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You heard it here first: Black Friday 2024 has arrived!
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meluvcookies
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- Dec 28, 2009
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I can't help but feel that this is a bit of a joke when you consider that the GTX460 offers very comparable performance and was only $50 more than this card two YEARS ago. I'd say I got that $50 dollars worth of value. I guess I'll upgrade next year.
Wisecracker
Splendid
- Jan 15, 2007
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army_ant7 :
...
How could you say this? Are you saying that they've probably stopped manufacturing HD 7850 chips and are already almost done manufacturing HD 8850 chips or something?
...
How could you say this? Are you saying that they've probably stopped manufacturing HD 7850 chips and are already almost done manufacturing HD 8850 chips or something?
...I said HD7850 production to AMD is essentially EOL to them because it is true -- and I don't think you understand the meaning of going into *Final Production* as I referenced as likely for the Radeon 8xxx series.
The Radeon Sea Islands 8000-series taped-out in late May or early June of this year. That means the design is complete and delivered to the Fab -- and it takes AMD product roughly 6-7 months from the point of *tape-out* to reach retail shelves (nVidia typically takes a bit longer).
If early *spins* are low risk, meaning minimal on a mature process and design, roughly 6 weeks/each is generally accepted. I have no idea how TSMC and AMD work their early spins, but suspect they are *multi-project* endeavors which group a wild mix of CPU and GPU dies. I don't know their testing regiments, either, put they could easily run 2-3 weeks. And being that AMD and TSMC have been [strike]plotting[/strike] working together for nearly four years on bulk (and a little SOI) wafers, they likely have an excellent design and process relationship.
Early spins allow estimates on process yield-rates and *binning* Once everyone is happy, they enter Final Production with WWW wafer-starts over XXX weeks, likely ramping to a more robust YYY wafer-starts over ZZZ weeks as the process matures and yields improve.
Then, they wafer-stop. :lol:
I have no idea, but will guess the dies from an individual wafer-start at final production take 10-12 weeks to retail package accounting for process, testing and OEM assembly.
Meaning that the Radeon Sea Islands are likely entering final production as we type [:lutfij:4]
eddieroolz
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- Sep 6, 2008
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Considering that the vast majority of people are still using displays that are smaller than 1080p, the decision to trim the memory bus and focus on
luciferano
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- Sep 24, 2012
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[citation][nom]oxford373[/nom]thanks toms nice review,but i would rather play games maxedout at 1680resolution than 1920medium-high...IMO games graphics is much more important than resolution.[/citation]
Most people play at 1080p nowadays. I agree that 1680x1050 or 1600x900 would also have been nice, but 1080p seems no less important. If I had to estimate, I'd say that a lower resolution with higher graphics would increase the ratio of memory bandwidth to GPU performance needed towards memory bandwidth and would have been a little less forgiving for the 650 Ti.
Most people play at 1080p nowadays. I agree that 1680x1050 or 1600x900 would also have been nice, but 1080p seems no less important. If I had to estimate, I'd say that a lower resolution with higher graphics would increase the ratio of memory bandwidth to GPU performance needed towards memory bandwidth and would have been a little less forgiving for the 650 Ti.
@Wisecracker
Thanks for that info.
BTW, just in case, I didn't mean to sound like you were wrong. What I said was really just a mild-toned question. Sorry if I seemed offensive in anyway. When I see you around the forums, you seem pretty well-mannered so I didn't want to come off as offensive.
Mind explaining what a "spin" is? Thanks!
Thanks for that info.
BTW, just in case, I didn't mean to sound like you were wrong. What I said was really just a mild-toned question. Sorry if I seemed offensive in anyway. When I see you around the forums, you seem pretty well-mannered so I didn't want to come off as offensive.
Mind explaining what a "spin" is? Thanks!
luciferano
Honorable
- Sep 24, 2012
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[citation][nom]jackt[/nom]Wait a minute, why is it slower than the 650 ???[/citation]
The 650 Ti is faster than the 650 in almost everything.
The 650 Ti is faster than the 650 in almost everything.
Wisecracker
Splendid
- Jan 15, 2007
- 8,104
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army_ant7 :
@Wisecracker
Thanks for that info.
BTW, just in case, I didn't mean to sound like you were wrong. What I said was really just a mild-toned question. Sorry if I seemed offensive in anyway. When I see you around the forums, you seem pretty well-mannered so I didn't want to come off as offensive.
Mind explaining what a "spin" is? Thanks!
Thanks for that info.
BTW, just in case, I didn't mean to sound like you were wrong. What I said was really just a mild-toned question. Sorry if I seemed offensive in anyway. When I see you around the forums, you seem pretty well-mannered so I didn't want to come off as offensive.
Mind explaining what a "spin" is? Thanks!
No worries, mate ... hope I didn't come off as a *ick. We're all here to share and learn
(other than the trolling fanbots
!)It's simply a test run of the manufacturing of the die. TSMC has XXX capacity of 28nm wafer-starts. When they roll, they want to roll wide-open and produce high-yield stuff.
There are certainly others around with better knowledge, and the ""*multi-project* test-spins -- wild mix of CPU and GPU dies"" is simply a crazy scientific-method guess - LOL
As an example, AMD has entered *tape-out* on the Kaveri APU (Son of Trinity), or certainly will in the next month or so. Kaveri is 28nm Piledriver CPU modules and 28nm Cape Verde GCN cores connected via a unified memory structure.
TSMC and AMD drag some over-lapping design/process forward with Kaveri while working in the new stuff, too, and 'building bridges' to the next-gen Steamroller.
It would also not surprise me to hear that Germany and Taiwan (along with Luther Forest) jet unfinished wafers between each other and share mask-sets. These are all smart design/process guys (and girls), and AMD, now fab-less, wants to sync-up across as much product as possible.
ojas
Distinguished
- Feb 25, 2011
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@Don
Thanks for the discussion and insights...sorry if my initial reaction came off a bit trollish, was just a bit sleepy at that time
but on the HTPC thing...specifically the TV...i suspect that, if you look at the global picture, 1080p is usually too expensive. I'm saying this on the basis of my country (India), and that's 1/6 of the world population right there. A decent (rather, major brand like Sony or Panasonic) 30" 1080p TV ususally costs over $600, which is more than what most would spend on a TV here.
So that's really why i raised the 720p thing. But yeah i guess for Europe, US, Canada, Japan and South Korea you'd be right...
Thanks for the discussion and insights...sorry if my initial reaction came off a bit trollish, was just a bit sleepy at that time
but on the HTPC thing...specifically the TV...i suspect that, if you look at the global picture, 1080p is usually too expensive. I'm saying this on the basis of my country (India), and that's 1/6 of the world population right there. A decent (rather, major brand like Sony or Panasonic) 30" 1080p TV ususally costs over $600, which is more than what most would spend on a TV here.
So that's really why i raised the 720p thing. But yeah i guess for Europe, US, Canada, Japan and South Korea you'd be right...
luciferano
Honorable
- Sep 24, 2012
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[citation][nom]ojas[/nom]@DonThanks for the discussion and insights...sorry if my initial reaction came off a bit trollish, was just a bit sleepy at that time but on the HTPC thing...specifically the TV...i suspect that, if you look at the global picture, 1080p is usually too expensive. I'm saying this on the basis of my country (India), and that's 1/6 of the world population right there. A decent (rather, major brand like Sony or Panasonic) 30" 1080p TV ususally costs over $600, which is more than what most would spend on a TV here.So that's really why i raised the 720p thing. But yeah i guess for Europe, US, Canada, Japan and South Korea you'd be right...[/citation]
Are 21-14" displays not available for far less money than this 30" example? Most 1080p displays that we play on are not 30" nor even 27", but mere 21" to 24" displays.
For example, here in the USA, I can get a half-decent 21.5" or 22" LED or non-LED 1080p display for $100-150, but a good 27" or 30" 1080p display is generally over two and a half to several hundred dollars USD.
Are 21-14" displays not available for far less money than this 30" example? Most 1080p displays that we play on are not 30" nor even 27", but mere 21" to 24" displays.
For example, here in the USA, I can get a half-decent 21.5" or 22" LED or non-LED 1080p display for $100-150, but a good 27" or 30" 1080p display is generally over two and a half to several hundred dollars USD.
Wisecracker :
No worries, mate ... hope I didn't come off as a *ick. We're all here to share and learn
(other than the trolling fanbots !)
It's simply a test run of the manufacturing of the die. TSMC has XXX capacity of 28nm wafer-starts. When they roll, they want to roll wide-open and produce high-yield stuff.
There are certainly others around with better knowledge, and the ""*multi-project* test-spins -- wild mix of CPU and GPU dies"" is simply a crazy scientific-method guess - LOL
As an example, AMD has entered *tape-out* on the Kaveri APU (Son of Trinity), or certainly will in the next month or so. Kaveri is 28nm Piledriver CPU modules and 28nm Cape Verde GCN cores connected via a unified memory structure.
TSMC and AMD drag some over-lapping design/process forward with Kaveri while working in the new stuff, too, and 'building bridges' to the next-gen Steamroller.
It would also not surprise me to hear that Germany and Taiwan (along with Luther Forest) jet unfinished wafers between each other and share mask-sets. These are all smart design/process guys (and girls), and AMD, now fab-less, wants to sync-up across as much product as possible.
(other than the trolling fanbots
!)It's simply a test run of the manufacturing of the die. TSMC has XXX capacity of 28nm wafer-starts. When they roll, they want to roll wide-open and produce high-yield stuff.
There are certainly others around with better knowledge, and the ""*multi-project* test-spins -- wild mix of CPU and GPU dies"" is simply a crazy scientific-method guess - LOL
As an example, AMD has entered *tape-out* on the Kaveri APU (Son of Trinity), or certainly will in the next month or so. Kaveri is 28nm Piledriver CPU modules and 28nm Cape Verde GCN cores connected via a unified memory structure.
TSMC and AMD drag some over-lapping design/process forward with Kaveri while working in the new stuff, too, and 'building bridges' to the next-gen Steamroller.
It would also not surprise me to hear that Germany and Taiwan (along with Luther Forest) jet unfinished wafers between each other and share mask-sets. These are all smart design/process guys (and girls), and AMD, now fab-less, wants to sync-up across as much product as possible.
In that last paragraph, are you saying that AMD may choose to have other fab companies join in production as well?I could be wrong, but wouldn't Kaveri use Steamroller cores, not Piledriver ones?
That APU may be the most exciting one by far since it integrates the latest (not last generation) architectures for both it's CPU and GPU components. This assuming that GCN would stick around for the HD 8000 series, though I bet they may have done some improvements and optimizations to the architecture (which I hope they would have enough time and the ability to integrate with Kaveri. Not to mention those improvements like memory coherency (or something like that) where RAM doesn't have to be as divided between the CPU and GPU in a way, though it may only benefit GPGPU applications, though I hope it affects graphics performance as well, somehow. This may be what you referred to as a "unified memory structure."
mapesdhs
Distinguished
- Jan 22, 2007
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Ah the lure of 1080p... once you've used 1200 height displays though, you can't go back.
I recently bought a Dell UltraSharp U2412M 1920x1200 IPS; very nice display, just
a dribble over 200 UKP (~ $320 US), well worth the extra compared to a TN 1080 model.
I don't know how people can use 1080 displays, I find the lack of height too annoying,
especially for web browsing, documents, etc.
Ian.
I recently bought a Dell UltraSharp U2412M 1920x1200 IPS; very nice display, just
a dribble over 200 UKP (~ $320 US), well worth the extra compared to a TN 1080 model.
I don't know how people can use 1080 displays, I find the lack of height too annoying,
especially for web browsing, documents, etc.
Ian.
- Mar 7, 2003
- 12,012
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ojas :
@Don
Thanks for the discussion and insights...sorry if my initial reaction came off a bit trollish, was just a bit sleepy at that time
but on the HTPC thing...specifically the TV...i suspect that, if you look at the global picture, 1080p is usually too expensive. I'm saying this on the basis of my country (India), and that's 1/6 of the world population right there. A decent (rather, major brand like Sony or Panasonic) 30" 1080p TV ususally costs over $600, which is more than what most would spend on a TV here.
So that's really why i raised the 720p thing. But yeah i guess for Europe, US, Canada, Japan and South Korea you'd be right...
Thanks for the discussion and insights...sorry if my initial reaction came off a bit trollish, was just a bit sleepy at that time
but on the HTPC thing...specifically the TV...i suspect that, if you look at the global picture, 1080p is usually too expensive. I'm saying this on the basis of my country (India), and that's 1/6 of the world population right there. A decent (rather, major brand like Sony or Panasonic) 30" 1080p TV ususally costs over $600, which is more than what most would spend on a TV here.
So that's really why i raised the 720p thing. But yeah i guess for Europe, US, Canada, Japan and South Korea you'd be right...
No worries bro!
I admit I'm not up on typical Indian resolutions and for that I apologize. I'm writing from the privileged North American perspective, unfortunately.
ojas
Distinguished
- Feb 25, 2011
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[citation][nom]luciferano[/nom]Are 21-14" displays not available for far less money than this 30" example? Most 1080p displays that we play on are not 30" nor even 27", but mere 21" to 24" displays.For example, here in the USA, I can get a half-decent 21.5" or 22" LED or non-LED 1080p display for $100-150, but a good 27" or 30" 1080p display is generally over two and a half to several hundred dollars USD.[/citation]
Those usually don't have 1080p. I'm talking TVs, not monitors. Good 1080p monitors have hit the $200 mark recently.
[citation][nom]army_ant7[/nom]I understand what you're saying here, ojas, but I'm thinking that the article should cater to the bigger market first (thus being more helpful to the most possible readers). Unless a huge percent of your population in India (and other countries) play hardcore games and more so purchase the hardware (less than 1080p), it may be a lot less compared to the populations in other places that purchase and game on 1080p. I don't mean to come of as offensive in anyway.[/citation]
Well, nvidia's PR told me that we're their third largest market after the US and Europe (i think she said second after the US, but i sort of doubt that) because of the sheer number of people here...so that's all i have on that front
But yeah:
if techpowerup's map is anything to go by...
[citation][nom]cleeve[/nom]I admit I'm not up on typical Indian resolutions and for that I apologize.[/citation]
Nothing to apologize for, i probably wouldn't know about monitor resolutions in the US or Europe if it wasn't for Tom's and the rest of the internet
Those usually don't have 1080p. I'm talking TVs, not monitors. Good 1080p monitors have hit the $200 mark recently.
[citation][nom]army_ant7[/nom]I understand what you're saying here, ojas, but I'm thinking that the article should cater to the bigger market first (thus being more helpful to the most possible readers). Unless a huge percent of your population in India (and other countries) play hardcore games and more so purchase the hardware (less than 1080p), it may be a lot less compared to the populations in other places that purchase and game on 1080p. I don't mean to come of as offensive in anyway.[/citation]
Well, nvidia's PR told me that we're their third largest market after the US and Europe (i think she said second after the US, but i sort of doubt that) because of the sheer number of people here...so that's all i have on that front
But yeah:
if techpowerup's map is anything to go by...
[citation][nom]cleeve[/nom]I admit I'm not up on typical Indian resolutions and for that I apologize.[/citation]
Nothing to apologize for, i probably wouldn't know about monitor resolutions in the US or Europe if it wasn't for Tom's and the rest of the internet
CheesyHotDogPuff
Honorable
- Sep 12, 2012
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If this had gpu boost, 192 memory bus, and sli, this could've been a great success for nvidia. Instead, I feel nvidia failed in the sub $300 market. This is coming from a guy who has used nvidia for the past 7 years.
CheesyHotDogPuff
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- Sep 12, 2012
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Coltmerg420
Honorable
- Oct 4, 2013
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Hi i use NVIDA /control panel/ Performance /Device settings ,,,and use it's over clocker ,the number i use make no sense so don't ask but i set them to ////Graphics clock to 600 Mhz and memory clock to 3300 Mhz ,I then use AIDA 64 Extreme Ed to check my temps and over clocking i use its GPU stress tool and get thees numbers //Graphics clock 1136
memory clock 1653
Galaxy GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost 2 GB This is my model I get 69 FPS in Black ops 2 full extreme settings maxed out my temp stays around 105 F
memory clock 1653
Galaxy GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost 2 GB This is my model I get 69 FPS in Black ops 2 full extreme settings maxed out my temp stays around 105 F
Coltmerg420
Honorable
- Oct 4, 2013
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Yes on some models mi
Galaxy GeForce GTX 650 Ti Boost 2 GB has a SLI connecter but it can only be SLI with 2 no more then that,triple and quad will not work
Coltmerg420
Honorable
- Oct 4, 2013
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AMD is great for CPU's and APU chep fast and well made but there grafix is way to slow and costly for me ,Nvida all the way for GPU
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