- Status
rglaredo
Honorable
- Mar 26, 2012
- 170
- 0
- 10,690
excellent review ..why even bother hyping us for something that is nowhere to be found? ...yea all the 600's will be better than AMD's...but as of today ...AMD is the only true option ...because they are in stock ...so why bother to sit and wait ..and wait ...and wait ..or go to ebay or amazon and pay an extra premium on those cards ?? hell no...
chesteracorgi
Distinguished
- Apr 11, 2011
- 1,956
- 0
- 20,460
What will AMD do with the 7990 to beat out the GTX 690? It seems the only niche where they have a chabnce to beat Nvidia.
blazorthon
Glorious
- Sep 24, 2010
- 14,022
- 21
- 43,265
[citation][nom]Chesteracorgi[/nom]What will AMD do with the 7990 to beat out the GTX 690? It seems the only niche where they have a chabnce to beat Nvidia.[/citation]
AMD would need to raise clocks on their Tahitis in the 7990 to beat the 690 for most games, from the looks of this. We might know more about what needs to be done after a review of the 7970s versus 680s, both full updated and including overclocking results.
Regardless, the 7990 would probably need two Tahitis with at least 1GHz clock frequencies to fight the 690 for most games, probably even higher, at least until the 690's mere 2GB of VRAM becomes a limitation (5760x1080 and 5760x1200 can choke 2GB if AA is too high in some games). Unless AMD can make even better power efficiency improvements on the 7990 compared to the 7970 than Nvidia did with the 690 compared to the 680, it won't be easy.
Besides that, the 7970 keeps up with the 680 more than well enough. The problem now is the spread between the 670 and 7950 (at stock, reference clocks, of course).
AMD would need to raise clocks on their Tahitis in the 7990 to beat the 690 for most games, from the looks of this. We might know more about what needs to be done after a review of the 7970s versus 680s, both full updated and including overclocking results.
Regardless, the 7990 would probably need two Tahitis with at least 1GHz clock frequencies to fight the 690 for most games, probably even higher, at least until the 690's mere 2GB of VRAM becomes a limitation (5760x1080 and 5760x1200 can choke 2GB if AA is too high in some games). Unless AMD can make even better power efficiency improvements on the 7990 compared to the 7970 than Nvidia did with the 690 compared to the 680, it won't be easy.
Besides that, the 7970 keeps up with the 680 more than well enough. The problem now is the spread between the 670 and 7950 (at stock, reference clocks, of course).
supr3m3justic3
Distinguished
- Dec 9, 2011
- 25
- 0
- 18,530
supr3m3justic3
Distinguished
- Dec 9, 2011
- 25
- 0
- 18,530
Ok 4.5% less performance and $100 less cost, now its time for the $200 less cost 10% less performance 660ti!
eddieroolz
Splendid
- Sep 6, 2008
- 7,057
- 0
- 25,860
Metroidam11
Honorable
- Feb 19, 2012
- 25
- 0
- 10,530
They make a good point with the whole chess thing. Anyone know how much it actually causes the manufacturer to make these cards? How much profit is Nvidia or EVGA getting from selling a $400 card?
eddieroolz
Splendid
- Sep 6, 2008
- 7,057
- 0
- 25,860
[citation][nom]BigMack70[/nom]What I'm curious about is: would the market have a place for a dual GTX 670 card priced around $750-800? My guess is that a dual GTX 670 card would occupy the same market slot as the eventual 7990, preventing AMD from undercutting Nvidia on price.Don't think NVDA can supply enough GK104 to do that, but it would be sweet.[/citation]
I remember in the days of Radeon 4000, Sapphire did that with a 4850X2. It was more expensive than a GTX 275 and didn't perform that well, so it remained kind of obscure.
Then last generation EVGA made a GTX 570 2Win or something that combined 2 GTX 570 onto one PCB. That actually performed very admirably.
I personally would love to see a GTX 685, combining 2 GTX 670 GPUs, priced at $750.
I remember in the days of Radeon 4000, Sapphire did that with a 4850X2. It was more expensive than a GTX 275 and didn't perform that well, so it remained kind of obscure.
Then last generation EVGA made a GTX 570 2Win or something that combined 2 GTX 570 onto one PCB. That actually performed very admirably.
I personally would love to see a GTX 685, combining 2 GTX 670 GPUs, priced at $750.
wiyosaya
Distinguished
- Apr 12, 2006
- 915
- 1
- 18,990
I was in the market for a new graphics card as I am completing a new build. I shied away from AMD because they are not as widely supported for BOINC projects, and given the double-precision processing power of the nVidia 6XX series, I also shied away from them I ended up with a 1.5GB GTX 580 that I got for $378 new after rebate. Availability problems of 6XX series solved for me. 
Seems like recent releases have been a one-up-manship between the two companies. I think it is unfortunate in that they are both, as I see it, pushing vaporware. It seems less than productive and a disservice to their customers to not have enough product to fill demands.
Then again, in economic theory, it is well known that high demand and low supply push prices and profits higher. Perhaps this is the reason both AMD and nVidia are selling cards with limited supplies. I share the same viewpoint. Even though my main use is presently not gaming, we both want cards to be available.
Seems like recent releases have been a one-up-manship between the two companies. I think it is unfortunate in that they are both, as I see it, pushing vaporware. It seems less than productive and a disservice to their customers to not have enough product to fill demands.
Then again, in economic theory, it is well known that high demand and low supply push prices and profits higher. Perhaps this is the reason both AMD and nVidia are selling cards with limited supplies. I share the same viewpoint. Even though my main use is presently not gaming, we both want cards to be available.
esrever
Splendid
- Dec 27, 2011
- 5,386
- 0
- 26,160
[citation][nom]cangelini[/nom]Please feel free to suggest games you'd like to see added! I've been running this collection of what I consider to be pretty-popular titles, but am always happy to add more, time permitting. Getting this piece finished in time was hard enough after the requests to re-run all of the cards using the latest drivers in the GTX 690 story, but we did what we could to address that one. As mentioned, though, the German team does use a different suite on the charts with a more spread-out emphasis that includes older titles, too.[/citation]some games that would be nice would be:
Alan Wake, Portal 2, Witcher 2, AvP, Civ 5 and Total War: shogun 2.
Alan Wake, Portal 2, Witcher 2, AvP, Civ 5 and Total War: shogun 2.
blazorthon
Glorious
- Sep 24, 2010
- 14,022
- 21
- 43,265
[citation][nom]wiyosaya[/nom]I was in the market for a new graphics card as I am completing a new build. I shied away from AMD because they are not as widely supported for BOINC projects, and given the double-precision processing power of the nVidia 6XX series, I also shied away from them I ended up with a 1.5GB GTX 580 that I got for $378 new after rebate. Availability problems of 6XX series solved for me. Seems like recent releases have been a one-up-manship between the two companies. I think it is unfortunate in that they are both, as I see it, pushing vaporware. It seems less than productive and a disservice to their customers to not have enough product to fill demands.Then again, in economic theory, it is well known that high demand and low supply push prices and profits higher. Perhaps this is the reason both AMD and nVidia are selling cards with limited supplies. I share the same viewpoint. Even though my main use is presently not gaming, we both want cards to be available.[/citation]
Both companies pushing vaporware? Just going to newegg, you'll see over 70 in-stock AMD models (ranging from the 7750 to 7970) and less than 10 in stock Nvidia models (ranging from the 670 to 690). It's just Nvidia who is having supply problems. AMD has plenty of supply.
EDIT: I just counted and newegg has 6 cards in stock out of 23 total (only new 670s are in stock, that probably won't last long. There is a seventh 670 that is already out of stock) and AMD has 73 out of 84 cards in stock (5 7850s out of 11 are out, 1 7870 out of 15, 1 7950 out of 13, and four out of 20 7970s, all 12 7750s and all 13 7770s are in stock). AMD has plenty of cards in stock and Nvidia has only 670s.
Both companies pushing vaporware? Just going to newegg, you'll see over 70 in-stock AMD models (ranging from the 7750 to 7970) and less than 10 in stock Nvidia models (ranging from the 670 to 690). It's just Nvidia who is having supply problems. AMD has plenty of supply.
EDIT: I just counted and newegg has 6 cards in stock out of 23 total (only new 670s are in stock, that probably won't last long. There is a seventh 670 that is already out of stock) and AMD has 73 out of 84 cards in stock (5 7850s out of 11 are out, 1 7870 out of 15, 1 7950 out of 13, and four out of 20 7970s, all 12 7750s and all 13 7770s are in stock). AMD has plenty of cards in stock and Nvidia has only 670s.
blazorthon
Glorious
- Sep 24, 2010
- 14,022
- 21
- 43,265
[citation][nom]opalarrow[/nom]This is definitely making me consider buying the 570 instead. I hope I can get my hands on one before they go out of stock...[/citation]
The 570 is about half as fast as the 670 and 680 and has only 25% more than half the VRAM. Unless you find one for under $200, it's a far worse purchase than the 670.
The 570 is about half as fast as the 670 and 680 and has only 25% more than half the VRAM. Unless you find one for under $200, it's a far worse purchase than the 670.
blazorthon
Glorious
- Sep 24, 2010
- 14,022
- 21
- 43,265
[citation][nom]Metroidam11[/nom]They make a good point with the whole chess thing. Anyone know how much it actually causes the manufacturer to make these cards? How much profit is Nvidia or EVGA getting from selling a $400 card?[/citation]
They're making a lot of money. Both the PCB and the GPU are small (that PCB is tiny for a high end card, perhaps the smallest in years for such a card) and they only have 8 256MiB RAM chips, so cost of manufacturing is probably minimal. If the rumors of some of the components being cheapies are true, then it only solidifies the profit margins. Cost of manufacturing and shipping these cards is probably a mere fraction of what they are charging for the cards. AMD, on the other hand, is probably making a considerably less money with their slightly larger GPUs, 50% more RAM chips, and larger PCBs. It's probably still cheaper to make the GCN cards than the Fermi cards anyway, but these prices probably hurt AMD much more than they hurt Nvidia.
They're making a lot of money. Both the PCB and the GPU are small (that PCB is tiny for a high end card, perhaps the smallest in years for such a card) and they only have 8 256MiB RAM chips, so cost of manufacturing is probably minimal. If the rumors of some of the components being cheapies are true, then it only solidifies the profit margins. Cost of manufacturing and shipping these cards is probably a mere fraction of what they are charging for the cards. AMD, on the other hand, is probably making a considerably less money with their slightly larger GPUs, 50% more RAM chips, and larger PCBs. It's probably still cheaper to make the GCN cards than the Fermi cards anyway, but these prices probably hurt AMD much more than they hurt Nvidia.
suddenstop
Distinguished
- Jul 22, 2007
- 110
- 0
- 18,690
J_E_D_70
Splendid
- Mar 21, 2012
- 7,291
- 59
- 30,290
Adding those titles will certainly make the AMD line look better (see that techpowerup has those). Even then, the 7950 is no contest. The 7970 wins the majority (10 of 18) benches but the real story is that it only does so by more than 3fps in 4 of 18. The 670:
- uses 34-108 watts less under various loads
- is 6db quieter under load
- costs $50+ less
For me, all of those things have great value. I was within inches of buying a 7970 due to the lack of 680s and now very glad I didn't.
- uses 34-108 watts less under various loads
- is 6db quieter under load
- costs $50+ less
For me, all of those things have great value. I was within inches of buying a 7970 due to the lack of 680s and now very glad I didn't.
catatafish
Distinguished
- Feb 6, 2012
- 448
- 0
- 18,810
No one is having a supply problem. It's their high end card and they won't sell a ton of them. They make those for bragging rights to market their brand name and for R&D. Their bread and butter will be the card that most people buy, which will cost half as much as a 680 or 670. Try not to look at this like two football teams you are rooting for, and who kicks more ass. These are businesses and this is a calculated strategy that many companies use. Nvidia is making just as many as they want to. I'll bet you an SLI 690 rig that when the bread and butter product is launched, there are PLENTY of them.
baracubra
Distinguished
- Jan 24, 2008
- 312
- 0
- 18,790
[citation][nom]cangelini[/nom]If that's something you want to continue seeing moving forward, I'll start putting them back in. Nobody had commented on tessellation performance for months, though, so I was trying to avoid cluttering things up[/citation]
Its not that I specifically want to see tesselation numbers, but you mentioned it in the list of your benchmark suite and I didn't see it throughout the review. I guess if you're gonna take the time to bench it you might as well add in the image/graph with a short comment somewhere. I find it interesting to see the evolution of tesselation scaling with the release of newer generation cards (esp. when it gets worse with the release of the new 600 series)...
Cheers, Bara
Its not that I specifically want to see tesselation numbers, but you mentioned it in the list of your benchmark suite and I didn't see it throughout the review. I guess if you're gonna take the time to bench it you might as well add in the image/graph with a short comment somewhere. I find it interesting to see the evolution of tesselation scaling with the release of newer generation cards (esp. when it gets worse with the release of the new 600 series)...
Cheers, Bara
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