Power Supply limitations? I've got a Dell XPS 8300 that only has a 460 Watt Power Supply, so for people like myself that currently have a 550 TI, the 650 not only looks attractive from a performance standpoint, but from a Power Supply standpoint also. I'm intrigued by the 650 TI, going to read all the info I can, and accumulate some money, before jumping on it though. Not quite sold yet.
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Power Supply limitations? I've got a Dell XPS 8300 that only has a 460 Watt Power Supply, so for people like myself that currently have a 550 TI, the 650 not only looks attractive from a performance standpoint, but from a Power Supply standpoint also. I'm intrigued by the 650 TI, going to read all the info I can, and accumulate some money, before jumping on it though. Not quite sold yet.
That's the second time you have said the 550 TI is too slow to bother with, yet I can play Civ V, F1 2012, Diablo III, Company of Heroes, and Starcraft II, the PC games I play, at 1080p, maxed out, on my Dell XPS 8300 with an i5 2320 (3ghz) and a 550 TI. It's not the latest or greatest (and never was close) but the card is pretty solid and I have never had to turn anything down.
luciferano
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[citation][nom]jblank[/nom]That's the second time you have said the 550 TI is too slow to bother with, yet I can play Civ V, F1 2012, Diablo III, Company of Heroes, and Starcraft II, the PC games I play, at 1080p, maxed out, on my Dell XPS 8300 with an i5 2320 (3ghz) and a 550 TI. It's not the latest or greatest (and never was close) but the card is pretty solid and I have never had to turn anything down.[/citation]
Cleeve didn't say that the card is slow, just that it is too slow for this comparison.
Cleeve didn't say that the card is slow, just that it is too slow for this comparison.
And I understand that, but I always thought it was common practice to at least show the differences between an older card/processor/whatever, and its replacement. I've since found other reviews that do include it against the 550 Ti though, so it's a moot point, but I just was and still am, a bit puzzled how you could leave it out.
Not trying to be a problem, just talking is all, and I mean no disrespect.
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jblank :
And I understand that, but I always thought it was common practice to at least show the differences between an older card/processor/whatever, and its replacement. I've since found other reviews that do include it against the 550 Ti though, so it's a moot point, but I just was and still am, a bit puzzled how you could leave it out.
Not trying to be a problem, just talking is all, and I mean no disrespect.
Not trying to be a problem, just talking is all, and I mean no disrespect.
I hear you. it's just that the 550 Ti is slower than the 7770. All we'd see is a new low on the charts.
If I had infinite time I'd add every card ever made, as it was I cut it close to get it done for the launch. And given a choice I'd much rather see the 460 192-bit in there.
Sorry mate! We have to keep our comparisons focused because we tend to re-test for every launch, not use old results and drivers. Some sites do that.
Thanks for discussing it with me in a friendly manner. I'm sorry if I came off wrong, it never was my intention to make an issue of it, more just trying to wrap my head around why it wasn't included. I understand that now and again, thank you very much for your time and courtesy.
mousseng
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The 7850 is still more attractive, as its power consumption is very close to the 550ti's (and the 650ti's). Compare the 5850 to the 550ti - 5850 draws more power than the 7850, for the record.
I've always been such an "nVidia Guy" though, it's just hard for me to jump ship. I go all the way back to the original GeForce 256 and owned Ultra's of every card they offered. Just hard for me to pull the trigger on something that isn't nVidia based because their cards have never failed me and their drivers are just rock solid perfect for me.
That said, the 7850 sure seems to offer a great mix of price/power thriftness/performance.
That said, the 7850 sure seems to offer a great mix of price/power thriftness/performance.
[citation][nom]cleeve[/nom]I hear you. it's just that the 550 Ti is slower than the 7770. All we'd see is a new low on the charts.If I had infinite time I'd add every card ever made, as it was I cut it close to get it done for the launch. And given a choice I'd much rather see the 460 192-bit in there.Sorry mate![/citation]
About the 550TI....
The 550TI is still the second most used card on steam... and it was about 150$ when release
It is the new generation of that card and if you compare both the 650ti is faster than 550ti... it is good to compare apple with apple
They did a good job updating from 550ti to 650 ti for 150$ you have a much better card than what the 550ti was a year ago... the thing is ATI is aggressive with their price tag (which is a good thing) and make that card look weak compared to the 7850 which is close in price
About the 550TI....
The 550TI is still the second most used card on steam... and it was about 150$ when release
It is the new generation of that card and if you compare both the 650ti is faster than 550ti... it is good to compare apple with apple
They did a good job updating from 550ti to 650 ti for 150$ you have a much better card than what the 550ti was a year ago... the thing is ATI is aggressive with their price tag (which is a good thing) and make that card look weak compared to the 7850 which is close in price
I feel like chiming in on this discussion. The debate seems to be between the:
1. "Lets compare current cards to other current cards at similar price points in order to show value for those shopping for an upgrade"
2. "How much better is this card over my older card. Will this be a worthwhile upgrade? If so, then about how much extra performance will I see?"
Both are worthwhile arguments and are viable ways to perform benchmarks and comparisons to. Now lets take this debate and apply it to the type of shoppers we are dealing with.
Argument #1 carries the most weight with those individuals who upgrade their GPUs on a yearly or biyearly basis. These types of individuals are generally the serious gamers who wish to run the latest games on the highest possible setting. These individuals also generally have the disposable income to pull this off.
Argument #2 generally applies to those individuals who love to game, but don't have the resources to constantly buy new hardware. These individuals generally wait a few years between each upgrade. Since money is probably tight, they need to make sure that such an upgrade is worth it to them. As such, these individuals tend to aim for lower priced cards.
Going off of those arguments, we can say that for articles about high-end cards only argument #1 has any real relevancy. For articles about lower-priced cards, argument #2 has some real relevancy. If I may add a suggestion here: perhaps in the future, adding some older cards to the list to comparisons may help some of your readers and help curb some of the needless arguments in the comments section.
Anyways, this is only my observation as a reader at THG. Take it for what you will.
Toodles!
1. "Lets compare current cards to other current cards at similar price points in order to show value for those shopping for an upgrade"
2. "How much better is this card over my older card. Will this be a worthwhile upgrade? If so, then about how much extra performance will I see?"
Both are worthwhile arguments and are viable ways to perform benchmarks and comparisons to. Now lets take this debate and apply it to the type of shoppers we are dealing with.
Argument #1 carries the most weight with those individuals who upgrade their GPUs on a yearly or biyearly basis. These types of individuals are generally the serious gamers who wish to run the latest games on the highest possible setting. These individuals also generally have the disposable income to pull this off.
Argument #2 generally applies to those individuals who love to game, but don't have the resources to constantly buy new hardware. These individuals generally wait a few years between each upgrade. Since money is probably tight, they need to make sure that such an upgrade is worth it to them. As such, these individuals tend to aim for lower priced cards.
Going off of those arguments, we can say that for articles about high-end cards only argument #1 has any real relevancy. For articles about lower-priced cards, argument #2 has some real relevancy. If I may add a suggestion here: perhaps in the future, adding some older cards to the list to comparisons may help some of your readers and help curb some of the needless arguments in the comments section.
Anyways, this is only my observation as a reader at THG. Take it for what you will.
Toodles!
I made a bit of a mistake with my post. When I said:
"If I may add a suggestion here: perhaps in the future, adding some older cards to the list to comparisons may help some of your readers and help curb some of the needless arguments in the comments section."
I meant to say:
"If I may add a suggestion here: perhaps in the future, adding some older cards to the articles about lower priced cards to the list may help some of your readers and help curb some of the needless arguments in the comments section."
"If I may add a suggestion here: perhaps in the future, adding some older cards to the list to comparisons may help some of your readers and help curb some of the needless arguments in the comments section."
I meant to say:
"If I may add a suggestion here: perhaps in the future, adding some older cards to the articles about lower priced cards to the list may help some of your readers and help curb some of the needless arguments in the comments section."
luciferano
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@just A Comment
The problem is that the 460 192 bit's placement is kinda obvious if you actually think about it.
Also, it's not expensive to upgrade every year. You simply sell the previous card before buying a new one. Technically, the faster you can upgrade, the more value you're likely to get out of selling an older card. It can be cheaper to upgrae often than to upgrade less often.
The problem is that the 460 192 bit's placement is kinda obvious if you actually think about it.
Also, it's not expensive to upgrade every year. You simply sell the previous card before buying a new one. Technically, the faster you can upgrade, the more value you're likely to get out of selling an older card. It can be cheaper to upgrae often than to upgrade less often.
Normally I would agree, but I sold one and ONLY one video card on eBay and it was a disaster of monumental proportions. In fact, my only negative feedback in over 2000 transaction was because of a buyer that basically lied to me and eBay about the condition of the card and it was an absolute chore to win the claim he filed against me. I vowed never again to sell PC equipment on eBay so it kinda makes it hard to sell cards if none of your friends are PC gamers (they are all on consoles).
I find that this review is actually far more useful than the 660non-ti review(the last one is a disaster by leaving out important 7770 from 650 @ high detail bench). This one has all the important competitors like 7770/6870/6850/560/460/650/660 and all of them are tested on a non-AA and AA benchmark to show the weakest area the 650ti has = memory bus + ROP.
being include the 460 192bit still plays a major factor here. How would a extra bus speed be useful. 256bit 460 can be seen using 560 non-ti. 550ti? oh well, take a look at the 650non-ti review will do.
being include the 460 192bit still plays a major factor here. How would a extra bus speed be useful. 256bit 460 can be seen using 560 non-ti. 550ti? oh well, take a look at the 650non-ti review will do.
luciferano
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[citation][nom]jblank[/nom]Normally I would agree, but I sold one and ONLY one video card on eBay and it was a disaster of monumental proportions. In fact, my only negative feedback in over 2000 transaction was because of a buyer that basically lied to me and eBay about the condition of the card and it was an absolute chore to win the claim he filed against me. I vowed never again to sell PC equipment on eBay so it kinda makes it hard to sell cards if none of your friends are PC gamers (they are all on consoles).[/citation]
I usually don't have issues selling on Ebay, but I also sell on sites such as Amazon and others as well as locally when I can.
I usually don't have issues selling on Ebay, but I also sell on sites such as Amazon and others as well as locally when I can.
mapesdhs
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[citation][nom]Dax Corrin[/nom]After being an NVidia-only buyer for some time now, AMD's cards are looking better and better. I'm sticking with my GTX 460 1GB a while longer, looking to find another one to SLI.[/citation]
There are plenty on eBay; recently I bagged a Palit Sonic Platinum (800MHz core,
256bit) for 71.50 UKP, a card which I'm sure would easily beat a 650 Ti. Before
that I won a boxed new Gainward 460 256bit 715MHz for 61.50 UKP.
I don't know why the 460 192bit was included. They were not available for that
long when new, not many places sold them and nowhere has them now. Plus, when
they were available, the only model that made any sense to buy was the EVGA
version with 867MHz core which is actually quite a decent card (and it oc's
like crazy, mine easily reaches 1025MHz) - it was cheaper than all the other
models, plus I don't remember seeing a ref-clocked 192bit 460 for sale.
The review should have included a normal 460 256bit in the medium clock range
that was available, ie. 715 to 775MHz (nobody in their right mind bought a ref-
clocked version since they cost more than oc'd editions), even though for ages
here in the UK the best price/performance option was the 800MHz Platinum.
As it is, the review could allow one to infer that the 650Ti is a decent bit
better than a 460, but that is definitely not the case.
What does the 650Ti give for 3DMark11 Performance? Can you run this please? I have
lots of datapoints for 460s (single & SLI) and other cards:
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/pctests.html
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/tests-jj.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/stalkercopbench.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/x3tcbench.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/uniginebench.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/uniginebench2.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/uniginebench3.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/viewperf.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/cinebench.html
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/aebench.html
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/ptboats.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/callofjuarez.txt
I've not done the 3DMark11 page yet, but here are some examples:
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/3963726
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/3963810
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/3215406
Dax Corrin, what model 460 do you have?
Ian.
There are plenty on eBay; recently I bagged a Palit Sonic Platinum (800MHz core,
256bit) for 71.50 UKP, a card which I'm sure would easily beat a 650 Ti. Before
that I won a boxed new Gainward 460 256bit 715MHz for 61.50 UKP.
I don't know why the 460 192bit was included. They were not available for that
long when new, not many places sold them and nowhere has them now. Plus, when
they were available, the only model that made any sense to buy was the EVGA
version with 867MHz core which is actually quite a decent card (and it oc's
like crazy, mine easily reaches 1025MHz) - it was cheaper than all the other
models, plus I don't remember seeing a ref-clocked 192bit 460 for sale.
The review should have included a normal 460 256bit in the medium clock range
that was available, ie. 715 to 775MHz (nobody in their right mind bought a ref-
clocked version since they cost more than oc'd editions), even though for ages
here in the UK the best price/performance option was the 800MHz Platinum.
As it is, the review could allow one to infer that the 650Ti is a decent bit
better than a 460, but that is definitely not the case.
What does the 650Ti give for 3DMark11 Performance? Can you run this please? I have
lots of datapoints for 460s (single & SLI) and other cards:
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/pctests.html
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/tests-jj.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/stalkercopbench.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/x3tcbench.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/uniginebench.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/uniginebench2.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/uniginebench3.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/viewperf.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/cinebench.html
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/aebench.html
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/ptboats.txt
http://www.sgidepot.co.uk/misc/callofjuarez.txt
I've not done the 3DMark11 page yet, but here are some examples:
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/3963726
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/3963810
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/3215406
Dax Corrin, what model 460 do you have?
Ian.
mapesdhs
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[citation][nom]cleeve[/nom]I chose the 460 192-bit because it has been available longer, ...[/citation]
But it was not the most popular version. The vast majority of people bought the 256bit edition.
In the UK the 460 256bit hung around much longer than the 460 SE, while the 460 V2 wasn't
available for very long at all, and some sellers didn't even stock them.
Ian.
But it was not the most popular version. The vast majority of people bought the 256bit edition.
In the UK the 460 256bit hung around much longer than the 460 SE, while the 460 V2 wasn't
available for very long at all, and some sellers didn't even stock them.
Ian.
[citation][nom]hasten[/nom]Really? I find the lack of a GTX 560 ti and 7850 2gb totally lacking. At least add in the cards that are nominally more expensive for comparison - they included a GTX 660 which destroys a 7850 2gb. Just saying...[/citation]660 is there for a reason on how would a full GK106 perform should they not come with a 128bit memory bus. U cannot tell that if u are using 560ti only.
it is true I agree that tom should test 2GB version of 7850 but 560ti is a waste of time. It doesnt take a genius to know how fast a 560ti would be when the chart already shows 560.
it is true I agree that tom should test 2GB version of 7850 but 560ti is a waste of time. It doesnt take a genius to know how fast a 560ti would be when the chart already shows 560.
jblank,
Friendly piece of advice (regardless of brand bias) - your upgrade strategy for graphics is all wrong. You bought a GTX550Ti last year and likely paid $100-150 for it. Now you are looking to upgrade to a $150 GTX650Ti. If you don't sell your old GPUs, that's a total amount of $250-300 wasted on low-end GPUs. Instead you could have bought an HD6950 2GB or even GTX570 last year and ended up with far faster performance all of last year and for the next 12 months since 650Ti is still slower than 6950/570 and by a lot.
Secondly, your PSU in the dell, if it doesn't have 30A on 12V rail, just ditch it and get yourself a new PSU or you'll continue wasting $ on crappy GPUs like GTX550Ti and 650Ti. A PSU is something that lasts a long time and it is well worth the investment:
http://www.amazon.com/PC-Power-Cooling-Performance-compatible/dp/B003U29C3Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349837262&sr=8-1&keywords=pc+power
As far as this card goes, it continues the trend this generation of NV overpricing cards (other than initial 670/680 launch).
HD7770 can be found for $105-115 on Newegg and is only about 13-15% slower than the $150 GTX650Ti
HD7850 1GB can be found for $165-175 and is 30-40% faster than GTX650Ti for just $15-25 more! (talk about a bargain price/performance curve on the 7850 side).
Myself I wouldn't buy a 1GB card by now. I'd rather spend $20 more for a 2GB. That brings us to GTX650Ti 2GB that goes for $170 on Newegg vs. $180-190 for 7850 2GB. There have already been sales of $195-200 for HD7870 on Newegg and that card is 60% faster than GTX650Ti 2GB. This just goes to show how horribly overpriced 650Ti is.
NV just disguised the poor price/performance by offering a game coupon for Assassin's Creed 3 and comparing GTX650Ti to 7770 in their marketing slides. Unfortunately, the average consumer looking to buy sub-$150 card is often very uninformed, which is the only way it can be explained how GTX550Ti sold well last year when HD6850 and 6870 were going for $130-150 for at least 12 months since last summer.
Friendly piece of advice (regardless of brand bias) - your upgrade strategy for graphics is all wrong. You bought a GTX550Ti last year and likely paid $100-150 for it. Now you are looking to upgrade to a $150 GTX650Ti. If you don't sell your old GPUs, that's a total amount of $250-300 wasted on low-end GPUs. Instead you could have bought an HD6950 2GB or even GTX570 last year and ended up with far faster performance all of last year and for the next 12 months since 650Ti is still slower than 6950/570 and by a lot.
Secondly, your PSU in the dell, if it doesn't have 30A on 12V rail, just ditch it and get yourself a new PSU or you'll continue wasting $ on crappy GPUs like GTX550Ti and 650Ti. A PSU is something that lasts a long time and it is well worth the investment:
http://www.amazon.com/PC-Power-Cooling-Performance-compatible/dp/B003U29C3Q/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1349837262&sr=8-1&keywords=pc+power
As far as this card goes, it continues the trend this generation of NV overpricing cards (other than initial 670/680 launch).
HD7770 can be found for $105-115 on Newegg and is only about 13-15% slower than the $150 GTX650Ti
HD7850 1GB can be found for $165-175 and is 30-40% faster than GTX650Ti for just $15-25 more! (talk about a bargain price/performance curve on the 7850 side).
Myself I wouldn't buy a 1GB card by now. I'd rather spend $20 more for a 2GB. That brings us to GTX650Ti 2GB that goes for $170 on Newegg vs. $180-190 for 7850 2GB. There have already been sales of $195-200 for HD7870 on Newegg and that card is 60% faster than GTX650Ti 2GB. This just goes to show how horribly overpriced 650Ti is.
NV just disguised the poor price/performance by offering a game coupon for Assassin's Creed 3 and comparing GTX650Ti to 7770 in their marketing slides. Unfortunately, the average consumer looking to buy sub-$150 card is often very uninformed, which is the only way it can be explained how GTX550Ti sold well last year when HD6850 and 6870 were going for $130-150 for at least 12 months since last summer.
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