GeForce 3D Vision: Gaming Goes Stereo

[Sushi Warrior]

Fadamor,

4ms response time isn't the refresh rate - it's the response rate. There's a difference. Plus, your 4ms response time could be Gray to Gray, in which case the actual response time would be more like 8-12ms (black to black). Also, did you specifically see that they were 120hz HDMI inputs? Maybe they wouldn't take 120hz from the graphics card(I.E. graphics cards don't have the port because it's too new tech - like 1080p TVs when they were new).

I haven't seen a 120hz properly in person, so I'm just asking quenstions and making some assumptions. Oh, and based on Tom's article on iZ3d it isn't looking too good - especially because AMD doesn't actually have anything to do with iZ3d - it's all made up. plus there are a bunch of settings to configure for each game.

 

[shachar2]

my uncle used to have one of those products years ago and I've used them for a bit (few hours at most). it was nice to see in 3d, if it's a car racing game or an x-wing you see the object like it was a toy that you can grab, real neat. back then the background didn't look to me like 3d but it was still nice.

the problem that was back then still isn't solved: compatibility.
nvidia is too early into the game, nvidia should have waited a few years for the 120hz screens to be common place.

companies have been talking about 3d for a long time now but it's just isn't picking up and it won't pick up in pc either unless the game just works, that means no profile or manually changing settings. at worst case it should be a tick box to enable 3d glasses.

as for what k_meleon1982 said from a customer's side of view I agree my entire computer should be 3d: pictures, movies and desktop not just games but and that's the reason 3d hasn't picked up games are already 'written' and 'designed' in 3d and pictures and movies aren't

getting into the 3d "market" is way way too early: products are pricy, first generation (if you ignore the older failed product, they failed because they didn't penetrate the market and disappeared from it) and not a lot of competition


toms should do a review on all latest 3d technology when ATI's technology's out: Nvidia, ATI and 3D screens

and if you can try to avoid writing 43 pages, that's the only thing I hate about this site

 

[SirSuperSouthern]

Great article, Chris... and extremely timely in the case of yours truly. I've been eyeing 30" monitors for weeks, and was starting to get impatient. I knew that 120Hz was the next jump in LCD technology because all the new LCDTVs have it; but the way it was explained to me is that 120Hz is only necessary to reduce blurring in HDTV broadcasts (like football games). So I was getting ready to make my big move and go with either the Samsung or Dell 30".

Now I see this!

It would've been HARD to forgive myself for paying over a grand for a monitor that couldn't keep up with the times, and I thank you (a million times over) for giving me a good reason to w...wa...way..... WAIT a bit longer (man I hate that word!).

 

[LCountach]

I must point out that this is somewhat of a SCAM forced upon the original Nvidia 3D userbase by none other than Nvidia themselves! Until recently Nvidia offered their 3D drivers for FREE! After Driver 162.50 with official Geforce7 series support they shafted their userbase. Nvidia INTENTIONALLY DISABLED Geforce8 Series support. However a ingenuitive user realized that if you disable Window's ability to recognize what monitor you are using, the drivers DID work with the early Geforce8 Series. This includes the 8800 GTS, GTX, and ULTRA. For years there has been a large base of hardware from Shutter Glasses to HUGELY EXPENSIVE HMDs that are dependent upon Nvidia's drivers. I own an example of both such technologies. Both no longer work simply because Nvidia chose to discontinue support. Users have also discovered the code for the older technologies still exists within their drivers but are disabled. Why should I trash my older hardware to by a new setup that functions exactly the same as my old setup. Yes I admit my hardware is a little older but it still works GREAT! The only difference is the connector. Old=VGA New=DVI Oh and by the way my Geforce 7950GT and 8800GTS(G92) both work great with my old shutters, HMD and 22" CRT monitors with DVI/VGA adapters. My 8800GTS(G92) is forced to use eDimensional's ANCIENT universal drivers but when I do find a game that is still compatible the 3D image is just fine.

Simply put Nvidia does not want you to buy a $10 pair of (Once Officially Supported) eDimensionals off ebay and enjoy all the 3D goodness on your old CRT. You could even get a new "Officially Compatible" Samsung’s SyncMaster 22” 2233RZ and use the old eDimensionals because it too has a VGA port. Well that is if Nvidia wasn't shafting you.

Unless Nvidia wakes up and re-enables universal monitor support I probably won't be buying their overly expensive glasses. I just might have forked over the $200 but they want me to trash my pair of 22" monitors too. NO THANK YOU! eDimensionals were only $100 and didn't require you to buy a special monitor. iZ3D is currently $400 and works with both Nvidia and ATI cards. It just doesn't have the official blessing from either company yet. Unfortunately being a passive display I don't want an iZ3D either.

Flame if you want but I speak the truth!

 

[enewmen]

[citation][nom]techtre2003[/nom]I wonder why we aren't seeing 3D displays that don't require glasses? I remember seeing a large 3D display (around 42")at an Intel show about 3 or 4 years ago. I guess the cost would be prohibitive?[/citation]
Links please!

 

[LCountach]

I thought I read the new glasses did not support CRTs but Nvidias page says otherwise. It looks like I have egg all over my face.

 

[TheGreatGrapeApe]

I think he's refering to the NECs at Cebit 2 years ago;
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/nec-3d-lcd,4451.html

There's also the older Grundig Thaurus.

And then SHARP's even older glasses-less 3D technology from 2004;
http://www.sharp-world.com/products/device/about/lcd/3d/
http://www.tomshardware.com/news/sharp-launches-3d-desktop-lcd,159.html

With the Sharp RD3D LAPTOP (I'll provide the link hosted on nV's site extolling the virtues of the oh so powerful GF4 440GO );
http://www.nvidia.com/object/sharp-rd3d.html

It was followed by the AL3D which had a GF GO6600, I remember reading about them and thinking, interesting, but impractical and expensive right now.

There were bigger sizes from various providers, but no major adoption, not like any other 3D tech has been greatly adopted yet either. But the Sharp laptops did have WinDVD support for 3D movies.

 

[Kuriente]

The 120hz feature Fadamor mentioned I don't think is actually the HDMI port refresh rate but rather a feature of the display to make video appear more smooth. I've got a Samsung LN46A750 which also has the feature.

Basically my understanding of it is that it increases the refresh rate of the display to 120hz regardless of the source refresh-rate but it does seem to actually insert extra frames to compensate for the difference. I think it uses a processor of some kind which calculates the difference in frames and simply creates frames to fill in the blanks. So, theoretically I think it ought to work with this but might not be perfect as some people complain about seeing occasional artifacts with this enabled. I attribute it to the processing technology relying on the hardware's best guess for what something is supposed to look like which doesn't always work out for us humans.

I generally don't use the feature because it makes movies look weird since it's effectively upping the refresh from 24fps to 60fps (tends to make movies look like video). If this feature would work for these glasses though it would be worth looking into I think.

 

[enewmen]

^ Exactly!

 

[wh3resmycar]

is this safe on the eyes? i mean arent you going to lose your eyesight in 1 week time of continuous use?

 

[enewmen]

The "SHARP's even older glasses-less 3D technology" is what I was referring to.

 

[TRouble]

One minor point about existing 3D technologies - one wasn't mentioned:

There is a third, very high end, technology that utilizes LCD screens and does not require glasses of any sort. The vertical columns are split on the screen itself, where half are directed towards one eye and half towards the other. This gives a 3D effect up to a certain distance (and angle) from the screen.

This technology is used primarily for professional applications such as CAD.

The technology has the disadvantage of effectively halving the horizontal resolution, but does not require any additional eyewear or darken the image.

 

[enewmen]

^ I think you are referring to a technology The Ape already gave a link to. If not, please give your link. Thanks!

 

[StickmanOMG]

I still have a pair of e-Dimensional glasses, and found them to be great when playing games from UT2004 to Descent (That was great in true 3D!).

The main problem they appear to be having with the stereoscopic effect is the use of post-processing in games... this tech doesn't seem to get along with it. Hopefully they'll get that sorted out, so we can play the games "the way it's meant to be played".

As was mentioned by someone else, nVidia screwed existing users by removing support for stereoscopic gaming unless you had very select components.

Even back then, nVidia had their cool 3D crosshair which was very very nice as mentioned in this article. A dodgy cheat was available in CS:Source in that you could completely push the flashbang and smoke effects off the edge of the screen thus rendering you impervious to their effects. (Not that I abused that "feature"... *cough*)

Nvidia removed support for them, and now presents it again as being new? Not impressed, and it's about damn time they re-implemented it, especially for existing users.

 

[deltatux]

I have a bad feeling this is just another gimmick and in this situation no one really needs it. I just can't imagine NVIDIA is counter-innovating. This tech has been how old?

I rather stick to the true and tested 3D rendering instead of the eye-numbing "virtual 3D".

 

[Guest]

I would like to know if I can use this 3d kit with my 1080P TV, it is a Samsung Serie 6 and it is stated it can display 120hz refresh rate. Is it possible? What you think abnout it?

 

[NEB1]

How about this?
http://www.samsung.com/us/consumer/accessory/type/accList.do?group=televisions&type=televisions&subtype=tvaccessories&subsubtype=3dkit
This is a Samsung 3D kit that works with Samsung DLps ... Maybe we can get a review on this...

 

[Guest]

what about people who either can only see with one eye or only use one eye at a time.. yes well done nvidia for pushing a technology that at least 15% of your userbase cant use. *golfclap*

 

[Guest]

Nvidia documentation states that this kit DOES support CRT with minimum 100hz refresh, contrary to this review...

 

[sojrner]

[citation][nom]deltatux[/nom]I have a bad feeling this is just another gimmick and in this situation no one really needs it. I just can't imagine NVIDIA is counter-innovating. This tech has been how old? I rather stick to the true and tested 3D rendering instead of the eye-numbing "virtual 3D".[/citation]

lol, you are backwards... while both methods you have listed are actually "virtual", if one could be labled 3-D it would be the one w/ the glasses. The "true and tested" rendering is completely 2-D that just has some fake depth to it. The alternate rendering of the glasses is fake as well, but the "depth" is actually tangible.

Not defending it mind you, just pointing out that nothing we have yet is "real" 3-D. It is all virtual.

 

[techtre2003]

This is probably more like what I saw:
http://www.canvys.com/filebase/src/products/Philips3D_22+42inch.pdf

It looks like these are displays geared toward advertising. I wish I had picked up some literature from that show. I do remember that the display was just showing a slideshow of still images and not actual video. I just figured by now they would have advanced the technology.

 

[igot1forya]

Does anyone remember the VFX1 VR-Headset? That thing used two LCD screens, one for each eye. The biggest problem was that no one made drivers for it (in the days of DOS) and it was bulky. But I think with the price of LCD (and even OLED) tech being so cheap now and the screens getting smaller/lighter, someone would be able to release a similar solution and do away with the need for a 120hz screen. The VFX1 had a much wider angle of view, something like 120 degrees or something AND when you move your head you actually look around! I can only imaging playing a frag-fest when you can actually look in the direction of the gun fire (I can see nech problems though from looking too fast hehe).

Of course, we're probably talking a big chunk of change too. If it gives you an advantage or can be used for more than just games, I think people would buy it... I would I know that.

 

[noahjwhite]

Good article overall. I have the Samsung LN61A750 with samsungs shutter glasses that are very similar to these. I have to say that the effect is amazing in games. I think something that hasn't been mentioned is the perceived effect of being IN the game. Take left 4 dead for example. In 2d mode I have to sit 7 ft away from the screen. In 3D mode I sit slightly more than 2ft away. Any true gamer really should try it out. I can't personally speak on the IZ3D monitor because I haven't seen one but I believe that they are going to be on display at Fry's soon. Taking the DLP Samsung route is also relatively cheap if you are in need of a new big Screen HDTV. You get top notch 3d and 2D for

 

[cangelini]

[citation][nom]pixel67[/nom][/citation]

Nowhere is it said that you can't use an old CRT--but why would you? If you're going to spend money on a high-end graphics card and active glasses technology, a decent LCD shouldn't be too much of a stretch.

 

[Guest]

"what about people who either can only see with one eye or only use one eye at a time.."

Um, the only way you can view 3D is by having the use of both of your eyes. Yes, you can move your head if you only have the use of 1 eye to see some parallax over time, but that's not actually seeing 3D.