, PLEASE, rant a lot on AsRock to proportionate drivers.

I would absolutely love to convert my QuaD core i7 on a six core machine.

I hate to throw away my faitful and still powerfull Athlon X2 and 2 Gb of DDR2 beacuse of my upgrade to the i7.

And some day I gonna regret to trhow away my i7 and those 6 Gb of DDR3.

Maybe it also needs support from Microsoft. Is worty of pursue.

I don'a want to throw my hardware to the trash some day...
 
[citation][nom]Razor512[/nom]they should have used the fastest socket AM2 CPU available then overclocked it as far as it would handle then benchmarked to see how well agp compared to pci-ein 90% of the test, the CPU was the bottleneck, which means they were benchmarking the CPU not the videocards or agp pr pci-ewould you test a racing car by driving it in the city at 30MPH?[/citation]

You really didn't get the point of the article at all.
 


I was trying to simulate something that could happen on Socket 939, not newer PCIe motherboards.

I wouldn have gotten a socket 939 version of the 4200+, but I was in a crunch and had to settle for an AM2. Performance should be similar if not identical, though.

Going maxed-out AM2+ wasn't what I was going for, and wouldn't give folks with older platforms a realistic expectation.
 
$82 Athlon II
$62 Radeon 3850
$53 GIGABYTE GA-M61PME-S2P (cheapest AM2+ board I could find)
$25 2GGB of DDR2
Click to expand...
I got my prices from Newegg, where were you looking? (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102794). The Athlon x2 240 is $63 not $82. I was assuming that this person wasn't also joking with DDR RAM...
Umm, I dont see any RAM there. Nice try tho.
Click to expand...
Right, for those who weren't already running a DDR2 board, there's $25 for 2GB. As someone currently running an Athlon x2 3800 with 2GB DDR2, I hadn't really considered that possibility.
 
[citation][nom]philosofool[/nom]I got my prices from Newegg, where were you looking? (http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814102794). The Athlon x2 240 is $63 not $82.[/citation]

Ew. Building a new machine and opting for an Athlon 240 instead of the 250 with the unlocked multiplier? I kind of assumed if we were spending the cash for new we'd be looking at something with a little more zip.

But sure, $19 difference. Although that still leaves a new system about $200 and a new AGP card at half that.
 
You must be kidding, dont't you? Simply look @Far Cry 2 here - http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/agp-radeon-overclocking,2395-6.html
Let's bet it's not possible, OK? Just swap CPU's from A64 X2 @2.0 to @2.6 and the framerate jumps from 20 fps to 60 fps :)))) Seriously, don't write it any more and erase it ASAP. I see you put 2GB DDR2 kit with AM2 CPU. What RAM did you exactly use with the 939 CPU? Maybe 512MB or at best 1GB? But there a 2GB kit and you'll see a deference of 10% at most.
I don't see your point of view but stop faking pls.

Cheers,
St.Stanev
 
[citation][nom]Cleeve[/nom]Ew. Building a new machine and opting for an Athlon 240 instead of the 250 with the unlocked multiplier? I kind of assumed if we were spending the cash for new we'd be looking at something with a little more zip.But sure, $19 difference. Although that still leaves a new system about $200 and a new AGP card at half that.[/citation]

I can see where you're coming from but you should add that not only is it half the price to get a bit more life out of that older system, but its a lot easier to do, especially for less experienced people. The boost is probably a lot more desirable than the new build for most people in that situation because of that.

Also it isn't actually great advice to build a new system that is based on cheapest parts you can get today. It just won't last as long as buying into something with a little more future proofing. And since were talking about people who have been using their PC for much longer than most, that seems important. A cheaper AM3 board would be a good start for most moving from an older skt939 or older am2. With onboard graphics you could stagger the upgrade more easily to get better parts. Just get the AM3 board now with a good but small amount of DD3. Carry over the CPU from the AM2 board or buy into a better AM3 CPU if you were moving from skt939.

However you do it, just buying the weakest AM2+ setup you can today is a choice that will cost you more down the road when you have to buy a new motherboard all over again to keep up with what games are requiring to be playable.

Having said all that, I just recently saw what CUDA could do with global illumination rendering with the fastest cpu taking a few minutes to render one image and the single GPU doing it at around 10fps. I'm thinking the shift to the GPU being more important is a possibility and that confuses the heck out of me on my next upgrade. More SLI/Crossfire would be the main consideration there since my main use of a PC is 3D rendering.
 
Too bad my agp-based systems here are Pentium 3's 800Mhz and less.
The only old system I am using at the moment is some weird dual socket 7 pc for experimenting.

Nice review!
 
It would have also been interesting for you guys to have used ASROCK's 4Core Dual SATA2 board and run this setup with an Core2 Quad 6700 or Core2 Extreme GX6800 on it .

The board is decent enough (I've been using one for a little over a year). It has not only the AGP slot but also a PCI-X4 so I just recently went from my old ATI 9800 AIW Pro 128 to a new MSI 250 GTS 512 (I'm doing CAD with it this fall so I need the better graphics). It runs both DDR and DDR2 to 667 (only up to 2gb) and I've got a Core2 E7400.

Some of us have to gently ease our spouses into letting us buy parts so the slow upgrade bit is the only route.
 
Oh this kinda stuff drives me crazy. For a fact the dual core 3800 which I Had, and the 8800gts with nivida drivers ran Crysis Just fine. Looked great and no stuttering and or crashing. Played nice and smooth. Yes I have the Pci-express and I noticed they use agp. That May or May not effected the outcome of the tests.

You simply dont need the hardware most swear you need to run current games. Yea if you got extra cash and can afford it sure upgrade. If your on a tight budget that leave it be. There are Tons of other reasons your pc may not be running current games right. Hit a geek forum, find out how to best maintain your P.c. and google "gamebooster" its free from iobit.com Don't buy into the pointless hype. Try the free way first. you may save yourself some money.

Yea the hardcore gammers will run liquid cooling with dual video cards. IMHO thats just MAJOR overkill. They will swear this video card and that processor will never run your favorite game. Do some research, you may find in most cases they are full of creme cheese. Don't be a sheep and think for yourself.
 
[citation][nom]johnny1587912153[/nom]Oh this kinda stuff drives me crazy. For a fact the dual core 3800 which I Had, and the 8800gts with nivida drivers ran Crysis Just fine. Looked great and no stuttering and or crashing. Played nice and smooth. [/citation]

Frankly, I think you're remembering the game through rose-colored glasses. No way Crysis was smooth on a 3800+, unless maybe you were playing it at 640x480 on the lowest details possible.
 
There's nearly always value in a mid-life minor upgrade. My socket 939 3800+ single core greatly benefitted from going from a 7800 GT to a 9800GT. There is very little (admittedly I haven't yet played Crysis) that it can't run smoothly in a half way decent resolution at decent framerates...GTA IV would be the worst.

Stop gap sure, but it cost about US$120 and added a couple of years serviceability. I'm looking around for a decent dual core 3800 X2 but haven't found a cheap one yet....they seem to be fairly rare.

Next upgrade will naturally be the full mboard/cpu/graphics.
 
[citation][nom]spwalker[/nom]Let's bet it's not possible, OK? Just swap CPU's from A64 X2 @2.0 to @2.6 and the framerate jumps from 20 fps to 60 fps ))) Seriously, don't write it any more and erase it ASAP. [/citation]

Wow, you aren't familiar with CPU bottlenecks, are you? You need to spend a little more time with PCs, my friend.

It was 2 gigs of RAM in both systems, by the way.
 
This was an AWESOME article! Thanks to the guys at Tom's for writing it!

It looks to me like many of the people commenting either can't read, or the article went right over their heads (Woosh).

I have EXACTLY this situation at home. I have just upgraded my main computer. It might not be much of an upgrade to some of the people here, but my frame rates in Guild Wars with all the graphics turned up and running at 1680 x 1050 often hit 125, and average over 60.

So, my old system guts were used to upgrade the "guest" computer in my livingroom. This computer is for people who visit and gets used a few times a week. Currently is has a 1.5GHz Athlon 64 (not duel core) with 2G RAM and an ATI 9600XT graphics card overclocked with extra cooling on it. It will run Guild Wars at 1280 x 1024 with framerates reaching about 50 max, and hovering around 40 most of the time.

This would be the ideal system to test your performance boost on. For about $160 I could install the video card and a CPU running at around 2-2.5GHz overclocked. I don't really need the duel core for this system as it is not running the latest and greatest FPS games (I don't like FPS anyway, too many little kiddies playing). I'm sure this would give me added performance on the games I will be playing. And two of the major newer games will be Diablo 3 and Star Craft 2 which I'm sure would perform adequately with this system.

For some reason some of the commenters (apache_lives) seem to think this would be a waste of money. Since spending $150-$200 to get a few more years out of this system is a much better option than spending another $800 to $1000 (which is what I spent to upgrade my own computer), why would anyone spend that much money to upgrade a spare computer? No, I don't need more RAM, nor a better PSU. And why would my motherboard suddenly die for no reason? It's just as reliable as any other board. Obviously, some of the commenters did not read the entire article nor read the several times the author wrote in the article that this upgrade was for older AGP systems that could be used for your buddy if you have a LAN party. (aka SPARE COMPUTER). Just to mention, I don't get new rigs but continue to upgrade my computer over and over and over. I still have the awesome case I bought almost 10 years ago. Still fits everything. It has a new PSU, but otherwise it's the same case. No point replacing it for no good reason. I only replace the accessories as they wear out. The only thing I replaced that I didn't have to was my monitor. I replaced my 19" CRT with a 22" widescreen (anyone wanna buy a 19" CRT monitor cheap?)

Having said that, I wouldn't mind if Tom's could mention Wow and Guild Wars in their articles. I realize that much of the speed in a MMORPG depends on your Internet connection and the game servers, but you can plainly see the improvement in frame rates I got with my upgrade. A lot of people play the MMORPGs and would be interested to see how these components and upgrade would perform. It seems all the attention is given to FPS games.
With GW2 coming out in April 2010, I hope Tom's will pay a little more attention to MMORPGs.
 
[citation][nom]Mergatroid[/nom]I hope Tom's will pay a little more attention to MMORPGs.[/citation]

We've wanted to do a thorough WoW analysis for a very long time, but the problem is that we haven't decided the right way to do it, and the complexity that game server speed reliance brings to the table. not only do we have to compare PC hardware and graphic settings, but different times of day, different servers, etc... it's a bit of a nightmare we haven't quite allotted enough time to bite off and chew just yet.

As for settling for your single core CPU: definitely worth a try, but if you find you're bottle-necked you know where to look for the culprit... 😛
 
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